Restricting US Freedom of Speech for who else?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:50 pm

Israel, of course. A bipartisan bill in Congress seeks to criminalize boycotts of Israel with fines and imprisonment, as the so-called BDS movement passes its twelfth birthday, notes Lawrence Davidson. https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/31/s ... r-outrage/

But the ACLU was on it and apparently unlike the members of Congress who sponsored or co-sponsored the bill they actually read the thing.

THE LEAD AUTHOR of the controversial Israel Anti-Boycott Act, Democratic Sen. Ben Cardin of Maryland, is open to amending the legislation to address concerns raised by the American Civil Liberties Union, he told The Intercept Monday evening.

The ACLU warned last week that the measure, which targets the BDS movement, was unconstitutional and would have a chilling effect on free speech. In the wake of that warning, and a subsequent article by The Intercept, co-sponsors of the bill have begun to re-examine their support for it. https://theintercept.com/2017/07/25/car ... -bill-bds/

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:49 pm

Ahso!;1511325 wrote: Israel, of course. https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/31/s ... r-outrage/

But the ACLU was on it and apparently unlike the members of Congress who sponsored or co-sponsored the bill they actually read the thing.

https://theintercept.com/2017/07/25/car ... -bill-bds/

So it would also be illegal to decide not to buy Israeli oranges as that would be a boycott?

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:15 pm

Bryn Mawr;1511329 wrote: So it would also be illegal to decide not to buy Israeli oranges as that would be a boycott?

As I understand it, it would be illegal to hold a public demonstration or give a public speech urging a boycott.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:15 pm

What if you don't like oranges ?

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:18 pm

Bruv;1511331 wrote: What if you don't like oranges ?

Then don't buy them from Texas.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:27 pm

Here's the actual bill.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-con ... %5D%7D&r=1

It also appears to say that even supporting companies that support BDS is criminal.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:13 pm

States are crafting their own legislation as well.

Arizona: A new bill landed on Arizona Governor Doug Duceyâ€™s desk that, if signed, will bar state and local governments from doing business with companies or groups boycotting Israel. Bill Blacklisting Companies That Boycott Israel On Arizona Governor's Desk | Phoenix New Times

California: Israeli boycott blowback: California bill seeks to ban state contracts with pro-BDS companies https://www.rt.com/usa/335844-californi ... -bds-bill/

Kansas: Marjorie Robinow, owner of Israel Tradesource LLC, who has actively pushed for passage of a bill aimed at preventing the state from doing business with companies engaged in a boycott against Israel, was allowed on the Senate floor, where she spoke directly with Sen. Gene Suellentrop, R-Wichita, right, during floor debate on the bill, an apparent violation of Senate rules. Also present were Rep. William Sutton, left, R-Gardner, and David Soffer, director of research and marketing at the Kansas Department of Commerce. Kansas Senate advances bill barring vendors who boycott Israel; businesswoman allowed on Senate floor during debate / LJWorld.com

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:14 pm

ACLU argument

https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/ ... ent-rights

Washington Post argument

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol ... 1f6079d6eb

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:35 am

And all this time I was thinking the Saudis ran America. Looks like i was a bit wrong. ..... or was i?

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:46 am

This looks to me like a consequence of Trump's bad government. It's probably not something he's directly involved with but because he really is incompetent and has no idea what his job involves various interest groups are pushing their niche agendas, in the sure knowledge that the WH machine isn't even aware of what they are doing, let alone in control of its own legislative agenda: Politics abhors a vacuum.

I see Scaramucci has gone.

Trump seems to be looking into the possibilities of Presidential Pardons for himself and his family. They're starting to look like Papal Indulgences.

Over here brexit has the racists out and active. People I talk to say they are getting racist abuse for the first time in decades. Applications for nursing vacancies from overseas have plummeted so the shortage is getting worse, Airlines are shifting away and they won't be able to sell advance tickets soon because they need to know we'll have a Regulatory body of some kind in place which we don't. Jobs are leaving with the relocation of EU regulatory bodies out of the UK and with banks starting to open offices in Dublin and Frankfurt. The drop in the Â£ has led to a rise in prices generally since we import so much and food prices have leaped above that (or you're getting much less for the price).

