Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
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Oscar Namechange
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Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
I am very impressed with your knowledge Spot i must say. I wish you had been my science teacher at school, very interesting. It sounds like CERN is not quite sure of the black hole issue. I'm aware it's not happened for four billion years but there is a first time for everything. Just because humans are on the planet does not mean it will happen in our life time. I still find it a little worrying. And there was i worrying about terrorism. Silly me. I suppose we will have to wait 20 yrs to see what CERN comes up with next. Is the place cloaked in secrecy, or are they open to Inspection??
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Oscar Namechange
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Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
JAB;980972 wrote: Not if you believe the global warming folks... The never ending boat trip is a wonderfull idea but a waste of fuel. Far better we pour it over them & light a match.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
oscar;981038 wrote: The never ending boat trip is a wonderfull idea but a waste of fuel. Far better we pour it over them & light a match.
Now there's an idea.:wah:
Now there's an idea.:wah:
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Oscar Namechange
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Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
qsducks;981068 wrote: Now there's an idea.:wah: Great, we could barbi some steaks from the fire:wah: At least America fries their perverts. (Jack Straw, take note)
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
spot;978740 wrote: You'd not call it a policing failure then? You're far too generous.Calling himself Dave Flynn, he rented a £35-a-night room above the Central pub near West Ham's football ground [...] The police and local authorities knew where Wilson was staying but did not have the resources to put him under 24-hour surveillance. Instead, a police liaison officer was instructed to keep tabs on him, most often by telephone.
One female staff member at the Central said the first contact she had with police was a full two months after Wilson arrived. 'A uniformed officer came in and asked whether Dave was behaving himself, whether I had noticed anything strange. I said No. Later I told Dave that the police had turned up and he went mad. I heard him screaming down the phone at his liaison person'.
It seems that it was this 'arm's length' monitoring which allowed Wilson the freedom to attack again.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/arti ... article.do
"did not have the resources to put him under 24-hour surveillance"? Lazy incompetents would be a far better description, as usual. I'm sure they didn't have the resources to put him under 24-hour surveillance but what they actually did was nowhere near what good sense dictated they should have done. There's a huge gap between "a police liaison officer was instructed to keep tabs on him, most often by telephone" and 24-hour surveillance. Somewhere in that gap is the good practice which would have been professional.
The alternative being locking him up for the rest of his life upon his first offense.
Seeing as how people have enough to worry about than to pay people to follow creeps around, I find locking sex offenders and murderers up for the rest of their natural born lives is appropriate...At the risk of whom?...Who's to be upset over incarcerating known killers and rapists?...Them?...They should have "rights" to associate with people from which the persons in question has blatantly made clear they're capable of rape and murder as an adult?...
The difference being instances of stories scarce of oscar;978594 wrote: ...Wilson attacked a 71 year old woman on her doorstep in central London, slashing her across the face & body as he tried to rape her. She had to be hospitalised for five days & was left so badly injured from the attack that she could lose one of her arms.
, and the alternative being ""Wilson ate Salisbury steak with mashed potatoes and gravy with corn on the cob on the side, a salad, and fruit cocktail, only after an hour of billiards, to then settle down to a night of HBO""...
Give me a break!
One female staff member at the Central said the first contact she had with police was a full two months after Wilson arrived. 'A uniformed officer came in and asked whether Dave was behaving himself, whether I had noticed anything strange. I said No. Later I told Dave that the police had turned up and he went mad. I heard him screaming down the phone at his liaison person'.
It seems that it was this 'arm's length' monitoring which allowed Wilson the freedom to attack again.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/arti ... article.do
"did not have the resources to put him under 24-hour surveillance"? Lazy incompetents would be a far better description, as usual. I'm sure they didn't have the resources to put him under 24-hour surveillance but what they actually did was nowhere near what good sense dictated they should have done. There's a huge gap between "a police liaison officer was instructed to keep tabs on him, most often by telephone" and 24-hour surveillance. Somewhere in that gap is the good practice which would have been professional.
The alternative being locking him up for the rest of his life upon his first offense.
Seeing as how people have enough to worry about than to pay people to follow creeps around, I find locking sex offenders and murderers up for the rest of their natural born lives is appropriate...At the risk of whom?...Who's to be upset over incarcerating known killers and rapists?...Them?...They should have "rights" to associate with people from which the persons in question has blatantly made clear they're capable of rape and murder as an adult?...
The difference being instances of stories scarce of oscar;978594 wrote: ...Wilson attacked a 71 year old woman on her doorstep in central London, slashing her across the face & body as he tried to rape her. She had to be hospitalised for five days & was left so badly injured from the attack that she could lose one of her arms.
, and the alternative being ""Wilson ate Salisbury steak with mashed potatoes and gravy with corn on the cob on the side, a salad, and fruit cocktail, only after an hour of billiards, to then settle down to a night of HBO""...
Give me a break!
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
Hoss;982609 wrote: Does Australia not use the death penalty?No civilized country does, it's on a par with stoning women or cutting off hands for theft. No country does that either.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
spot;982622 wrote: No civilized country does, it's on a par with stoning women or cutting off hands for theft. No country does that either.
Hypothetically speaking, if the money involved in detaining criminals subjected it's citizens to a state of malnutrition would the death penalty be justified in your opinion?...
Hypothetically speaking, if the money involved in detaining criminals subjected it's citizens to a state of malnutrition would the death penalty be justified in your opinion?...
