shannon found safe and well

AA grumpy
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shannon found safe and well

Post by AA grumpy »

hello and welcome along to the AA grumpy page this wet sunday morning.

its joy, cake, and cigars for the west yorkshire police this week as abducted 9 year old shannon matthews was found alive safe and well.

its always good news to know that an abutcted child is found safe as so many of these cases end in tragedy like little jamie bulger who would have been 18 this week.

lets hope that the vile paedophile pervert who abucted shannon is jailed for life and spends the rest of his days rotting in wakefield maxium security prison with the added bonus of a good hiding or two from fellow cons and staff.

speaking of jamie bulger sky news reported denise bulger is trying to raise funds to build a centre in memory of jamie who was murdered many years ago called the jamie bulger centre.

good luck with that it will be an everlasting memorial to jamie and may the big hearted people of liverpool give generously.

the case is also a travesty of justice that venables and thompson who killed jamie are somewhere out there with new identities not rotting in jail where they belong.

still its like the saying what goes around comes around they still have to walk around watching their backs as retribution will hopefully catch them up one day .

and jamie can then rest in peace.

AA grumpy:D:D
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Post by spot »

"vile paedophile pervert"?

You're not prejudging the situation, perhaps?

It sounds extremely unlikely to me.
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shannon found safe and well

Post by abbey »

AA grumpy;804786 wrote: hello and welcome along to the AA grumpy page this wet sunday morning.

its joy, cake, and cigars for the west yorkshire police this week as abducted 9 year old shannon matthews was found alive safe and well.

its always good news to know that an abutcted child is found safe as so many of these cases end in tragedy like little jamie bulger

My Aunt is married to the brother of Shannons biological father yet I still have an open mind as to what happened.

As for " Joy, cake, and cigars for the west yorkshire police" WTF???????

We are speaking of the same force that interviewed and set free Peter Sutcliffe the Yorkshire Ripper?

If I was that little girls mum I'd be spewing flames right now! :mad:
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Post by spot »

We are, I suspect, speaking to someone whose sole desire here is to annoy people. Some entertain, some inform, some socialize, this one's just another incompetent muckspreader.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by AA grumpy »

abbey;804817 wrote: My Aunt is married to the brother of Shannons mother yet I still have an open mind as to what happened.

As for " Joy, cake, and cigars for the west yorkshire police" WTF???????

We are speaking of the same force that interviewed and set free Peter Sutcliffe the Yorkshire Ripper?

If I was that little girls mum I'd be spewing flames right now! :mad:


maybe so but at least shannon is safe and well and alive how many other children have been found dead or not at all.

at least the outcome was a happy one
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Post by AA grumpy »

spot;804805 wrote: "vile paedophile pervert"?

You're not prejudging the situation, perhaps?

It sounds extremely unlikely to me.


for what other reason did he abduct this child then?

not for company im sure was it for his own selfish perverted means or was shannon to be sold or passed on to an underground pedophile ring abused and then possibly killed we may never find out but thank god they found her in time.

if you are a liberal minded bleeding heart do gooder who assumes these perverts can be rehabilitated then it makes you as dangerous as they are.

they need to be locked away from society for many years to come if not permenatly.

we need only to think back to soham and how holly wells and jessica chapman suffered at the hands of ian huntley and are now dead.

this was a serious post not muck spreading:-5
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Post by spot »

Your problem, grumpy, is that the persona you've chosen is plain ignorant and unlikeable. So why should you expect to be treated seriously?

I expect she went to him for help. I expect he thought he was helping. I doubt whether he damaged her in the slightest though I expect Social Services will do their best to wreck her life. He's in a lot of trouble but it'll be interesting to see what he's charged with. Obviously abduction since she's incapable of giving consent to being away from her legal guardians. I doubt whether we'll see rape there though. Obviously we would if he molested her but I don't see any reason to think he did.

There are indeed dangerous abductors who mean harm to their victims, I don't think you have any reason yet to class this chap as one. You're allowing your grubby tabloid mentality too much freedom.

On a point of information, since you asked, I think Ian Huntley should indeed stay jailed for life because he really is a threat to youngsters and I agree with you that there's no known treatment, as far as I'm aware, that could be applied to him. There are several dozen people in that category in the UK, maybe even a hundred, I've not enquired.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Recent news reports have indicated that Shannon was not harmed in any way and suggested that other members of her extended family might have known where she was.

