Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?

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Gnostic Christian Bishop
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Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?

This quote speaks of God choosing Jesus as a human sacrifice to take our just punishment for our sins. Dogma says that we cannot redeem ourselves from God condemnation. 1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

The above quote shows this as Gods first actual judgement as judge and shows the setting and accepting of a bribe or human sacrifice to corrupt his justice. That justice usually stated that only the punishment of the guilty was acceptable to justice and that it would be unjust to punish the innocent. The corruption of God’s usual justice is what the bribe or sacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice.

Recognizing that by whatever name you would use, sacrifice, ransom, bribe or payment, would you say such an immoral request and legal injustice would most likely be demanded by a God or by a Satan?

If punishing the innocent is not a just and moral thing to do, I would say that Satan would be the one to ask or demand such a sacrifice.

That would have Satan ruling heaven and not God as a good God would not do such an immoral thing.

Do you agree that Satan is more likely to ask for us to accept an immoral human sacrifice to bail us out than God would?

If you agree, does that indicate that Satan was ruling in heaven and not God on that day?

Regards

DL
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Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?

Post by G#Gill »

Regards, DL ........................................................Go away and take your one and only subject with you. Obsession is a very sad infliction and if I were you I'd talk to my doctor about it - he may refer to a psychiatrist. Just go away ...................................... please !
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Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

G#Gill;1482598 wrote: Regards, DL ........................................................Go away and take your one and only subject with you. Obsession is a very sad infliction and if I were you I'd talk to my doctor about it - he may refer to a psychiatrist. Just go away ...................................... please !


Bite me.

Regards

DL
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Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?

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Gnostic Christian Bishop;1482590 wrote: Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?


It's only 15:12 here in GMT+1. So far, God has ruled the skies and Satan has ruled my vocabulary. But it would be imprudent of me to answer your question at this point in time.
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Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?

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Gnostic Christian Bishop;1482655 wrote: Bite me.

Regards

DL


Oh my! I see that Satan has your tongue as well! Tsk-tsk!
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Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?

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G#Gill;1482598 wrote: Regards, DL ........................................................Go away and take your one and only subject with you. Obsession is a very sad infliction and if I were you I'd talk to my doctor about it - he may refer to a psychiatrist. Just go away ...................................... please !
Nawrty nawrty!
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Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?

Post by FourPart »

I must be God, as I am the only one to have reign over me.
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

FourPart;1482814 wrote: I must be God, as I am the only one to have reign over me.


That is the Gnostic Christian way of thinking.

We never give up our dominion over ourselves to a fantasy.

Regards

DL
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Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?

Post by Smaug »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1482841 wrote: That is the Gnostic Christian way of thinking.

We never give up our dominion over ourselves to a fantasy.

Regards

DL


Have you apologized to AB yet, or don't Gnostic Christian manners extend that far?
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Smaug;1482856 wrote: Have you apologized to AB yet, or don't Gnostic Christian manners extend that far?


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Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?

Post by FourPart »

Smaug;1482856 wrote: Have you apologized to AB yet, or don't Gnostic Christian manners extend that far?


Bear in mind that for an apology to be of any worth, it has to be sincere & not pressured.
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Post by Ted »

What a neat thread. Atonement theology is a non starter. I think that the original posting is important. What kind of "God" would demand a blood sacrifice. It is sick and twisted. To Think that God would be so petulant as to demand a life and their blood to assuage his childish anger. This is nonsense. Jesus was crucified for being perceived as a threat to the established order of the Roman empire. As far as Satan is concerned it is a mythical character to try to explain the evil in the world. This evil is not from Satan but from us. Job is another tale that tried to explain evil but with not much more success. God is an experiential reality, not a person with arms and legs etc. He/she/it self is experienced whether Christian, Hindu Islam or any other great faith. Does God rule the world? No in my view. God the the ground of all being, love etc. God is the source of all that is not some white bearded Guy up there somewhere with a giant book that is supposed to contain your name and a list of your sins. Sin is not some action on your part but that which is life denying. The good is that which is life affirming.. God does no rule us day by day or in any other way. Remember the enemy also pray to God and so do we. God is not some guy you manifplate in this or that situation.
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FourPart;1482896 wrote: Bear in mind that for an apology to be of any worth, it has to be sincere & not pressured.


