Inmate Executed With Untested Drug

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:57 am

(Dec. 8) -- An Ohio inmate, convicted of killing and dismembering a 22-year-old woman in 1991, was executed Tuesday using a new, untested one-drug method of lethal injection, state officials said.

Kenneth Biros, 51, was pronounced dead at 11:47 a.m. at a prison in Lucasville, Ohio, the state attorney general's office said in a written statement.

Story Link: Ohio Executes Inmate With Untested Single Drug

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:05 am

Seemed to work fine then.

I did not know Ohio had the death penalty.

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:05 am

It's not an untested drug, for goodness sake, it's a standard one-shot procedure for humanely putting down pets in veterinary surgeries, I even wonder whether any drug's ever had more practical use for killing large mammals.

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:07 am

spot;1271255 wrote: It's not an untested drug, for goodness sake, it's a standard one-shot procedure for humanely putting down pets in veterinary surgeries, I even wonder whether any drug's ever had more practical use for killing large mammals.

Sure, well, it is tested now anyway...

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:11 am

Tested yes its tested used on animals daily and it is also a part of the usual 3 doses of different drugs method used as the standard for putting people to death now just in a higer dose when used as the only method.

Seems it worked just fine. Wish the women he killed had the option of not suffering or feeling pain.

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:12 am

Just wondering if criminals were to to death the SAME way they took their victims life if it would have an impact

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:13 am

CARLA;1271259 wrote: Tested yes its tested used on animals daily and it is also a part of the usual 3 doses of different drugs method used as the standard for putting people to death now just in a higer dose when used as a the only method.

Seems it worked just fine. Wish the women he killed had the option of not suffering or feeling pain.

Amen

RIP

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:14 am

Jazzy;1271260 wrote: Just wondering if criminals were to to death the SAME way they took their victims life if it would have an impact

I'm sure it would. What purpose do you think execution has, though? Why do judicial systems execute criminals?

mikeinie · Post by **mikeinie** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:17 am

spot;1271262 wrote: I'm sure it would. What purpose do you think execution has, though? Why do judicial systems execute criminals?

Who cares? One less murdering b@astard in the world. They put animals to sleep don't they? How is this different?

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:20 am

mikeinie;1271263 wrote: Who cares? One less murdering b@astard in the world. They put animals to sleep don't they? How is this different?

I care because I'm interested in the answer and I find it hard to get anyone either to be honest or to make the effort to express an accurate answer.

What reasons do people have for putting animals to sleep, then, if you want to approach it from that point of view. I'm not sure how the two ideas overlap.

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:27 am

spot;1271265 wrote: What reasons do people have for putting animals to sleep, then

The Decision of Euthanizing Your Pet

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:30 am

Too many critters.

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:32 am

spot;1271262 wrote: I'm sure it would. What purpose do you think execution has, though? Why do judicial systems execute criminals?

Do I really need to entertain this question? Isn't it self evident why these "scum" are executed? If someone murdered your loved ones, what would you suggest happens to that murderer?

Elvira · Post by **Elvira** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:38 am

spot;1271262 wrote: I'm sure it would. What purpose do you think execution has, though? Why do judicial systems execute criminals?

Maybe because it's cheaper than keeping them detained for the rest of their life. I'd be really interested in the criteria for execution. Is it that they are absolultely beyond rehabilitation, or are we still expressing our own anger/revenge....

In terms of the untested drug......I wonder what the long term side effects are...:yh_rotfl

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:47 am

The courts handed down a sentence of death that was agreed upon by a jury that were present at the person's trial. In all death penalty cases there are years, and years of appeals before they are put to death.

If they were put to death in the same manner as the person or person's they killed that would be fitting in my opinion "Eye for an Eye". Instead they are given the more humane option of no pain and suffering doesn't seem just to me as all their victims with out question had pain and suffering. :-5

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:50 am

spot;1271262 wrote: I'm sure it would. What purpose do you think execution has, though? Why do judicial systems execute criminals?Judicial systems may very well be an unconsciously erected facade for the purpose of sacrificing individuals for the continued survival of the group. That is if one agrees with he concept of group selection.

