Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

K.Snyder
Posts: 10253
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:05 pm

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by K.Snyder »

spot;878303 wrote: Then why this need to ignore all the local murders, the murders on the same continent? Why do worldwide Western news agencies shriek their news about an honour killing in Germany, and why does it end up on ForumGarden, if all murders are equally heinous?

What I've brought here is a pattern of killing which is very familiar to the West, which people perhaps think is due to understandable motives. Greed, perhaps, is something to applaud, and if it goes too far and tips over into murder then it's over-enthusiastic and ought to be condemned when enquired into but it's not as vile, not as loathsome, not as culturally disgusting as an honour killing. Is that it? If that's not it, why are we discussing a murder in Germany in this thread?


What is "it" is news agencies being run by the same BS corporate virtue we've known to evolve for the last 150 years...

Has nothing to do with individual motive in posting the story...
User avatar
spot
Posts: 41336
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by spot »

K.Snyder;878462 wrote: What is "it" is news agencies being run by the same BS corporate virtue we've known to evolve for the last 150 years...Come on, be reasonable. How long has it been that a murder in Germany which involved no US citizens would have taken precedence in a US news outlet over a local story of brothers conspiring to murder one brother's wife in order to retain their complete wealth in what they saw as their family rather than allow a court to divide it between the separating marriage partners?

Since it became necessary to the US administration to dehumanize Muslims in the eyes of its Homeland electorate?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
K.Snyder
Posts: 10253
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:05 pm

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by K.Snyder »

spot;878475 wrote: Come on, be reasonable. How long has it been that a murder in Germany which involved no US citizens would have taken precedence in a US news outlet over a local story of brothers conspiring to murder one brother's wife in order to retain their complete wealth in what they saw as their family rather than allow a court to divide it between the separating marriage partners?

Since it became necessary to the US administration to dehumanize Muslims in the eyes of its Homeland electorate?


Spot, my government isn't perfect...Nor is anyone else's, and if anyone said otherwise they're a blatant fool...

Just know that I don't agree with everything my government says or does nor should anyone else...I have no control over the media anymore than Bush does...

From hurricane Katrina to the War in Iraq I agree Bush has made it quite clear as to his intent, but just because someone has posted about this no matter the coincidences doesn't make it any more or less worthy of discussion no matter to whoms perception...A society without discussion is an isolated society and just because this post was submitted and others had not should not in-tale implication...

What we have here is a difference of motive that encourages much speculation in that someone murdering out of greed is not lacking as a means to better understand the crime...
User avatar
spot
Posts: 41336
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by spot »

K.Snyder;878476 wrote: What we have here is a difference of motive that encourages much speculation in that someone murdering out of greed is not lacking as a means to better understand the crime...
Keep going, I'm actually interested in the various conclusions we're reaching. How about murdering strangers? I do think, contrary to your earlier suggestion, that there's a hierarchy of wickedness involved in murder. Someone in a position of trust, for example, a doctor maybe who murders one of his patients, offends against the demands of society far more than someone who murders in a sudden onset of jealousy. Someone who murders a law officer in order to evade arrest is obviously far more wicked than one who murders an ageing parent to protect them from further suffering when they're terminally ill. Sentencing policy is variable for this specific reason, the law retains the use of the word murder but it mitigates the penalty on occasion.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
K.Snyder
Posts: 10253
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:05 pm

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by K.Snyder »

spot;878477 wrote: Keep going, I'm actually interested in the various conclusions we're reaching. How about murdering strangers? I do think, contrary to your earlier suggestion, that there's a hierarchy of wickedness involved in murder. Someone in a position of trust, for example, a doctor maybe who murders one of his patients, offends against the demands of society far more than someone who murders in a sudden onset of jealousy. Someone who murders a law officer in order to evade arrest is obviously far more wicked than one who murders an ageing parent to protect them from further suffering when they're terminally ill. Sentencing policy is variable for this specific reason, the law retains the use of the word murder but it mitigates the penalty on occasion.


Well to make it clear as to my position on the matter yes I feel all murders are equally heinous, but that doesn't mean I find them all to be committed by equally wicked people...Big difference but your touching on the laws of leniency in regards to murder and I'm sorry I just have none...And on that point I think it would be appropriate to let it be known that just because the state deems what they believe to be "murder" as defined by the convenience of that state doesn't mean by any means that I agree that it should be equally punishable by my own standards...(An example of this would be that of Carol Carr's case in 2002 http://www.science-spirit.org/article_d ... cle_id=343)...

