Couple jailed for son's truancy

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:21 am

An estranged couple have been given jail sentences for repeatedly failing to ensure their son went to school.

The 15-year-old, who can't be named for legal reasons, has one of the worst attendance records Flintshire Local Education Authority has ever seen.

The boy's 41-year-old father was jailed for 20 weeks, his 38-year-old mother has been given a sentence of two months.

It is the first such case in the county which has resulted in jail sentences.

The council says they also believe the couple are the first in north Wales to be jailed for the offence.

The couple, who live apart, had three previous convictions for failing to ensure regular school attendance.

Damien Gaskell, prosecuting for Flintshire local education authority, said it was "a systematic failure to ensure that the child received an education over a number of years."

He told magistrates that it was certainly not a victimless crime.

"The child is suffering because of a lack of education which is bound to affect his future work prospects," he said.

Two of those were the aggravated form of the offence which required knowledge that the child was not attending school, and was therefore subject to a potential prison sentence.

The boy previously had one of the worst attendance records ever dealt with in the local authority - just 17 per cent.

It had improved, but was only 30 per cent, Flintshire magistrates' court at Mold was told.

Magistrates told the parents they had abdicated their responsibility to ensure the boy received a proper education.

The court was told that while they were in custody arrangements had been made for the boy to live with a relative who had children of her own.

I live in Flintshire and so this is local news here. Im not sure jailing parents is enough deterant to Make a child return to full time education.

Whats your views?

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:28 am

I know they hold that threat over some parents here, have sent some to court, but never jailed anyone yet.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:32 am

They are not the first in the UK to be jailed Chonsi

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:34 am

Has it helped overall with truancy?

We had a student last year with about a 40% attendance rate, I knew that one was going to court. But they don't jail them here, you wonder if that would help at all.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:54 am

I cant see how locking parents up is good for a child. Most of these children obviously dont like school so why not centre on that and different ways of approaching it instead of Jail.

I do remember a mum being jailed due to her two girls truancy and they said they would still truant once she was released..Nice eh!

I will try and google it..

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:57 am

I think it might help in my district. They hand out fines here, but the parents take the ticket and don't pay. Can't get blood from a turnip, y'know.

Jailing might do more harm than good. What about families with four good children and one truant? Seems like the other kids would get punished more than the child. I truly believe parents should be held accountable for their kids' behavior, but it should be handled on a case-by-case basis. No blanket rule will work here.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:03 am

Accountable;939283 wrote: I think it might help in my district. They hand out fines here, but the parents take the ticket and don't pay. Can't get blood from a turnip, y'know.

Jailing might do more harm than good. What about families with four good children and one truant? Seems like the other kids would get punished more than the child. I truly believe parents should be held accountable for their kids' behavior, but it should be handled on a case-by-case basis. No blanket rule will work here.

All children have a right to have an education, and parents have a responsibility to ensure that a child attends school or gets them it by other means so they receive it. I think if a child is truanting so much, you need to find out why and address it instead of just making them attend. Maybe theirs no problem except the kid plain dont like school or learning. Then more attention needs to applied on what they do like and what they would like to do for a job and enroll them in some kind of training programme, anything but leave them uneducated.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:16 am

Chezzie;939291 wrote: All children have a right to have an education, and parents have a responsibility to ensure that a child attends school or gets them it by other means so they receive it. I think if a child is truanting so much, you need to find out why and address it instead of just making them attend. Maybe theirs no problem except the kid plain dont like school or learning. Then more attention needs to applied on what they do like and what they would like to do for a job and enroll them in some kind of training programme, anything but leave them uneducated.
We have such a program. Works great for some, not so well for others.

Some flourish under the strictest conditions. It seems that, for those, options are detrimental. They were never taught the discipline to make good decisions. They shine when told exactly what, when, how, etc, then held accountable for their actions.

It's just not sendible to have one standard, one curriculum for all children. Others argue that it's not feasible to do it another way. It's not feasible to make sense. :-2

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:17 am

Social services usually becomes involved in those cases, and they work with them. But it is very difficult when parental control has failed, and the kid stays home all the time. How many times have you sat in a meeting like that, AC, where the parent tells you they have no control over the child? It frustrates me to no end, like make your kid go to school, take away the gadgets and bribes, and walk them to school if you have to. My four all went, and never tried to ditch or pretend to be sick to stay home on a daily basis. We actually had one child classified with a "schoolaphobia" that they were afraid of school. I never understood that, he did just fine when he was in class.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:30 am

Accountable;939301 wrote: We have such a program. Works great for some, not so well for others.

Some flourish under the strictest conditions. It seems that, for those, options are detrimental. They were never taught the discipline to make good decisions. They shine when told exactly what, when, how, etc, then held accountable for their actions.

It's just not sendible to have one standard, one curriculum for all children. Others argue that it's not feasible to do it another way. It's not feasible to make sense. :-2

Thats interesting, thanks Acc, I wasnt aware it was being implemented, you have seen it first hand and have a better view on its success. I agree with you, we cant categorise and so the answer is how to get them to school and keep them there??

