What would you do with this one?
LAUDERHILL, Florida (AP) -- A 12-year-old boy beat a toddler to death with a baseball bat because she was crying while he was trying to watch TV, authorities said.
The boy, who was not identified, was arrested Saturday on first-degree murder charges, Lauderhill police spokesman Lt. Mike Cochran said.
He was arraigned in juvenile court Sunday and remained in custody, but it was not clear if he had an attorney or if anyone else would be charged in the girl's death.
Cochran said the boy confessed to authorities that he was home alone Friday baby-sitting a 10-year-old girl and the 17-month-old girl and became angry when the toddler began to cry. The relationship between the three was not clear.
At some point, an adult called 911. The girl, Shaloh Joseph, was rushed to a hospital where she was pronounced dead of blunt force trauma to the head, Cochran said.
The Miami Herald identified the boy's mother as Guerla Joseph. A telephone listing for a Guerla Joseph in Fort Lauderdale had been disconnected.
The case is not the first in Florida where a boy so young has been charged in the death of a child. Lionel Tate was 12 when he beat and stomped to death a playmate half his age in Florida.
At the time, Tate was the youngest person in modern U.S. history to receive a life prison sentence. His attorneys initially said he accidentally killed 6-year-old Tiffany Eunick in 1999 while imitating pro wrestling moves.
Tate was convicted as an adult of first-degree murder, but the conviction was thrown out in 2004, and Tate pleaded guilty to a lesser charge.
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
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RedGlitter
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History buff
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12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
RG, at what age would you allow a juvenile to be prosecuted for murder as an adult??
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RedGlitter
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12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
History buff;754664 wrote: RG, at what age would you allow a juvenile to be prosecuted for murder as an adult??
That would have to depend on the circumstances of the killing. I am unable to offer a specific age for you but I'll go as far as saying I do not generally object to kids being tried for murder. In this case? Definitely. A 12 year old knows what's going to happen if he beats a baby repeatedly with a baseball bat. It's ridiculous to pretend he doesn't have the wherewithal to understand that or to understand what he did was wrong.
That would have to depend on the circumstances of the killing. I am unable to offer a specific age for you but I'll go as far as saying I do not generally object to kids being tried for murder. In this case? Definitely. A 12 year old knows what's going to happen if he beats a baby repeatedly with a baseball bat. It's ridiculous to pretend he doesn't have the wherewithal to understand that or to understand what he did was wrong.
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History buff
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12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
RedGlitter;754667 wrote: That would have to depend on the circumstances of the killing. I am unable to offer a specific age for you but I'll go as far as saying I do not generally object to kids being tried for murder. In this case? Definitely. A 12 year old knows what's going to happen if he beats a baby repeatedly with a baseball bat. It's ridiculous to pretend he doesn't have the wherewithal to understand that or to understand what he did was wrong.
The lowest age I have seen by law in any state is 14.
The lowest age I have seen by law in any state is 14.
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RedGlitter
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12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
I think 14 is acceptable.
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lemon_and_mint
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12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
maybe the child wanted to watch tv in peace, poor kid.
It isn't right to force a child of that age - a boy - which is less mature than a girk of that age - to babysit 2 other children.
It isn't right to force a child of that age - a boy - which is less mature than a girk of that age - to babysit 2 other children.
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
RG, do you think its also acceptable to kill any animal if they kill a human being? See by saying you think it acceptable to put children to death from age 14 for murder etc..surely if an animal kills, they should also suffer the same fate or would you be putting the dog owners on trial/death penalty..In which case why is it different for a child than a dog? Im not picking here, just trying to understand where your coming from hun as I just dont understand your reasoning for the death penalty.
Personally my opinion is @ 12 years old that KID is not reponsible enough to look after two children. In the uk, under 14 years must be looked after under an adults supervison as they are deemed too immature before that age. My daughter is 10 in feb and I cant envisage her in two years time being mature enough to look after another child and a baby. To put a child in that position is wrong.
Of course what he did was wrong but you cant go killing him for someone elses stupidity, if he wasnt put in that position he well may grow up to be a fine young citizen and run for president one day, who knows??
This is why the death penalty is wrong and im glad we dont have it here in the UK. Loads and loads of people in the UK have been wrongly imprisoned for crimes they didnt commit, unfortunately alot dont recover from being subjected to the prison system but at least they wern't murdered for something they didnt commit.
Yes the youth culture of today is soaring out of control and the authorities need to stamp this out quick but not by murdering the children.
Personally my opinion is @ 12 years old that KID is not reponsible enough to look after two children. In the uk, under 14 years must be looked after under an adults supervison as they are deemed too immature before that age. My daughter is 10 in feb and I cant envisage her in two years time being mature enough to look after another child and a baby. To put a child in that position is wrong.
Of course what he did was wrong but you cant go killing him for someone elses stupidity, if he wasnt put in that position he well may grow up to be a fine young citizen and run for president one day, who knows??
This is why the death penalty is wrong and im glad we dont have it here in the UK. Loads and loads of people in the UK have been wrongly imprisoned for crimes they didnt commit, unfortunately alot dont recover from being subjected to the prison system but at least they wern't murdered for something they didnt commit.
Yes the youth culture of today is soaring out of control and the authorities need to stamp this out quick but not by murdering the children.
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
lemon_and_mint;754692 wrote: maybe the child wanted to watch tv in peace, poor kid.
Yea. Ya know?
Transformers is really a good show.
Or do you think he was watching the primary debates?
Yea. Ya know?
Transformers is really a good show.
Or do you think he was watching the primary debates?
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lemon_and_mint
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12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
JacksDad;754706 wrote: Yea. Ya know?
Transformers is really a good show.
