Zimbabwe votes
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Clodhopper
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Zimbabwe votes
Ah. I see. Thank you. Balance of terror stuff. The danger is when the balance tips. This perhaps is what Mbeki would have been telling Brown?
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Zimbabwe votes
Mbeki and Mugabe are pals from way back I believe, Mbeki is in awe of Mugabe's daring, awaiting the outcome so he could copy him.
Mugabe has had a lot of backing from african leaders, privately, if not officially.
I am not sure if his failure is because he is a flawed leader, or a testement to the West's involvement.
Either way it doesn't bode well for Africa's future.
I have no insider knowledge, nor do I follow these events very closely, it is just my assessment of patchy bits and pieces picked up over time.....and I have a Zimbabwean wife.
Mugabe has had a lot of backing from african leaders, privately, if not officially.
I am not sure if his failure is because he is a flawed leader, or a testement to the West's involvement.
Either way it doesn't bode well for Africa's future.
I have no insider knowledge, nor do I follow these events very closely, it is just my assessment of patchy bits and pieces picked up over time.....and I have a Zimbabwean wife.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Clodhopper
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Zimbabwe votes
I was wondering where you'd picked up what was clearly a better informed opinion than mine.Looks like it's going to get worse. He's certainly a flawed leader - most leaders are flawed - but his flaws seem to be overwhelming him and the law and democracy itself do not seem quite strong enough to provide the necessary checks and balances.
A young democracy is a vulnerable thing.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Zimbabwe votes
A European summary of Zimbabwe's problems
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Clodhopper
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Zimbabwe votes
Groan. There's not much to say to that.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Zimbabwe votes
So Mugabe and Zimbabwe problems are basically because white people are evil, he is just a helpless black innocent who has been picked on for no reason, and is struggling to keep Africa free, yeah right.
So the killing and ethnic cleansing of white people in Africa is alright because they are of European origin, but the killing and ethnic cleansing of semetic Jews who originated in the levant in the Europe of the 1930s was wrong.
Basically the argument goes that black africans have every right to kill and persecute white africans, however, white Europeans must accept enormous numbers of non-white immigration from across the world, because if they don't they are racists and supremicists?
The white Farmer thing is a red herring, they are a tiny powerless minoirty in a black country. The people that Mugabe is really persecuting is fellow black africans, and even his own tribes people have turned against him on mass. His appeals to patriotism are the last refuge of scoundrel, and London journalists shouldn't be so stupid as to act as apologists for him.
Is that the pathetic level of argument that the moral relativists came come up with to defend this one time much-respected black leader and patriot who has turned into the most despicable type of tyrant, regardless of his colour.
Get a grip.
So the killing and ethnic cleansing of white people in Africa is alright because they are of European origin, but the killing and ethnic cleansing of semetic Jews who originated in the levant in the Europe of the 1930s was wrong.
Basically the argument goes that black africans have every right to kill and persecute white africans, however, white Europeans must accept enormous numbers of non-white immigration from across the world, because if they don't they are racists and supremicists?
The white Farmer thing is a red herring, they are a tiny powerless minoirty in a black country. The people that Mugabe is really persecuting is fellow black africans, and even his own tribes people have turned against him on mass. His appeals to patriotism are the last refuge of scoundrel, and London journalists shouldn't be so stupid as to act as apologists for him.
Is that the pathetic level of argument that the moral relativists came come up with to defend this one time much-respected black leader and patriot who has turned into the most despicable type of tyrant, regardless of his colour.
Get a grip.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
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Clodhopper
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- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Zimbabwe votes
Hang on, Galbally, Bruv isn't saying he agrees with this. We were discussing how Mugabe is viewed and I was being cautious because my view is European and I was not at all sure what the "other" view was. I think Bruv was kindly passing on info on the subject.
