The Associated Press: Spanish court considers trying former US officials
By PAUL HAVEN – 22 minutes ago
MADRID, (AP) — A Spanish court has agreed to consider opening a criminal case against six former Bush administration officials, including former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, over allegations they gave legal cover for torture at Guantanamo Bay, a lawyer in the case said Saturday.
Human rights lawyers brought the case before leading anti-terror judge Baltasar Garzon, who agreed to send it on to prosecutors to decide whether it had merit, Gonzalo Boye, one of the lawyers who brought the charges, told The Associated Press.
The ex-Bush officials are Gonzales; former undersecretary of defense for policy Douglas Feith; former Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff David Addington; Justice Department officials John Yoo and Jay S. Bybee; and Pentagon lawyer William Haynes.
"The charges as related to me make no sense," Feith said Saturday. "They criticize me for promoting a controversial position that I never advocated."
Yoo declined to comment. A message left at the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco where Bybee is now a judge was not immediately returned. A message left at Chevron Corp. in San Ramon, Calif., where Haynes reportedly works as an attorney was not immediately returned.
Spanish law allows courts to reach beyond national borders in cases of torture or war crimes under a doctrine of universal justice, though the government has recently said it hopes to limit the scope of the legal process.
Garzon became famous for bringing charges against former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet in 1998, and he and other Spanish judges have agreed to investigate alleged abuses everywhere from Tibet to Argentina's "dirty war," El Salvador and Rwanda.
Still, the country's record in prosecuting such cases has been spotty at best, with only one suspect extradited to Spain so far.
When a similar case was brought against Israeli officials earlier this year, Foreign Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos assured his Israeli counterpart that the process would be quashed.
Even if indictments are eventually handed down against the U.S. officials, it is far from clear whether arrests would ever take place. The officials would have to travel outside the United States and to a country willing to take them into custody before possible extradition to Spain.
The officials are charged with providing a legal cover for interrogation methods like waterboarding against terrorism suspects at Guantanamo, which the Spanish human rights lawyers say amounted to torture.
Yoo, for instance, wrote a series of secret memos that claimed the president had the legal authority to circumvent the Geneva Conventions.
President George W. Bush always denied the U.S. tortured anyone. The U.S. has acknowledged that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the self-described plotter of Sept. 11, and a few other prisoners were waterboarded at secret CIA prisons before being taken to Guantanamo, but the Bush administration insisted that all interrogations were lawful.
Boye said he expected the National Court to take the case forward, and dismissed concerns that it would harm bilateral relations between the two countries.
He said that some of the victims of the alleged torture were Spaniards, strengthening the argument for Spanish jurisdiction.
"When you bring a case like this you can't stop to make political judgments as to how it might affect bilateral relations between countries," he told the AP." It's too important for that."
Boye noted that the case was brought not against interrogators who might have committed crimes but by the lawyers and other high-placed officials who gave cover for their actions.
"Our case is a denunciation of lawyers, by lawyers, because we don't believe our profession should be used to help commit such barbarities," he said.
Another lawyer with detailed knowledge of the case told the AP that Garzon's decision to consider the charges was "a significant first step." The lawyer spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the media.
There was no immediate comment from Garzon or the government.
The judge's decision to send the case against the American officials to prosecutors means it will proceed, at least for now. Prosecutors must now decide whether to recommend a full-blown investigation, though Garzon is not bound by their decision.
The proceedings against the Bush Administration officials could be embarrassing for Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, who has been keen to improve ties with the United States after frosty relations during the Bush Administration.
Zapatero is scheduled to meet President Barack Obama for the first time on April 5 during a summit in Prague.
Associated Press writers Harold Heckle in Madrid and Lisa Leff in San Francisco contributed to this report.
Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
I'm thinking Bush and his buddies just may have to 'stand up' and face the world with what they have been hiding .
Spanish court considers trying former US officials
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scholle-kid
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Spanish court considers trying former US officials
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
Spanish court considers trying former US officials
posted by schoolle kid
I'm thinking Bush and his buddies just may have to 'stand up' and face the world with what they have been hiding .
Probably not. The US does not recognise the jurisdiction of the international courts and while they consider they have the right to arrest people anywhere in the world and bring them back to the states there is no sense that the us feels it should honour extradition treaties with other countries unless it suits them.
I'm thinking Bush and his buddies just may have to 'stand up' and face the world with what they have been hiding .