Brexiters: responsible for more damage to the country than the Luftwaffe.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:56 am

I know this is going to sound nasty but maybe your nurses here could return to Britain and do their duty to their own country......just sayin. Might sure up some jobs for all our unemployed nurses?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:09 am

So.......The United Nations Human Rights Council resolution is not in step with America's opinion.

And the Paris Global warming agreement is not what America wants for it's own benefit.

Isn't that the definition of a pariah or rogue state ?

If America were my grandson I would stand him in the corner so he could consider his decisions.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:11 am

magentaflame;1511361 wrote: I know this is going to sound nasty but maybe your nurses here could return to Britain and do their duty to their own country......just sayin. Might sure up some jobs for all our unemployed nurses?

What about all your bar tenders ?

You can have them back if you want.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:13 am

Young Aussies and Kiwis who stay here for a few years spend what they earn having a good time and either set up successful businesses here or go home with a generally positive impression (always exceptions, of course). Why on earth would we want to stop that? There are plenty of our kids doing the same in Sydney, Melbourne, Auckland and similar, reinforcing the sense that - at least up to now - we had shared values as well as relatives in these places.

Brexit = madness.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:34 am

I don't see the problem.

Israel Anti-Boycott Act

This bill declares that Congress: (1) opposes the United Nations Human Rights Council resolution of March 24, 2016, which urges countries to pressure companies to divest from, or break contracts with, Israel; and (2) encourages full implementation of the United States-Israel Strategic Partnership Act of 2014 through enhanced, governmentwide, coordinated U.S.-Israel scientific and technological cooperation in civilian areas.

Reading further all it does is encourage fair trade with Israel as should be the case with any friend or alley.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:48 am

magentaflame;1511361 wrote: I know this is going to sound nasty but maybe your nurses here could return to Britain and do their duty to their own country......just sayin. Might sure up some jobs for all our unemployed nurses?
We would dearly like them back, but our Government only sees fit to pay our nurses a salary that is only attractive to Eastern European countries - and, according to the [Temorary] Chancellor, in getting that pittance, they are actually being overpaid.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:21 pm

tude dog;1511374 wrote: I don't see the problem

Reading further all it does is encourage fair trade with Israel as should be the case with any friend or alley.

So ALL the 46 other member countries of the United Nations Human Rights Council are wrong....................................and Israel and America are right ?

.

America disagrees with the 190 plus countries that global warming should be tackled too....................good job you have god on your side................nobody else seems to be.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:23 pm

I still remember when Australians boycotted South Africa over aparteid.

And boycotted France over the Rainbow Warriar affair.

Both countries were pissed off but they lived.

One thing is for sure though, and i think i can speak on behalf of fellow Australians in this instance. If they tried to pass a law to stop Australians expressing an opinion toward a particular country...... we'd boycott that country just on that basis.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:36 pm

magentaflame;1511386 wrote:

One thing is for sure though, and i think i can speak on behalf of fellow Australians in this instance. If they tried to pass a law to stop Australians expressing an opinion toward a particular country...... we'd boycott that country just on that basis.

Don't think it's so much individuals expressing opinions as big businesses, corporations etc. etc. promoting and backing boycotts on Israel.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:06 pm

Thing is if youre a business or company and youre losing profit because the "people' are bpycotting you because of your support (percieved or otherwise) what are you supposed to do?

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:16 pm

magentaflame;1511357 wrote: And all this time I was thinking the Saudis ran America. Looks like i was a bit wrong. ..... or was i?

Actually, no one is running the country right now. Would you care for a turn? You can't possibly do any worse.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:21 pm

I think youre right. I couldnt do worse. ICE-CREAM FOR EVERYONE!!!

Has to be better than being told to eat cake all the time. And its summer there who's gunna argue with ice-cream. And its inclusive. Vegans, LBGT, REDNECKS, democrats liberals rupublicans, lumberjacks, children, immigrants and illegals.!