That explanation may not satisfactorily meet with your approval, but in terms evolutionary thinking it make perfect sense.

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:59 am

Jazzy;1271266 wrote: [QUOTE=spot;1271265]What reasons do people have for putting animals to sleep, thenThe Decision of Euthanizing Your Pet[/QUOTE]That says to save on vet bills or to limit the suffering of a terminally ill animal, Jazzy. It doesn't go close to hoppy's explanation which covers the other larger category, killing unwanted pets. Unless you're arguing for execution of some criminals as a way of saving costs I'm not sure of the relevance, because they're not terminally ill when they're executed. Hoppy might be closer when he says they're unwanted.

Jazzy;1271271 wrote: Do I really need to entertain this question? Isn't it self evident why these "scum" are executed? If someone murdered your loved ones, what would you suggest happens to that murderer?

If it were self-evident I'd not have asked. I asked because I hoped you might have a reason you could add to the thread.

Am I to take it from this post that your reason is revenge?

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:20 am

CARLA;1271278 wrote: The courts handed down a sentence of death that was agreed upon by a jury that were present at the person's trial. In all death penalty cases there are years, and years of appeals before they are put to death.

If they were put to death in the same manner as the person or person's they killed that would be fitting in my opinion "Eye for an Eye". Instead they are given the more humane option of no pain and suffering doesn't seem just to me as all their victims with out question had pain and suffering. :-5

Very well said Carla and I agree 100% with your comments.

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:26 am

spot;1271281 wrote: That says to save on vet bills or to limit the suffering of a terminally ill animal, Jazzy. It doesn't go close to hoppy's explanation which covers the other larger category, killing unwanted pets. Unless you're arguing for execution of some criminals as a way of saving costs I'm not sure of the relevance, because they're not terminally ill when they're executed. Hoppy might be closer when he says they're unwanted.

If it were self-evident I'd not have asked. I asked because I hoped you might have a reason you could add to the thread.

Am I to take it from this post that your reason is revenge?

You answer my question and I would be happy to answer yours : If someone murdered your loved ones, what would you suggest happens to that murderer?

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:35 am

Jazzy;1271296 wrote: You answer my question and I would be happy to answer yours : If someone murdered your loved ones, what would you suggest happens to that murderer?

Effective rehabilitation and subsequent release.

Your turn.

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:50 am

spot;1271300 wrote: Effective rehabilitation and subsequent release.

You mean your theory would work for these serial killers?

Stories about serial killers who raped and tortured their victims at the Crime Library.

Sorry, as you are entitled to your opinion, but I'm laughing so hard I forgot my question :yh_rotfl

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:58 am

Jazzy;1271302 wrote: You mean your theory would work for these serial killers? Of course it does. Until they're effectively rehabilitated they can't be released. in what way does that fail to deal with the problem?

You said "Isn't it self evident why these 'scum' are executed" and I said no, it's not, what reasons do you have since it's not self-evident at all. Why would you execute them? What reason have you?

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:19 am

spot;1271305 wrote: Of course it does. Until they're effectively rehabilitated they can't be released. in what way does that fail to deal with the problem?

You said "Isn't it self evident why these 'scum' are executed" and I said no, it's not, what reasons do you have since it's not self-evident at all. Why would you execute them? What reason have you?

The way to effectively rehabilitate these serial killers mentioned in my post is to take their life as they did to their victims.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:24 am

spot;1271305 wrote: Of course it does. Until they're effectively rehabilitated they can't be released. in what way does that fail to deal with the problem?

You said "Isn't it self evident why these 'scum' are executed" and I said no, it's not, what reasons do you have since it's not self-evident at all. Why would you execute them? What reason have you?Thats a good point, Spot and i agree, but what if this person requests to die? Should the state honor such requests?