It is still unclear whether she was hidden in the underbed cupboard or was hiding there - if the former it would be almost impossible to stop her from attracting attention. If she was hiding there and actively trying to avoid being found then questions have to be asked what she was trying to avoid at home.
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Post by CARLA »

Bryn I agree after reading up on this story I have the same questions. Seems there might have been several thing going on here.

AA Grumpy I agree with you totally on the 0% tolerence of child abductor, and pedifiles, child rapest. I don't care what this guys excuse for abducting Shannon were, they were wrong. It will be a long haul in therapy for her to get past this. I too am tied of making excuses for people that harm children in any fashion at all. We are suppose to protect them at all cost. For me its that simple you harm a child your should be punished to the maximum of all laws. My opinion anyway. :mad:

[QUOTE]Recent news reports have indicated that Shannon was not harmed in any way and suggested that other members of her extended family might have known where she was.

It is still unclear whether she was hidden in the underbed cupboard or was hiding there - if the former it would be almost impossible to stop her from attracting attention. If she was hiding there and actively trying to avoid being found then questions have to be asked what she was trying to avoid at home.[/QUOTE]
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Post by spot »

Carla, "its that simple you harm a child your should be punished to the maximum of all laws" suggests that no matter what degree of harm is inflicted on a child the law should treat the offender identically. It rather leaves the offender with no restraint on how far he goes if he gets an identical punishment regardless of his behavior, once he's crossed the line into criminality. A graded system of punishment can still impose a restraint. The old English saying "might as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb" has the reality of your threat behind it - if the sentence for sheep-stealing's identical to that for lamb-stealing the criminal might as well have a full cooking pot.

I notice I've just been told I'm as dangerous as a paedophile merely for holding certain opinions. It's the sandbagging technique of bullying populists and it's not the first time. I note that there's a FG poster who's asked before now whether my neighbors know they have a child molester living next door to them and whether I'm on the sex register yet, simply because she disagrees hysterically with my opinion. I note that she still has an account, though her constant harping that I abuse my moderator status here hasn't abated.
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Post by AA grumpy »

spot;805548 wrote: Carla, "its that simple you harm a child your should be punished to the maximum of all laws" suggests that no matter what degree of harm is inflicted on a child the law should treat the offender identically. It rather leaves the offender with no restraint on how far he goes if he gets an identical punishment regardless of his behavior, once he's crossed the line into criminality. A graded system of punishment can still impose a restraint. The old English saying "might as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb" has the reality of your threat behind it - if the sentence for sheep-stealing's identical to that for lamb-stealing the criminal might as well have a full cooking pot.

I notice I've just been told I'm as dangerous as a paedophile merely for holding certain opinions. It's the sandbagging technique of bullying populists and it's not the first time. I note that there's a FG poster who's asked before now whether my neighbors know they have a child molester living next door to them and whether I'm on the sex register yet, simply because she disagrees hysterically with my opinion. I note that she still has an account, though her constant harping that I abuse my moderator status here hasn't abated.


im afraid i must disagree with you there spot.

it is the liberal approach thats made the justice system what it is.

the courts give out too many smack on the wrist sentences i.e asbos which do not work comunity orders and fines are given out to offenders who just go out and commit more crime again.

when i was young we had borstals and willie whitelaws detention centres a six week short sharp shock based on disipline and obidience,

this is what we need to get back to lock them up put young yobs in borstal or detention centre and restore the death penalty of murder and let the police reclaim the streets and not fear the yob again.
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Post by spot »

AA grumpy;805640 wrote: im afraid i must disagree with you there spot.Your opinion means less to me than that of practically anyone I've met in my entire life so you can stop whining right now.

The reason your views are immaterial is that you can't impose them on the ruling elite and thank Christ for that. By all means write to the Sun instead - just don't pretend your manic prejudices will ever affect reality.