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
K.Snyder;982628 wrote: Hypothetically speaking, if the money involved in detaining criminals subjected it's citizens to a state of malnutrition would the death penalty be justified in your opinion?...
Never under any circumstances whatever. Institutionalized starvation as a form of punishment is a core breach of universal human rights and if it were deliberately applied by a country these days one would hope it would result in court intervention within the country or international intervention from outside.
Never under any circumstances whatever. Institutionalized starvation as a form of punishment is a core breach of universal human rights and if it were deliberately applied by a country these days one would hope it would result in court intervention within the country or international intervention from outside.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
spot;982629 wrote: Never under any circumstances whatever. Institutionalized starvation as a form of punishment is a core breach of universal human rights and if it were deliberately applied by a country these days one would hope it would result in court intervention within the country or international intervention from outside.
So you're saying the cost to detain criminals should never primarily be left to the hands of the countries who cannot afford to support them?...
I have a huge problem with ""No civilized country does"" in reference to the death penalty when the detainment of criminals are at the expense of said countries' citizens...
So you're saying the cost to detain criminals should never primarily be left to the hands of the countries who cannot afford to support them?...
I have a huge problem with ""No civilized country does"" in reference to the death penalty when the detainment of criminals are at the expense of said countries' citizens...
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
K.Snyder;982631 wrote: So you're saying the cost to detain criminals should never primarily be left to the hands of the countries who cannot afford to support them?...
I have a huge problem with ""No civilized country does"" in reference to the death penalty when the detainment of criminals are at the expense of said countries' citizens...
No civilized country is so lacking in resources that it can't afford to maintain a minimum standard of care for those it locks up. The country itself decides what acts are criminal and what penalty to impose on those who break the laws they've passed. In England, for example, some acts are now legal which a hundred years ago would have resulted in a jail sentence and some acts result in a jail sentence which a hundred years ago were legal. The definition of what's a criminal act is entirely in the hands of the country. The penalty to be imposed is entirely within the hands of the country. The definition of a country is that it's self-governing and makes its own policies in this and other areas.
Where a country's tied its own hands by signing international treaties then, again, it's voluntary. Every treaty has an exit clause if the country chooses to go its own way.
By all means press your government to revoke all the treaties which stop it from executing every criminal and then execute every criminal, that's an internal affair of the US. It's not what civilized countries do though. Civilized countries don't allow themselves either to use the death penalty or to starve prisoners who can't afford their own food.
I have a huge problem with ""No civilized country does"" in reference to the death penalty when the detainment of criminals are at the expense of said countries' citizens...
No civilized country is so lacking in resources that it can't afford to maintain a minimum standard of care for those it locks up. The country itself decides what acts are criminal and what penalty to impose on those who break the laws they've passed. In England, for example, some acts are now legal which a hundred years ago would have resulted in a jail sentence and some acts result in a jail sentence which a hundred years ago were legal. The definition of what's a criminal act is entirely in the hands of the country. The penalty to be imposed is entirely within the hands of the country. The definition of a country is that it's self-governing and makes its own policies in this and other areas.
Where a country's tied its own hands by signing international treaties then, again, it's voluntary. Every treaty has an exit clause if the country chooses to go its own way.
By all means press your government to revoke all the treaties which stop it from executing every criminal and then execute every criminal, that's an internal affair of the US. It's not what civilized countries do though. Civilized countries don't allow themselves either to use the death penalty or to starve prisoners who can't afford their own food.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
spot;982634 wrote: No civilized country is so lacking in resources that it can't afford to maintain a minimum standard of care for those it locks up. The country itself decides what acts are criminal and what penalty to impose on those who break the laws they've passed. In England, for example, some acts are now legal which a hundred years ago would have resulted in a jail sentence and some acts result in a jail sentence which a hundred years ago were legal. The definition of what's a criminal act is entirely in the hands of the country. The penalty to be imposed is entirely within the hands of the country. The definition of a country is that it's self-governing and makes its own policies in this and other areas.
Where a country's tied its own hands by signing international treaties then, again, it's voluntary. Every treaty has an exit clause if the country chooses to go its own way.
By all means press your government to revoke all the treaties which stop it from executing every criminal and then execute every criminal, that's an internal affair of the US. It's not what civilized countries do though. Civilized countries don't allow themselves either to use the death penalty or to starve prisoners who can't afford their own food.
Well I agree, I do not believe in the death penalty...I was more so looking for agreement upon what I consider to be the only justification for the death penalty...It was merely hypothetical and I believe it establishes precedent...
I can't say that there are countries in the world that would see enough crime relative to the risk of subjecting their people to the potential of murder, or worse, at the same time subject their peoples to the lack of nutrition needed to sustain a healthy living condition in accordance to said countries' jurisprudence...But that's not to say that such instances hadn't happened in the past...What's needed is a bit of perspective and I believe my hypothetical scenario establishes that...
Having said that, what's left is whether or not the death penalty can be justified as a means of retribution...I cannot agree with that at all...In fact, I find the death penalty as a course of punishment, as defined by the sentiment of the people, to be lenient. Obviously primarily without question dependent on the fact that the criminal is deserving of said punishment pragmatic of reason...
Where a country's tied its own hands by signing international treaties then, again, it's voluntary. Every treaty has an exit clause if the country chooses to go its own way.
