Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

Post by spot »

Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing - BBC News

I shall, if I may, forbear all comment until the BBC tells me what the tractor was doing on the level crossing in the first place. I'd not want to be gratuitously unfair, after all. When I'm being unfair I much prefer to have incontestable grounds first.
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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spot;1494476 wrote: Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing - BBC News

I shall, if I may, forbear all comment until the BBC tells me what the tractor was doing on the level crossing in the first place. I'd not want to be gratuitously unfair, after all. When I'm being unfair I much prefer to have incontestable grounds first.


The Watton and Swaffham Times does not have much more detail :-

Tractor driver seriously hurt in train crash at Roudham level crossing - 10 people injured - News - Watton and Swaffham Times
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

Post by spot »

The Watton and Swaffham Times is to be congratulated on a superb and focused bout of reporting, I doubt they often get an opportunity.

The train driver's window frame seems disquietingly constructed of either fiberglass or cardboard, I had thought they used steel these days.
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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spot;1494476 wrote: Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing - BBC News

I shall, if I may, forbear all comment until the BBC tells me what the tractor was doing on the level crossing in the first place. I'd not want to be gratuitously unfair, after all. When I'm being unfair I much prefer to have incontestable grounds first.


Surely it would be for the railway operator and not the BBC to tell 'How' the tractor was on the crossing rather than 'What' it was doing on the crossing, the BBC could then report that news.
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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Bruv;1494486 wrote: Surely it would be for the railway operator and not the BBC to tell 'How' the tractor was on the crossing rather than 'What' it was doing on the crossing, the BBC could then report that news.


I really think that no-one knows yet - whilst the driver is still being treated in hospital they'd all be guessing.
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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Bruv;1494486 wrote: Surely it would be for the railway operator and not the BBC to tell 'How' the tractor was on the crossing rather than 'What' it was doing on the crossing, the BBC could then report that news.


I'd trust the railway operator to tell me, about as far as I'd trust the Metropolitan Police to explain how a chap they'd ambushed warranted a fusillade of bullets from their assigned executioner - the railway operator is almost, though possibly not quite, as biased and willing to brazenly lie their way out of it. Which doesn't mean I currently think it's their fault, just that I have no faith in their objective integrity.
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

Post by Bruv »

I hope I never get as cynical as you Spot.

Following such incidents there is always a vacuum of information until such time the possible witness/victim statements are brought together, along with technical reports from the inspection of the mechanics involved, give it at least a few days.

I suspect the tractor driver weaved onto the crossing via the offset barriers, as he had done many times before, only this time his luck ran out.
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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Bruv;1494495 wrote: I hope I never get as cynical as you Spot.




If the railway operators copped to the occasional plea of corporate manslaughter rather than fight tooth and nail through every court in the land in a desperate knee-jerk attempt to exculpate their institutionally incompetent management then I might consider believing their press statements. The Metropolitan Police, on the other hand, will need completely replacing from top to bottom before we ever reach even that minimal level of honesty.
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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Bruv;1494495 wrote: I hope I never get as cynical as you Spot.


is the cynicism reserved for that well known colmunist AA grumpy
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

Post by G#Gill »

The crossing in question sounds like an unmanned crossing of the type that Bruv mentioned. Probably a case of familiarity breeds contempt.

There have been one or two incidents around the country, of people taking a chance at unmanned railway crossings and getting hit by trains.
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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G#Gill;1494504 wrote: The crossing in question sounds like an unmanned crossing of the type that Bruv mentioned. Probably a case of familiarity breeds contempt.

There have been one or two incidents around the country, of people taking a chance at unmanned railway crossings and getting hit by trains.


So we can't blame the BBC for it then ?
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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the grumps;1494502 wrote: is the cynicism reserved for that well known colmunist AA grumpy


Are you allowed out on your own......away from your own threads I mean ?
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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Bruv;1494516 wrote: Are you allowed out on your own......away from your own threads I mean ?


:yh_shame ..... :wah::wah::wah::wah:..............................................:lips:
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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Bruv;1494515 wrote: So we can't blame the BBC for it then ?


