Does God demand equality?

Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:32 am

Does God demand equality?

My Gnostic Christian God demands equality of all peoples as a part of our Universalists beliefs.

Most religions also preach some form of equality yet also preach homophobia and misogyny. Why are most believers denying equality to the vast majority of those not in their particular religion as well as to many within their own circles?

It seems that Gods do demand equality. Love thy neighbor as yourself, or some other reciprocity rule, are in every major religious tradition. It seems that the religious believe in equality just as little as they believe in their Gods who demand it. What happened to fearing God and doing as he commands?

I cannot see the world solving its problems, be they religious or political, while the vast majority, the religious, deny equality to the other majority who are not of their particular religion. That religious hatred against gays, women and those in other religions must stop. Religious hate of others puts more hate than good into our societies and prevents rapprochement.

We, as individuals, are quite good and altruistic. This is quite apparent if one looks at the statistics of our progress as a people in other moral areas. It is our religions and other social institutions and governments that are evil, not the people, as many governing hierarchies have institutionalized misogyny in their written policies.

Our last great challenge against justice, our hate directed against gays and women must be set aside if the harder challenges we face, if there are any, are to be defeated.

That hate is holding back our rise in being civilized people. I urge all men to look at their mothers, daughters and wives, and wonder why they do not see them as equal or demand that their religious laws make them so.

I urge all women to ask the men in their lives why exactly they continue to promote the hate and inequality of gays and women through their support of homophobic and misogynous policies.

Does your God demand equality and why are you, --- you meaning all religious people, --- not granting it?

Regards

DL

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:34 pm

God demands nothing there is no such being.

Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:49 pm

gmc;1481638 wrote: God demands nothing there is no such being.

That will really help women gain equality.

You might remember that atheists are not doing much to help their own wives, mothers and daughters gain equality either.

Regards

DL

Smaug · Post by **Smaug** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:48 pm

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1481627 wrote: Does God demand equality?

My Gnostic Christian God demands equality of all peoples as a part of our Universalists beliefs.

Most religions also preach some form of equality yet also preach homophobia and misogyny. Why are most believers denying equality to the vast majority of those not in their particular religion as well as to many within their own circles?

It seems that Gods do demand equality. Love thy neighbor as yourself, or some other reciprocity rule, are in every major religious tradition. It seems that the religious believe in equality just as little as they believe in their Gods who demand it. What happened to fearing God and doing as he commands?

I cannot see the world solving its problems, be they religious or political, while the vast majority, the religious, deny equality to the other majority who are not of their particular religion. That religious hatred against gays, women and those in other religions must stop. Religious hate of others puts more hate than good into our societies and prevents rapprochement.

We, as individuals, are quite good and altruistic. This is quite apparent if one looks at the statistics of our progress as a people in other moral areas. It is our religions and other social institutions and governments that are evil, not the people, as many governing hierarchies have institutionalized misogyny in their written policies.

Our last great challenge against justice, our hate directed against gays and women must be set aside if the harder challenges we face, if there are any, are to be defeated.

That hate is holding back our rise in being civilized people. I urge all men to look at their mothers, daughters and wives, and wonder why they do not see them as equal or demand that their religious laws make them so.

I urge all women to ask the men in their lives why exactly they continue to promote the hate and inequality of gays and women through their support of homophobic and misogynous policies.

Does your God demand equality and why are you, --- you meaning all religious people, --- not granting it?

Regards

DL

For my money, there's a good deal of wisdom in what you say, GCB. I think the only thing anyone could possibly "take issue" with is the existence of God, and that's a purely personal belief.:-6

Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:04 pm

Smaug;1481645 wrote: For my money, there's a good deal of wisdom in what you say, GCB. I think the only thing anyone could possibly "take issue" with is the existence of God, and that's a purely personal belief.:-6

Thanks.

You have opened a door and I step on in with your first lesson on who God is.

It is you my friend, if you want it to be.

Let me explain using Christian and Jewish myths.

This Gnostic Christian’s apology for calling myself and you God.

Adam and Eve became as Gods when they gained a moral sense and no longer had their mind cut off from intelligent thought. As our primordial ancestors, we inherit that same trait even though Christianity wrongly thinks that to be evil and a fall. Retaining dominion over the earth, humans never revoked this inherited trait of a moral sense, --- and the right for man to judge himself. Jesus highlights this when he took the seat of judgement at God’s right hand.

When I use terms like “I am God”, or “you are God”, I am not speaking of the traditional miracle working God of scriptures and myths. He does not exist as far as we can know as he has never made an appearance to prove his reality.

What I am trying to convey to you by saying that you are a God in your own right is to be master of yourself and you need not be a sheep. You can, as Jesus says, pick up your burdens and responsibilities for your sins and follow his mind set. Be a shepherd. Lead by example.