By all means press your government to revoke all the treaties which stop it from executing every criminal and then execute every criminal, that's an internal affair of the US. It's not what civilized countries do though. Civilized countries don't allow themselves either to use the death penalty or to starve prisoners who can't afford their own food.
Well I agree, I do not believe in the death penalty...I was more so looking for agreement upon what I consider to be the only justification for the death penalty...It was merely hypothetical and I believe it establishes precedent...
I can't say that there are countries in the world that would see enough crime relative to the risk of subjecting their people to the potential of murder, or worse, at the same time subject their peoples to the lack of nutrition needed to sustain a healthy living condition in accordance to said countries' jurisprudence...But that's not to say that such instances hadn't happened in the past...What's needed is a bit of perspective and I believe my hypothetical scenario establishes that...
Having said that, what's left is whether or not the death penalty can be justified as a means of retribution...I cannot agree with that at all...In fact, I find the death penalty as a course of punishment, as defined by the sentiment of the people, to be lenient. Obviously primarily without question dependent on the fact that the criminal is deserving of said punishment pragmatic of reason...
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
What did I write that suggests releasing any criminal while he's a greater danger to the community than the average free citizen?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
Hoss;982709 wrote: I didn't say you did suggest that. I disagree that incarceration of a murderer is justice.
You have to decide what to do with him then. There are too many proven examples of people convicted of murder who've been shown after execution not to have committed the crime for execution to be a moral option. The number of such cases would be far higher, in my opinion, if the US justice system weren't so dead set on refusing to investigate after execution when new evidence comes to light. They have an interest in not looking under stones.
The US isn't the only country to have executed someone for a crime they didn't convict. The British executed an American, Dr Crippen, for a crime that DNA evidence subsequently proved he didn't do. Dr Crippen went to his grave saying he'd not killed his wife and after he'd been executed it was proven beyond doubt that the prosecution evidence was entirely wrong. Convicting on the basis of proof beyond reasonable doubt might be acceptable in jailing someone but it's far too slack and arbitrary when the state proposes to take a life.
You have to decide what to do with him then. There are too many proven examples of people convicted of murder who've been shown after execution not to have committed the crime for execution to be a moral option. The number of such cases would be far higher, in my opinion, if the US justice system weren't so dead set on refusing to investigate after execution when new evidence comes to light. They have an interest in not looking under stones.
The US isn't the only country to have executed someone for a crime they didn't convict. The British executed an American, Dr Crippen, for a crime that DNA evidence subsequently proved he didn't do. Dr Crippen went to his grave saying he'd not killed his wife and after he'd been executed it was proven beyond doubt that the prosecution evidence was entirely wrong. Convicting on the basis of proof beyond reasonable doubt might be acceptable in jailing someone but it's far too slack and arbitrary when the state proposes to take a life.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Oscar Namechange
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Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
Hoss;982609 wrote: Does Australia not use the death penalty? Why was this guy not put to death? This guy & the many others living in Australia don't have the threat of the death penalty due to being part of the British commonwealth & answerable to the Queen of England. In this case, the guy hung on to his British passport although he was born in Britain & left at two yrs old. His other 48 years were spent living in Aus. A tech which meant Aus could ship him back out to Britain. After a few weeks here, he brually slashed a 71 yr old pensioner & tried to rape her. The murder he committed in Aus was so brutal, the detective who put him behind bars stated that he was an "Unconrollable freak, who should never have been released". For one, what where the Australian aurorities doing, letting him rack up 77 offences in 48 years? Inc 6 brutal rapes & a murder? Two-- when he did murder Joan Randall, he stamped on her face breaking every bone in her head & face, YET, after getting him jailed, they released him after only 16 years. Even in this British pathetic nanny state, he would have gone to broadmoore for life & life would have meant life based on his violent history. To be fair to Australia, i am in no doubt that if the situation were reversed & he had lived in Aus for his first two years, our politicians would also be looking at deportation back to Aus. I have to say again though that i don't think it would have reached that far, the British establishment would not have allowed him to go on to 6 rapes following 70 odd other offences. He would have been stopped very early on. As for the death penalty, there has been cases in England of postumus pardons where new evidence has come to light after the wrong man has been executed. It was back then that i was totally against the death penalty but we have come so far with dna & forensic evidence, these cased are unlikely to occur again. That's why it would get my vote now. There would have to be strict guidelines, you could not do it if it were circumstancial evidence for example in the case of Barry George Who was alleged to kill Jill Dando.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
Hoss;983593 wrote: I don't usually follow the news in Australia. But why did you hang an innocent man, then stop the death penalty, why didn't you fix the problem that made an innocent man be convicted of murder.
It's an impossible ambition, it can't be achieved. That's one of the reasons the death penalty's not used in civilized countries. I do hope you're not suggesting that only people guilty of the murder they're charged with are executed in the US, even nowadays.
It's an impossible ambition, it can't be achieved. That's one of the reasons the death penalty's not used in civilized countries. I do hope you're not suggesting that only people guilty of the murder they're charged with are executed in the US, even nowadays.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Accountable
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Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
spot;983602 wrote: It's an impossible ambition, it can't be achieved. That's one of the reasons the death penalty's not used in civilized countries. I do hope you're not suggesting that only people guilty of the murder they're charged with are executed in the US, even nowadays.