I agree that there are cases of killings that should not be looked at as murders and those cases to myself are ones like Carol Carr's case and in instances of self defense...But there's a very fine line in establishing that which makes it all the more important to discuss it regardless of the coincidences...

The fact of the matter is is this person killed his sister much like many people do whether they're of the Muslim faith or not and whether it was a man beating his wife so hard after working 16 hours a day only to come home and get blitzed to the point of even more instability are equally heinous and they should be equally punished...Including not allowing these cowards to hide behind a pathetic "belief" so as to escape persecution after committing what I find to be the worst act humanity has ever partaken in...

I have no sympathy for a murderer as defined by my own definition of murder and these people should be locked up for the remainder of their natural born lives...In my view I find capital punishment to be not nearly as intimidating as being locked up for the rest of your life...Leniency needs to suffer the fate in which the death penalty seems to be taking and until then I'm sorry to say you're going to be hearing alot more of this bullshit...
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by Accountable »

spot;878303 wrote: Then why this need to ignore all the local murders, the murders on the same continent? Why do worldwide Western news agencies shriek their news about an honour killing in Germany, and why does it end up on ForumGarden, if all murders are equally heinous?You're right, Spot. I think you should balance the scales by posting a thread for each murder as they occur.



Off you go.
User avatar
spot
Posts: 41336
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by spot »

Accountable;878581 wrote: You're right, Spot. I think you should balance the scales by posting a thread for each murder as they occur.


You don't think it would be considered provocative? That's the only thing that's been holding me back.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by Accountable »

spot;878586 wrote: You don't think it would be considered provocative? That's the only thing that's been holding me back.
You know I like & respect you, Spot. Take it from me, you've let Red fill the void in your heart left by Snooze. It seems that you spend quite a bit of time & energy in her threads trying to derail the conversation by avoiding the subject in favor of putting her motives on trial. You've run Snooze out, and down, and you're trying to find a new demon to exorcise. That's what I see.
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by Accountable »

He's stopped posting in this thread for over twelve hours while still posting elsewhere in the Garden. I think he got the point.
User avatar
AussiePam
Posts: 9898
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:57 pm

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by AussiePam »

We once had a thread about moderating...

It attracted a good number of compliments about the excellent work done by most moderators - again thank you all! - and also answered the questions of a number of gardeners who were uncertain what moderators did and even who the moderators were.

There were also a number of less complimentary comments which would have been relevant to this thread and others like it, including - who moderates the moderators?

This was an interesting and worthwhile discussion which somehow just disappeared.
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"

User avatar
spot
Posts: 41336
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by spot »

Accountable;879048 wrote: He's stopped posting in this thread for over twelve hours while still posting elsewhere in the Garden. I think he got the point.


I went to a cricket match and then I slept! Good lord. It's 7am!

This thread's about incessant Muslim-bashing on the part of the popular press and the willingness of a few members here to jump on the bandwagon because they loathe Islam. I've not taken it off-topic in any direction and I've quite a way to go yet in developing this contrast with greed murder and murdering strangers. Working out new patterns from scratch takes a while and it's not guaranteed to be right but who knows, there might be something there. It feels right at the moment.

Red chose this story as one worth discussing, I'm discussing it. This obsession some people have with the idea that being a moderator precludes me from engaging in discussion is uninteresting. It's not a rank, it's a housekeeping job.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
K.Snyder
Posts: 10253
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:05 pm

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by K.Snyder »

spot;879134 wrote: I went to a cricket match and then I slept! Good lord. It's 7am!

This thread's about incessant Muslim-bashing on the part of the popular press and the willingness of a few members here to jump on the bandwagon because they loathe Islam. I've not taken it off-topic in any direction and I've quite a way to go yet in developing this contrast with greed murder and murdering strangers. Working out new patterns from scratch takes a while and it's not guaranteed to be right but who knows, there might be something there. It feels right at the moment.

Red chose this story as one worth discussing, I'm discussing it. This obsession some people have with the idea that being a moderator precludes me from engaging in discussion is uninteresting. It's not a rank, it's a housekeeping job.