A second question is: what if this person is tormented by an abnormality in the brain and cannot understand the concept of dieing? What should the fate of such a person as this be?

Elvira · Post by **Elvira** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:48 am

Jazzy;1271302 wrote: You mean your theory would work for these serial killers?

Stories about serial killers who raped and tortured their victims at the Crime Library.

Sorry, as you are entitled to your opinion, but I'm laughing so hard I forgot my question :yh_rotfl

Chemical castration might work - eliminate the chemicals that cause the 'urge' and chop off the tool as well! :sneaky:

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:55 am

Jazzy;1271314 wrote: The way to effectively rehabilitate these serial killers mentioned in my post is to take their life as they did to their victims.

That's not the way words work, Jazzy. If you mean there's no possibility of effectively rehabilitation then say so outright. I don't think that's what you're trying to say, though.

You said "Isn't it self evident why these 'scum' are executed" and I said no, it's not, what reasons do you have since it's not self-evident at all. Why would you execute them? What reason have you?

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:20 am

CARLA;1271259 wrote:

Seems it worked just fine. Wish the women he killed had the option of not suffering or feeling pain.

I agree, isn't it a bit hypocritical to try to be ridiculously humane while killing a rabid murderer? If you are going to do it, just get up a firing squad or string a rope. If they don't quite kill the guy, that's what the "coup de grace" is for. Or else outlaw the death penalty altogether.

But let's not go crazy trying to make it a nice, pretty, relaxing event for the criminal.:rolleyes:

I'm like Carla, a little vindictive. If there was absolutely no doubt at all that we had the right man (DNA etc.) I'd be all for letting them experience a little fear, pain, suffering, and suspense before putting them down. Comes around goes around.

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:24 am

Saint_;1271348 wrote: I'm like Carla, a little vindictive. If there was absolutely no doubt at all that we had the right man (DNA etc.) I'd be all for letting them experience a little fear, pain, suffering, and suspense before putting them down. Comes around goes around.

Does that come under the heading of deterrence or of retribution?

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:24 am

spot;1271337 wrote: That's not the way words work, Jazzy. If you mean there's no possibility of effectively rehabilitation then say so outright. I don't think that's what you're trying to say, though.

You said "Isn't it self evident why these 'scum' are executed" and I said no, it's not, what reasons do you have since it's not self-evident at all. Why would you execute them? What reason have you?

I think your needle is stuck and you need to go check it :yh_rotfl

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:24 am

Ahso!;1271315 wrote: Thats a good point, Spot and i agree, but what if this person requests to die? Should the state honor such requests?

Well, for one thing, a lifetime in prison these days (especially with the current decrepit state of US prisons) is actually a harsher sentence than the death penalty. (But of course, in my religion, what comes after is both infinitely worse and everlasting!)

A second question is: what if this person is tormented by an abnormality in the brain and cannot understand the concept of dieing? What should the fate of such a person as this be?

Well, it would be a very strange person that could understand right and wrong, but not understand the concept of dying. Each convicted criminal is checked for sanity before sentencing if the people believe they might be insane or incompetent. So by the definition of being convicted, not insane, their fate should be they same as their victim's.

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:25 am

Jazzy;1271350 wrote: I think your needle is stuck and you need to go check it :yh_rotfl

What's wrong with your actually answering the question instead? It could then progress into a discussion which is where I'm trying to take it.

You said "Isn't it self evident why these 'scum' are executed" and I said no, it's not, what reasons do you have since it's not self-evident at all. Why would you execute them? What reason have you?

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:27 am

spot;1271349 wrote: Does that come under the heading of deterrence or of retribution?

Both. Although, from what I know of vicious criminals, deterrence is overrated. As as for retribution, why not? Revenge, although not pretty, is a basic human emotion and does in fact help the victim's friends and family gain closure.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:40 am

Saint_;1271353 wrote: not? Revenge, although not pretty, is a basic human emotion SHOW ME!