Ah, there's the other side of that mouth.
http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... stcount=68
Ah, there's the other side of that mouth.
http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... stcount=68
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
Accountable;983871 wrote: Ah, there's the other side of that mouth.
http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... stcount=68
Are you suggesting there's ever been a period anywhere in the world when every person executed actually committed the crime for which they'd been sentenced? Or is it, rather, true to say that in every period everywhere in the world there have been miscarriages of justice which have punished people? That's a simple matter of fact or fiction.
Either a society decides there's a fundamental difference between jail and execution in that one can be reversed and the other can't, or it decides on pragmatic grounds that some proportion of innocent people will be put beyond the boundary where new evidence can correct the mistake and make restitution.
The question of which behaviour is civilized and which isn't will be decided retrospectively by history. I'm giving my opinion on the verdict. Only uncivilized countries judicially execute people.
One consequence is that law enforcement is more than merely reluctant to uncover injustice after conviction. I'd consider it civilized if the default action of law enforcement after conviction, for every criminal, was to help pick apart the prosecution case whenever new evidence was presented to them rather than brush it under the carpet or actively attempt to suppress it. Their current behaviour rests on a desire to look good rather than to do their job.
What does society want? Efficiency or accuracy? It can't have both.
http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showp ... stcount=68
Are you suggesting there's ever been a period anywhere in the world when every person executed actually committed the crime for which they'd been sentenced? Or is it, rather, true to say that in every period everywhere in the world there have been miscarriages of justice which have punished people? That's a simple matter of fact or fiction.
Either a society decides there's a fundamental difference between jail and execution in that one can be reversed and the other can't, or it decides on pragmatic grounds that some proportion of innocent people will be put beyond the boundary where new evidence can correct the mistake and make restitution.
The question of which behaviour is civilized and which isn't will be decided retrospectively by history. I'm giving my opinion on the verdict. Only uncivilized countries judicially execute people.
One consequence is that law enforcement is more than merely reluctant to uncover injustice after conviction. I'd consider it civilized if the default action of law enforcement after conviction, for every criminal, was to help pick apart the prosecution case whenever new evidence was presented to them rather than brush it under the carpet or actively attempt to suppress it. Their current behaviour rests on a desire to look good rather than to do their job.
What does society want? Efficiency or accuracy? It can't have both.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
Spot - Who is "society"? Is it ordinary people, or academic sociologists, philosophers, or the media, courts of law, politicians etc???? And does it require consensus? Or can "more enlightened" "experts" decide these kind of issues on behalf of the less worthy, unwashed hoi polloi?
And what do you mean by "civilised"?
Is "civilisation" absolute or relative?
And what do you mean by "civilised"?
Is "civilisation" absolute or relative?
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
AussiePam;984036 wrote: Spot - Who is "society"? Is it ordinary people, or academic sociologists, philosophers, or the media, politicians etc???? And does it require consensus? Or can "more enlightened" "experts" decide these kind of issues on behalf of the less worthy, unwashed hoi polloi?
And what do you mean by "civilised"?
Those who are responsible for decision making in any particular country. Is it the electorate who undersigned the legitimacy of the government? Only if they had a selection of candidates with genuine policy differences. Is it the adult population who chooses not to overthrow the government? Only if they stand a realistic chance of success, nobody can blame them for rejecting a suicide option. Is society the legislators or is it the lobbyists who buy them? Is it the media faces and voices, who set the agenda in which elections and policies are won or lost? Somewhere in among all that is society. Personally, I hold the entire adult population responsible. If they can't tune out the faces and voices, refuse the bribes and force the right result despite the electoral hurdles they're abdicating their responsibility.
To civilize a society is "to bring out of a state of barbarism, to instruct in the arts of life, and thus elevate in the scale of humanity; to enlighten, refine, and polish". As Matthew Arnold said, "civilisation is the humanisation of man in society". I quite like that: "humanisation". I quite like "enlighten" too.
And what do you mean by "civilised"?
Those who are responsible for decision making in any particular country. Is it the electorate who undersigned the legitimacy of the government? Only if they had a selection of candidates with genuine policy differences. Is it the adult population who chooses not to overthrow the government? Only if they stand a realistic chance of success, nobody can blame them for rejecting a suicide option. Is society the legislators or is it the lobbyists who buy them? Is it the media faces and voices, who set the agenda in which elections and policies are won or lost? Somewhere in among all that is society. Personally, I hold the entire adult population responsible. If they can't tune out the faces and voices, refuse the bribes and force the right result despite the electoral hurdles they're abdicating their responsibility.
To civilize a society is "to bring out of a state of barbarism, to instruct in the arts of life, and thus elevate in the scale of humanity; to enlighten, refine, and polish". As Matthew Arnold said, "civilisation is the humanisation of man in society". I quite like that: "humanisation". I quite like "enlighten" too.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
So society is an uneasy mishmash of people trying to survive and get on in life with all the clashes and manipulations that involves... and civilisation is a pretty relative concept, a luxury, even.
Getting back to the OP, Australia - a relatively civilised place with occasional patches of enlightenment and great beaches - has legislation about immigration, citizenship, deportation etc... and follows some at least of the usual UN protocols etc.. The crim in this case was a foreign national - the number of years he remained out of his home country, the heinousness of his repeat offences, the likelihood of his reoffending - are not the issue. He committed a crime, served his sentence in accordance with Australian law, then was deported to his birth country, again in accordance with Australian law.