How about sticking to the topic of "Shannon found safe and well" instead of pushing the same tired opinions in every thread? It's an interesting topic. I suspect every sentence you've posted about it so far is completely mistaken which is par for the course whatever you write.
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Post by gmc »

AA grumpy;805640 wrote: im afraid i must disagree with you there spot.

it is the liberal approach thats made the justice system what it is.

the courts give out too many smack on the wrist sentences i.e asbos which do not work comunity orders and fines are given out to offenders who just go out and commit more crime again.

when i was young we had borstals and willie whitelaws detention centres a six week short sharp shock based on disipline and obidience,

this is what we need to get back to lock them up put young yobs in borstal or detention centre and restore the death penalty of murder and let the police reclaim the streets and not fear the yob again.


There hasn't actually been a liberal government in power since world war one. So where do you get the idea the current situation has anything to do with the liberals?

Asbos were brought in by labour, they are also the ons introducing great concepts like early release and the idea you only need to serve half your sentence.

Borstals were abolished in 1982 under Thatcher to help finance the tax cuts. She was also the one that brought in care in the community and let all the nutters out on the streets so they could kill anyone they felt like it. Not so much a liberal approach as an I don't give a **** for the consequences sio ling as it saves money.

So what were you, mod, rocker, hippy or old enough to have been a teddy boy?
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

CARLA;805532 wrote: Bryn I agree after reading up on this story I have the same questions. Seems there might have been several thing going on here.

AA Grumpy I agree with you totally on the 0% tolerence of child abductor, and pedifiles, child rapest. I don't care what this guys excuse for abducting Shannon were, they were wrong. It will be a long haul in therapy for her to get past this. I too am tied of making excuses for people that harm children in any fashion at all. We are suppose to protect them at all cost. For me its that simple you harm a child your should be punished to the maximum of all laws. My opinion anyway. :mad:


Let me posit a possible scenario and see how you react.

Please note, this is a theoretical exercise only and I am not suggesting that it holds any truth.



The stepfather is, unbeknownst to the mother, an abuser and is threatening and trying to force the girl. The mother is besotted and turns a deaf ear to what's going on and the hints that the girl drops.

She turns to others in the family to help but hysterically refuses to have the authorities brought in for fear of the consequences to her mother whom she loves dearly.

In order to protect the girl and fearing that she'll run away / commit suicide if pressed about bringing in the authorities they take her in and hide her, hoping to persuade her or to sort the stepfather out another way.



Way out of the possible? I don't know - they don't appear to be the brightest people in the world.

Accounts for all of the facts so far released? Yes, I believe so.

Puts the "abduction" in a different light? Certainly



All I am trying to say is, we cannot judge, we cannot condemn, on the evidence so far presented.

To say "lets hope that the vile paedophile pervert who abucted shannon is jailed for life and spends the rest of his days rotting in wakefield maxium security prison with the added bonus of a good hiding or two from fellow cons and staff." is jumping the gun and moving into lynch mob territory.

Even "I don't care what this guys excuse for abducting Shannon were, they were wrong" is making more assumptions that are warranted - she was not harmed, appears have been a willing accomplice and, with others in the family also knowing, it could easily have been done with good intentions all round.
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Post by Pheasy »

Is it normal for an 'abducted' child to be held under an emergency police protection order?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 527069.ece
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Pheasy;806495 wrote: Is it normal for an 'abducted' child to be held under an emergency police protection order?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 527069.ece


I very much doubt that it is.

Apparently, the uncle has been making allegations and, although he is not being believed, these allegations have to be checked out before she can go home.
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Post by AA grumpy »

gmc;805682 wrote: There hasn't actually been a liberal government in power since world war one. So where do you get the idea the current situation has anything to do with the liberals?

Asbos were brought in by labour, they are also the ons introducing great concepts like early release and the idea you only need to serve half your sentence.

Borstals were abolished in 1982 under Thatcher to help finance the tax cuts. She was also the one that brought in care in the community and let all the nutters out on the streets so they could kill anyone they felt like it. Not so much a liberal approach as an I don't give a **** for the consequences sio ling as it saves money.

So what were you, mod, rocker, hippy or old enough to have been a teddy boy?


im talking about the liberal bleeding heart do gooder brigade not a lib dem government .

thank god they never get in

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Post by AA grumpy »

spot;805661 wrote: Your opinion means less to me than that of practically anyone I've met in my entire life so you can stop whining right now.

The reason your views are immaterial is that you can't impose them on the ruling elite and thank Christ for that. By all means write to the Sun instead - just don't pretend your manic prejudices will ever affect reality.