Im a shoe in!

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:04 pm

ICE-CREAM FOR EVERYONE!!!

Now that's what I call a manifesto.

Is it a bird? Is it a plane? NO! It's the Magpotus!

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:14 pm

Bruv;1511381 wrote: So ALL the 46 other member countries of the United Nations Human Rights Council are wrong....................................and Israel and America are right ?

I wouldn't put it that way.

.

Bruv;1511381 wrote: America disagrees with the 190 plus countries that global warming should be tackled too....................good job you have god on your side................nobody else seems to be.

Again, I wouldn't put it that way.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:23 am

tude dog;1511374 wrote: I don't see the problem.

Reading further all it does is encourage fair trade with Israel as should be the case with any friend or alley.

As soon as it uses the word "prohibit" then it is far beyond "encourage".

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:16 am

tude dog;1511406 wrote: I wouldn't put it that way.

.

Again, I wouldn't put it that way.

They don't charge per word on here Dawg..............what way would you put it ?

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:10 am

Bruv;1511381 wrote: So ALL the 46 other member countries of the United Nations Human Rights Council are wrong....................................and Israel and America are right ?

.

America disagrees with the 190 plus countries that global warming should be tackled too....................good job you have god on your side................nobody else seems to be.

We are a sovereign nation, and as any sovereign nation, we act in our best interests. We are not subject to the whims of some UN council.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:43 am

tude dog;1511454 wrote: We are a sovereign nation, and as any sovereign nation, we act in our best interests. We are not subject to the whims of some UN council.

"Some UN Council" ?

46 other sovereign nations and 190 other sovereign nations ?

All the world marches.....................left, right, left, right, left ,right.

The US of |A marches.....................right, left, right, left ,right, left...........................and THEY are all wrong.

Post by **spot** » Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:36 pm

tude dog;1511454 wrote: We are a sovereign nation, and as any sovereign nation, we act in our best interests. We are not subject to the whims of some UN council.

I shall ask the obvious question - in what way is it in America's best interests that companies boycotting Iraeli goods, or trading with such companies, should be disbarred from Federal or State contracts? How does America benefit from that ban?

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:00 pm

Bruv;1511461 wrote: THEY are all wrong.

It is just enough to say they do not represent our best interests.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:17 pm

spot;1511462 wrote: I shall ask the obvious question - in what way is it in America's best interests that companies boycotting Iraeli goods, or trading with such companies, should be disbarred from Federal or State contracts? How does America benefit from that ban?

How do we benefit by co-operating with the council?

HRC MEMEBERS

There a number of members we don't exactly see eye to eye with. (that is being nice about it)

Post by **spot** » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:58 pm

tude dog;1511465 wrote: How do we benefit by co-operating with the council?

HRC MEMEBERS

There a number of members we don't exactly see eye to eye with. (that is being nice about it)

That's irrelevant to the question, that's a different matter. You said it's in America's best interests that companies boycotting Iraeli goods, or trading with such companies, should be disbarred from Federal or State contracts, and I asked "How does America benefit from that ban?" - I'd be grateful for a direct answer to that question.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:58 am

tude dog;1511464 wrote: It is just enough to say they do not represent our best interests.

An International council on human rights isn't in America's best interests ?

Says more than the sum of the words..............horrifically.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:07 pm

spot;1511469 wrote: That's irrelevant to the question, that's a different matter. You said it's in America's best interests that companies boycotting Iraeli goods, or trading with such companies, should be disbarred from Federal or State contracts, and I asked "How does America benefit from that ban?" - I'd be grateful for a direct answer to that question.

Lest anyone get the wrong idea, it confirms our best interests are with our friend and ally, Israel.

Post by **spot** » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:22 pm

tude dog;1511485 wrote: Lest anyone get the wrong idea, it confirms our best interests are with our friend and ally, Israel.

Why pick out Israel specifically by name? Does America have no other friend and ally?

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:23 pm

Bruv;1511479 wrote: An International council on human rights isn't in America's best interests ?

Says more than the sum of the words..............horrifically.