This Spiked person does not impress much. Seems to be arguing everthing at once. :wah: Reminded me of spot. (Only joking, spot;))
This Spiked person does not impress much. Seems to be arguing everthing at once. :wah: Reminded me of spot. (Only joking, spot;))
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Zimbabwe votes
Clodhopper;835442 wrote: Hang on, Galbally, Bruv isn't saying he agrees with this. We were discussing how Mugabe is viewed and I was being cautious because my view is European and I was not at all sure what the "other" view was. I think Bruv was kindly passing on info on the subject.
This Spiked person does not impress much. Seems to be arguing everthing at once. :wah: Reminded me of spot. (Only joking, spot;))
Oh, I wasn't actually addressing that comment to Bruv directly, but more the writers of the articles in question, I should have made that more clear, my fault. :-2
This Spiked person does not impress much. Seems to be arguing everthing at once. :wah: Reminded me of spot. (Only joking, spot;))
Oh, I wasn't actually addressing that comment to Bruv directly, but more the writers of the articles in question, I should have made that more clear, my fault. :-2
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Zimbabwe votes
Regardless of Mugabes previous achievements (and he did have a few) when he took over what had been Rhodesia, it was a rich country.
Zimbabwe is now one of the poorest countries in the world.
Strangely, Mugabe and his cronies do not appear to be suffering the same fate.
Zimbabwe is now one of the poorest countries in the world.
Strangely, Mugabe and his cronies do not appear to be suffering the same fate.
An ye harm none, do what ye will....
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Clodhopper
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Zimbabwe votes
Chookie: Yeah. Damned white Imperialists :rolleyes:
Blair was right. (Clodhopper ducks as gmc throws his computer at him)
Blair was right. (Clodhopper ducks as gmc throws his computer at him)
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Zimbabwe votes
Galbally with respect, you have not read or understood the content of the links.
There has been no ethnic cleansing in Zimbabwe, there may have been some criminal activities, that may have been "Overlooked" by the authorities.There still remain some white farmers in Zimbabwe.
The white farmer is the tip of a colonial iceberg.
A key driver of Zimbabwe’s economic crisis has been the West’s attempts to bring down Mugabe by turning the financial levers. Relentlessly, the American and British governments, and the European Union, economically punished Mugabe’s Zimbabwe for what they considered to be its political disobedience.
There has been no ethnic cleansing in Zimbabwe, there may have been some criminal activities, that may have been "Overlooked" by the authorities.There still remain some white farmers in Zimbabwe.
The white farmer is the tip of a colonial iceberg.
A key driver of Zimbabwe’s economic crisis has been the West’s attempts to bring down Mugabe by turning the financial levers. Relentlessly, the American and British governments, and the European Union, economically punished Mugabe’s Zimbabwe for what they considered to be its political disobedience.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Zimbabwe votes
Bruv;835685 wrote: Galbally with respect, you have not read or understood the content of the links.
There has been no ethnic cleansing in Zimbabwe, there may have been some criminal activities, that may have been "Overlooked" by the authorities.There still remain some white farmers in Zimbabwe.
The white farmer is the tip of a colonial iceberg.
A key driver of Zimbabwe’s economic crisis has been the West’s attempts to bring down Mugabe by turning the financial levers. Relentlessly, the American and British governments, and the European Union, economically punished Mugabe’s Zimbabwe for what they considered to be its political disobedience.
I don't agree with you at all Bruv, Zimbabwe has been run into the ground by Robert Mugabe, and now he is trying to blame the West, in the same way that in the past he blamed everything on the white farmers, (who he has mostly gotten rid of and doesn't have as scapegoats any more). Its entirely true that these people are the descendents of white colonialists who took the land, but the sins of the father and all that. Its like Uganda in the 70s, destroying the economically productive class for racial and populist political reasons, destroying the economy in the process, then conviniently blame whitey when it suits.
As for this "tip of the colonial iceberg" stuff, what rubbish, that may have been true in the 19th century, but now its the island of Britain that's been colonized by the people of its ex-empire, not Africa by British farmers.