How about sticking to the topic of "Shannon found safe and well" instead of pushing the same tired opinions in every thread? It's an interesting topic. I suspect every sentence you've posted about it so far is completely mistaken which is par for the course whatever you write.


loggerheads aside how would you deal with criminals then ?

i assume you as a liberalist so what would your personal liberalist approch be ?

INTRESTED IN YOUR VIEWPOINT

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Post by spot »

AA grumpy;806760 wrote: im talking about the liberal bleeding heart do gooder brigade not a lib dem government .

thank god they never get in

AAGl


I'm trying to untangle your syntax.

Thank god the Liberal Democrat party never forms an administration instead of the liberal bleeding heart do gooder brigade we suffer under? Is that your meaning?

Can you explain why?
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Post by spot »

AA grumpy;806765 wrote: loggerheads aside how would you deal with criminals then ?

i assume you as a liberalist so what would your personal liberalist approch be ?

INTRESTED IN YOUR VIEWPOINT

AAG


Short of writing an essay, how would a few bulletpoints sound?

The government has no business running jails, they all ought to be privatised. That allows the government to set objectives for the prisons to achieve or lose money.

I'd make it unlawful for the police and DPP not to thoroughly investigate every crime reported to them and unlawful not to go to court with their evidence, I'm sick of the police turning their eye in one direction and refusing to look in others. Every crime should be detected. Every crime should be investigated. Every defendant with a case to answer should be charged and tried. Everyone convicted of a crime should go to jail on a life sentence and only see the outside world again when released on parole.

I'd change the basis of payment to the prisons. I'd pay them nothing for keeping prisoners, they can keep them at their own expense. The prison gets paid when it releases the prisoner. The prison can parole anyone any time it wants and get its payment - a fixed price bounty unrelated to how long they've kept the prisoner inside. If the prisoner re-offends the prison pays a forfeit considerably in excess of the money they received for letting him out.

What that gets you is a justice system that only pays prisons which evolve genuine practical methods of rehabilitation into the community of people unlikely to ever re-offend. I'm sure the capitalists would fall over themselves working out techniques with that sort of incentive.

It needs a couple of safeguards the main one being that prison shareholders, like Lloyds names, can have no limited liability. Otherwise the prisons would just release everyone, hand the huge windfall to the shareholders and then go into liquidation.

The consequence? With that indefinite life penalty for all crime from littering upward there's two. There'll be a rush to decriminalize a lot of laws that currently get ignored by the police and there'll be a genuine deterrence against offending. Crime goes down markedly, the police get to focus on far fewer crimes, genuine clear-up rates rise accentuating the deterrence. We end up, after a bottleneck while people learn how it works, with far less crime and fewer people in prison.

That's the liberal bleeding heart do gooder brigade's approach to law and order.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by AA grumpy »

spot;806766 wrote: I'm trying to untangle your syntax.

Thank god the Liberal Democrat party never forms an administration instead of the liberal bleeding heart do gooder brigade we suffer under? Is that your meaning?

Can you explain why?


the gentleman thought i meant a liberal government when i meant the liberalist do gooders who believe in rehabilitate not jail.

hope this clarifys the situation.

AA G

p.s thanks for your liberalist view it made intresting reading however i would prefer the days of dixon of dock green myself the old fasioned bobby.
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Post by spot »

AA grumpy;806807 wrote: the gentleman thought i meant a liberal government when i meant the liberalist do gooders who believe in rehabilitate not jail.

hope this clarifys the situation.

AA G

p.s thanks for your liberalist view it made intresting reading however i would prefer the days of dixon of dock green myself the old fasioned bobby.
Rather like the merrie barons of olde Englande, I suspect your Dock Green sergeants and inspectors were spectacularly corrupt, on the take and banging people up on false evidence because it was more profitable and easier. I think I might insist on privatising the police as well just to get some results, with at least half the force constantly investigating the other half for criminality.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

AA grumpy;806807 wrote: the gentleman thought i meant a liberal government when i meant the liberalist do gooders who believe in rehabilitate not jail.

hope this clarifys the situation.

AA G

p.s thanks for your liberalist view it made intresting reading however i would prefer the days of dixon of dock green myself the old fasioned bobby.