Or do you think he was watching the primary debates?
as your username suggests, you have a child of your own, you are not going to tell me that you wouldnt know how your child reacts to -
- watching his favourite tv show, does he ask for quiet?You would know if that show was on at the time you left the house
- the younger child, has he shown bad behaviour towards it before?
the parents must be to blame.
Transformers is really a good show.
Or do you think he was watching the primary debates?
as your username suggests, you have a child of your own, you are not going to tell me that you wouldnt know how your child reacts to -
- watching his favourite tv show, does he ask for quiet?You would know if that show was on at the time you left the house
- the younger child, has he shown bad behaviour towards it before?
the parents must be to blame.
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lemon_and_mint
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12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
look at the age gap there -
12 to under two.
when i hear of parents of children over 8 having another baby the only thing i feel is sympathy for the older children, who never asked for a screaming baby to interrupt their sleep, their playing, their lives, but they had it forced on them anyway.
12 to under two.
when i hear of parents of children over 8 having another baby the only thing i feel is sympathy for the older children, who never asked for a screaming baby to interrupt their sleep, their playing, their lives, but they had it forced on them anyway.
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
This is the perfect example of the thread... Are some people basically evil.
The 12 year old is a monster. Not a kind cell in his whole body.
It doesnt matter that he was left to babysit. Fine, those adults were idiots...
But this was the monsters solution? Actually? He should be exterminated. Of course being a civilized society, we will not do that. But then he needs to be locked away for a very long time, and then monitored for the rest of his life,
My thinking is that he will kill again. Someday, somewhere... whenever he gets angry, or pissed off, or inconvienienced. I know my response is cold, and I thank God Im not his mother. But if we stopped ***** footing around, and became a society where there was something to fear... maybe some of these atrcities would end. This makes me sick. This is why I dont read newspapers or have TV. Reports like these make it seem like life is not worth living. Too sad.
The 12 year old is a monster. Not a kind cell in his whole body.
It doesnt matter that he was left to babysit. Fine, those adults were idiots...
But this was the monsters solution? Actually? He should be exterminated. Of course being a civilized society, we will not do that. But then he needs to be locked away for a very long time, and then monitored for the rest of his life,
My thinking is that he will kill again. Someday, somewhere... whenever he gets angry, or pissed off, or inconvienienced. I know my response is cold, and I thank God Im not his mother. But if we stopped ***** footing around, and became a society where there was something to fear... maybe some of these atrcities would end. This makes me sick. This is why I dont read newspapers or have TV. Reports like these make it seem like life is not worth living. Too sad.
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12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
lemon_and_mint;754708 wrote: look at the age gap there -
12 to under two.
when i hear of parents of children over 8 having another baby the only thing i feel is sympathy for the older children, who never asked for a screaming baby to interrupt their sleep, their playing, their lives, but they had it forced on them anyway.
well their is also another way of looking at it....Having a beautiful baby brother or sister enriching their life and being able to watch it grow and have a hand in its upbringing. Most older siblings actually are more mature in their outlook of their new sibling and dont see it as rivalry as maybe my two girls do as their is only 18 months difference in their age. They argue over everything and anything and as they are close in age they can be quite jealous of each other.
This cant be pinpointed to how long a gap is left between siblings, its just basic parenting that needs to be addressed. You dont leave kids looking after kids.
Your saying they have to put up with a baby crying and stopping them sleep but its actually quite a well known fact that most second, third babies sleep through the night and are usually better sleepers than the first child, not always but mostly. Most second babies have to just blend in with the family routine thats already in place so no real distruption other that another beautiful human being being nurtered into the world.
12 to under two.
when i hear of parents of children over 8 having another baby the only thing i feel is sympathy for the older children, who never asked for a screaming baby to interrupt their sleep, their playing, their lives, but they had it forced on them anyway.
well their is also another way of looking at it....Having a beautiful baby brother or sister enriching their life and being able to watch it grow and have a hand in its upbringing. Most older siblings actually are more mature in their outlook of their new sibling and dont see it as rivalry as maybe my two girls do as their is only 18 months difference in their age. They argue over everything and anything and as they are close in age they can be quite jealous of each other.
This cant be pinpointed to how long a gap is left between siblings, its just basic parenting that needs to be addressed. You dont leave kids looking after kids.
Your saying they have to put up with a baby crying and stopping them sleep but its actually quite a well known fact that most second, third babies sleep through the night and are usually better sleepers than the first child, not always but mostly. Most second babies have to just blend in with the family routine thats already in place so no real distruption other that another beautiful human being being nurtered into the world.
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RedGlitter
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12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
Chezzie;754704 wrote: RG, do you think its also acceptable to kill any animal if they kill a human being? See by saying you think it acceptable to put children to death from age 14 for murder etc..surely if an animal kills, they should also suffer the same fate or would you be putting the dog owners on trial/death penalty..In which case why is it different for a child than a dog?
Im not picking here, just trying to understand where your coming from hun as I just dont understand your reasoning for the death penalty.
Personally my opinion is @ 12 years old that KID is not reponsible enough to look after two children. In the uk, under 14 years must be looked after under an adults supervison as they are deemed too immature before that age. My daughter is 10 in feb and I cant envisage her in two years time being mature enough to look after another child and a baby. To put a child in that position is wrong.
Of course what he did was wrong but you cant go killing him for someone elses stupidity, if he wasnt put in that position he well may grow up to be a fine young citizen and run for president one day, who knows??
This is why the death penalty is wrong and im glad we dont have it here in the UK. Loads and loads of people in the UK have been wrongly imprisoned for crimes they didnt commit, unfortunately alot dont recover from being subjected to the prison system but at least they wern't murdered for something they didnt commit.
