Police: Suspect in police deaths hurt, maybe dead

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:58 am

SEATTLE â€“ A suspect in the slaying of four police officers who were gunned down in a suburban coffee shop was surrounded by police at a Seattle house early Monday, wounded and possibly dead, police said.

Negotiators were trying to communicate with Maurice Clemmons, 37, using loudspeakers, explosions and even a robot to try to prod him from hiding. At one point, gunshots rang through the neighborhood, about 30 miles from the original crime scene.

"We have determined that in fact he has been shot," said Ed Troyer, a spokesman for the Pierce County Sheriff. "He may be deceased from his gunshot wound."

Clemmons, who has a long criminal history â€” including a long prison sentence commuted by former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee nearly a decade ago â€” became the prime target Sunday in the search for the killer of Lakewood police Sgt. Mark Renninger, 39, and Officers Ronald Owens, 37, Tina Griswold, 40, and Greg Richards, 42.

Authorities had speculated early Sunday that the gunman might have been wounded at the coffee shop by one of his victims. Troyer said interviews with others detained in the investigation confirmed that theory.

Link to story: Police: Suspect in police deaths hurt, maybe dead - Yahoo! News

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:52 am

when they find him, it should be an automatic death sentence.:-5:-5:-5:-5:-5

then, not put on death row.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:22 am

Odie;1267722 wrote: when they find him, it should be an automatic death sentence.:-5:-5:-5:-5:-5

then, not put on death row.

My thinking exactly. When there's no doubt, take no prisoners.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:57 am

I disagree, death the easy way out for this vermin. I'd like to see him caged in maximum security for decades, eating baloney and waiting to die.

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:08 am

I hope he's dead right now and save the tax payers money

Post by **spot** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:24 am

I wonder who they managed to kill instead of the suspect?Police say a suspect in the killings of four officers in Washington State was not in a house which they had laid siege to for several hours.

Officers had surrounded the premises in Seattle and called on Maurice Clemmons to come out.

Shots and explosions were heard at the house, before police confirmed that Mr Clemmons was not there.

BBC News - Seattle police killing suspect 'still at large'

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:27 am

hoppy;1267752 wrote: My thinking exactly. When there's no doubt, take no prisoners.

damn right Hoppy, when police officers are killed, murderers have no rights to anything...not even so much as a day in court.:-5:-5

Post by **spot** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:28 am

You'll be claiming next that the police perform a dangerous job.

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:37 am

Spot, you are absolutely correct according to the updated news on this:

SEATTLE -A heavily armed SWAT team stormed a Seattle home Monday where they thought they had cornered the suspect in the slaying of four police officers at a coffee shop, only to find out that he was not in the house and still on the loose.

The discovery added new urgency to the manhunt for Maurice Clemmons as police canvassed the neighborhood with search dogs and hundreds of officers were deployed around Seattle for any sign of the suspect. Authorities put up a $125,000 reward for information leading to his arrest.

Police had been positioned overnight at a Seattle home where they thought Clemmons was holed up and spent hours trying to communicate with him, using loudspeakers, explosions and even a robot sent into the house. But when the SWAT team went inside, he was nowhere to be found.

Link: Suspect in officer killings eludes law in Seattle

What a scary thought that he's out there somewhere and shame on the Seattle (so called SWAT team) for assuming that he was. While they were focusing there, he was probably laughing

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:18 pm

spot;1267786 wrote: You'll be claiming next that the police perform a dangerous job.

How could you even say this when these officers were gunned down in cold blood? How cold is your blood to even make such a comment?

Post by **spot** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:21 pm

Told you.

Maybe you'd like to estimate how many US police are unlawfully killed on duty each year in the US?

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:31 pm

spot;1267832 wrote: Told you.

Maybe you'd like to estimate how many US police are unlawfully killed on duty each year in the US?

I don't do estimates so if you could provide a link, I would appreciate it. Oh, and while you are at it, I would like to see a link as to how this is not a dangerous job. I guess, in your opinion, this job is no less dangerous than the person who sits behind a computer all day making up programs to protect people from this crap happening. Guess on the computer, you can always hit the escape key or maybe the delete?

Post by **spot** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:52 pm

I was thinking taxi drivers, actually. Or sales reps. Or shop staff. Or, if you want a real extreme comparison, forestry workers.