Which gentleman?

BTW, time moves on and situations change - Dixon of Dock Green would be lost and overwhelmed if asked to police present day London.

Yes, it would be nice if that type of policing could still work but different times need different solutions.
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Post by spot »

Here we go. Tell me when you end up agreeing with me.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7300069.stm

Peter Mann, head of the Crown Prosecution Service's (CPS) West and North Yorkshire complex case unit, said: "The Crown Prosecution Service has been working closely with the police in connection with this case since the arrest of Michael Donovan, formerly known as Paul Drake, on Friday March 14.

"As the case has developed we have been carefully examining and assessing the evidence in order to come to a charging decision at the earliest possible opportunity. Having carefully considered all of the material supplied by West Yorkshire Police, we have made the decision that there is sufficient evidence and have authorised that Michael Donovan should be charged with kidnapping and false imprisonment. We will continue to keep this case under constant review as it develops."Not a lot of "selfish perverted means" or "sold or passed on to an underground pedophile ring abused and then possibly killed" really. Or do you think they'd not press appropriate charges if she'd been molested?

Are we still up there with "vile paedophile pervert who abucted shannon is jailed for life and spends the rest of his days rotting in wakefield maxium security prison with the added bonus of a good hiding or two from fellow cons and staff"?

The key word in the statement is "all", in the phrase "Having carefully considered all of the material supplied by West Yorkshire Police".
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by spot »

Hush, I'm slapping an idiot. Come back when I've finished.

I'm sick of tribal unempathic emo sensationalists who haven't a clue of how to assess risk. It's people like Grumpy who went round Rwanda with machetes.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by spot »

I'll stick with this moral quarterstaff I think, it's more scientific.
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Post by spot »

Still interested in how this is coming along, anyone?



http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/32 ... -arrests-/

Karen and her super-market fishmonger partner Craig Meehan, 22, have been questioned by police for 13 hours. A family pal said they were quizzed as witnesses, not suspects. Craig’s sister Amanda, who lives next door, has also been interviewed by detectives as a witness. Computer programmer Donovan, 39, who has been remanded in custody charged with snatching Shannon, is Craig and Amanda’s uncle.

Shannon vanished on the way home from school on February 19. She was allegedly found in the base of a double divan bed at Donovan’s first-floor rented council flat a mile away in Batley Carr, Dewsbury, last Friday. Detectives are gently trying to coax from her what happened during her 24 “missing” days. School pals have said she told them she planned to run away from home.

Police also want to know why dozens of members of the youngster’s vast family failed to tell them about Donovan after being asked during the search to list all known relatives. Some have claimed they simply forgot.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by Pheasy »

spot;811626 wrote: Still interested in how this is coming along, anyone?



http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/32 ... -arrests-/

Karen and her super-market fishmonger partner Craig Meehan, 22, have been questioned by police for 13 hours. A family pal said they were quizzed as witnesses, not suspects. Craig’s sister Amanda, who lives next door, has also been interviewed by detectives as a witness. Computer programmer Donovan, 39, who has been remanded in custody charged with snatching Shannon, is Craig and Amanda’s uncle.

Shannon vanished on the way home from school on February 19. She was allegedly found in the base of a double divan bed at Donovan’s first-floor rented council flat a mile away in Batley Carr, Dewsbury, last Friday. Detectives are gently trying to coax from her what happened during her 24 “missing” days. School pals have said she told them she planned to run away from home.

Police also want to know why dozens of members of the youngster’s vast family failed to tell them about Donovan after being asked during the search to list all known relatives. Some have claimed they simply forgot.


There is definitely a little more to this case than initially meets the eye. Did you see the pictures of where they were both hiding .... :thinking: very odd.
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Post by spot »

All together now... Oooh. Gosh.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 602644.ece

Child protection officers in West Yorkshire were “actively considering” taking Shannon Matthews into care days before the nine-year-old schoolgirl was kidnapped, sources close to the police investigation have said. The insiders said that social services in Leeds had been closely monitoring the family right up to the day Shannon was abducted on her way home from a school swimming lesson in Dewsbury on February 19.

They were considering issuing a care order to take her away from her mother on the grounds that her personal welfare might be at risk. “They were actively monitoring the family very, very closely and taking Shannon into care was being considered,” a senior official with knowledge of the police inquiry said this weekend.