Yes the youth culture of today is soaring out of control and the authorities need to stamp this out quick but not by murdering the children.
Are you serious? No, I don't believe in killing animals unless they are rabid. I'm not quite sure where you're coming from, but I think you're trying to tell me that a 12 y.o has the same mental faculties as a dog? I don't know how I can begin to answer that because the two do not compare.
12 years of age is old enough to know about killing and death. If a 12 y/o doesn't know that whacking a defenseless baby with a baseball bat is going to possibly kill him, then that must be one damned stupid kid.
I disagree that leaving a 12 year old in charge of babysitting for two little kids is wrong. I was a babysitter from the time I was ten years old. Ten may be a little young for most kids but I don't think 12 would be.
The thing that keeps cropping up in these discussions is the lack of adults willing to attribute responsibility to kids. Do we protect them until they're 17 and then start teaching them responsibility? How about accounting for one's actions? Does that come into play at all?
Ideally nobody would be put to death but I think a kid beating to death a toddler is warrant enough for death. That kid's a bad seed and who knows what he'll pull as an adult when someone cuts him off in traffic or he gets fired from his job?
My reasoning for the death penalty can be summed up thus: a life for a life. This is what I believe in.
Im not picking here, just trying to understand where your coming from hun as I just dont understand your reasoning for the death penalty.
Personally my opinion is @ 12 years old that KID is not reponsible enough to look after two children. In the uk, under 14 years must be looked after under an adults supervison as they are deemed too immature before that age. My daughter is 10 in feb and I cant envisage her in two years time being mature enough to look after another child and a baby. To put a child in that position is wrong.
Of course what he did was wrong but you cant go killing him for someone elses stupidity, if he wasnt put in that position he well may grow up to be a fine young citizen and run for president one day, who knows??
This is why the death penalty is wrong and im glad we dont have it here in the UK. Loads and loads of people in the UK have been wrongly imprisoned for crimes they didnt commit, unfortunately alot dont recover from being subjected to the prison system but at least they wern't murdered for something they didnt commit.
Yes the youth culture of today is soaring out of control and the authorities need to stamp this out quick but not by murdering the children.
Are you serious? No, I don't believe in killing animals unless they are rabid. I'm not quite sure where you're coming from, but I think you're trying to tell me that a 12 y.o has the same mental faculties as a dog? I don't know how I can begin to answer that because the two do not compare.
12 years of age is old enough to know about killing and death. If a 12 y/o doesn't know that whacking a defenseless baby with a baseball bat is going to possibly kill him, then that must be one damned stupid kid.
I disagree that leaving a 12 year old in charge of babysitting for two little kids is wrong. I was a babysitter from the time I was ten years old. Ten may be a little young for most kids but I don't think 12 would be.
The thing that keeps cropping up in these discussions is the lack of adults willing to attribute responsibility to kids. Do we protect them until they're 17 and then start teaching them responsibility? How about accounting for one's actions? Does that come into play at all?
Ideally nobody would be put to death but I think a kid beating to death a toddler is warrant enough for death. That kid's a bad seed and who knows what he'll pull as an adult when someone cuts him off in traffic or he gets fired from his job?
My reasoning for the death penalty can be summed up thus: a life for a life. This is what I believe in.
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
weeder;754710 wrote: This is the perfect example of the thread... Are some people basically evil.
The 12 year old is a monster. Not a kind cell in his whole body.
It doesnt matter that he was left to babysit. Fine, those adults were idiots...
But this was the monsters solution? Actually? He should be exterminated. Of course being a civilized society, we will not do that. But then he needs to be locked away for a very long time, and then monitored for the rest of his life,
My thinking is that he will kill again. Someday, somewhere... whenever he gets angry, or pissed off, or inconvienienced. I know my response is cold, and I thank God Im not his mother. But if we stopped ***** footing around, and became a society where there was something to fear... maybe some of these atrcities would end. This makes me sick. This is why I dont read newspapers or have TV. Reports like these make it seem like life is not worth living. Too sad.
Maybe you have more information on this child then Weeder, I was just going on the OP and as their wasnt any personal info I couldnt delve into his background. Whats the word in America then, has this boy being violent before?
The 12 year old is a monster. Not a kind cell in his whole body.
It doesnt matter that he was left to babysit. Fine, those adults were idiots...
But this was the monsters solution? Actually? He should be exterminated. Of course being a civilized society, we will not do that. But then he needs to be locked away for a very long time, and then monitored for the rest of his life,
My thinking is that he will kill again. Someday, somewhere... whenever he gets angry, or pissed off, or inconvienienced. I know my response is cold, and I thank God Im not his mother. But if we stopped ***** footing around, and became a society where there was something to fear... maybe some of these atrcities would end. This makes me sick. This is why I dont read newspapers or have TV. Reports like these make it seem like life is not worth living. Too sad.
Maybe you have more information on this child then Weeder, I was just going on the OP and as their wasnt any personal info I couldnt delve into his background. Whats the word in America then, has this boy being violent before?
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
RedGlitter;754713 wrote: Are you serious? No, I don't believe in killing animals unless they are rabid. I'm not quite sure where you're coming from, but I think you're trying to tell me that a 12 y.o has the same mental faculties as a dog? I don't know how I can begin to answer that because the two do not compare.
12 years of age is old enough to know about killing and death. If a 12 y/o doesn't know that whacking a defenseless baby with a baseball bat is going to possibly kill him, then that must be one damned stupid kid.
I disagree that leaving a 12 year old in charge of babysitting for two little kids is wrong. I was a babysitter from the time I was ten years old. Ten may be a little young for most kids but I don't think 12 would be.