Post by **spot** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:26 pm

Jazzy;1267834 wrote: I don't do estimates so if you could provide a link, I would appreciate it. Oh, and while you are at it, I would like to see a link as to how this is not a dangerous job.

Figures with sources, for both the number and the comparative rate? If you really want them, here's a comparative rate of job safety in the UK - I can't immediately see an equivalent chart for the US but this gives the 2004 total for US police officers who were unlawfully killed in the line of duty in 2004: the figure that year was 80, plus or minus a couple. Scaffolding or roofing or refuse collecting, to pick a few examples, are more dangerous. There's a danger-mythology spun around policing rather like there is about being in the armed services.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:44 pm

The guy that did the shooting probably only saw the uniform and not the people in the them, which raises the question of why.

There are more 'good' cops than 'bad', but the bad ones really should one day understand that their actions jeopardize the good ones more than themselves. One former prison guard I knew quit after about six months due to the abuse prisoners endured at the hands of guards. Now some may say they deserve all the abuse they get, but thats really not smart because of such events this article illustrates.

Too bad for the families of these murdered officers, my heart goes out to them, however, if there are other cops that caused this anger in this man than those cops deserve an equal amount of the blame.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:08 pm

spot;1267832 wrote: Told you.

Maybe you'd like to estimate how many US police are unlawfully killed on duty each year in the US?

Wouldn't know that but I bet none are lawfully killed while on duty.:wah:

Post by **spot** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:18 pm

hoppy;1267860 wrote: Wouldn't know that but I bet none are lawfully killed while on duty.:wah:

Most of the police who die on duty are, in car crashes. For some strange reason, killing people by smashing your car into theirs is usually legal.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:37 pm

National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund - Facts and Figures - Deaths, Assaults and Injuries

DEATHS, ASSAULTS AND INJURIES - 1998-2008

YEAR DEATHS* ASSAULTS** INJURIES**

1998 169 60,198 18,373

1999 143 55,653 16,456

2000 161 56,582 16,039

2001 240 57,258 16,328

2002 157 58,440 16,626

2003 147 58,278 16,412

2004 164 60,054 16,737

2005 161 59,428 16,072

2006 152 59,907 15,916

2007 182 60,851 15,736

2008 133 N/AÂ¹ N/AÂ¹

AVERAGES

164 deaths per year 58,664 assaults per year 16,695 injuries per year

* Source: National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, Washington, D.C.

** Source: Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Â¹ Available Fall 2009.

Post by **spot** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:50 pm

Thank you Carla. The average over the period you give is slightly higher than the single year I happened to pick out because my news report had a cut-off date at the beginning of December.

As for the "assaults", here in England at least it's rather notorious. If the police want an excuse to arrest someone they punch him and then book him for assaulting a police officer. People have got to the point where they not only believe that, they expect it.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:01 pm

spot;1267877 wrote: Thank you Carla. The average over the period you give is slightly higher than the single year I happened to pick out because my news report had a cut-off date at the beginning of December.

As for the "assaults", here in England at least it's rather notorious. If the police want an excuse to arrest someone they punch him and then book him for assaulting a police officer. People have got to the point where they not only believe that, they expect it.

Not the old "He hit my fist with his face, your Honour" trick again :wah:

The killing of Police Officers having a tea break is not acceptable. Having said that, I must ask what happened to the original reports that the SWAT team had injured, possibly killed, whoever was in the house once they found it was not the suspect they believed was in there?

librtyhead · Post by **librtyhead** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:03 pm

Just because a person does not "Die" does not make that occupation any "less" dangerous. A police officer by just wearing a uniform becomes a "target", by criminals. They are moving away from being afraid of the police and are now trying to target them as a sort of trophy. When was the last time a "painter" was targeted for such aggresion. Or a Firefighter for that matter. Yes they do indeed have a very dangerous job Virginia.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:07 pm

librtyhead;1267930 wrote: Just because a person does not "Die" does not make that occupation any "less" dangerous. A police officer by just wearing a uniform becomes a "target", by criminals. They are moving away from being afraid of the police and are now trying to target them as a sort of trophy. When was the last time a "painter" was targeted for such aggresion. Or a Firefighter for that matter. Yes they do indeed have a very dangerous job Virginia.Neither are painters or firefighters known for lying on the witness stand to put people away, or use over reaching force simply because they have the authority to do so.