Maybe he deserves to be given automatic honorary Australian citizenship. Our current law doesn't allow for that.
Again - whether ordinary society in the street would like to see him publicly drawn and quartered isn't really relevant. You might find a whole heap of ordinary people who are prepared to be a bit less civilised about dealing with criminals who they think pose a threat to their families than enlightened society experts. These same folk might be prepared to wear an occasional judicial mistake, in order to feel safe.
BUT Simon Wilson has been dealt with under Australian law while that applied to him. There have been other similar cases of deported non-citizens. Maybe one day the law here will be changed, but then maybe it won't.
Getting back to the OP, Australia - a relatively civilised place with occasional patches of enlightenment and great beaches - has legislation about immigration, citizenship, deportation etc... and follows some at least of the usual UN protocols etc.. The crim in this case was a foreign national - the number of years he remained out of his home country, the heinousness of his repeat offences, the likelihood of his reoffending - are not the issue. He committed a crime, served his sentence in accordance with Australian law, then was deported to his birth country, again in accordance with Australian law.
Maybe he deserves to be given automatic honorary Australian citizenship. Our current law doesn't allow for that.
Again - whether ordinary society in the street would like to see him publicly drawn and quartered isn't really relevant. You might find a whole heap of ordinary people who are prepared to be a bit less civilised about dealing with criminals who they think pose a threat to their families than enlightened society experts. These same folk might be prepared to wear an occasional judicial mistake, in order to feel safe.
BUT Simon Wilson has been dealt with under Australian law while that applied to him. There have been other similar cases of deported non-citizens. Maybe one day the law here will be changed, but then maybe it won't.
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
AussiePam;984061 wrote: Simon Wilson has been dealt with under Australian law while that applied to him. There have been other similar cases of deported non-citizens. Maybe one day the law here will be changed, but then maybe it won't.
Why change it? You've gone a fine job. Send the rest over when they finish their sentences. The prats with egg on their face are the Metropolitan Police here, not your lot. Ever since Thatcher politicized the bastards and co-opted them as her Brownshirts to take on the working class I've had as much respect for their ethics and abilities as I'd have for... you know, I can't think of a single thing lower to compare them with.
Why change it? You've gone a fine job. Send the rest over when they finish their sentences. The prats with egg on their face are the Metropolitan Police here, not your lot. Ever since Thatcher politicized the bastards and co-opted them as her Brownshirts to take on the working class I've had as much respect for their ethics and abilities as I'd have for... you know, I can't think of a single thing lower to compare them with.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
Hoss;983585 wrote: Interesting, the fallibility of man strikes again. Instead of being more thorough and increasing the requirement of evidence for a murder conviction we decide it's better to end justice for a murderer altogether.
I wonder sometimes if all common sense has left the earth.:-3
Man is always fallible - we are not God. Justice does not end with the abolition of the death penalty.
I wonder sometimes if all common sense has left the earth.:-3
Man is always fallible - we are not God. Justice does not end with the abolition of the death penalty.
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Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
fuzzy butt;983588 wrote: How did you not know this? The last man hanged in Australia was innocent . The last man & woman hanged in England was not.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
Bryn Mawr;984091 wrote: Man is always fallible - we are not God. Justice does not end with the abolition of the death penalty.
True Byrn, long after the penalty is over, the victem still tries to re-build their life or the family grieve their loss. The guy we were discussing deserves the death penalty. 77 crimes--6 rapes--one muder in Australia. One attempted murder--one attempted rape---England.
True Byrn, long after the penalty is over, the victem still tries to re-build their life or the family grieve their loss. The guy we were discussing deserves the death penalty. 77 crimes--6 rapes--one muder in Australia. One attempted murder--one attempted rape---England.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
Hoss;982701 wrote: So then it's more 'civilized' to allow murderers to murder again? I'll stay in America where at least we have a justice system that executes murderers as a matter of justice.
Here's an instance, Hoss. This is why I have reservations about your country executing those it finds guilty of murder. I'm not the only one who mistrusts the quality or motives of your investigators and court system, or the degree of certainty demanded for the sentence.
Troy Davis is scheduled to be executed on September 23 for the murder of Police Officer Mark MacPhail in Georgia, yet serious doubts of his guilt remain and compelling evidence of his innocence has not been heard in court.
http://takeaction.amnestyusa.org/siteap ... tion=11288
Here's an instance, Hoss. This is why I have reservations about your country executing those it finds guilty of murder. I'm not the only one who mistrusts the quality or motives of your investigators and court system, or the degree of certainty demanded for the sentence.
Troy Davis is scheduled to be executed on September 23 for the murder of Police Officer Mark MacPhail in Georgia, yet serious doubts of his guilt remain and compelling evidence of his innocence has not been heard in court.
http://takeaction.amnestyusa.org/siteap ... tion=11288
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
spot;993129 wrote: Here's an instance, Hoss. This is why I have reservations about your country executing those it finds guilty of murder. I'm not the only one who mistrusts the quality or motives of your investigators and court system, or the degree of certainty demanded for the sentence.
Troy Davis is scheduled to be executed on September 23 for the murder of Police Officer Mark MacPhail in Georgia, yet serious doubts of his guilt remain and compelling evidence of his innocence has not been heard in court.
http://takeaction.amnestyusa.org/siteap ... tion=11288
That's very interesting. Surely in this day & age, the prosecution in any country would not try to supress witnesses or evidence? The police would be forced to re-investigate the whole thing if there was substantial evidence that this had happened in a case?