Nah, I don't think so on this occasion. They are just reporting an incident, sort of. :thinking:
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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All of this intrigue over some dum bass driving into a crossing when a train is approaching?
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

Post by Bruv »

LarsMac;1494528 wrote: All of this intrigue over some dum bass driving into a crossing when a train is approaching?


If only.........no.....it is more the highly respected BBC's reporting of it.
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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Bruv;1494535 wrote: If only.........no.....it is more the highly respected BBC's reporting of it.


Must be referring to this article, then:

Roudham train and tractor crash passengers recall 'terror' - BBC News
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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My sole interest in the event is how the tractor came to be where it oughtn't.
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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spot;1494543 wrote: My sole interest in the event is how the tractor came to be where it oughtn't.


Post 7

I suspect the tractor driver weaved onto the crossing via the offset barriers, as he had done many times before, only this time his luck ran out.
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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I shall, if I may, await an official statement from the Transport Police.
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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I noticed that although there were plenty of shots of the train, there was hardly anything of the tractor, apart from a coupe of the upper part of the cab and, what is probably more important, the skip that it appeared to be towing. I also noticed that the approach to the crossing included a sign with a warning of risk of grounding to such vehicles. Would it not be unreasonable, therefore to consider this as a possible cause. Driver tows the skip across. Grounds it. Gets stuck. Train comes along. Thwack!!
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

Post by Bryn Mawr »

FourPart;1494678 wrote: I noticed that although there were plenty of shots of the train, there was hardly anything of the tractor, apart from a coupe of the upper part of the cab and, what is probably more important, the skip that it appeared to be towing. I also noticed that the approach to the crossing included a sign with a warning of risk of grounding to such vehicles. Would it not be unreasonable, therefore to consider this as a possible cause. Driver tows the skip across. Grounds it. Gets stuck. Train comes along. Thwack!!


That sounds a very reasonable working hypothesis given what we know so far.
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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I'm glad I waited. This is as recent as there is so far.

The Rail Accident Investigation Branch report reveals a signaller gave him permission to cross. The report says drivers checked if it was safe by ringing a signaller.

[...] "The tractor driver was given permission to cross the line, and had reached the mid-point of the crossing when his vehicle was struck by train 1K77, the 12:03 Norwich to Cambridge service, which was travelling at 84 mph (135 km/h).

Tractor hit by train in Norfolk had approval to cross line - BBC News

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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

Post by Bruv »

The drivers have to leave their vehicle to use a track side phone ? Nothing barring their way ?

What happens if there is a queue of cars ?
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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Don't look in my direction, I've never been anywhere that primitive.
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

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We now have the final report at https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/collisi ... tford.With the train a minute away from the crossing, the tractor driver had been granted permission to cross by a signaller at the Network Rail signal box in Cambridge.

At about 12.30pm, the Norwich to Cambridge service struck the tractor at 87mph. The train driver had sounded the vehicle’s horn and applied the emergency brake but was unable to stop.

The train driver and four passengers were also hurt.

In a report released by the Rail Accident Investigation Branch (RAIB) today, it is claimed the signaller had “lost his awareness of the position of the train” because his levels of concentration “may have lapsed”.

Tractor driver seriously injured in Roudham train crash was given permission to cross by possibly fatigued signaller - Diss Express



Network rail may be putting checks in place that no signaler in future can possibly become fatigued, but I shall nonetheless try hard to avoid Norfolk in my travels while there's a chance this chap may be on duty again. Signalers only have one job to perform, and that's to not ever crash trains into anything on their stretch of line.

Should anyone ever need an example of a meaningless insulting platitude they need look no further than Network Rail's response, "Reducing the risk at level crossings remains a top priority and we are committed to make level crossings as safe as possible for everyone", which is presumably how Network Rail’s senior incident officer for Anglia justifies her ample managerial salary. Network Rail Senior Incident Officer would appear to be a euphemism for utterly unproductive damage limitation PR spokesperson with a memorized list of buzzwords.
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

Post by Bryn Mawr »

spot;1507542 wrote: We now have the final report at https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/collisi ... tford.With the train a minute away from the crossing, the tractor driver had been granted permission to cross by a signaller at the Network Rail signal box in Cambridge.