Like I said, most police are descent people but that small minority of them that do harm are making it bad for all.

Post by **spot** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:27 am

Did I just see that some Fox News Channel talk show host called Mike Huckabee reprieved this chap from a 95 year sentence?

The Fox News Channel can reprieve people??

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:54 am

Seattle police kill suspect in officer slayings

SEATTLE -The man suspected of gunning down four police officers in a suburban coffee shop was shot and killed by Seattle police early Tuesday, a sheriff's spokesman said.

Maurice Clemmons was shot to death in a working-class south Seattle neighborhood after police tracked him down using possible hiding spots supplied by Pierce County investigators, said Ed Troyer, a spokesman for the county sheriff.

Authorities suspect Clemmons, 37, of killing the four Lakewood officers at a coffee shop Sunday morning in Parkland, a Tacoma suburb about 35 miles south of Seattle.

Police said they aren't sure what prompted Clemmons to shoot the officers as they did paperwork on their laptops. Clemmons was described as increasingly erratic in the past few months and had been arrested earlier this year on charges that he punched a sheriff's deputy in the face.

At the scene, a couple of dozen police officers milled around, shaking hands and patting each other on the back after one of the largest manhunts in the region's history.

Clemmons had stayed on the run for nearly two days with help from a network of friends and family who gave him places to stay, medical aid, rides and money, police said. On Monday, officers detained a sister of Clemmons who they think treated the 37-year-old suspect's gunshot wound.

"We believe she drove him up to Seattle and bandaged him up," Troyer said.

Full Story Link: Seattle police kill suspect in officer slayings

Post by **spot** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:04 am

Jazzy;1267986 wrote: Police said they aren't sure what prompted Clemmons to shoot the officers as they did paperwork on their laptops.If they'd wanted to find out you'd have thought they might have bothered to arrest him. If they want to find out now they'll need a seance.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:08 am

Jazzy;1267986 wrote: Seattle police kill suspect in officer slayings

SEATTLE -The man suspected of gunning down four police officers in a suburban coffee shop was shot and killed by Seattle police early Tuesday, a sheriff's spokesman said.

Maurice Clemmons was shot to death in a working-class south Seattle neighborhood after police tracked him down using possible hiding spots supplied by Pierce County investigators, said Ed Troyer, a spokesman for the county sheriff.

Authorities suspect Clemmons, 37, of killing the four Lakewood officers at a coffee shop Sunday morning in Parkland, a Tacoma suburb about 35 miles south of Seattle.

Police said they aren't sure what prompted Clemmons to shoot the officers as they did paperwork on their laptops. Clemmons was described as increasingly erratic in the past few months and had been arrested earlier this year on charges that he punched a sheriff's deputy in the face.

At the scene, a couple of dozen police officers milled around, shaking hands and patting each other on the back after one of the largest manhunts in the region's history.

Clemmons had stayed on the run for nearly two days with help from a network of friends and family who gave him places to stay, medical aid, rides and money, police said. On Monday, officers detained a sister of Clemmons who they think treated the 37-year-old suspect's gunshot wound.

"We believe she drove him up to Seattle and bandaged him up," Troyer said.

Full Story Link: Seattle police kill suspect in officer slayings

thank you Jazzy!

bet that felt good for the police to shoot him dead.

Post by **spot** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:14 am

Odie;1268001 wrote: bet that felt good for the police to shoot him dead.:)That attitude sums up the general lack of respect for law and order more than anything I could add to the thread.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:20 am

spot;1268006 wrote: That attitude sums up the general lack of respect for law and order more than anything I could add to the thread.

lack of respect for police officers who were killed in cold blood?

-none, nada, zippo.

Post by **spot** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:24 am

Odie;1268007 wrote: lack of respect for police officers who were killed in cold blood? -none, nada, zippo.
You're failing to read accurately, yet again. "Lack of respect for law and order" was what I wrote, nothing about "lack of respect for police officers". Though the traditional gloating US machismo fairly reeks in Lakewood Police Chief Brett Farrar's "we will triumph in this instance".