There has been no ethnic cleansing in Zimbabwe, there may have been some criminal activities, that may have been "Overlooked" by the authorities.There still remain some white farmers in Zimbabwe.
The white farmer is the tip of a colonial iceberg.
A key driver of Zimbabwe’s economic crisis has been the West’s attempts to bring down Mugabe by turning the financial levers. Relentlessly, the American and British governments, and the European Union, economically punished Mugabe’s Zimbabwe for what they considered to be its political disobedience.
I don't agree with you at all Bruv, Zimbabwe has been run into the ground by Robert Mugabe, and now he is trying to blame the West, in the same way that in the past he blamed everything on the white farmers, (who he has mostly gotten rid of and doesn't have as scapegoats any more). Its entirely true that these people are the descendents of white colonialists who took the land, but the sins of the father and all that. Its like Uganda in the 70s, destroying the economically productive class for racial and populist political reasons, destroying the economy in the process, then conviniently blame whitey when it suits.
As for this "tip of the colonial iceberg" stuff, what rubbish, that may have been true in the 19th century, but now its the island of Britain that's been colonized by the people of its ex-empire, not Africa by British farmers.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Zimbabwe votes
Zimbabwe has been run into the ground by Robert Mugabe
African commentator Barrie Collins has argued: ‘Since the end of the Cold War, the USA and the UK have got used to a high degree of compliance on the part of African governments - and they are no longer prepared to tolerate those, like Zimbabwe, that insist on doing things their own way.’
.....he blamed everything on the white farmers, (who he has mostly gotten rid of and doesn't have as scapegoats any more)
Yet Western governments have chosen striking forms of intervention. Instead of militarily and directly intervening in Zimbabwean affairs - despite loud demands from the colonialist/radical alliance that they should do so - governments in the West pursued a more hands-off form of meddling in Mugabe’s regime. They used sanctions and economic blackmail; they funded opposition parties and ‘events’; and most revealingly they put pressure on South Africa, Tanzania and other nearby states to use their muscle to try to push Mugabe from power.
........what rubbish, that may have been true in the 19th century,
As the former British foreign secretary Margaret Beckett argued, Britain cannot be seen explicitly interfering in Zimbabwe because we are ‘the old colonial power...........If the sanctions, blackmail and withdrawal of trade have helped to push Zimbabwe’s economy into freefall, then the relentless backdoor political interventions have disempowered the people of Zimbabwe. The dynamic of Western intervention caused Mugabe to become more entrenched and paranoid about outsiders - and it encouraged the MDC to look to Western officials and radicals for their favour and flattery rather than to build a meaningful grassroots movement inside Zimbabwe’
African commentator Barrie Collins has argued: ‘Since the end of the Cold War, the USA and the UK have got used to a high degree of compliance on the part of African governments - and they are no longer prepared to tolerate those, like Zimbabwe, that insist on doing things their own way.’
.....he blamed everything on the white farmers, (who he has mostly gotten rid of and doesn't have as scapegoats any more)
Yet Western governments have chosen striking forms of intervention. Instead of militarily and directly intervening in Zimbabwean affairs - despite loud demands from the colonialist/radical alliance that they should do so - governments in the West pursued a more hands-off form of meddling in Mugabe’s regime. They used sanctions and economic blackmail; they funded opposition parties and ‘events’; and most revealingly they put pressure on South Africa, Tanzania and other nearby states to use their muscle to try to push Mugabe from power.
........what rubbish, that may have been true in the 19th century,
As the former British foreign secretary Margaret Beckett argued, Britain cannot be seen explicitly interfering in Zimbabwe because we are ‘the old colonial power...........If the sanctions, blackmail and withdrawal of trade have helped to push Zimbabwe’s economy into freefall, then the relentless backdoor political interventions have disempowered the people of Zimbabwe. The dynamic of Western intervention caused Mugabe to become more entrenched and paranoid about outsiders - and it encouraged the MDC to look to Western officials and radicals for their favour and flattery rather than to build a meaningful grassroots movement inside Zimbabwe’
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Clodhopper
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Zimbabwe votes
The pro-Mugabe stuff reads like absolute rubbish to me. It's all assertion, no evidence. Western powers are accused of using diplomacy, racism is only seen as being whites mistreating blacks; blacks killing whites is redressing colonial wrongs. Shrug. It's a newspaper article and has to appeal to its audience to sell.