The powers available to Social Services are absolutely abhorrent, arbitrary and unchallengeable. Maybe this is turning out to have been an extreme reaction to the threat they pose to families.
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Post by abbey »

spot;813956 wrote: All together now... Oooh. Gosh.



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 602644.ece







They were considering issuing a care order to take her away from her mother on the grounds that her personal welfare might be at risk. “They were actively monitoring the family very, very closely and taking Shannon into care was being considered,” a senior official with knowledge of the police inquiry said this weekend.

.Obviously not closely enough!
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Post by spot »

Strangely the Sun has gone all coy and quiet over this and stopped shouting sicko perv ought to be strung up.Shannon kidnap trial date set

A MAN accused of kidnapping Shannon Matthews and holding her prisoner for 24 days will go on trial on November 11. Computer programmer Mike Donovan, 39, uncle of her stepdad Craig Meehan, 22, was remanded in custody yesterday at Leeds Crown Court.

Shannon, nine, vanished on February 19 in Dewsbury Moor, West Yorks. She was found a mile from her home inside the base of a divan bed.
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Post by spot »

Come on grumpy, let's talk about vigilantes for a few posts shall we? You rarely post without expressing a wish to see someone killed or injured extra-judicially, this is just one instance.

The context is "lets hope that the vile paedophile pervert who abucted shannon is jailed for life and spends the rest of his days rotting in wakefield maxium security prison with the added bonus of a good hiding or two from fellow cons and staff."

I refer you to this morning's Times (a shoddy insignificant rag these days, but there you go) “She said she knew where Shannon was from day one. She wanted to leave Craig, and Donovan had previously offered her a place to stay. They’d talked about it at the funeral of Craig’s father in December. She had wanted to leave Craig but she lost her bottle at the last minute. She had not asked him [Mr Donovan] to take Shannon, but he acted impulsively.”

Ms Matthews is said to have told her friends that as the hours after her daughter’s disappearance turned into days, “everything got out of control and she didn’t know how to stop it” because she was too ashamed to tell the truth. Mr Donovan, a former computer programmer, is understood to have maintained from the day of his arrest that other members of Shannon’s family, including the girl’s mother, had known that she was with him. Detectives believed initially that his allegations were a fabricated attempt to reduce his own culpability, but they will now investigate whether the picture is more complex.
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Post by AA grumpy »

spot;831696 wrote: Come on grumpy, let's talk about vigilantes for a few posts shall we? You rarely post without expressing a wish to see someone killed or injured extra-judicially, this is just one instance.

The context is "lets hope that the vile paedophile pervert who abucted shannon is jailed for life and spends the rest of his days rotting in wakefield maxium security prison with the added bonus of a good hiding or two from fellow cons and staff."

I refer you to this morning's Times (a shoddy insignificant rag these days, but there you go) “She said she knew where Shannon was from day one. She wanted to leave Craig, and Donovan had previously offered her a place to stay. They’d talked about it at the funeral of Craig’s father in December. She had wanted to leave Craig but she lost her bottle at the last minute. She had not asked him [Mr Donovan] to take Shannon, but he acted impulsively.”

Ms Matthews is said to have told her friends that as the hours after her daughter’s disappearance turned into days, “everything got out of control and she didn’t know how to stop it” because she was too ashamed to tell the truth. Mr Donovan, a former computer programmer, is understood to have maintained from the day of his arrest that other members of Shannon’s family, including the girl’s mother, had known that she was with him. Detectives believed initially that his allegations were a fabricated attempt to reduce his own culpability, but they will now investigate whether the picture is more complex.


there are different versions going round for this to the point of i dont know what to believe anymore.

the main point though the child is safe thats what matters
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Post by spot »

How cloyingly sentimental of you. I'd much rather focus on your deliberate incitement of vigilantes if that's okay.Cops even distributed leaflets across the Dewsbury Moor estate calling for calm and urging locals: “Please do not take the law into your own hands. Let the police do their job.”Their attitude stands in marked contrast to the grumpy view of life in which equally complicated cases result in people "watching their backs as retribution will hopefully catch them up one day".
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spot;821099 wrote: Strangely the Sun has gone all coy and quiet over this and stopped shouting sicko perv ought to be strung up.Shannon kidnap trial date set

A MAN accused of kidnapping Shannon Matthews and holding her prisoner for 24 days will go on trial on November 11. Computer programmer Mike Donovan, 39, uncle of her stepdad Craig Meehan, 22, was remanded in custody yesterday at Leeds Crown Court.