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:36 am

spot;1268009 wrote: You're failing to read accurately, yet again. "Lack of respect for law and order" was what I wrote, nothing about "lack of respect for police officers". Though the traditional gloating US machismo fairly reeks in Lakewood Police Chief Brett Farrar's "we will triumph in this instance".

- so explain what does 'lack of respect for law and order mean?'

goodness knows spot, no one is smarter than you:yh_rotfl

Post by **spot** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:45 am

Odie;1268012 wrote: okay, so explain what lack of respect for law and order mean?

Considering it of small account whether the law of the land is enforced promptly and effectively. It may turn out, of course, that the police who shot the man dead were in immediate fear for their lives or the lives of bystanders, and acted in accordance with the law by gunning him down, but let's face it that's not the traditional approach of US law enforcement. Applauding the shooter (isn't that the current politically correct term for someone who pulls the trigger?) with "bet that felt good" has a sickening side to it.

eta: I didn't actually cut your second paragraph when quoting, it appeared in your post after I started my reply. You keep on doing that too.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:21 am

Well, the sob is dead as of about 3am this morning. Shot down by cops. Good riddance.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:24 am

He wouldn't stop when the officer told him to stop bang, bang dead on him was one of the Police Officers guns he killed.

Post by **spot** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:44 am

CARLA;1268036 wrote: He wouldn't stop when the officer told him to stop bang, bang dead on him was one of the Police Officers guns he killed.

It will be interesting to read the autopsy then, won't it.

How does "bet that felt good" sit with you, Carla?

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:05 am

Not well as they are officer of the law and take an oath to protect and server. I can understand the comment as this man killed 4 of their brothers in cold blood. I don't believe it did feel good at all just what he was trained to do I'm sure he was shaking like a leaf.

[QUOTE]How does "bet that felt good" sit with you, Carla?[/QUOTE]

Post by **spot** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:17 am

CARLA;1268050 wrote: Not well as they are officer of the law and take an oath to protect and server. I can understand the comment as this man killed 4 of their brothers in cold blood. I don't believe it did feel good at all just what he was trained to do I'm sure he was shaking like a leaf.

That sounds more likely.

On a point of information, one of the four brothers was a sister.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:27 am

Whoops error 3 brothers and 1 sister shot in cold blood by this man. The officer who killed him as he advanced probably saved lives as I'm sure this murder would have kept on killing.

[QUOTE]That sounds more likely.

On a point of information, one of the four brothers was a sister[/QUOTE].

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:26 am

spot;1268018 wrote: Considering it of small account whether the law of the land is enforced promptly and effectively. It may turn out, of course, that the police who shot the man dead were in immediate fear for their lives or the lives of bystanders, and acted in accordance with the law by gunning him down, but let's face it that's not the traditional approach of US law enforcement. Applauding the shooter (isn't that the current politically correct term for someone who pulls the trigger?) with "bet that felt good" has a sickening side to it.

eta: I didn't actually cut your second paragraph when quoting, it appeared in your post after I started my reply. You keep on doing that too.

I replied what I wanted to say.

and who said I had to use a politically correct term?

not the traditional approach of the US law enforcement?

you never read the report did you?

but somehow you always insult me?:yh_rotfl

'The officer saw something moving, got out of his car, saw Clemmons and ordered him to show his hands and stop'.

"He wouldn't stop," Pugel said. "The officer fired several rounds."

The officer would have also felt proud to do it for his brothers and sister who lost their lives, shot and killed in cold blood.

Jazzy · Post by **Jazzy** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:10 am

Odie;1268078 wrote: I replied what I wanted to say.

and who said I had to use a politically correct term?

not the traditional approach of the US law enforcement?

you never read the report did you?

but somehow you always insult me?:yh_rotfl

'The officer saw something moving, got out of his car, saw Clemmons and ordered him to show his hands and stop'.

"He wouldn't stop," Pugel said. "The officer fired several rounds."

The officer would have also felt proud to do it for his brothers and sister who lost their lives, shot and killed in cold blood.

Amen and justice was served.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:13 am

Jazzy;1268104 wrote: Amen and justice was served.

Justice involves courts of law and proving that the "suspect" actually committed the crime before executing him.