How to combat terrorism

Bruv
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How to combat terrorism

Post by Bruv »

Is it now the time to round up the radical Muslims that are on the security forces watch list ?
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Clodhopper
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How to combat terrorism

Post by Clodhopper »

Short answer: Dunno.

Longer version: I can see the obvious appeal: get them off the streets somewhere they can't do any harm. Buuuut. Internment (which is what this would be) didn't seem to work that well overall in N.Ireland and is a fundamental breach of the principle of innocent until proven guilty. You don't want to be playing with that one lightly. Might it not actually encourage radicalisation among friends and relatives of the taken as well? You create a Hydra: cut off one head and three more spring up.

I think probably overall not yet, and if it is done, do it very differently from Internment in Ireland in the 1970s. I think more bodies on the ground (or in front of screens) is the answer to keeping track of the radicals and dealing with them. One of the troubles of running an ultra-cost-efficient lean mean machine is that if the unexpected crops up there may well be no spare capacity with which to deal with it and this may have happened to some extent here.

The other thing of course is that even if we do get plenty of people trained and on the job, the nature of intelligence work means it is highly unlikely you can ever achieve 100% efficiency. Something will still get through and people will die. Still, at least there is a sense that London is pulling together on this and funnily enough Trump's pathetic twitter war with Mayor Khan is actually helping here.
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gmc
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How to combat terrorism

Post by gmc »

No it would play in to the extremists hands. Internment didn't work in northern ireland either.
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LarsMac
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How to combat terrorism

Post by LarsMac »

Bruv;1509961 wrote: Is it now the time to round up the radical Muslims that are on the security forces watch list ?


That's a great way to create a whole new batch of radicals Muslims.
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Bruv
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How to combat terrorism

Post by Bruv »

Of the recent trio two were under suspicion of being radical, and on the watch list

One had been on TV advertising the fact, arguing with policemen about the ISIS flag in a documentary.

Would it be reasonable to hassle them with short detainments, maybe overnight, as in 'helping us with enquiries' like the old suss laws or stop and search, to keep them on their toes ?

And what about returners from trouble spots, should they come back and blend back into the population without raising suspicion ?

I am not one for panicking, but the fact that this most recent bunch of attacks were carried out by known suspects, makes you wonder what we could be doing that we aren't.
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LarsMac
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How to combat terrorism

Post by LarsMac »

A simple fact. You will never be able to eliminate the probability that some group of determined people will come up with a way to create mayhem.

The best that can be done is to make it as difficult as possible for them to make a big splash.

And, when they do pull something off, try to keep the media from making more of it than is warranted. The point of these things is to create FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) that the authorities are capable of protecting anyone from danger, and to cause as much anxiety as possible among the general population.

The Media needs to be turned down a notch or two on these things. These people feed off the media reaction.
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Bruv
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How to combat terrorism

Post by Bruv »

I do agree Lars, it's not like this terrorism thing is new to the UK.

We used to have regular IRA incidents over a long period, but this time it's different.

The Irish are part of us, a good craic, the new 'enemy' are different, obviously different and separate.................The desire for the Irish to unite Ireland was nearly understandable.

These new lot are wanting us to change, throw gays off roofs, behead people and wear strange clothes.

And they are amongst us but not part of us, different to the Ugandan Asians, and the West Indians, and the Poles, these people have different a religion with mosques opening quicker then churches close.

It is a conundrum.
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Wandrin
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How to combat terrorism

Post by Wandrin »

LarsMac;1509969 wrote: A simple fact. You will never be able to eliminate the probability that some group of determined people will come up with a way to create mayhem.

The best that can be done is to make it as difficult as possible for them to make a big splash.

And, when they do pull something off, try to keep the media from making more of it than is warranted. The point of these things is to create FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) that the authorities are capable of protecting anyone from danger, and to cause as much anxiety as possible among the general population.

The Media needs to be turned down a notch or two on these things. These people feed off the media reaction.


Part of the problem is that when the media in any country go overboard on an incident it also serves as a recruitment tool. Even if the media in the country with the attack stays calm, as long as the media in the US or some other country lets loose with sensationalized coverage, it still plays into the hands of the terrorists.
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FourPart
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How to combat terrorism

Post by FourPart »

The IRA had an understandable cause. They had terms they laid down. They planned their attacks in a military manner. Activists would commit attack after attack after attack.

ISIS have no apparent cause. They don't appear to have any terms. Just what is it we are supposed to yield to? Their attacks are each a one off suicide attack with no logic behind it.

It's totally irrational to blame it on Muslims, as the vast majority of the victims of ISIS are Muslims (we just don't get to hear about them quite so much). The Muslim Community unconditionally condemn them, to the point of refusing to bury the remains of the attacker in the Mosque or even to give the their Last Rites Prayers. Suicide, in any form, is absolutely Haram under Islamic Law. Even moreso is the taking of innocent life. The murder of children is absolutely abhorrent to all of them. This is NOT a Muslim issue, any more than the Ku Klux Klan or the Westboro Baptist Church is a Christian issue.