Shannon, nine, vanished on February 19 in Dewsbury Moor, West Yorks. She was found a mile from her home inside the base of a divan bed. They had their first appearance in court today. Mr Donovan and Shannon's mother are charged jointly.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west ... 599400.stm

Reading out the details of the kidnap charge to Mrs Matthews and Mr Donovan, the court clerk said: "On the 19th day of February, 2008, you unlawfully and by force or fraud took or carried away Shannon Matthews against her will."

The false imprisonment charge was read to them as: "Between the 18th day of February 2008 and the 15th day of March 2008 you unlawfully and injuriously imprisoned and detained Shannon Matthews against her will."

The charge of perverting the course of justice said the accused "did a series of acts which had a tendency to pervert the course of public justice and that you reported to the West Yorkshire Police that Shannon Matthews was a missing person when you knew where she was and you were keeping her from being found".

Both were remanded in custody until their trial on 11 November.

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Post by Oscar Namechange »

In mho, Shannon Matthews mother is not the brightest lightbulb in the pack is she??

Maybe, there's a possibility, that this unfortunate woman loved her daughter so much that she didn't want the gestapo social services, and let's be honest, who have cocked up on a major scale before, taking Shannon away simply because the S.S.'s think she's too unintelligent to care for her.

Maybe, in her un-intelligent world, she did not have the money for fancy lawyers to fight them nor the brains to aquire enough knowledge about the system to force them into court proceedings to prove any allegations of neglect that they had put forward.

Maybe in her small way, the only idea's they could come up with was to fake a dissapearence in the hope that everyone would leave them alone for-ever.

It's very well to scoff at what i have just said if you are learned enough to read and understand the labour Party Manifesto. Sadly, in this country, 50% approx of our population can not barely read or write. These people are taken for mugs by the system because they may not have any help dealing with the authoritie's that you or i would deal with in an instance.

If my propositions turn out to be true, then shame on the police for not using discretion and some common sense again.

It sounds a little like they have jumped in on this case, made the arrests and the accusations without actually having any bloody evidence as per usual.

The police are then left shamed face because the case has gone high profile in the national press and rather than lose face, they scrape whatever they can together to nail them for some-thing.



Amen
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Post by spot »

That all sounds dismally likely.

The thread's starter is around somewhere, perhaps he'd like to grace us with his current opinion. Are we still hoping to cripple people for life in some maximum security prison, you vindictive old sod?
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

spot;1025002 wrote: That all sounds dismally likely.

The thread's starter is around somewhere, perhaps he'd like to grace us with his current opinion. Are we still hoping to cripple people for life in some maximum security prison, you vindictive old sod?


Yes, where are you indeed? You put this thread on, so let's be hearing you.

Let us not forget also, how the police tip off the gutter press with any old garbage they want to, in order to justify their actions.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Still no sign of the thread Starter Spot!!

:yh_wait:yh_wait:yh_wait:yh_wait:yh_wait
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Post by spot »

oscar;1027900 wrote: Still no sign of the thread Starter Spot!!

:yh_wait:yh_wait:yh_wait:yh_wait:yh_wait


He's around.

The case started on schedule.

BBC NEWS | England | West Yorkshire | Missing Shannon 'drugged' in flat describes the prosecution's case.

The thread started, if I remember, with "vile paedophile pervert".

Mr Grumpy hoped that "the vile paedophile pervert who abucted shannon is jailed for life and spends the rest of his days rotting in wakefield maxium security prison with the added bonus of a good hiding or two from fellow cons and staff".

It just goes to show how evidence weighs more than ranting prejudice. The case itself will be interesting to follow, I've no idea what the defence has to offer. It would be nice if the police were pushing a load of rubbish but it's all too likely they're not this time.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

As more and more is revealed into the kidnapping of 'Shannon Matthews', i ask, in light of the henoius crime on our streets... What mother would do this??