I'll offer the following site and I can't find revenge anywhere no less as a 'basic emotion.' Shootin' from the hip again?

Basic emotions

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:47 am

spot;1271352 wrote: What's wrong with your actually answering the question instead? It could then progress into a discussion which is where I'm trying to take it.

You said "Isn't it self evident why these 'scum' are executed" and I said no, it's not, what reasons do you have since it's not self-evident at all. Why would you execute them? What reason have you?

Capital punishment or the death penalty, is the execution of a person by judicial process as a punishment for an offense. I support Capital punishment so I hope this answers your question. The only thing I disagree with about the way they are put to death is that I feel they should be put to death in the SAME manner they took a human life.

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:52 am

Jazzy;1271358 wrote: Capital punishment or the death penalty, is the execution of a person by judicial process as a punishment for an offense. I support Capital punishment so I hope this answers your question. The only thing I disagree with about the way they are put to death is that I feel they should be put to death in the SAME manner they took a human life.

What I asked was why, that's all. Why would you execute them? What reason have you?

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:01 pm

Saint_;1271353 wrote: Both. Although, from what I know of vicious criminals, deterrence is overrated. As as for retribution, why not? Revenge, although not pretty, is a basic human emotion and does in fact help the victim's friends and family gain closure.

But who are you hurting in the process? Who suffers after the event? Scarcely the chap you've executed, he's gone, he's got no worries, he's out of it, you've released him. is that your intention? To stop the criminal suffering? That scarcely fits with revenge.

Who's achieved anything? Society's lost the moral high ground, the we're better than the person we killed bit. It's lost the opportunity, however rarely it might succeed (and yes, I can point to successes) of reforming the criminal and bringing him back into society as a productive penitent asset to the community.

Pandering to demands for revenge lowers everyone concerned. Anyone wanting revenge would do better to seek healing for their illness.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:10 pm

Choosing retribution for the reason of capital punishment is at least honest. Deterrence doesnt come into the equation at all for a huge majority of murders, surely

Does Capital Punishment Deter Crime? Essays and Articles at eNotes

Some studies compared homicide rates in states with and without capital punishment; others compared homicide rates for states before or after the reintroduction or abolition of capital punishment. Researchers found that murder rates in neighboring states with and without the death penalty were not significantly different. They also found that homicide rates in states did not increase after the abolishment of the death penalty or decrease after the reinstatement of the sanction. More recent comparative studies have come to the same conclusion, supporting Sellinâ€™s contention in 1967 that â€œthe presence of the death penalty in law and practice has no discernible effect as a deterrent to murder.â€

Pretty much squares with how I feel about the validity of Capital Punishment as a deterrence.

I cant for the life of me see any humanity in using the same method to kill a murderer as he/she used on their victim. Where is that taking us as a society ?

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:15 pm

Snowfire;1271372 wrote: Choosing retribution for the reason of capital punishment is at least honest. Deterrence doesnt come into the equation at all for a huge majority of murders, surely

Does Capital Punishment Deter Crime? Essays and Articles at eNotes

Some studies compared homicide rates in states with and without capital punishment; others compared homicide rates for states before or after the reintroduction or abolition of capital punishment. Researchers found that murder rates in neighboring states with and without the death penalty were not significantly different. They also found that homicide rates in states did not increase after the abolishment of the death penalty or decrease after the reinstatement of the sanction. More recent comparative studies have come to the same conclusion, supporting Sellin’s contention in 1967 that “the presence of the death penalty in law and practice has no discernible effect as a deterrent to murder.”

Pretty much squares with how I feel about the validity of Capital Punishment as a deterrence.

I cant for the life of me see any humanity in using the same method to kill a murderer as he/she used on their victim. Where is that taking us as a society ?

So, where has "civilized" society taken us now?