This thread is about a person murdering their sister because they felt she "shamed" them inspired by their own insecurities...

I don't see how this is any different than someone thinking just because a '5 11" blond hair blue eyed man grew up getting beat by his father it's ok for him to beat his child...The fact of the matter is beating a child is wrong, but that doesn't mean all 5' 11" blond hair blue eyed men beat their children...

And I don't think it's particularly right to assume that this blond hair blue eyed man is 6' 4" without seeing a picture of him first...Meaning, I think it's more appropriate to ask people before making the assumption that they don't give a rats a** about other murders just because they seen a story and posted it...

As for the coincidences behind this horrible pathetic excuse for a "belief" I'll leave that up to those of you who feel it's more appropriate to target and blame the world of Islam when the real cause of the matter is the blatant disregard for human life and as I've said earlier insecurity...
User avatar
spot
Posts: 41336
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by spot »

rjwould;879248 wrote: Well, its your forum and nobody is going to ban you or issue an infraction/warning to you, so carry on, lad.

Of course, it doesn't matter at all that the vast majority of participants of this thread disagree with your hijacking and using it to further your agenda to harass and insult another member, right?


Well actually, I think I've done quite a lot of talking about the topic in hand in this thread and not a lot of insulting anyone while you, on the other hand, have been sniping at me unremittingly. It's not all that important which of us thinks what though, it's what the others make of the discussion. We're too involved to judge.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
User avatar
spot
Posts: 41336
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by spot »

rjwould;879318 wrote: Well actually, what you've done is an awful lot of talking about the topic as you've tried to frame and divert it to your liking, its called hijacking, Spot, and you do it often.The thread's about honour murders - look at the title! I've discussed, several ways, through the thread, the degree of wickedness involved in three identified motives for murder - Stranger murder, Greed murder and Honour murder. I think that's hugely on topic. I've discussed the reasons that the US media is so frenetically excited by the one (to the point of reporting widely on this non-US-related event in Germany) and so dismissive of the other two as categories. How can that not be centrally relevant? You're just criticizing me for thinking, that's what I reckon. We decided. did we, that RG is just picking up news stories randomly and that the disgusting bias against Islam is in what she reads, not in what she makes a conscious decision to select? That just leaves other biased-against-Islam posters who hone in on threads like this as magnets for their prejudices but relieves RG of complicity in deliberately running down the religion and those who practice it.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
User avatar
spot
Posts: 41336
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by spot »

Jester;879464 wrote: Get a grip Spot. You are way off base on this one.Be realistic Jester. Your government managed to get its armed forces deployed into the Middle East because it demonized Islam with the help of a passive compliant press. Lots of real people are dead because of that decision. It was a bad decision based on lies - the WMD stuff, for instance - and flawed assumptions - that the Middle East detractors of Israel would tumble one by one like dominoes to the US military presence. That's why you've become hyped up over Islam. PNAC said it would work, it didn't work, the policy has broken the US in the process.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
User avatar
spot
Posts: 41336
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by spot »

Jester;879485 wrote: You almost had me going on Iraq Spot... almost, glad I caught myself and fixed it before I posted.

Now do you see how far off topic your ate now, and do you see your agenda here?


How can what I posted be unrelated to a US news spread on a non-US "Afghan Honor Killing in Germany" story?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Posts: 16113
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by Bryn Mawr »

Jester;879507 wrote: The story is about assimilation of strong cultural and religous values, and the actions that are criminal as part of thoise vlaues and cultural ties.

If the murder was about Hindus then we'd be discussing that Im sure. But it just happens to be an lslamic person who committed the crime.

There is no agenda... its a story of interest.

Your assuming that the US government bent the media to post this, which they did not. And the US has been pretty clear that we are not against peaceful muslums, just against the terrorist factions in Islam.

We do not need to demonize Islam, thier violence does it for us.

Why dont you go find non-islamic honor killing story and post a one for one.


The media, both here and in the US, has been systematically daemonising Islam since before 9/11.
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Posts: 16113
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by Bryn Mawr »

Jester;879524 wrote: Sounds like a great thread topic, why dont you find a media lie about Islam and start a new thread.


Since when do you need a direct lie to distort the truth?

The major form is to blow an individual act out of all proportion and to ascribe it to the religion as a whole rather than to the individual.