Troy Davis is scheduled to be executed on September 23 for the murder of Police Officer Mark MacPhail in Georgia, yet serious doubts of his guilt remain and compelling evidence of his innocence has not been heard in court.
http://takeaction.amnestyusa.org/siteap ... tion=11288
That's very interesting. Surely in this day & age, the prosecution in any country would not try to supress witnesses or evidence? The police would be forced to re-investigate the whole thing if there was substantial evidence that this had happened in a case?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
It's a terrible thing to say, but why am i not surprised that Troy Davis is black
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
Seeing as how most people throughout this thread who are against the death penalty are so because of human error I think what's left is to ask a simple question involving a simple yes or no answer...
Obviously anyone can feel inclined to post as to why they've said "no" upon doing so...
Do you feel Simon Wilson deserves the death penalty?...Yes or no?...
...
I personally do not believe in the death penalty as a form of retribution so I would say no...
I would have personally locked him up for the rest of his natural born life upon his first offense in the crime of rape or attempted murder or murder...
He would have no expectation to be released from prison and upon extensive oversight would take a number of what I would approve of the competence of 12 psychiatric professionals with strict emphasis on the criminal's potential to commit another crime...
The professionals in charge of anyone's release would be held to strict guidelines at the same time extreme consequences of releasing a criminal who re-offends by virtue of losing their right to practice their previous profession at the same time being subject to jail time with a substantial amount of added incentive upon a criminal not re-offending upon his/her release...
Obviously anyone can feel inclined to post as to why they've said "no" upon doing so...
Do you feel Simon Wilson deserves the death penalty?...Yes or no?...
...
I personally do not believe in the death penalty as a form of retribution so I would say no...
I would have personally locked him up for the rest of his natural born life upon his first offense in the crime of rape or attempted murder or murder...
He would have no expectation to be released from prison and upon extensive oversight would take a number of what I would approve of the competence of 12 psychiatric professionals with strict emphasis on the criminal's potential to commit another crime...
The professionals in charge of anyone's release would be held to strict guidelines at the same time extreme consequences of releasing a criminal who re-offends by virtue of losing their right to practice their previous profession at the same time being subject to jail time with a substantial amount of added incentive upon a criminal not re-offending upon his/her release...
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Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
Hoss;993542 wrote: And how do you assure and reassure a rape victim their attacker will never escape let alone be released to come after them again?
You can throw all the professionals and strict criteria you want out there, if I'm a victim and there is the potential for escape or release then I am never safe again and will never be able to live in peace again.
Being that criminals do attack again and repeat heinous crimes and do worse on release or escape even after professionals and strict criteria I just don’t trust their judgments.
I want them dead, executed, finished so that I am assured that attacker won’t ever, can't ever do it again. I've said it before on here but what i just don't understand is how a country can allow anyone to rack up 77 offences.
6 rapes included before violently stamping on an old ladies face, killing her. There must have been signs early on. Even when he was convicted of murder, they let him out after only 16 tears. They must have known that he was a danger, so on a tech, they put him on a plane & said, there you go England, have him back when he had lived & worked as an Australian for 48 years of his 50 yr life. I call that a cop out by the authorities & Simon Wilson is not the only one who has enjoyed years of crime in Australia before they become too hot to handle.
1) Put the idiots who allowed him to taint 77 peoples familys lives in a room with the victem & family.
2)The death Penalty? I say yes. However, are people like him ill & can not control urges?
3) We have a guy here called "Ian Huntly". He murdered two 10 yr old little girls. He has tried to commit suicide & is on 24 hr sucide watch doing life. He wants out. Do we give him a choice? Does he deserve one.? No, make him live & let him rot every day of his life in solitary.
4) Abu Hamza. In jail awaiting extradition to the U.S for connections to 9/11. He uses his "human rights" to appeal time & time again to our courts. If he & other terrorists get the death penalty, it's what some of them long for. To be a martyr & worshipped in the name of Allah.
5) I know a woman who was attacked. He was never brought to justice due to a **** up with British Police. He went on to kill himself & two friends while driving a car on cocaine at speed. To myself, that would be gods will, the scum removed from this earth. You would think she has moved on. She can't even though he's dead. She is still tormented by him.
I don't have all the answers to these, but i know that if a member of my family were a victem to one of these people, Yes, I'd say execute them like a shot. The authorities have to be water tight on convictions & laws need to be changed in most countrys to make sure they are guilty beyond doubt. I agree with Hoss, if you are a victem, they can get out, they can come back. Simon Wilson did & nearly killed another old lady in broad daylight. They should have done a "Ned Kelly" on him in Australia when he murdered Joan Randell. It's the authorities that i blame here.
You can throw all the professionals and strict criteria you want out there, if I'm a victim and there is the potential for escape or release then I am never safe again and will never be able to live in peace again.
Being that criminals do attack again and repeat heinous crimes and do worse on release or escape even after professionals and strict criteria I just don’t trust their judgments.
I want them dead, executed, finished so that I am assured that attacker won’t ever, can't ever do it again. I've said it before on here but what i just don't understand is how a country can allow anyone to rack up 77 offences.