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:53 am

fuzzy butt;939363 wrote: questions questions questions

was a social worker ever appointed to this family ?

the boy is fifteen? He doesn't have to go to school . Or is it different there?

why has it come down to jail? I don't understand that. Is it 17% for his entire school learning or 17% for the last year?

Has the boy learning difficulties?

and what were the teachers doing about it ? the welfare officers at school ? where were they? where's the principle of the school?

Do I have to find all them answers:-3

Can I lie and look clever:sneaky:

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:22 am

fuzzy butt;939397 wrote: Yes !! yes you can.............................. it works for me . :wah::wah:

Nah ...what i'm wondering is ........did the judge take this boy into his chambers and address him? did he see some spark of intelligence that has been wasted ?

Are there trade schools for this age group in Wales? I know boys suffered greatly when they took them away here. We are only just bringing trade schools back .........But of course it's all too hard for the government:rolleyes::-5

There is a good chance the boy didnt even attend court.

I have no other info right now on who the boy lived with, just that their had been previous warnings.

As far as I am aware we dont have trade schools here but I may be wrong.

Here are some other instances of parents being jailed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2955181.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2955181.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2947893.stm

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:24 am

99th Monkey;939403 wrote: I just wanted to know why the father got 20 weeks and the mother only got 8

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/7537987.stm

Thats the story, unsure why he got a longer sentence, maybe th boy lived with him and he had had more warnings..:-3

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:25 am

In this state I live in they send the parents to jail and fine them. I really think if the kid is staying home, ok, the parents should get in trouble, but if the kid is leaving the house and "pretending" to go school, then no, they should not get in trouble.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:26 am

Yes, it is hard to catch them when they ditch. We are always chasing the high schoolers back across the street.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:38 am

Their are some parents who cant even be bothered to get up and make the kids their breakfast before school or even get out of bed and make sure their up and have everything they need.

Their are parents who let their kids stay home at a drop of a hat or because its convenient for them.

Sends the wrong signals to their kids, why is it ok one day and not the next.

Sending the parents to jail isnt getting to the root of the problem of why they dont want to go in the first place. Not everyone is equipped to home school. I feel more guideance and help is needed more than jail sentences.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:14 am

Ah fuzzy, sometimes the teacher's do lose confiscated things-but we are told specifically we can be liable too. I never take away a cell phone and keep it myself, it would go to the office to be locked up in the safe until a parent claimed it. (after they have been warned once or twice not to have it out, and to put it in their locker for safe keeping, if they won't do that then we take them away, they can't be playing games and texting during class)

Now kids leave stuff all the time in the classroom. I let it sit for a day, then take it up to the lost and found if they haven't returned for it. It can disappear when the janitor cleans, they don't know what's junk and all.

Post by **spot** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:26 am

I think if there's a law then the police should actively seek out everyone who breaks it and invariably and without exception present them before a court. That's the function of a law and the function of the police. The function of the court is to decide whether the accusation's accurate and what penalty to impose.

If the law's the wrong method to deal with non-attendance then the law should be revoked entirely.

If it's needed, that means yes there should be prosecutions and yes there should be penalties. Actually having a law but only enforcing it when you feel inclined is a symptom of police corruption and that's what's happening at the moment.

What the penalty ought to be is a final question to answer after all that's straightened out.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:38 am

chonsigirl;939303 wrote: Social services usually becomes involved in those cases, and they work with them. But it is very difficult when parental control has failed, and the kid stays home all the time. How many times have you sat in a meeting like that, AC, where the parent tells you they have no control over the child? It frustrates me to no end, like make your kid go to school, take away the gadgets and bribes, and walk them to school if you have to. My four all went, and never tried to ditch or pretend to be sick to stay home on a daily basis. We actually had one child classified with a "schoolaphobia" that they were afraid of school. I never understood that, he did just fine when he was in class.
I get frustrated with it, too. I've seen it quite a bit in my short time. Some of the parents have no hope for themselves or for their kid's future, so they don't see the point in trying. They've given up. I see a large part of my future teaching the parents the mechanics (if not the spirit) of leading, modeling, and setting/holding standards.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:00 am

I say lock the kid up, if you are that serious about it, not the parent. They can't skip school in a controlled environment.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:09 am

flopstock;939489 wrote: I say lock the kid up, if you are that serious about it, not the parent. They can't skip school in a controlled environment.
No consequence for irresponsible parents?

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:12 am

my girls are now in their 30's so things have changed a bit by now.

anyway my middle girl got into some trouble at school and i went to see the teacher to sort it out.

while i was there, i thought i would check on the progress of the other two.

it came to light that my eldest hadnt been to school for SIX WEEKS !!

i never recieved one phone call, one letter one enquiry as to her whereabouts for the whole six weeks.

she left every morning at 8am to catch the school bus and return at 4-30pm, complete with homework.

she spent her days at her friends house and im afraid the freinds parents got a rocket from me for not saying anything to me either !!

i wondered about their mentality too, having someone elses child sitting in their house for 8hrs a day !!!

i just wonder too, under those circumstances, who would have been held responsable for her absence these days.