The thing that keeps cropping up in these discussions is the lack of adults willing to attribute responsibility to kids. Do we protect them until they're 17 and then start teaching them responsibility? How about accounting for one's actions? Does that come into play at all?
Ideally nobody would be put to death but I think a kid beating to death a toddler is warrant enough for death. That kid's a bad seed and who knows what he'll pull as an adult when someone cuts him off in traffic or he gets fired from his job?
My reasoning for the death penalty can be summed up thus: a life for a life. This is what I believe in.
No hun I wasnt implying that a 12 y.o has the same mental faculties as a dog. I was trying to see what was the difference between you saying this kid should be murdered for killing but if it was a dog who killed that baby, would you be blaming the parent etc as you wouldnt put a dog down as you have just said unless it was rabid...
I dont believe in a life for a life so I guess we'll agree to disagree:-6
12 years of age is old enough to know about killing and death. If a 12 y/o doesn't know that whacking a defenseless baby with a baseball bat is going to possibly kill him, then that must be one damned stupid kid.
I disagree that leaving a 12 year old in charge of babysitting for two little kids is wrong. I was a babysitter from the time I was ten years old. Ten may be a little young for most kids but I don't think 12 would be.
The thing that keeps cropping up in these discussions is the lack of adults willing to attribute responsibility to kids. Do we protect them until they're 17 and then start teaching them responsibility? How about accounting for one's actions? Does that come into play at all?
Ideally nobody would be put to death but I think a kid beating to death a toddler is warrant enough for death. That kid's a bad seed and who knows what he'll pull as an adult when someone cuts him off in traffic or he gets fired from his job?
My reasoning for the death penalty can be summed up thus: a life for a life. This is what I believe in.
No hun I wasnt implying that a 12 y.o has the same mental faculties as a dog. I was trying to see what was the difference between you saying this kid should be murdered for killing but if it was a dog who killed that baby, would you be blaming the parent etc as you wouldnt put a dog down as you have just said unless it was rabid...
I dont believe in a life for a life so I guess we'll agree to disagree:-6
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
Chezzie;754712 wrote: well their is also another way of looking at it....Having a beautiful baby brother or sister enriching their life and being able to watch it grow and have a hand in its upbringing. Most older siblings actually are more mature in their outlook of their new sibling and dont see it as rivalry as maybe my two girls do as their is only 18 months difference in their age. They argue over everything and anything and as they are close in age they can be quite jealous of each other.
This cant be pinpointed to how long a gap is left between siblings, its just basic parenting that needs to be addressed. You dont leave kids looking after kids.
Your saying they have to put up with a baby crying and stopping them sleep but its actually quite a well known fact that most second, third babies sleep through the night and are usually better sleepers than the first child, not always but mostly. Most second babies have to just blend in with the family routine thats already in place so no real distruption other that another beautiful human being being nurtered into the world.
My God Chezzie... jealousy, kids looking after kids, how long babies sleep?
I guess when my children were young, if one of them took a shorter nap, and interrupted my nap.... I should have beaten them to death? I would have been in the gas chamber in the blink of an eye. As we speak there are thousands of incompetent parents who have left children with children. There arent 6 newspaper articles reporting one child killing another. No, this is a very Special boy.
This cant be pinpointed to how long a gap is left between siblings, its just basic parenting that needs to be addressed. You dont leave kids looking after kids.
Your saying they have to put up with a baby crying and stopping them sleep but its actually quite a well known fact that most second, third babies sleep through the night and are usually better sleepers than the first child, not always but mostly. Most second babies have to just blend in with the family routine thats already in place so no real distruption other that another beautiful human being being nurtered into the world.
My God Chezzie... jealousy, kids looking after kids, how long babies sleep?
I guess when my children were young, if one of them took a shorter nap, and interrupted my nap.... I should have beaten them to death? I would have been in the gas chamber in the blink of an eye. As we speak there are thousands of incompetent parents who have left children with children. There arent 6 newspaper articles reporting one child killing another. No, this is a very Special boy.
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lemon_and_mint
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12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
you have only to look at the numbers of adults who have snapped and beaten a screaming child to death -
here we are talking about a very young child, probably without the knowledge of what to do with a crying toddler and how to stop them screaming, probably he just wanted the screaming to stop and did what he felt he needed to do to stop it.
While that doesnt make his actions right in any way, i think it has to be looked at - WHY was he in that situation in the first place?
Was this a regular thing that he was left with those children?If so, this sense of wanting to be free of the situation was probably building momentum for a long time.
If the parents reglarly left the children, and perhaps beat the boy, was he only copying his parents?
There is so much not said in the original article.
here we are talking about a very young child, probably without the knowledge of what to do with a crying toddler and how to stop them screaming, probably he just wanted the screaming to stop and did what he felt he needed to do to stop it.
While that doesnt make his actions right in any way, i think it has to be looked at - WHY was he in that situation in the first place?
Was this a regular thing that he was left with those children?If so, this sense of wanting to be free of the situation was probably building momentum for a long time.
If the parents reglarly left the children, and perhaps beat the boy, was he only copying his parents?
There is so much not said in the original article.
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
Chezzie;754715 wrote: Maybe you have more information on this child then Weeder, I was just going on the OP and as their wasnt any personal info I couldnt delve into his background. Whats the word in America then, has this boy being violent before?
Im sorry... but when my brain remembers Ted Bundy slaughtering, and torturing countless young female co eds... I feel physically ill. He tortured small animals, as a young boy. In the wake of all the deaths, psychologists said ( as they always do) that his early behavior was an indicator of what he would do as an adult. Sociopaths. They walk among us, undetected for years. My brain cannott wrap around one excuse for the beating of a small child. Its good that he revealed himself now. Sadly, it took a life. But perhaps we will be able to stop him from killing again.