Old Spikey has to twist Beckett's words that as the ex-colonial power we must not be seen to be involved into evidence for massive interference. No numbers indicating what the withdrawal of trade means - just another assertion, as are the massive number of quotations - he's using quotations as if they are proven facts. Shoddy reporting, let alone scholarship. Seems more likely to me that they've trashed their own economy so much there's nothing left to sell.
I am not presenting these thoughts as conclusions. I don't know enough. It's just how the arguments presented appear to me: Unconvincing attempts to serve a political purpose, not an effort to reach the truth.
What were Zimbabwe's exports before Mugabe? I have a vague impression it was foodstuffs, but were there minerals? Bauxite? Silver? There are plenty of countries hostile to the West who would bust sanctions as a matter of policy let alone to obtain raw amterials. Iran? China would if it suited her and no-one could stop her.
I remain open to convincing arguments, or better, facts. Numbers.
Sigh. The problem will go away as global warming destroys what the humans haven't.
Old Spikey has to twist Beckett's words that as the ex-colonial power we must not be seen to be involved into evidence for massive interference. No numbers indicating what the withdrawal of trade means - just another assertion, as are the massive number of quotations - he's using quotations as if they are proven facts. Shoddy reporting, let alone scholarship. Seems more likely to me that they've trashed their own economy so much there's nothing left to sell.
I am not presenting these thoughts as conclusions. I don't know enough. It's just how the arguments presented appear to me: Unconvincing attempts to serve a political purpose, not an effort to reach the truth.
What were Zimbabwe's exports before Mugabe? I have a vague impression it was foodstuffs, but were there minerals? Bauxite? Silver? There are plenty of countries hostile to the West who would bust sanctions as a matter of policy let alone to obtain raw amterials. Iran? China would if it suited her and no-one could stop her.
I remain open to convincing arguments, or better, facts. Numbers.
Sigh. The problem will go away as global warming destroys what the humans haven't.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Zimbabwe votes
The arguement that it is EITHER Mugabe OR western influences that brought Zimbabwe to its present situation is naive.
Why not a combination of these ?
Mugabe set out to reclaim sovereignity over his newly independant country's finance, White farmers were a symptom of this rather than the main problem, although Tobacco was a massive earner.
Why not a combination of these ?
Mugabe set out to reclaim sovereignity over his newly independant country's finance, White farmers were a symptom of this rather than the main problem, although Tobacco was a massive earner.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Clodhopper
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Zimbabwe votes
I haven't seen any indication of what these Western influences were, except the assertion that they did massive damage.
I do know that Mugabe killed the goose that was laying the golden eggs when his men killed or displaced the owners of the farms. Do we need any other reason for the economic collapse of the country? What are those farms producing now? I've certainly not heard there are stocks of unsold goods building up in Zimbabwe because no-one will buy them, what I'm hearing is that Zimbabweans are running out of seed corn to plant with and the tractors or oxen to plough with.
(That was from a once-pro-Mugabe supporter quoted on the BBC, so make of it what you will)
I do know that Mugabe killed the goose that was laying the golden eggs when his men killed or displaced the owners of the farms. Do we need any other reason for the economic collapse of the country? What are those farms producing now? I've certainly not heard there are stocks of unsold goods building up in Zimbabwe because no-one will buy them, what I'm hearing is that Zimbabweans are running out of seed corn to plant with and the tractors or oxen to plough with.
(That was from a once-pro-Mugabe supporter quoted on the BBC, so make of it what you will)
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Zimbabwe votes
“Zimbabwe is a strategic country for the United States because events in Zimbabwe have a significant impact on the entire region,†points out USAID.