6 rapes included before violently stamping on an old ladies face, killing her. There must have been signs early on. Even when he was convicted of murder, they let him out after only 16 tears. They must have known that he was a danger, so on a tech, they put him on a plane & said, there you go England, have him back when he had lived & worked as an Australian for 48 years of his 50 yr life. I call that a cop out by the authorities & Simon Wilson is not the only one who has enjoyed years of crime in Australia before they become too hot to handle.
1) Put the idiots who allowed him to taint 77 peoples familys lives in a room with the victem & family.
2)The death Penalty? I say yes. However, are people like him ill & can not control urges?
3) We have a guy here called "Ian Huntly". He murdered two 10 yr old little girls. He has tried to commit suicide & is on 24 hr sucide watch doing life. He wants out. Do we give him a choice? Does he deserve one.? No, make him live & let him rot every day of his life in solitary.
4) Abu Hamza. In jail awaiting extradition to the U.S for connections to 9/11. He uses his "human rights" to appeal time & time again to our courts. If he & other terrorists get the death penalty, it's what some of them long for. To be a martyr & worshipped in the name of Allah.
5) I know a woman who was attacked. He was never brought to justice due to a **** up with British Police. He went on to kill himself & two friends while driving a car on cocaine at speed. To myself, that would be gods will, the scum removed from this earth. You would think she has moved on. She can't even though he's dead. She is still tormented by him.
I don't have all the answers to these, but i know that if a member of my family were a victem to one of these people, Yes, I'd say execute them like a shot. The authorities have to be water tight on convictions & laws need to be changed in most countrys to make sure they are guilty beyond doubt. I agree with Hoss, if you are a victem, they can get out, they can come back. Simon Wilson did & nearly killed another old lady in broad daylight. They should have done a "Ned Kelly" on him in Australia when he murdered Joan Randell. It's the authorities that i blame here.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
Hoss;993775 wrote: T
The government is supposed to keep us safe from criminals it’s their main job
Including big business, corporate and white collar criminality...
The government is supposed to keep us safe from criminals it’s their main job
Including big business, corporate and white collar criminality...
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
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Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
Hoss;993775 wrote: The blame should rest solidly on the shoulders of the law and the authorities anytime a criminal repeats on offense, especially violent offenses.
The government is supposed to keep us safe from criminals it’s their main job, lately it seems they are very bad at it. I think what gets in the way is the sympathy the criminal gets from groups who oppose the death penalty out of principle. Those groups don't believe in taking responsibility for your actions. They want to shift the blame to society and take it off the criminal. I get tired of hearing about a violent criminal being raised in poverty, by a single parent, in the inner city rife with gangs and drugs. He still did the crime and must still answer for it regardless. Bang on the nail Hoss. Here, it seems that the violent criminal is protected & his rights put before victems & potential victems. Let me share this with you. I was asked to attend a meeting with our local police, councillors etc, about gang crime & anti social behaviour in our area. In the forum were many victems of this gangs crime. A senior officer got up & proudly announced that they had caught a prolific vandal & under questioning, he had admitted to another 30 offences. He then told us that instead of this low life being hauled before the courts so a judge could at least award victems compensation, the police had "Punished" him by having spend a day painting a wall at the school. When i raised the question "What about his 30 victems", The officer said, "Phone HQ, get a log number & you can get it back on your insurance". People then explained about the excess on their insurence leaving them out of pocket & this officer told us all, "What's the point of making them pay compo or a fine if they are 16 yrs old, come from a hard background, no job & parents on benifit? He said, the means are not there to viably collect".
Unbelievable eh??
The government is supposed to keep us safe from criminals it’s their main job, lately it seems they are very bad at it. I think what gets in the way is the sympathy the criminal gets from groups who oppose the death penalty out of principle. Those groups don't believe in taking responsibility for your actions. They want to shift the blame to society and take it off the criminal. I get tired of hearing about a violent criminal being raised in poverty, by a single parent, in the inner city rife with gangs and drugs. He still did the crime and must still answer for it regardless. Bang on the nail Hoss. Here, it seems that the violent criminal is protected & his rights put before victems & potential victems. Let me share this with you. I was asked to attend a meeting with our local police, councillors etc, about gang crime & anti social behaviour in our area. In the forum were many victems of this gangs crime. A senior officer got up & proudly announced that they had caught a prolific vandal & under questioning, he had admitted to another 30 offences. He then told us that instead of this low life being hauled before the courts so a judge could at least award victems compensation, the police had "Punished" him by having spend a day painting a wall at the school. When i raised the question "What about his 30 victems", The officer said, "Phone HQ, get a log number & you can get it back on your insurance". People then explained about the excess on their insurence leaving them out of pocket & this officer told us all, "What's the point of making them pay compo or a fine if they are 16 yrs old, come from a hard background, no job & parents on benifit? He said, the means are not there to viably collect".
Unbelievable eh??
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
Hoss;994789 wrote: Indentured Servitude is in order in those cases! Make them work it off by doing labor around the personal property of the victim! The meeting with the police went on further with the officer saying that when they had the crim painting the school for the day, he had to have 3 suppervisors as he was painting near electrics. He said, if he'd got hurt, he or the family could sue the school or the police. The officer went on to say, as you did, that future young yobs who had no income to pay compo to their victems or fines to the courts, could repair the damage to the victems property. Well, there was nearly an uprising in this meeting & i admit i told the officer he was stupid. I said to him "O.k, let me get this right, he breaks my windows. You send him round to repair them. He slips, cuts himself or it's raining & he slips on my drive & breaks his leg---then he sue's me--right?" Officer couldn't answer me. In the end the officer asked us all for suggesstions & everyone of us voted for "20 weeks compulsary national service, preferably on the Taliban frontline". That got a cheer.