Muslim cabbie refuses to take pig in cab

Muslin checkout girl refuses to sell Bible

Muslim newsagent refuses to sell Playboy

Muslim husband beats wife

In this instance the repeated reporting of Muslim honour killings without a word said against identical Hindu or African honour killings which happen in equal numbers.

Totally disproportionate reporting of all faults Muslim is as much a lie as specifically disprovable events being reported - indeed more so as it is pernicious.
User avatar
spot
Posts: 41336
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by spot »

Jester;879507 wrote: Your assuming that the US government bent the media to post this, which they did not.You know, I'm not making any such assumption. The OP was from - what a surprise - Fox "News". Fox is a consistent supporter of your current administration. Why would I assume the "US government" (far too broad a label - I've heard of the Administration, that's what I've referred to consistently, this is nothing to do with Congress) bends anyone? Organizations like Fox support their own interest. Demonizing Islam makes them money.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Posts: 16113
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by Bryn Mawr »

Jester;879532 wrote: So then start that thread, sounds like just what Spot has been trying to turn this thread into.

You two can have at it.


Do you deny it is happening?
User avatar
spot
Posts: 41336
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by spot »

Jester;879536 wrote: If anything the general media is in support of a moderate view of Islam.How strange that the random selection of news items which make it onto FG's home page never include any, if that's the case.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
User avatar
spot
Posts: 41336
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by spot »

Jester;879540 wrote: Hey its you who said that there's a biased by not putting all the news articles out there. If I could post what my buddies and I went through in Iraq and North Africa and other places you'd all get the truth of what Islam is like, not watered down through a fox news story to be very selective in its terminology to be fair and balanced.

Your forgetting that theres a whole nother side to what Islam is. The fox news story is mild compared to what Islam really does inside some countries. Fox news was generous towards Islam if they were biased in this story in my humble opinon.


I think people find what they go out looking for, that's a reasonable expectation supported by observation and report. Just volunteering for armed service changes the world view into polarised elements of for or against, pro or con, human or subhuman, kill or help. Is it reasonable to expect a country to eagerly lie down under foreign occupation and to continue to thank their occupiers once the occupiers have left? Wait and see - that's the final test, whether the "friends" that have been given power continue to speak kindly of America once the troops go home. Assuming they ever do up sticks and withdraw, which would be a major break from previous experience ever since Truman chose the Cold War confrontation.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Posts: 16113
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by Bryn Mawr »

Jester;879536 wrote: Oh I dont doubt the media bias at all, its everywhere.

But the media is generally in favor of Islamists, and not typically into demonizing them, the USmedia in particular ignores thousands of stories that could make it unto an anti-islam weekly TV special, that woudl quickly takeit to syndication if there was a desire to do so.

I think you and Spot are seeing things that arent there.

If anything the general media is in support of a moderate view of Islam.


And I think that you are blind to what is being done to you.
User avatar
Galbally
Posts: 9755
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:26 pm

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by Galbally »

This thread has been completely derailed, and has (as usual) turned into a thread about how terrible US policy is and how its responsible for the situation. Which is odd, as I am not sure that the young girl in question was stabbed repeatedly by her Brother in response to any Brent Snowcroft speeches.

As to the wider issues of there being negative publicity in the western media about Islam, that's a function of the events that surround us, its not a conspiracy. Would you prefer if all negative stories about Islamic-related crime or social issues were banned from the media?

And if the absolute majority of Western people have negative attitudes towards Islam nowadays, do you think that's Rupert Murdoch's fault? Or perhaps is the fault of the global Islamicist movement, its hate-driven campaign of terror against us, the pathetic and cowardly response of our governments and our gormless intellectuals in the face of Muslim cultural intimidation, the constant hate propaganda constantly coming out of the Muslim world directed at Jews (primarily) and Westerners also, as well (co-incidently) as the small matter of the mass murder committed in New York in 2001, along with the devastating bombs in London, Madrid, Bali, as well as the plots that didn't pay off (yet).

And before you bring Iraq into this, all of this stuff was going on a long time before Iraq, which (due to a very flawed strategic US policy) has simply become a convienient recruiting sergeant for the Islamicists, just like Palestine.