Zimbabwe’s example, were it allowed to flourish unhindered, might threaten to set an example that would make an indelible continent-wide impression. Conversely, the U.S. and Great Britain hope that a defeated Zimbabwe would send a signal that resistance to Western economic domination is futile. There is much that rides on the outcome of Zimbabwe’s struggle against its imperial enemies -- perhaps the fate of Africa itself.
The West began to apply significant pressure on Zimbabwe late in 2001. In September of that year, the IMF declared Zimbabwe ineligible to use its general resources, and three months later President George W. Bush signed into law the Zimbabwe Democracy and Economic Recovery Act of 2001.
Any modern economy must rely on international financial institutions in order to transact normal trade. But Western nations had largely disrupted Zimbabwe’s ability to do so, and the result was immediate and dire. The supply of oil fell sharply, and periodically ran out entirely. It became increasingly difficult to muster the foreign currency to maintain an adequate level of imported electricity, and the nation was frequently beset by black outs. The shortage of oil and electricity in turn severely hobbled industrial production, as did the inability to import raw materials and spare parts. Business after business closed down and the unemployment rate soared above 70 percent.
Zimbabwe’s example, were it allowed to flourish unhindered, might threaten to set an example that would make an indelible continent-wide impression. Conversely, the U.S. and Great Britain hope that a defeated Zimbabwe would send a signal that resistance to Western economic domination is futile. There is much that rides on the outcome of Zimbabwe’s struggle against its imperial enemies -- perhaps the fate of Africa itself.
The West began to apply significant pressure on Zimbabwe late in 2001. In September of that year, the IMF declared Zimbabwe ineligible to use its general resources, and three months later President George W. Bush signed into law the Zimbabwe Democracy and Economic Recovery Act of 2001.
Any modern economy must rely on international financial institutions in order to transact normal trade. But Western nations had largely disrupted Zimbabwe’s ability to do so, and the result was immediate and dire. The supply of oil fell sharply, and periodically ran out entirely. It became increasingly difficult to muster the foreign currency to maintain an adequate level of imported electricity, and the nation was frequently beset by black outs. The shortage of oil and electricity in turn severely hobbled industrial production, as did the inability to import raw materials and spare parts. Business after business closed down and the unemployment rate soared above 70 percent.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Clodhopper
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Zimbabwe votes
Bruv: Just skimming through after being out of touch. Thanks for posting this.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Zimbabwe votes
Mugabe's speech today on the TV News seems to agree, dont suppose he reads the western media though.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Clodhopper
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Zimbabwe votes
Hi Bruv: Sorry haven't been back to this before - have you seen the Trouble in Zimbabwe thread? What do you think?
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Zimbabwe votes
Thanks for letting me know.
I am skeptical about the Email myself.
Just doesn't sound right, no detail, just an emotive plea.....for what ?
I am skeptical about the Email myself.
Just doesn't sound right, no detail, just an emotive plea.....for what ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Clodhopper
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- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Zimbabwe votes
BBC reporting widespread rural intimidation in rural Zimbabwe ahead of the second vote. Seems Orla Guerin (a respected journalist and no flunkey of the West, as her reporting from Palestine has shown) has sneaked into the place despite the ban! Angola and Mozambique apparently reporting a few hundred refugees apiece.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Zimbabwe votes
All too predictable I am afraid, there will be only one outcome, Robert Mugabe will steal the election and remain in power until he dies, his government will continue to intimidate the opposition, murder people, and get away with it, a host of apologists will subsequently "explain" his actions in the correct cultural context.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
-
Clodhopper
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- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Zimbabwe votes
Galbally: Hard to disagree.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
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Clodhopper
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Zimbabwe votes
Second round election 27th July. It's going to be tough for them. I'm really just posting this to try and keep the issue somewhere in people's minds amidst all our other concerns.
I wish them all the best.