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:27 pm

hoppy;1271376 wrote: So, where has "civilized" society taken us now?

What's that got to do with what I posted. The thread is about State executions and whether they are a valid deterrence. Clearly I think they are not. Too many people gallop along the with deterrence theory and are not being honest enough to admit that its about retribution/revenge

Lethal injection is one thing. Matching the method of killing with that of the murderer's is, I'm suggesting, a step far too far

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:35 pm

Ahso!;1271355 wrote: SHOW ME!

I'll offer the following site and I can't find revenge anywhere no less as a 'basic emotion.' Shootin' from the hip again?

Basic emotions

So? Change emotion to response.:rolleyes: Are you trying to say that people don't feel revenge? Or that revenge has no place in our judicial system?

Actually...what are you trying to say? Spit it out!:wah:

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:36 pm

spot;1271367 wrote:

Pandering to demands for revenge lowers everyone concerned. Anyone wanting revenge would do better to seek healing for their illness.

True enough, but I still contend that revenge makes you feel better.:wah:

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:39 pm

Saint_;1271390 wrote: So? Change emotion to response.:rolleyes: Are you trying to say that people don't feel revenge? Or that revenge has no place in our judicial system?

Actually...what are you trying to say? Spit it out!:wah:Revenge is an immature response to fear.

Is this :wah: a tic?

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:45 pm

Saint_;1271390 wrote: Actually...what are you trying to say? Spit it out!:wah:
Blimey - why does nobody ever give me an invitation like that, that's what I'd like to know.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:46 pm

spot;1271402 wrote: Blimey - why does nobody ever give me an invitation like that, that's what I'd like to know.Actually, what are you trying to say? Spit it out!

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:48 pm

Ahso!;1271404 wrote: Actually, what are you trying to say? Spit it out!I left out the tic!

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:12 pm

Saint_;1271390 wrote: So? Change emotion to response.:rolleyes: Are you trying to say that people don't feel revenge? Or that revenge has no place in our judicial system?

Actually...what are you trying to say? Spit it out!:wah:Theres that tic again! Many people chuckle when they speak out of ignorance.

But isn't the proper use of language important to educators who write?

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:49 pm

Ahso!;1271396 wrote: Revenge is an immature response to fear.

LOL! Oh, absolutely!:D

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:51 pm

Ahso!;1271413 wrote: Theres that tic again! Many people chuckle when they speak out of ignorance.

But isn't the proper use of language important to educators who write?

Now let's get something straight right now: I come here to relax, and I never post while I'm on duty. Also, do not make the mistake of assuming that my online persona has any remote connection to my professional demeanor.

It's just a forum, dude!;)

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:20 pm

Saint_;1271427 wrote: Now let's get something straight right now: I come here to relax, and I never post while I'm on duty. Also, do not make the mistake of assuming that my online persona has any remote connection to my professional demeanor.

It's just a forum, dude!;)Oh Okay! I should have known your posts haven't been of any serious nature really, how could they have been?.......My bad, dude!

BTW-which is the real you?

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:48 pm

Ahso!;1271441 wrote: Oh Okay! I should have known your posts haven't been of any serious nature really, how could they have been?.......My bad, dude!

No problemo!

BTW-which is the real you?

Depends on the thread, the day, and my mood! In serious threads, I try to be serious. In fun threads, I try to be fun. If I think the thread is too serious, I try to be fun, and if the thread is too fun, I try to be serious!;) And sometimes... Heck, I just try to be random!

Life is to be enjoyed, and it's far, far too short to take everything seriously, right?! (You know, I sometimes think that that's the biggest problem all of us "grown ups" have. We are too serious al the time. We never take the time anymore to go out and roll in the grass and tickle each other, although that'd probably be very good for us!) Ever since I died, I've been seeing every day as a bonus. Yesterday, I went outside and swung on the tree swing that I made for my granddaughters.

I had a blast!:D