Im sorry... but when my brain remembers Ted Bundy slaughtering, and torturing countless young female co eds... I feel physically ill. He tortured small animals, as a young boy. In the wake of all the deaths, psychologists said ( as they always do) that his early behavior was an indicator of what he would do as an adult. Sociopaths. They walk among us, undetected for years. My brain cannott wrap around one excuse for the beating of a small child. Its good that he revealed himself now. Sadly, it took a life. But perhaps we will be able to stop him from killing again.
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lemon_and_mint
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12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
something is a little odd with that story, there was a ten year old present as well, but the ten year olds witness statement was not given.
just suppose that it was an adult who did it and blamed the child?
anyway, why was there a baseball bat so conveniently to hand if this was a spur of the moment killing?You would expect him to attack the child with his bare hands as he watched tv.
I think there is more to it the more i think about it.
just suppose that it was an adult who did it and blamed the child?
anyway, why was there a baseball bat so conveniently to hand if this was a spur of the moment killing?You would expect him to attack the child with his bare hands as he watched tv.
I think there is more to it the more i think about it.
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
RedGlitter;754713 wrote:
My reasoning for the death penalty can be summed up thus: a life for a life. This is what I believe in.
I cannot wrap my head around the fact that you believe this for humans, yet only rabid dogs should be put down.
weeder;754710 wrote: This is the perfect example of the thread... Are some people basically evil.
The 12 year old is a monster. Not a kind cell in his whole body.
It doesnt matter that he was left to babysit. Fine, those adults were idiots...
But this was the monsters solution? Actually? He should be exterminated. Of course being a civilized society, we will not do that. But then he needs to be locked away for a very long time, and then monitored for the rest of his life,
My thinking is that he will kill again. Someday, somewhere... whenever he gets angry, or pissed off, or inconvienienced. I know my response is cold, and I thank God Im not his mother. But if we stopped ***** footing around, and became a society where there was something to fear... maybe some of these atrcities would end. This makes me sick. This is why I dont read newspapers or have TV. Reports like these make it seem like life is not worth living. Too sad.
I think you have the best conclusion. This kid had issues to do something like this. Whether it be he was a just an evil kid, or had anger issues. Something was not right with this kid to just snap like that.
lemon_and_mint;754708 wrote: look at the age gap there -
12 to under two.
when i hear of parents of children over 8 having another baby the only thing i feel is sympathy for the older children, who never asked for a screaming baby to interrupt their sleep, their playing, their lives, but they had it forced on them anyway.
Age gap has nothing to do with this. Weeder's right there's just something wrong with this kid.
My reasoning for the death penalty can be summed up thus: a life for a life. This is what I believe in.
I cannot wrap my head around the fact that you believe this for humans, yet only rabid dogs should be put down.
weeder;754710 wrote: This is the perfect example of the thread... Are some people basically evil.
The 12 year old is a monster. Not a kind cell in his whole body.
It doesnt matter that he was left to babysit. Fine, those adults were idiots...
But this was the monsters solution? Actually? He should be exterminated. Of course being a civilized society, we will not do that. But then he needs to be locked away for a very long time, and then monitored for the rest of his life,
My thinking is that he will kill again. Someday, somewhere... whenever he gets angry, or pissed off, or inconvienienced. I know my response is cold, and I thank God Im not his mother. But if we stopped ***** footing around, and became a society where there was something to fear... maybe some of these atrcities would end. This makes me sick. This is why I dont read newspapers or have TV. Reports like these make it seem like life is not worth living. Too sad.
I think you have the best conclusion. This kid had issues to do something like this. Whether it be he was a just an evil kid, or had anger issues. Something was not right with this kid to just snap like that.
lemon_and_mint;754708 wrote: look at the age gap there -
12 to under two.
when i hear of parents of children over 8 having another baby the only thing i feel is sympathy for the older children, who never asked for a screaming baby to interrupt their sleep, their playing, their lives, but they had it forced on them anyway.
Age gap has nothing to do with this. Weeder's right there's just something wrong with this kid.
"Girls are crazy! I'm not ever getting married, I can make my own sandwiches!"
my son
my son
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
lemon_and_mint;754708 wrote: look at the age gap there -
12 to under two.
when i hear of parents of children over 8 having another baby the only thing i feel is sympathy for the older children, who never asked for a screaming baby to interrupt their sleep, their playing, their lives, but they had it forced on them anyway.
My step-daughters were 9 and 11 when I had my daughter. They were so happy about her being born, they were and are brilliant sisters to her. I made every effort to ensure that a baby crying in the middle of the night didn't disrupt their sleep, especially on a school night. I don't think the age gap is relevant in this case. The boy is obviously not right, his response to a crying child is extreme.
I don't agree with children of 12 babysitting for the simple reason that they are too young to take responsibility for a toddler or baby in an emergency. They might be sensible and able to do the day to day things but when things go wrong it isn't fair to make them have to cope.
12 to under two.
when i hear of parents of children over 8 having another baby the only thing i feel is sympathy for the older children, who never asked for a screaming baby to interrupt their sleep, their playing, their lives, but they had it forced on them anyway.
My step-daughters were 9 and 11 when I had my daughter. They were so happy about her being born, they were and are brilliant sisters to her. I made every effort to ensure that a baby crying in the middle of the night didn't disrupt their sleep, especially on a school night. I don't think the age gap is relevant in this case. The boy is obviously not right, his response to a crying child is extreme.
I don't agree with children of 12 babysitting for the simple reason that they are too young to take responsibility for a toddler or baby in an emergency. They might be sensible and able to do the day to day things but when things go wrong it isn't fair to make them have to cope.
