London Bridge another attack

[Bruv]

Pedestrians have been hit by a white van on London Bridge

Another incident in Borough Market.

[spot]

I crossed London Bridge onto Borough High Street and into Borough Market six hours earlier and then took the Jubilee line north from London Bridge station. It's a random risk which certainly shouldn't change anyone's behavior.

[magentaflame]

You're kidding right Spot? My tolerance level would be diminishing by now.

[spot]

I don't see why these outrages should induce national terror. It's a policing issue, the killers are criminals. Why would you possibly think I find their behavior tolerable, of course I don't.

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[magentaflame]

spot;1509895 wrote: I don't see why these outrages should induce national terror. It's a policing issue, the killers are criminals. Why would you possibly think I find their behavior tolerable, of course I don't.


How the heck did you get all that out of what i wrote?

[Bryn Mawr]

Seven dead, fifty injured and rising.

Whilst there is no comeback on the instigators then these attacks will continue and increase. What say we make it clear that every time a terrorist attack takes place at the behest of IS the direct consequence will be an increase in the forces attacking IS held territory? Do you think that would slow them down?

[Bruv]

It might Bryn , but I doubt it very much. It will act as a reason for more attacks.

[spot]

magentaflame;1509897 wrote: How the heck did you get all that out of what i wrote?


I've no idea what else you might have meant. You said I was kidding when I said "It's a random risk which certainly shouldn't change anyone's behavior", yes? You implied I was more tolerant of the murders than you'd be? I'm not remotely tolerant of the murders. What did you think you meant.

[Clodhopper]

It's not as if we haven't been here before: The IRA had its share of atrocities. With this sort of attack they go out and inflict terror, then they're dead so the problem to a certain extent solves itself. There may be copycat murders but again the immediate problem solves itself.

On a bigger scale we know we are getting most of our information that stops attacks from the Islamic community and muslim agents. We actually derive an intelligence benefit from that fact that so many muslims have integrated. The internet is a bigger problem, and international contacts. I imagine GCHQ is heavily involved and there is, we know, an international effort beyond the obviously military going on here. I'm sure more resources can always be used and perhaps May is signalling that we are moving to another more expensive level of activity. edit: If it's right there were signs about the previous attack but we lacked the resources to follow up what seemed to be a lower priority issue then there's an obvious area to work on right there.

There was a spike in hate crime after the last atrocity. I think we can assume it was mostly anti-muslim. There will probably be another now. That's actually what the leaders of these various groups want, and have been after for a long time: To force the communities apart, to radicalise both communities. Since that's what our own racist groups also want they are happy with the situation too.

chuckle. Here's me of all people saying stay cool, don't react. But it is the right and the correct response in this situation: don't feed this fire. We know there is a lot of successful intelligence and police work happening. We know these things will continue to happen for some time yet and the risk is everywhere. We know much more has been stopped (I don't think these figures are lies, though I'm sure that we'd argue about details if they were picked apart with all the info available) and honestly the old "Keep calm and carry on" slogan is the right one. Other than vigilance, normality is our best defiance of the terrorists.

[spot]

Bryn Mawr;1509901 wrote: What say we make it clear that every time a terrorist attack takes place at the behest of IS the direct consequence will be an increase in the forces attacking IS held territory? Do you think that would slow them down?This is the Israel approach to policing atrocities. It's an extraordinarily silly way to operate, it hands absolute control of government policy to the otherwise powerless perpetrator and, more particularly, to anyone who wants to order a fanatic out to kill some bystanders. If the government commits itself to reacting in a particular way after every atrocity, they hand power to the terror group. If someone then wants to derail current events, that guarantee of government reaction is perfect.

The first photo, in the earlier post, is 20 yards from where the van was abandoned. The bottom of the steps is the edge of Borough Market, and I think switching to a different level meant the people down there didn't know what had happened up on the bridge.

Here's another from yesterday afternoon.

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[Clodhopper]

I've also noticed what may be a change in behaviour: we've been taught to get out of the area when an incident occurs. When it's a bomb or guns that's got to be the best advice. But if it's knives... It seems quite a few people began to try to fight back. I've no idea with what effect but respect to any who did.

[minks]

it's horrifying, globally horrifying.

But not everyone is "taught" how to act when an attack happens.

We lost a local gal there, a young lady from our city, we are not "taught" how to react to many kinds of attacks (yes call us backwoods and naïve because truly we ARE) because this is so unfamiliar to us.

[Clodhopper]

"Taught" may be overdoing it. The advice we get after incidents like these is to get out of the area, well out of the area. But it can't save you from the initial attack if you are unlucky. I don't consider you naïve and backwoods for not knowing something that isn't relevant to you: I'm not that skilled at dealing with bears because we have none over here but wouldn't consider that made me particularly naïve. You're right that incidents like these are global though: French, Spanish, Romanians, Aussies and many more nationalities all involved.

[magentaflame]

Clodhopper;1510073 wrote: "Taught" may be overdoing it. The advice we get after incidents like these is to get out of the area, well out of the area. But it can't save you from the initial attack if you are unlucky. I don't consider you naïve and backwoods for not knowing something that isn't relevant to you: I'm not that skilled at dealing with bears because we have none over here but wouldn't consider that made me particularly naïve. You're right that incidents like these are global though: French, Spanish, Romanians, Aussies and many more nationalities all involved.


Australia so far hasn't been hit by any Attacks as such. One last week at Brighton was a bit strange but his family insists it's more to do with him as an individual using IS as an excuse for his drug and other criminal behaviour. The Lindt Cafe one was more to do with a nutter who was kicked out of his own mosque (and others apparently ) because they even thought he was a nutter and only used the IS theme in the end. A 15 year old who got sucked in and shot a public servant before police shot him ...... that's more sad than anything.

But we are told that they have foiled attacks . One on Christmas Day at Federation Square. Other men in Jail for planning one at the SCG or MCG....cant remember(so don't quote me, you'd have to look it up.) I think there were twelve of them. It all seems to be lone and one off's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... _Australia