I agree.

Shocking that anybody would consider all votes of the HRC to be truly altruistic, consistent with honorable values.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:28 pm

tude dog;1511487 wrote: I agree.

Shocking that anybody would consider all votes of the HRC to be truly altruistic, consistent with honorable values.

ALL the combined votes ?

You are not paranoiac are you ?

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:53 pm

spot;1511486 wrote: Why pick out Israel specifically by name? Does America have no other friend and ally?

uhhhh, geee

Maybe we go back to the OP ???

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:00 pm

Bruv;1511488 wrote: ALL the combined votes ?

You are not paranoiac are you ?

Golly, just being realistic?

We didn't elect them and I do not expect them to have my best interests. We have no obligation to follow act in ways, not in our best interests.

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:06 pm

spot;1511486 wrote: Why pick out Israel specifically by name? Does America have no other friend and ally?

It's all very Biblical.

We think God lives there.

Ask Franklin Graham.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:30 pm

WOW, this is really getting bizarre.

LarsMac;1511496 wrote: It's all very Biblical.

We think God lives there.

WE WHO thinks that?

Ask Franklin Graham.

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:13 pm

tude dog;1511497 wrote: WOW, this is really getting bizarre.

WE WHO thinks that?

I was speaking as a rather generic, non-us "we"

Though, there are many of them that think they are "we", or rather "we" are "they"

Or, um, something like that.

Post by **spot** » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:05 pm

spot wrote: Why pick out Israel specifically by name? Does America have no other friend and ally?[QUOTE=tude dog;1511494]uhhhh, geee

Maybe we go back to the OP ???

The OP says: A bipartisan bill in Congress seeks to criminalize boycotts of Israel with fines and imprisonment, as the so-called BDS movement passes its twelfth birthday, notes Lawrence Davidson.
You wrote that "it confirms our best interests are with our friend and ally, Israel" and I asked "Why pick out Israel specifically by name? Does America have no other friend and ally? "

I didn't ask why YOU pick out Israel specifically by name, I asked why THE BILL picks out Israel specifically by name. Does America have no other friend and ally?

What you haven't answered is my direct question which I now put for a third time. You have sidestepped this twice. May I please have a direct answer to the question in bold here. You said it's in America's best interests that companies boycotting Iraeli goods, or trading with such companies, should be disbarred from Federal or State contracts. How does America benefit from that ban?

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:49 pm

spot;1511486 wrote: Why pick out Israel specifically by name? Does America have no other friend and ally?

It was the HRC which chose Israel as a target.

Post by **spot** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:52 pm

tude dog;1511512 wrote: It was the HRC which chose Israel as a target.

How does America benefit from that ban?

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:03 pm

spot;1511501 wrote: The OP says:

You wrote that "it confirms our best interests are with our friend and ally, Israel" and I asked "Why pick out Israel specifically by name? Does America have no other friend and ally? "

The whole topic is about Israel, I did not pick it.

spot;1511501 wrote: I didn't ask why YOU pick out Israel specifically by name, I asked why THE BILL picks out Israel specifically by name. Does America have no other friend and ally?

Of all the nations in the world, the HRC picked Israel for a boycott. As a nation, we are not obligated to follow their lead but can, if we want to frustrate it.

spot;1511501 wrote: What you haven't answered is my direct question which I now put for a third time. You have sidestepped this twice. May I please have a direct answer to the question in bold here. You said it's in America's best interests that companies boycotting Iraeli goods, or trading with such companies, should be disbarred from Federal or State contracts. How does America benefit from that ban?

Not only because it benefits Israel, but makes a statement to all those who want to do harm to our friend and ally.

Post by **spot** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:58 pm

There's a boycott against Denmark too. Is Denmark not also a friend and ally of America?

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:07 pm

Ahso!;1511333 wrote: Here's the actual bill.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-con ... %5D%7D&r=1

It also appears to say that even supporting companies that support BDS is criminal.

It's been referred to Committee. I doubt that it will see the light of day, again.

It seems a pretty silly ideal, to me.