Originally Posted by spot
She is one fit bitch innit, that Immy
Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time
She is one fit bitch innit, that Immy
Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
lemon_and_mint;754708 wrote: look at the age gap there -
12 to under two.
when i hear of parents of children over 8 having another baby the only thing i feel is sympathy for the older children, who never asked for a screaming baby to interrupt their sleep, their playing, their lives, but they had it forced on them anyway.
So, what you are really saying here is that you aren't just 'pro choice' you are 'pro abortion' for folks unfortunate enough to suffer the 'agegap'? I mean, for the sake of those older kids, of course!
12 to under two.
when i hear of parents of children over 8 having another baby the only thing i feel is sympathy for the older children, who never asked for a screaming baby to interrupt their sleep, their playing, their lives, but they had it forced on them anyway.
So, what you are really saying here is that you aren't just 'pro choice' you are 'pro abortion' for folks unfortunate enough to suffer the 'agegap'? I mean, for the sake of those older kids, of course!
Who are they to protest me? Who are they? Unless they've been me and been there and know what the hell they're yelling about!
:yh_glasse
rambo
:yh_glasse
rambo
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
lemon_and_mint;754725 wrote: something is a little odd with that story, there was a ten year old present as well, but the ten year olds witness statement was not given.
just suppose that it was an adult who did it and blamed the child?
anyway, why was there a baseball bat so conveniently to hand if this was a spur of the moment killing?You would expect him to attack the child with his bare hands as he watched tv.
I think there is more to it the more i think about it.
have you really thought about what you are saying here lemon? or is it that you don't have kids?:wah:
just suppose that it was an adult who did it and blamed the child?
anyway, why was there a baseball bat so conveniently to hand if this was a spur of the moment killing?You would expect him to attack the child with his bare hands as he watched tv.
I think there is more to it the more i think about it.
have you really thought about what you are saying here lemon? or is it that you don't have kids?:wah:
Who are they to protest me? Who are they? Unless they've been me and been there and know what the hell they're yelling about!
:yh_glasse
rambo
:yh_glasse
rambo
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lemon_and_mint
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12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
grh;754745 wrote: So, what you are really saying here is that you aren't just 'pro choice' you are 'pro abortion' for folks unfortunate enough to suffer the 'agegap'? I mean, for the sake of those older kids, of course!
i don't think i mentioned abortion, i said i was sympathetic to the other kids.
i don't think i mentioned abortion, i said i was sympathetic to the other kids.
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lemon_and_mint
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12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
grh;754746 wrote: have you really thought about what you are saying here lemon? or is it that you don't have kids?:wah:
no idea why that's a strange thing for me to say?
no idea why that's a strange thing for me to say?
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
I think 12 is too young to be left looking after a baby. I agree at 12 they should know difference between wrong and right, and that hitting someone on the head with a baseball bat can have fatal consequences. But sadly i also believe that no, some children dont know this, and even more sadly even older teenagers and yes adults dont seem to understand this. The reason i think this, is the fact that we have more and more cases here in England every day of people being clubbed or stabbed or even shot. Some kids are left mostly to fend for themselves and not taught any values at all. Not punished for bad behaviour when younger because some parents are too dam lazy. Their definition of punishment is to give the kid a good hiding, shout and bawl, hit them some more:mad: Thus children learn when you are annoyed or someone does something you dont like or deem as "naughty" hit them. Also i wonder if the violence that is allowed to be watched on tv, violent computer games etc. has anything to do with it? as in giving kids a false sense of what is real.
My Brother and his son were hit on the head with metal bars early hours of new years day, my brother is a big strong man, as is his son, but my brother was left unconcsious on the ground and my nephew had to have 8 stitches in the top of his head. These people dnt seem to realise they could have very easily killed them??
I honestly think something is not right with this child, its beyond my comprehension to believe he actually knew he would kill her and went ahead and did it. It saddens me actually. Saying that, i dont mean he should get away with what he has done, he should be made to understand how serious the consequences are, and punished most definately. But i certainly think someone needs to lok at why a 12 yr old would do something like this.
My Brother and his son were hit on the head with metal bars early hours of new years day, my brother is a big strong man, as is his son, but my brother was left unconcsious on the ground and my nephew had to have 8 stitches in the top of his head. These people dnt seem to realise they could have very easily killed them??
I honestly think something is not right with this child, its beyond my comprehension to believe he actually knew he would kill her and went ahead and did it. It saddens me actually. Saying that, i dont mean he should get away with what he has done, he should be made to understand how serious the consequences are, and punished most definately. But i certainly think someone needs to lok at why a 12 yr old would do something like this.
FOC THREAD PART1
In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
Martin Luther King Jr.
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RedGlitter
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12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
Sheryl;754733 wrote: I cannot wrap my head around the fact that you believe this for humans, yet only rabid dogs should be put down.
It's not hard. Dogs can't reason and make judgements. People can.
It's not hard. Dogs can't reason and make judgements. People can.
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pantsonfire321@aol.com
- Posts: 2920
- Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:26 am
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
I do believe in the Death penalty 100% but not for minors /kids. I think if the crime is very severe lock them up indefinitely . I believe some kids are born evil, look at the Bulger boys, theres no way they should of been let out so soon . I'd of liked to see them locked away for 20/30 /40 odd years for what they did to that baby boy . In my opinion most sentences are to soft . This crime sickens me because it could of been prevented , it's so very very sad.
Can go from 0 - to bitch in 3.0 seconds .
Smile people :yh_bigsmi
yep, this bitch bites back .
Smile people :yh_bigsmi
yep, this bitch bites back .
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
lemon_and_mint;754748 wrote: no idea why that's a strange thing for me to say?