At about 12.30pm, the Norwich to Cambridge service struck the tractor at 87mph. The train driver had sounded the vehicle’s horn and applied the emergency brake but was unable to stop.

The train driver and four passengers were also hurt.

In a report released by the Rail Accident Investigation Branch (RAIB) today, it is claimed the signaller had “lost his awareness of the position of the train” because his levels of concentration “may have lapsed”.

Tractor driver seriously injured in Roudham train crash was given permission to cross by possibly fatigued signaller - Diss Express



Network rail may be putting checks in place that no signaler in future can possibly become fatigued, but I shall nonetheless try hard to avoid Norfolk in my travels while there's a chance this chap may be on duty again. Signalers only have one job to perform, and that's to not ever crash trains into anything on their stretch of line.

Should anyone ever need an example of a meaningless insulting platitude they need look no further than Network Rail's response, "Reducing the risk at level crossings remains a top priority and we are committed to make level crossings as safe as possible for everyone", which is presumably how Network Rail’s senior incident officer for Anglia justifies her ample managerial salary. Network Rail Senior Incident Officer would appear to be a euphemism for utterly unproductive damage limitation PR spokesperson with a memorized list of buzzwords.


In the same way as a train passing a signal turns the section of track that it is entering to status red and the section of track that it is leaving to amber (and releases the section of track before that back to green) it should be automatic that any section of track containing a crossing that is open to be forced red and the sections either side to be forced amber. In that way no train could get near to a crossing that is not set in their favour.

Even if the signaller had opened the gates to let the tractor through it takes a train less than a minute to cover a section of track at the speed quoted, the driver would have seen the signal and had chance to avoid the collision.
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

Post by gmc »

Bryn Mawr;1507552 wrote: In the same way as a train passing a signal turns the section of track that it is entering to status red and the section of track that it is leaving to amber (and releases the section of track before that back to green) it should be automatic that any section of track containing a crossing that is open to be forced red and the sections either side to be forced amber. In that way no train could get near to a crossing that is not set in their favour.

Even if the signaller had opened the gates to let the tractor through it takes a train less than a minute to cover a section of track at the speed quoted, the driver would have seen the signal and had chance to avoid the collision.


OK How fast can atractor accelerate even assuming the driver had been looking to the side at the signal instead of looking ahead. Or if you are referring to the train driver how far does atrain doing 87mph travel in a minute and how long a distance oes it need to stop?
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

Post by Bryn Mawr »

gmc;1507565 wrote: OK How fast can atractor accelerate even assuming the driver had been looking to the side at the signal instead of looking ahead. Or if you are referring to the train driver how far does atrain doing 87mph travel in a minute and how long a distance oes it need to stop?


Well the sections of track covered by the signal are designed to be long enough for the train to stop easily whatever speed they're going and a train going at that speed would travel a mile and a half in a minute - far enough away to be outside of the proposed amber section of track by some distance. It would be no different to the driver reaching a signal due to a train on the track - the driver would be blocked from entering the section until the tractor had left and the gates were set in the train's favour.
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

Post by gmc »

Bryn Mawr;1507574 wrote: Well the sections of track covered by the signal are designed to be long enough for the train to stop easily whatever speed they're going and a train going at that speed would travel a mile and a half in a minute - far enough away to be outside of the proposed amber section of track by some distance. It would be no different to the driver reaching a signal due to a train on the track - the driver would be blocked from entering the section until the tractor had left and the gates were set in the train's favour.


OK Im bow to your greater knowledge of train operations. sounds like it's the signallers fault in the main.
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Man injured as train hits tractor at level crossing

Post by Bryn Mawr »

gmc;1507579 wrote: OK Im bow to your greater knowledge of train operations. sounds like it's the signallers fault in the main.


I blame the operating company for putting the signalman in that position.

The systems should be as foolproof and automatic as possible and in this case it isn't - the put the onus on the operator to do it manually rather than spending money on automation.
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