And just to reiterate, I don't support the Iraq war and never did, not because war is not the correct response, just that it was the wrong war, against the wrong enemy, in the wrong theatre; thereby making the death and misery totally that is inevitably involved in any war totally unjustifiable in this particular instance (again this has nothing to do with what happened in Hamburg, I am just getting my retaliation in early).
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"



Le Rochefoucauld.



"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."



My dad 1986.
K.Snyder
Posts: 10253
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:05 pm

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by K.Snyder »

spot;879472 wrote: Be realistic Jester. Your government managed to get its armed forces deployed into the Middle East because it demonized Islam with the help of a passive compliant press. Lots of real people are dead because of that decision. It was a bad decision based on lies - the WMD stuff, for instance - and flawed assumptions - that the Middle East detractors of Israel would tumble one by one like dominoes to the US military presence. That's why you've become hyped up over Islam. PNAC said it would work, it didn't work, the policy has broken the US in the process.


I think if you would have asked all Americans if they favored going to war with Iraq they would have said no...(Edit: The majority I mean)

My only argument is that it's rather tiresome to be criticized in the same light in which the government is based on by what it is they do or say...I'm not saying that you do criticize each and every American based on what it is the American government does but I am saying that this is stereotypical to no end and is completely unjustified...
User avatar
spot
Posts: 41336
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by spot »

K.Snyder;879644 wrote: My only argument is that it's rather tiresome to be criticized in the same light in which the government is based on by what it is they do or say...I'm not saying that you do criticize each and every American based on what it is the American government does but I am saying that this is stereotypical to no end and is completely unjustified...


Have you not read Real Change yet? The way to understand a society is to read the idealisms of that society's thinkers. Real Change defines the USA for the current generation.

America has a natural, overwhelming conservative majority - and the real division is between red-white-and-blue America (about 85% of the county) versus a sickly pastel pink leftist fringe (the other 15%). The pastel pinks have not only perpetuated the myth that the country is equally divided, they have also insisted that their positions hold moral superiority. Neither is true. And yet the Republicans have been so lacking in backbone and conviction that they have accepted these myths, but tell themselves that they can manage big government better than the Democrats - which really means managing decline and managing failure. 70 to 90 percent of Americans agree on all the major issues that confront the country, that's Newt's opinion in black and white. You should read his book before you try telling people what Americans are like.

https://members.humaneventsonline.com/o ... offer=1207
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
RedGlitter
Posts: 15777
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by RedGlitter »

You should read his book before you try telling people what Americans are like.


You should be an American before you try to tell anyone what Americans are like. :yh_flag
User avatar
Galbally
Posts: 9755
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:26 pm

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by Galbally »

To make the point that not all Western media stories about Islam are entirely Joseph Gobbels style agit prop, this is from today's Independent Newspaper in Britain.

Muslim seminary issues fatwa against terrorism

By Andrew Buncombe in Delhi

Monday, 2 June 2008

"A Muslim Indian seminary which is said to have inspired the Taliban has issued a fatwa against terrorism, insisting that Islam is a religion of peace.

Senior clerics from the 150-year-old Darul Uloom Deoband issued the edict saying they wished to wipe out terrorism. "Islam rejects all kinds of unjust violence, breach of peace, bloodshed, murder and plunder and does not allow it in any form," said the rector, Habibur Rehman, to the cheers of thousands of students. Many held placards saying "Islam means peace", while others chanted.

"The religion of Islam has come to wipe out all kinds of terrorism and to spread the message of global peace," Mr Rehman added.

The Deoband institute was established in the aftermath of the 1857 uprising against British rule, an uprising that was brutally suppressed by the imperial forces. Highly influential, it controls thousands of smaller seminaries and madrassas around the world, from Britain to Afghanistan.

Of Britain's 1,400 mosques, about 600 are run by Deobandi-affiliated clerics. Seventeen of the UK's 26 Islamic seminaries follow Deobandi teachings, which produce about 80 per cent of all domestically trained Muslim clerics.

Analysts say the move to speak out against terrorism would be welcomed by the overwhelming majority of India's 140 million Muslim population, many of whom believe the image of their religion has been tarnished by the actions of a small number of people.

"It is an awakening among Muslim groups to the dangers that face them as a fallout of terrorism and suspected association of terrorism with Muslims," Pran Chopra, an analyst, told Reuters after the fatwa was issued this weekend. "The response by the Muslim population [to acts of violence] has been worth noticing and the fatwa is a very welcome development."