True. I suspected "Bish-bash" was no gentleman, else why insult AB in this manner? I don't know AB, but that's irrelevant as I object to profanities on public forums, and most especially to profane personal insults online.
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Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?

Post by G#Gill »

Somebody who feels they have to use profanities, shows that they have an ineptitude for the grasp of the English language, and that they show a distinct weakness and much ignorance in any argument they become involved in.

In other words they have a compulsion to use foul, insulting language in place of more intelligent and educated words. This is probably the quickest way to loose an argument !
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Ted;1482958 wrote: What a neat thread. Atonement theology is a non starter. I think that the original posting is important. What kind of "God" would demand a blood sacrifice. It is sick and twisted. To Think that God would be so petulant as to demand a life and their blood to assuage his childish anger. This is nonsense. Jesus was crucified for being perceived as a threat to the established order of the Roman empire. As far as Satan is concerned it is a mythical character to try to explain the evil in the world. This evil is not from Satan but from us. Job is another tale that tried to explain evil but with not much more success. God is an experiential reality, not a person with arms and legs etc. He/she/it self is experienced whether Christian, Hindu Islam or any other great faith. Does God rule the world? No in my view. God the the ground of all being, love etc. God is the source of all that is not some white bearded Guy up there somewhere with a giant book that is supposed to contain your name and a list of your sins. Sin is not some action on your part but that which is life denying. The good is that which is life affirming.. God does no rule us day by day or in any other way. Remember the enemy also pray to God and so do we. God is not some guy you manifplate in this or that situation.


I agree that this topic should not even exist and it would not except for the fact that all who fly the cross do not mind that disgusting and immoral stance.

So either you and I are more moral than the average Christian or we are too evil to see the morality of the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty.

I do not see us as evil.

And Christians will not admit that they are.

Regards

DL
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Post by Ted »

For me as for Judaism Christianity is a way of living. It is not about right belief. During

the first three centuries it was a way of living. There was no sence of dogma or doctrine. It was about doing. I think that Jesus would be appalled at what we have done with his name.
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Ted;1484143 wrote: For me as for Judaism Christianity is a way of living. It is not about right belief. During

the first three centuries it was a way of living. There was no sence of dogma or doctrine. It was about doing. I think that Jesus would be appalled at what we have done with his name.


I agree.

Chrestians, or those I think pre-dated Christians, and who called their God (Good) and Jesus, Jesus the good, would also be flipping out.

They did not count on a Constantine screwing up the religion so badly.

Regards

DL
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Post by Ted »

It seems to me that Gnostic does what Richard Dawkins Does. He generalizes based on his biases and not on authentic scholarship.
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Ted;1484193 wrote: It seems to me that Gnostic does what Richard Dawkins Does. He generalizes based on his biases and not on authentic scholarship.


Some bias for sure. Our biases are our guides to what we think is correct actions and thoughts. We should not ignore them but try to use them wisely.

I don't really know what you mean by authentic scholarship as most scholars also follow their biases.

Otherwise, I pay more attention to scholarship than most believers as they only care what their tribal leaders says and not what is said of their tribe.

Faith blinders and ear plugs would be a good analogy for idol worshiping Christians and Muslims.

Regards

DL
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Post by Ted »

Authentic scholars are those who look at the evidence and interpret that and then subject their work to peer evaluation. A very rigorous process. BTW the concept of Satan was borrowed from the Mesopotamians It was and is a myth to try to explain what some call evil.
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Ted;1484227 wrote: Authentic scholars are those who look at the evidence and interpret that and then subject their work to peer evaluation. A very rigorous process. BTW the concept of Satan was borrowed from the Mesopotamians It was and is a myth to try to explain what some call evil.


Quite possibly. Many thing the Zoroastrian tradition.

Gnostic Christians took the route of blaming evil on Yahweh which is why we call him a vile demiurge. In our myths that is. Not in reality.