Until we can identify the problem, I don't see how anyone can begin to come up with a solution. The problem is not WHAT is happening, but WHY it is happening.
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How to combat terrorism

Post by Clodhopper »

I think we've reached a tipping point in the ordinary muslim's attitude with the killing of children in Manchester and the targeting of women on London Bridge. It's one thing when you are looking at 2 sides in a war, one of which is at least on the surface claiming to be acting in the name of your god; it's another when it's clearly and undeniably the deliberate targeting of kids, or women. I heard last night from a friend that there wasn't an imam to be found who'd say their last rites for the terrorists which is apparently a very big deal. If they know they will burn for all eternity because they won't get the necessary rites that might deter the true believer. Unfortunately I don't know enough to know if that is how it would work...

My understanding of these attacks is that they are mostly revenge attacks. They're not really for anything, except the Caliphate, perhaps? I read somewhere that apparently one of the attackers was shouting that this was for Allah and his family. I don't think any of the attackers lost close relatives to our attacks so you have to wonder what perverse logic makes young men believe that killing women and children helps their family in any way... I have the impression that they are brainwashed into a state where they see themselves as holy warriors striking a blow in an ongoing war and it's the striking of the blow that is the important thing especially now the Caliphate is pretty much gone. I would guess they are assured it's a certainty god will look after their family since what they are doing is for god and that therefore they will benefit their family by striking a blow...false logic with holes all over the place, but superficially plausible to the susceptible.

There was also approval for Mayor Khan among my group of friends. Trump was felt to be talking out of his arse (Trump being an example of a human with an arse at both ends, if we're honest).
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LarsMac
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How to combat terrorism

Post by LarsMac »

Those people may think that they are striking a blow for Islam. Every religion has its idiot followers. But I think these guys are being manipulated by the right-wing. They are simply the rabble-rousers. Their purpose is simply creating the fear and uncertainty in the public, causing the world to over-react and punish the Muslims as a group. That seems to be working to some degree among the ignorant. We hear and read the rhetoric every day. When the general public falls for the tactic, and follows the Trumpers and their ilk in punishing Muslims in general, that would then force the common Muslims to rise up against the persecution, and take up arms in the name of Allah to protect their families and their faith.

That seems to be the thinking that I observe.
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Clodhopper
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How to combat terrorism

Post by Clodhopper »

2 new developments, one worrying, the other positive:

Worrying is the report that 3 women chanting the koran attacked a nursery school teacher and hit her and cut her arm. That one seems so odd I want to be sure first it was Islamic, but if it is then it's a worry since it seems a new development and an escalation. Reported in the Evening Standard.

More positive is the news that denying terrorists a proper muslim burial would be a very big deal and might deter terrorists if it could be applied, and there is a push going on from imams to get everyone on board with it from within the community. This is very important. We'll see how it goes.
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gmc
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How to combat terrorism

Post by gmc »

Trump goes to the land of the terrorists that attacked the USA on 911, sells their leaders more arms and implies his backing for them to carry on inciting extremist violence througout the middle east. Wonder what he will do if they invade qatar send troops to help maybe. Saudi arabia is the source of wahabism and is funding isis why do americans and our idiotic leaders not see that I wonder.

Never mind jeremy corbyn m ight change things.
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magentaflame
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How to combat terrorism

Post by magentaflame »

LarsMac;1509969 wrote: A simple fact. You will never be able to eliminate the probability that some group of determined people will come up with a way to create mayhem.

The best that can be done is to make it as difficult as possible for them to make a big splash.

And, when they do pull something off, try to keep the media from making more of it than is warranted. The point of these things is to create FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) that the authorities are capable of protecting anyone from danger, and to cause as much anxiety as possible among the general population.

The Media needs to be turned down a notch or two on these things. These people feed off the media reaction.


well said Lars. I would like to know why our media coverage of attacks in America and Britain run all day here. All other news in this country falls away whilst we're given saturation coverage of events happening else where.

the media seems to whip up more **** than is neccesary it puts more fear into people and encourages those who believe in harming people the media coverage they want.

We don't allow psychopathic mass murderers the media they would so desire, so why would we give these idiots the same?
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
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magentaflame
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How to combat terrorism

Post by magentaflame »

gmc;1510028 wrote: Trump goes to the land of the terrorists that attacked the USA on 911, sells their leaders more arms and implies his backing for them to carry on inciting extremist violence througout the middle east. Wonder what he will do if they invade qatar send troops to help maybe. Saudi arabia is the source of wahabism and is funding isis why do americans and our idiotic leaders not see that I wonder.

Never mind jeremy corbyn m ight change things.


There are political experts saying Trump is allowing China and Russia free reign, and if they don't do something soon (get a stronger leader) then not only will Americans suffer but also lose their dominant place in the world.

There's also something we don't tend to think about. Well I hadn't anyway. A bloke in my class was telling me he's half Syrian and half Lebonese. I asked him if his parents were worried about relatives still back in Syria....... Sadly he replied his family has lost seven members fighting ISIS. That's a hell of a lot in one war.
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!

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