The seminary was founded by Maulana Muhammad Qasim Nanautawi, who ordered that it should use modern teaching methods, unlike similar institutions at the time. He also decided that it should teach in Urdu rather than English and remain outside of political debate. Despite this decision, the seminary opposed the division of India and supported the creation of a united country for Muslims and Hindus".
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"



Le Rochefoucauld.



"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."



My dad 1986.
K.Snyder
Posts: 10253
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:05 pm

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by K.Snyder »

spot;879650 wrote: Have you not read Real Change yet? The way to understand a society is to read the idealisms of that society's thinkers. Real Change defines the USA for the current generation.

America has a natural, overwhelming conservative majority - and the real division is between red-white-and-blue America (about 85% of the county) versus a sickly pastel pink leftist fringe (the other 15%). The pastel pinks have not only perpetuated the myth that the country is equally divided, they have also insisted that their positions hold moral superiority. Neither is true. And yet the Republicans have been so lacking in backbone and conviction that they have accepted these myths, but tell themselves that they can manage big government better than the Democrats - which really means managing decline and managing failure. 70 to 90 percent of Americans agree on all the major issues that confront the country, that's Newt's opinion in black and white. You should read his book before you try telling people what Americans are like.

https://members.humaneventsonline.com/o ... offer=1207


Spot at what point did I ever try to tell you what Americans are like?...Look around chief I'll be waiting...

I am however telling you what this American is like and you should pay attention...

As I said before...Rather stereotypical and completely unjustified...

You should read my posts before you try telling this American that percentages represent the ideals of an American perspective...

Seeing as how you like people to bring facts to threads you shouldn't have a problem showing the testimony from that of 304,230,803 American citizens...
User avatar
spot
Posts: 41336
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by spot »

K.Snyder;879660 wrote: Spot at what point did I ever try to tell you what Americans are like?...Look around chief I'll be waiting...I'm not getting my point across, obviously. I'm getting conflicting advice between what you're telling me and what Newt's telling me. That was the point of my quote. Newt's discussing the proportion of US citizens who think American vs the proportion who are pinko commie traitors to the nation. He's quite adamant that there are more of the first than there are of the second. America has a natural, overwhelming conservative majority. Newt told me so. I'm not telling anyone what Americans are like, I'm telling people what Newt says Americans are like. Newt's an American and, without wishing to upset you, he's quite certain that he's more of an American than any pinko commie traitor is.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
K.Snyder
Posts: 10253
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:05 pm

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by K.Snyder »

spot;879715 wrote: I'm not getting my point across, obviously. I'm getting conflicting advice between what you're telling me and what Newt's telling me. That was the point of my quote. Newt's discussing the proportion of US citizens who think American vs the proportion who are pinko commie traitors to the nation. He's quite adamant that there are more of the first than there are of the second. America has a natural, overwhelming conservative majority. Newt told me so. I'm not telling anyone what Americans are like, I'm telling people what Newt says Americans are like. Newt's an American and, without wishing to upset you, he's quite certain that he's more of an American than any pinko commie traitor is.


spot;879715 wrote: You should read his book before you try telling people what Americans are like.


Well, surely you realize the implications behind this statement alone...

But to place this persons opinion as the "be all and end all" truth is again presumptuous and hopefully you understand my frustration when it comes to being labeled one in the same of anyone else let alone Americans in which I feel should recollect upon their humanity before waving their flag...
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by Accountable »

He's yanking your chain, K.
K.Snyder
Posts: 10253
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:05 pm

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by K.Snyder »

Accountable;880448 wrote: He's yanking your chain, K.


Sarcasm I realize that...

I'm just making a statement as I've said before...I wasn't implying that he were trying to tell me what Americans were like...

Simple statement in light of the discussion...
User avatar
spot
Posts: 41336
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Brigstowe

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by spot »

Accountable;880448 wrote: He's yanking your chain, K.


How uncouth! You'll make the poor lad flush if you say that.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
K.Snyder
Posts: 10253
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:05 pm

Afghan Honor Killing in Germany

Post by K.Snyder »

spot;880477 wrote: How uncouth! You'll make the poor lad flush if you say that.


I'm not familiar with Newt's writings nor do I care...
Post Reply

Return to “Crimes Trials”