What a ridiculous message our country is sending out to young yobs. 30 crimes, 30 victems & i'll get a day's painting at the worst. I can add that i am involved with local council & we break a gut spending public money for youth centre's for these kids. We just opened a new boxing centre where they can come & be proffessionally trained by ex vet boxers. There's a waiting list as it's so successfull, but none of the yobs are interested. The good kids are in there learning how to defend themselves against the yobs. What do we do next???:-3
What a ridiculous message our country is sending out to young yobs. 30 crimes, 30 victems & i'll get a day's painting at the worst. I can add that i am involved with local council & we break a gut spending public money for youth centre's for these kids. We just opened a new boxing centre where they can come & be proffessionally trained by ex vet boxers. There's a waiting list as it's so successfull, but none of the yobs are interested. The good kids are in there learning how to defend themselves against the yobs. What do we do next???:-3
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
Hoss;993544 wrote: I think it does end, if a murderer is allowed to live there is no justice on earth.
Where is the justice for the inumerable cases where the executed party was proved, after the event, to have been innocent?
Where is the justice for the inumerable cases where the executed party was proved, after the event, to have been innocent?
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Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
Bryn Mawr;995577 wrote: Where is the justice for the inumerable cases where the executed party was proved, after the event, to have been innocent?
I agree with that part of it Bryn & as i said in my earlier posts, evidence has to be water tight & some countries even need to change laws to ensure this as you will always have bent police officers as one example. The system will never be foolproof, but in cases such as Simon Wilson, Peter Sutcliffe, Ian Brady etc etc, they have such over-whelming evidence there is virtually no danger of an injustice being carried out. If Simon Wilson was executed in Australia when he killed Joan Randall, he could not have destroyed another old ladies life. What about her quality of life now?
At present, we do have a judicial system where mistakes are made deliberately by the prosecution. Defence witnesses are not interviewed, evidence is kept from the defence team & interview under caution is not correctly put into transcript for court hearings. These things must be 100% true.
If this was a hundred years ago, i would be against the death penalty but in this day & age with advances in DNA, fibra samples, soil samples, seed pods, all manner of ways of adding to the weight of the guilt, the chances of getting the wrong man are minimal, unless you have bent officers holding imformation back.
I would say any violent premeditated rape or murder with previous deserves the death penalty.
In such a case say, a man with no previous suffers years of bullying, harrassment or an unfaithfull wife, just snaps one day & in an unpremeditated act, kills some-one, then i think he deserves life but not the death penalty.
To avoid a mis-carraige of justice, the police, CPS & prosecution must be monitered. If a death sentance is about to be handed down it would be a good thing to have a governing body re-investigate the whole case un-biasedly before the person is executed.
Mis-carraiges of justice only occur due to devious shanannagons by the police or prosecution or vital evidence being willfully held back, those two go together. A governing body watching over any murder investigation should eliminate such injustices.
I agree with that part of it Bryn & as i said in my earlier posts, evidence has to be water tight & some countries even need to change laws to ensure this as you will always have bent police officers as one example. The system will never be foolproof, but in cases such as Simon Wilson, Peter Sutcliffe, Ian Brady etc etc, they have such over-whelming evidence there is virtually no danger of an injustice being carried out. If Simon Wilson was executed in Australia when he killed Joan Randall, he could not have destroyed another old ladies life. What about her quality of life now?
At present, we do have a judicial system where mistakes are made deliberately by the prosecution. Defence witnesses are not interviewed, evidence is kept from the defence team & interview under caution is not correctly put into transcript for court hearings. These things must be 100% true.
If this was a hundred years ago, i would be against the death penalty but in this day & age with advances in DNA, fibra samples, soil samples, seed pods, all manner of ways of adding to the weight of the guilt, the chances of getting the wrong man are minimal, unless you have bent officers holding imformation back.
I would say any violent premeditated rape or murder with previous deserves the death penalty.
In such a case say, a man with no previous suffers years of bullying, harrassment or an unfaithfull wife, just snaps one day & in an unpremeditated act, kills some-one, then i think he deserves life but not the death penalty.
To avoid a mis-carraige of justice, the police, CPS & prosecution must be monitered. If a death sentance is about to be handed down it would be a good thing to have a governing body re-investigate the whole case un-biasedly before the person is executed.
Mis-carraiges of justice only occur due to devious shanannagons by the police or prosecution or vital evidence being willfully held back, those two go together. A governing body watching over any murder investigation should eliminate such injustices.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Australia Sent This Murdering Rapist Back To Britain. 3 Months Later, He Struck Again
qsducks;979015 wrote: Send them on a never ending boat tour through the icebergs. No people, polar bear, etc. and they can all freeze their a$$'s off forever.
I thought George Bush had already turned the North Pole into a tropical paradise.......ie.........no polar bears and a lot of orientals up there in the casinos with their cameras?
Maybe I am wrong:-3
I thought George Bush had already turned the North Pole into a tropical paradise.......ie.........no polar bears and a lot of orientals up there in the casinos with their cameras?
Maybe I am wrong:-3
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."