It's one thing not to think before you speak but you're typing for gods sake.
Have you never heard of The Little League?
Children playing baseball?
Know what?
I think surfing should be banned.
I've never surfed in my life and know absolutely nothing of the sport or hobby and don't really care to.
But I don't like those surfer dude types.
Ban it. It's dangerous.
It's one thing not to think before you speak but you're typing for gods sake.
Have you never heard of The Little League?
Children playing baseball?
Know what?
I think surfing should be banned.
I've never surfed in my life and know absolutely nothing of the sport or hobby and don't really care to.
But I don't like those surfer dude types.
Ban it. It's dangerous.
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
RedGlitter;754779 wrote: It's not hard. Dogs can't reason and make judgements. People can.
I bet you that's the argument the kid's lawyer uses.
I bet you that's the argument the kid's lawyer uses.
"Girls are crazy! I'm not ever getting married, I can make my own sandwiches!"
my son
my son
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lemon_and_mint
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- Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:04 pm
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
JacksDad;754793 wrote: It's one thing not to think before you speak but you're typing for gods sake.
Have you never heard of The Little League?
Children playing baseball?
Know what?
I think surfing should be banned.
I've never surfed in my life and know absolutely nothing of the sport or hobby and don't really care to.
But I don't like those surfer dude types.
Ban it. It's dangerous.
i haven't heard of it, no.Must be an american thing.
Have you never heard of The Little League?
Children playing baseball?
Know what?
I think surfing should be banned.
I've never surfed in my life and know absolutely nothing of the sport or hobby and don't really care to.
But I don't like those surfer dude types.
Ban it. It's dangerous.
i haven't heard of it, no.Must be an american thing.
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WonderWendy3
- Posts: 12412
- Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:44 am
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
I have a son who has watched young children all of his life, and no matter what he was watching would HE ever hit a child, let alone with an hard object such as a baseball bat. All of my children for that matter, they have been brought up in a very loving and LOUD home...so if you don't like the noise...you fix it, but not with violence....
This child definately needs help, not put to death though. Sounds like this child has been exposed to a lot of violence and anger. There is hope for him, if people can function in today's society that has lived through wars after killing others, this child can re-cover from this horrible incident. I don't condone what he did or what people do at war. I am saying that he deserves a better life without the hostility and anger that he has been brought up in.....This is very very sad indeed!
This child definately needs help, not put to death though. Sounds like this child has been exposed to a lot of violence and anger. There is hope for him, if people can function in today's society that has lived through wars after killing others, this child can re-cover from this horrible incident. I don't condone what he did or what people do at war. I am saying that he deserves a better life without the hostility and anger that he has been brought up in.....This is very very sad indeed!
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
lemon_and_mint;754797 wrote: i haven't heard of it, no.Must be an american thing.
Hmm. What do they call that thing that they hit the ball with in cricket.
Oh yes. A bat.
Hmm. What do they call that thing that they hit the ball with in cricket.
Oh yes. A bat.
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lemon_and_mint
- Posts: 928
- Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:04 pm
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
JacksDad;754801 wrote: Hmm. What do they call that thing that they hit the ball with in cricket.
Oh yes. A bat.
not sure what your point is - they were talking about baseball, i've never known anyone who had a cricket bat just lying about ready to hit someone with either.
Oh yes. A bat.
not sure what your point is - they were talking about baseball, i've never known anyone who had a cricket bat just lying about ready to hit someone with either.
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lemon_and_mint
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12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
AngelEyes82;754804 wrote: You've never heard of baseball? Kids play baseball which is why there would be a bat in the house.
I agree that he was way to young to be babysitting a baby & what he did was extreme. Why couldn't he simply pick up the baby and place her in another room.. I know that sounds terrible but at least the poor baby would still be alive. I don't think he should get the death sentence BUT i certainly agree that he should spend a long long time in jail/prison for the crime. He's 12.. you know he knows right from wrong by now.. I am betting he knew there were other ways he could have kept the baby quiet but he turned to beating her to death. He's a sick child. I don't think this should be blamed on the parents. They obviously thought he was mature and capable of taking care of the toddler.
Red- you KNOW i love animals BUT if a dog kills a baby or anyone.. even another dog it should be put down. You have to put human safety first!
yes i have heard of baseball, i wondered why there was a baseball bat in the house - if all american children play baseball, then i can see why it is.
Not quite sure why it is necessary to attack me for not knowing that.
I agree that he was way to young to be babysitting a baby & what he did was extreme. Why couldn't he simply pick up the baby and place her in another room.. I know that sounds terrible but at least the poor baby would still be alive. I don't think he should get the death sentence BUT i certainly agree that he should spend a long long time in jail/prison for the crime. He's 12.. you know he knows right from wrong by now.. I am betting he knew there were other ways he could have kept the baby quiet but he turned to beating her to death. He's a sick child. I don't think this should be blamed on the parents. They obviously thought he was mature and capable of taking care of the toddler.
Red- you KNOW i love animals BUT if a dog kills a baby or anyone.. even another dog it should be put down. You have to put human safety first!
yes i have heard of baseball, i wondered why there was a baseball bat in the house - if all american children play baseball, then i can see why it is.
Not quite sure why it is necessary to attack me for not knowing that.
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lemon_and_mint
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12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
AngelEyes82;754808 wrote: Hunni i am not attacking you.. just seemed strange that you didn't know why there was a baseball bat in the house.
Its obviously a British/American cultural difference.
Its obviously a British/American cultural difference.
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RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
AngelEyes82;754804 wrote: He's 12.. you know he knows right from wrong by now.. I am betting he knew there were other ways he could have kept the baby quiet but he turned to beating her to death. He's a sick child. I don't think this should be blamed on the parents. They obviously thought he was mature and capable of taking care of the toddler.