I wish them all the best.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Zimbabwe votes
Clodhopper;821010 wrote: Spot: 
You think Stalin was a great man and wonderful leader who only did what was necessary for his country and we shouldn't holds the millions of deaths he caused against him.
I'm not the only one, apparently. This article gives me a certain measure of satisfaction.The Soviet tyrant and Second World War leader is battling Tsar Nicholas II for first place in The Name of Russia, a domestic version of the BBC series Great Britons. Stalin had been well ahead in the online vote until the show's producer appealed to members of a popular Russian social networking site to back Nicholas II.
The Tsar edged in front tonight as communists and monarchists whipped up support for their candidates. Stalin has received almost 263,000 votes so far, against more than 267,000 for Nicholas II.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 339108.ece
You think Stalin was a great man and wonderful leader who only did what was necessary for his country and we shouldn't holds the millions of deaths he caused against him.
I'm not the only one, apparently. This article gives me a certain measure of satisfaction.The Soviet tyrant and Second World War leader is battling Tsar Nicholas II for first place in The Name of Russia, a domestic version of the BBC series Great Britons. Stalin had been well ahead in the online vote until the show's producer appealed to members of a popular Russian social networking site to back Nicholas II.
The Tsar edged in front tonight as communists and monarchists whipped up support for their candidates. Stalin has received almost 263,000 votes so far, against more than 267,000 for Nicholas II.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 339108.ece
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Zimbabwe votes
Robert Mugabe, a hero of Africa’s independence struggle whose long rule in Zimbabwe descended into tyranny, corruption and incompetence, has died at the age of 95
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... es-aged-95
May I beg the site's indulgence and bring this thread back to mark the death of Robert Mugabe, rather than starting a bitty RIP thread? We lost Bruv and Galbally but their observations here are far more helpful today than just noting the news itself.
Bruv;821103 wrote: Strangely Mugabe is a patriot, much vaunted by many of his countrymen still.
It takes an arrogant stubborness to overthrow the colonial ties that still bind africa to the west, and he is a hero for trying.
Much of africa is hog tied by agreements for trade and loan repayments, obliged to carry out policies directly tied to said agreements.
Nothing is as simple as good guy bad guy movies. All the worlds financial Institutions have a stake in how africa works, restrictions on trade, conditions on loans and developement, all controlled from the west.
Mugabe has taken on that huge oldboy network, and at every turn they cry Human rights, while imposing inhumane conditions to sutain western commerce.
I wish I was more eloquent and could pull the facts and dates etc from my memory.
Galbally;859683 wrote: All too predictable I am afraid, there will be only one outcome, Robert Mugabe will steal the election and remain in power until he dies, his government will continue to intimidate the opposition, murder people, and get away with it, a host of apologists will subsequently "explain" his actions in the correct cultural context.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... es-aged-95
May I beg the site's indulgence and bring this thread back to mark the death of Robert Mugabe, rather than starting a bitty RIP thread? We lost Bruv and Galbally but their observations here are far more helpful today than just noting the news itself.
Bruv;821103 wrote: Strangely Mugabe is a patriot, much vaunted by many of his countrymen still.
It takes an arrogant stubborness to overthrow the colonial ties that still bind africa to the west, and he is a hero for trying.
Much of africa is hog tied by agreements for trade and loan repayments, obliged to carry out policies directly tied to said agreements.
Nothing is as simple as good guy bad guy movies. All the worlds financial Institutions have a stake in how africa works, restrictions on trade, conditions on loans and developement, all controlled from the west.
Mugabe has taken on that huge oldboy network, and at every turn they cry Human rights, while imposing inhumane conditions to sutain western commerce.
I wish I was more eloquent and could pull the facts and dates etc from my memory.
Galbally;859683 wrote: All too predictable I am afraid, there will be only one outcome, Robert Mugabe will steal the election and remain in power until he dies, his government will continue to intimidate the opposition, murder people, and get away with it, a host of apologists will subsequently "explain" his actions in the correct cultural context.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.