Video: Shannon Matthews 'drugged as part of mother's wicked kidnap plot' - Times Online
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spot;1055248 wrote: He's around.

The case started on schedule.

BBC NEWS | England | West Yorkshire | Missing Shannon 'drugged' in flat describes the prosecution's case.

The thread started, if I remember, with "vile paedophile pervert".

Mr Grumpy hoped that "the vile paedophile pervert who abucted shannon is jailed for life and spends the rest of his days rotting in wakefield maxium security prison with the added bonus of a good hiding or two from fellow cons and staff".

It just goes to show how evidence weighs more than ranting prejudice. The case itself will be interesting to follow, I've no idea what the defence has to offer. It would be nice if the police were pushing a load of rubbish but it's all to likely they're not this time.


That's a co-incidence, i have justed started a new thread with a link from the Telegraph from the trial. (On Chit Chat)
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Post by spot »

oscar;1055257 wrote: That's a co-incidence, i have justed started a new thread with a link from the Telegraph from the trial. (On Chit Chat)


I merged it here to keep it all in one place if that's okay.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

spot;1055258 wrote: I merged it here to keep it all in one place if that's okay.


Let's just see if our poster arrives???
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Post by spot »

oscar;1055261 wrote: Let's just see if our poster arrives???


You ask "What mother would do this" and the simple answer is that none would, since the entire prosecution case so far is a logical impossibility. To claim the reward Shannon would have had to be handed over. She'd be questioned on her whereabouts, drug tests would have been performed just as they have been. Nobody - however insanely thick, even in Dewsbury - could believe for a moment that such a plan might win them a reward. It's why I'm waiting to hear the defence case and to see the jury's verdict.

I'll be quite surprised if either of the two of them are found guilty of these accusations. Without wanting to guess too far, I'd have thought it a lot more likely that the two of them were trying in a completely hare-brained fashion to protect the girl from her step-dad while not endangering her mother. The police couldn't avoid bringing a prosecution, what you've read in the paper today is the best prosecution case they could cobble together. If it were true it would obviously be outrageous. The jury will tell you whether it was or not.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

spot;1055266 wrote: You ask "What mother would do this" and the simple answer is that none would, since the entire prosecution case so far is a logical impossibility. To claim the reward Shannon would have had to be handed over. She'd be questioned on her whereabouts, drug tests would have been performed just as they have been. Nobody - however insanely thick, even in Dewsbury - could believe for a moment that such a plan might win them a reward. It's why I'm waiting to hear the defence case and to see the jury's verdict.

I'll be quite surprised if either of the two of them are found guilty of these accusations. Without wanting to guess too far, I'd have thought it a lot more likely that the two of them were trying in a completely hare-brained fashion to protect the girl from her step-dad while not endangering her mother. The police couldn't avoid bringing a prosecution, what you've read in the paper today is the best prosecution case they could cobble together. If it were true it would obviously be outrageous. The jury will tell you whether it was or not.
Yes, i tend to agree. I put the comment as a new thread to get the debate going and to trap our poster?? but as i said earlier in this thread, it will be very interesting to hear the defence.
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So, is this trial big news over there, similar to an OJ, Britney custody or Peterson trial here?

Just trying to get a feel for it...:thinking:
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Post by spot »

flopstock;1055315 wrote: So, is this trial big news over there, similar to an OJ, Britney custody or Peterson trial here?

Just trying to get a feel for it...:thinking:


An eight year old girl went missing for three weeks at the start of the year.

The press was hysterical. The police took the home computer and ended up jailing the guy living with her mother for a month or so for having a topless photo over a 15 year old on his cellphone and - presumably equivalent, given the one month sentence - child porn on his computer. The police finally stumbled on the girl at her uncle's house a mile from her own home, being hidden in a cupboard, obviously not sexually molested or that would be a major charge at this stage. The girl herself had been telling her schoolmates she was going to run away from home, earlier in the week that she disappeared.

This was all six months back. The police have finally brought the mother and uncle to court on kidnapping charges claiming the two of them were after raising a big reward and then claiming it themselves.

Nobody hurt, big circus, huge loss of face on the part of the local police and they're trying to get their own back. The dictionary doesn't have words adequate to express the degree of ineptitude they displayed in failing to uncover her for an entire three weeks.
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