In reality, evolution is what is responsible for human to human evil. That can be the only source for it.

All other things we call evil are natural and not evil at all. Just unfortunate circumstances with no evil intent. Intent is what makes an action evil or not.

Secular law uses mens rea. Latin for evil mind or intent and even a murderer is not found guilty or culpable if he does not pass mens rea. The insane for instance who murder without knowing it is evil are found criminally insane and innocent of their crime due to that insanity.

Regards

DL
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Post by Ted »

I can agree with most of that. Just finished reading a section in a book about "Job". Nice try but fails to nail down the question of evil. Nice poetry though.
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Ted;1484856 wrote: I can agree with most of that. Just finished reading a section in a book about "Job". Nice try but fails to nail down the question of evil. Nice poetry though.


It does fail because they did not recognize the forces of evolution and how we must compete and end in doing evil to the losers of those competitions.

The thing to recognize though is that we cooperate and do good to/for each other way more often than we do evil.

If the opposite were true, the world would not be progressing as well as it is.

Regards

DL
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Post by Ted »

They had absolutely no idea of "evolution". They were just trying to get by day to day or at least most of them.
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Ted;1485141 wrote: They had absolutely no idea of "evolution". They were just trying to get by day to day or at least most of them.


I agree.

Times and conditions then were unimaginably hard as can be seen in the conditions of the skeletons we have unearthed and examined. Even children have bone damage due to heavy lifting and abuse.

We are so lucky to live today and not in that day.

Regards

DL
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Post by Ted »

I can certainly agree with that. But in this world a few of us are lucky but the vast majority put up with horrendous situations and are not so lucky. 5% of the people control 90-95 per cent of the world's wealth and many are not prepared to share. I call it greed.
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Ted;1485463 wrote: I can certainly agree with that. But in this world a few of us are lucky but the vast majority put up with horrendous situations and are not so lucky. 5% of the people control 90-95 per cent of the world's wealth and many are not prepared to share. I call it greed.


If I go by the graph of income distribution, I agree.

I have been looking for a graph that shows how much of the wealth of the rich is liquid assets and cannot find one. If they have the bulk of their wealth invested in factories for example the we cannot say they are greedy. They are not hoarding their wealth but using it or letting it be used by banks for investments.

I like to think that the rich are greedy pricks. That might be my poverty and inequality bias. I may be wrong and will maintain that doubt until I have the proof of their greed.

The accumulation of wealth, in work creating endeavours, is good. Accumulation to just hoard the wealth is greed and evil.

I tend to blame banks and governments more than the wealthy while at the same time knowing that our oligarchs own everything including you and me. Not our spirit, just our bodies.

Regards

DL
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Post by Ted »

Just look at the economic collapse of 2008. Bankers took home obscene bonuses they got for failing. Then the rich folks had the gall to show up in their pvt. jets which impressed few. No one is worth a million a year. Sports figures take home millions a year. Some due indeed share but many simply stash it away. Monsanto wanted to install a free water distribution system in a town in central america. The only catch was the people had to give up all rights to the rain that fell. Some nasty game there. The banks misled many people in both America and Europe and sold them funds that were worthless. Now if that isn't greed I don't know what is.
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Ted;1485535 wrote: Just look at the economic collapse of 2008. Bankers took home obscene bonuses they got for failing. Then the rich folks had the gall to show up in their pvt. jets which impressed few. No one is worth a million a year. Sports figures take home millions a year. Some due indeed share but many simply stash it away. Monsanto wanted to install a free water distribution system in a town in central america. The only catch was the people had to give up all rights to the rain that fell. Some nasty game there. The banks misled many people in both America and Europe and sold them funds that were worthless. Now if that isn't greed I don't know what is.


Some have been writing about how our economic systems have been screwed up for 40 years. I think even longer but am not an economist.

I do know that things are really bad for us slaves at the moment.

I do not mind people making in the millions as I believe in a hierarchical division of wealth. I dislike the eugenic system we have now where the rich, because of entrenched old money, will always gain more that the average increase that the lower ranks can achieve.

That, in real term, is a eugenic system.

Regards

DL
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