Probably not. The US does not recognise the jurisdiction of the international courts and while they consider they have the right to arrest people anywhere in the world and bring them back to the states there is no sense that the us feels it should honour extradition treaties with other countries unless it suits them.
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scholle-kid
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Spanish court considers trying former US officials
Still, the country's record in prosecuting such cases has been spotty at best, with only one suspect extradited to Spain so far.
When a similar case was brought against Israeli officials earlier this year, Foreign Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos assured his Israeli counterpart that the process would be quashed.
Even if indictments are eventually handed down against the U.S. officials, it is far from clear whether arrests would ever take place. The officials would have to travel outside the United States and to a country willing to take them into custody before possible extradition to Spain.
Well, from the looks of things , there aren't very many countries that "recognise the jurisdiction of the international courts ". For the last 7 or so years Bush and his buddies have been lying and hiding all matter of info and actions, 'those memos are down right scary' , It is hard to imagine the USA being able to be thought of any worse than we are now because of this very subject, your tone and words you use in your post is a perfect example of what i mean . it is described simply because I am an American and " United we Stand ,Divided we Fall' Bush was our president and he did do a whole bunch of screwing up while hiding it, it all seems to be coming out now , duh go figure huh,
But, even if those six doesn't get anything ,even a slap. It will be out for us to deal with and no matter how scary the ugly is ,it's always easier to deal with ugly when you know what the ugly is.
When a similar case was brought against Israeli officials earlier this year, Foreign Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos assured his Israeli counterpart that the process would be quashed.
Even if indictments are eventually handed down against the U.S. officials, it is far from clear whether arrests would ever take place. The officials would have to travel outside the United States and to a country willing to take them into custody before possible extradition to Spain.
Well, from the looks of things , there aren't very many countries that "recognise the jurisdiction of the international courts ". For the last 7 or so years Bush and his buddies have been lying and hiding all matter of info and actions, 'those memos are down right scary' , It is hard to imagine the USA being able to be thought of any worse than we are now because of this very subject, your tone and words you use in your post is a perfect example of what i mean . it is described simply because I am an American and " United we Stand ,Divided we Fall' Bush was our president and he did do a whole bunch of screwing up while hiding it, it all seems to be coming out now , duh go figure huh,
But, even if those six doesn't get anything ,even a slap. It will be out for us to deal with and no matter how scary the ugly is ,it's always easier to deal with ugly when you know what the ugly is.
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
Spanish court considers trying former US officials
gmc;1165509 wrote: posted by schoolle kid
Probably not. The US does not recognise the jurisdiction of the international courts and while they consider they have the right to arrest people anywhere in the world and bring them back to the states there is no sense that the us feels it should honour extradition treaties with other countries unless it suits them.
Let one of them set foot in European Union territories and they'll at least stand in a magistrate's dock to hear the charges, regardless of how fast Hillary Clinton pressurises the relevant government to whisk them home again. I bet the same goes for any Major or General in the Israeli Defence Forces.
Probably not. The US does not recognise the jurisdiction of the international courts and while they consider they have the right to arrest people anywhere in the world and bring them back to the states there is no sense that the us feels it should honour extradition treaties with other countries unless it suits them.
Let one of them set foot in European Union territories and they'll at least stand in a magistrate's dock to hear the charges, regardless of how fast Hillary Clinton pressurises the relevant government to whisk them home again. I bet the same goes for any Major or General in the Israeli Defence Forces.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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scholle-kid
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Spanish court considers trying former US officials
The article says that they would have to leave here to be detained. I have to say that makes me grin, thinking how that sure will crimp their jet setters party life , I have no idea what their travel habits are but ya gotta figure if this thing does get going and Spain does more than just a throw around a couple of threats , them six anyway will be sorta grounded or have to sneak around like holly wood folks or teenagers..:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:wah:
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
Spanish court considers trying former US officials
scholle-kid;1165734 wrote: The article says that they would have to leave here to be detained. I have to say that makes me grin, thinking how that sure will crimp their jet setters party life , I have no idea what their travel habits are but ya gotta figure if this thing does get going and Spain does more than just a throw around a couple of threats , them six anyway will be sorta grounded or have to sneak around like holly wood folks or teenagers..:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:wah:
Countries in Europe have done it several times before, it's not just taking off, it's real law.
Countries in Europe have done it several times before, it's not just taking off, it's real law.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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scholle-kid
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Spanish court considers trying former US officials
spot;1165848 wrote: Countries in Europe have done it several times before, it's not just taking off, it's real law.