Agreed.
Red- you KNOW i love animals BUT if a dog kills a baby or anyone.. even another dog it should be put down. You have to put human safety first!
We'll have to agree to differ on this one.
lemon_and_mint;754807 wrote: yes i have heard of baseball, i wondered why there was a baseball bat in the house - if all american children play baseball, then i can see why it is.
Not quite sure why it is necessary to attack me for not knowing that.
I'm not sure why either....JacksDad. It was uncalled for.
Agreed.
Red- you KNOW i love animals BUT if a dog kills a baby or anyone.. even another dog it should be put down. You have to put human safety first!
We'll have to agree to differ on this one.
lemon_and_mint;754807 wrote: yes i have heard of baseball, i wondered why there was a baseball bat in the house - if all american children play baseball, then i can see why it is.
Not quite sure why it is necessary to attack me for not knowing that.
I'm not sure why either....JacksDad. It was uncalled for.
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
That was an attack?
:yh_rotfl
That's like me saying that anytime someone who has never had children posts about how to raise them properly is baiting me.
:yh_rotfl
Get a grip.
:yh_rotfl
That's like me saying that anytime someone who has never had children posts about how to raise them properly is baiting me.
:yh_rotfl
Get a grip.
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
We have two baseball bats in our house. 
"Girls are crazy! I'm not ever getting married, I can make my own sandwiches!"
my son
my son
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
lemon_and_mint;754708 wrote: look at the age gap there -
12 to under two.
when i hear of parents of children over 8 having another baby the only thing i feel is sympathy for the older children, who never asked for a screaming baby to interrupt their sleep, their playing, their lives, but they had it forced on them anyway.
There's twelve years between our middle daughter and our youngest - the reaction we had from the three older children was pure delight and they've been spoiling her silly ever since.
12 to under two.
when i hear of parents of children over 8 having another baby the only thing i feel is sympathy for the older children, who never asked for a screaming baby to interrupt their sleep, their playing, their lives, but they had it forced on them anyway.
There's twelve years between our middle daughter and our youngest - the reaction we had from the three older children was pure delight and they've been spoiling her silly ever since.
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
lemon_and_mint;754748 wrote: no idea why that's a strange thing for me to say?
I think it's quite common for a twelve year old American boy to own at least one baseball bat.
I think it's quite common for a twelve year old American boy to own at least one baseball bat.
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
lemon_and_mint;754807 wrote: yes i have heard of baseball, i wondered why there was a baseball bat in the house - if all american children play baseball, then i can see why it is.
Not quite sure why it is necessary to attack me for not knowing that.
I for one am not attacking you lemon. Unfortunately for all of us here, the strangest things strike my funny bone at the most inappropriate times... like when kids are beating each other to death with baseball bats...
I really and truely enjoy your 'take' on stuff.
I just hope you don't find my bad manners too offputting:-4
Not quite sure why it is necessary to attack me for not knowing that.
I for one am not attacking you lemon. Unfortunately for all of us here, the strangest things strike my funny bone at the most inappropriate times... like when kids are beating each other to death with baseball bats...
I really and truely enjoy your 'take' on stuff.
I just hope you don't find my bad manners too offputting:-4
Who are they to protest me? Who are they? Unless they've been me and been there and know what the hell they're yelling about!
:yh_glasse
rambo
:yh_glasse
rambo
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
fuzzy butt;754881 wrote: I don't believe the uninformed crap I'm reading here.
In America they will try him as an adult and send him away to rot.
In Australia and Britain they'd try him as a child send him to an institution rehabilate and give intense phychological care and release him when he's eighteen or twenty one.
Did you know that America holds 85% of the worlds population of psychopathic killers .....................You have to wonder why that is.
Anyway, anyone who wants to send a child (and a 12 year old is a child simply by presenting brain delvepment of a twelve year old you prove he is a child.) to prison is the monster , not the child.
Aww. The hell with it.
Give him an overdose of Ritalin.
:sneaky:
In America they will try him as an adult and send him away to rot.
In Australia and Britain they'd try him as a child send him to an institution rehabilate and give intense phychological care and release him when he's eighteen or twenty one.
Did you know that America holds 85% of the worlds population of psychopathic killers .....................You have to wonder why that is.
Anyway, anyone who wants to send a child (and a 12 year old is a child simply by presenting brain delvepment of a twelve year old you prove he is a child.) to prison is the monster , not the child.
Aww. The hell with it.
Give him an overdose of Ritalin.
:sneaky:
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
JacksDad;754883 wrote: Aww. The hell with it.
Give him an overdose of Ritalin.
:sneaky:
Hmm. A number of members have mentioned that something is missing from this story.
Ya think they may be on to something?
Give him an overdose of Ritalin.
:sneaky:
Hmm. A number of members have mentioned that something is missing from this story.
Ya think they may be on to something?
12 Y/O Boy Beats Toddler to Death for Crying
RedGlitter;754822 wrote: .......
I'm not sure why either....JacksDad. It was uncalled for.
Nah, this is uncalled for IMO. Jacks just kidding around... my fault I am sure for finding anything funny in the posts to begin with..
Lemon needs to just reach out and knock jack upside the head(figuratively speaking of course):D
I'm not sure why either....JacksDad. It was uncalled for.
Nah, this is uncalled for IMO. Jacks just kidding around... my fault I am sure for finding anything funny in the posts to begin with..
Lemon needs to just reach out and knock jack upside the head(figuratively speaking of course):D
Who are they to protest me? Who are they? Unless they've been me and been there and know what the hell they're yelling about!
:yh_glasse
rambo
:yh_glasse
rambo