Duh bubba,, what in the world would give you the idea that i didn't think it was a 'real' law ? I didn't figure Spain would make an announcement publicly and say they were looking into the possibility if it wasn't a real law.
Now getting the six Bush buddies to respect that law or take it seriously will be like pulling teeth. If it was my statement about grinning when I think of them politicians being 'grounded' that gave you that idea , I have heard close to a dozen people say first off that it Obama or Hilary wouldn't 'allow' them Bush buddies to be taken into custody ,,, I'm not going to go into the details of the different reasons , I'm just saying that no one thinks that it will come to much because the politicians think they are above being bought up on charges , so if it does turn into not much more than a few threats ( I hope it goes all the way to it's natural conclusion ) whatever that may be, simply because it is the right thing , and America don't need any more 'black eyes' from the crap Bush brought about for everyone concerned.
Duh bubba,, what in the world would give you the idea that i didn't think it was a 'real' law ? I didn't figure Spain would make an announcement publicly and say they were looking into the possibility if it wasn't a real law.
Now getting the six Bush buddies to respect that law or take it seriously will be like pulling teeth. If it was my statement about grinning when I think of them politicians being 'grounded' that gave you that idea , I have heard close to a dozen people say first off that it Obama or Hilary wouldn't 'allow' them Bush buddies to be taken into custody ,,, I'm not going to go into the details of the different reasons , I'm just saying that no one thinks that it will come to much because the politicians think they are above being bought up on charges , so if it does turn into not much more than a few threats ( I hope it goes all the way to it's natural conclusion ) whatever that may be, simply because it is the right thing , and America don't need any more 'black eyes' from the crap Bush brought about for everyone concerned.
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
Spanish court considers trying former US officials
scholle-kid;1165858 wrote: Duh bubba,, what in the world would give you the idea that i didn't think it was a 'real' law ?
What gave me the idea you didn't think it was a 'real' law was you writing "ya gotta figure if this thing does get going and Spain does more than just a throw around a couple of threats ". How else would you interpret your words?
What gave me the idea you didn't think it was a 'real' law was you writing "ya gotta figure if this thing does get going and Spain does more than just a throw around a couple of threats ". How else would you interpret your words?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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scholle-kid
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Spanish court considers trying former US officials
spot;1165860 wrote: What gave me the idea you didn't think it was a 'real' law was you writing "ya gotta figure if this thing does get going and Spain does more than just a throw around a couple of threats ". How else would you interpret your words?
my words were because this is what the article says about spains track record when it comes to this law.
Still, the country's record in prosecuting such cases has been spotty at best, with only one suspect extradited to Spain so far.
my words were because this is what the article says about spains track record when it comes to this law.
Still, the country's record in prosecuting such cases has been spotty at best, with only one suspect extradited to Spain so far.
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.
Spanish court considers trying former US officials
scholle-kid;1165901 wrote: my words were because this is what the article says about spains track record when it comes to this law.
Then why "Duh bubba,, what in the world would give you the idea that i didn't think it was a 'real' law ?" - you can't have your cake and eat it.
The underlying law's the same across all the European Union countries, extradition's an irrelevance since the US would never extradite a US national to face such charges. All it's doing is preventing them from travel on pain of potential arrest if they arrive here.
Then why "Duh bubba,, what in the world would give you the idea that i didn't think it was a 'real' law ?" - you can't have your cake and eat it.
The underlying law's the same across all the European Union countries, extradition's an irrelevance since the US would never extradite a US national to face such charges. All it's doing is preventing them from travel on pain of potential arrest if they arrive here.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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scholle-kid
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Spanish court considers trying former US officials
spot;1166299 wrote: Then why "Duh bubba,, what in the world would give you the idea that i didn't think it was a 'real' law ?" - you can't have your cake and eat it.
The underlying law's the same across all the European Union countries, extradition's an irrelevance since the US would never extradite a US national to face such charges. All it's doing is preventing them from travel on pain of potential arrest if they arrive here.
I have to agree with the rest of the world about Bush and his " speaking with forked tongue" to steal a quote from someone else.
and this is the part that makes me grin preventing them from travel
sort of cramping their style
The underlying law's the same across all the European Union countries, extradition's an irrelevance since the US would never extradite a US national to face such charges. All it's doing is preventing them from travel on pain of potential arrest if they arrive here.
I have to agree with the rest of the world about Bush and his " speaking with forked tongue" to steal a quote from someone else.
and this is the part that makes me grin preventing them from travel
sort of cramping their style
There are no savage and civilised peoples; there are only different cultures.