What I am trying to convey is that the only God you can ever know is the good you find within yourself. It's your ideal of God and of the Jesus or Christ mind. That is quite different from me or someone thinking they are the traditional creator God, or thinking that they are more than anyone else. Both Jesus and the Christ in these myths are for equality. Not the misogyny that we presently enjoy. That is another topic though. We are to be co-equal with Jesus.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Jesus would explain this concept as one just seeing that they have joined God’s Divine Council by embracing his own Christ mind. Or better said, as this is the more eastern Jesus, we activate our pineal gland and open our third eye.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Council

Regards

DL

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:26 am

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1481641 wrote: That will really help women gain equality.

You might remember that atheists are not doing much to help their own wives, mothers and daughters gain equality either.

Regards

DL

What do you expect? What a singularly inane comment, unlike the churches atheists are not an organised body political or otherwise. The godly on the other hand are at the forefront of the battle against equality and freedom, always have been and always will be. The bible says is a phrase at the start of every sentence arguing against equlaity.

God doesn't exist religion is a creation and belief system made up for the sole purpose of controlling people.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:38 am

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1481641 wrote: That will really help women gain equality.

You might remember that atheists are not doing much to help their own wives, mothers and daughters gain equality either.

Regards

DL

You know this how? I find the opposite. Also, the ones who worked the hardest for our own equality is US, Women themselves, ourselves, whether we were opposed by men, or supported by men.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:59 am

I believe that Love & Peace are innate in everyone, as Man is, by nature, a social species. It is Man-Made Religion that tries to teach us otherwise.

Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:14 pm

gmc;1481655 wrote: What do you expect? What a singularly inane comment, unlike the churches atheists are not an organised body political or otherwise. The godly on the other hand are at the forefront of the battle against equality and freedom, always have been and always will be. The bible says is a phrase at the start of every sentence arguing against equlaity.

God doesn't exist religion is a creation and belief system made up for the sole purpose of controlling people.

You are kind to atheists and others who are doing nothing to help give women justice.

The gay community came together and moved a mountain and they are only what, 3 % of the population?

Atheists and others who support women are a much larger % of the population.

That is an assumption on my part and God help women if I am wrong as t5hat would make the world a much more evil place than I want to admit to.

Strange that a few gays can muster support yet women and the men who believe in equality cannot. Shame on us all.

Regards

DL

Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:19 pm

AnneBoleyn;1481664 wrote: You know this how? I find the opposite. Also, the ones who worked the hardest for our own equality is US, Women themselves, ourselves, whether we were opposed by men, or supported by men.

No argument that women have tried to champion their own cause with so success.

There is also no argument that they have failed to move society to a better position.

I don't know why women cannot network even as good as gays do when we all know that women are the best networkers of all genders.

I do not recommend bra burning. I recommend lighting a fire under mothers so that their daughters can enjoy full equality instead of the misogyny they now enjoy.

Regards

DL

Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:22 pm

FourPart;1481669 wrote: I believe that Love & Peace are innate in everyone, as Man is, by nature, a social species. It is Man-Made Religion that tries to teach us otherwise.

I tend to agree but history has shown people fighting for resources just as much as for religions.

When things are good, we let our generosity come out but when things are not good, we will fight to survive.

Happily, history is also showing us how cooperation instead of war is better for the long run.

Regards

DL

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:41 pm

FourPart;1481669 wrote: I believe that Love & Peace are innate in everyone, as Man is, by nature, a social species. It is Man-Made Religion that tries to teach us otherwise.

I'm sorry, I think that is wrong. We are predators, we do have the capacity for love & peace, but we are the most warlike species on the planet.

Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:48 pm

AnneBoleyn;1481713 wrote: I'm sorry, I think that is wrong. We are predators, we do have the capacity for love & peace, but we are the most warlike species on the planet.

I agree but that is because we are also the most altruistic.

In other animal species, if the tribe or herd put too much strain on resources, they end in fighting over them. Man is the best at taking advantage of resources but also puts pressure on the tribes and that is why we war.

That is why I think we did better under matriarchies and female Goddesses. Women are less aggressive both for resources as well as war.

Regards

DL

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:38 pm

As more evidence to support the idea that we evolved from other primates, Chimps, who are undoubtedly a social species will frequently fashion weapons from branches to use as clubs & go on an organised affray on other nearby colonies, clubbing chimps from these other colonies to death. However, within their own colonies they follow a very strict social code.

Most insects survive by way of social interaction. Each individual has their own unique niche in the overall management of the hive. Leaf cutter ants, as it happens, will also go to war on other ant colonies, but what is more fascinating still is that not only do they take prisoners, they enslave them to farm the fungi which grows on the mould of the leaves, which is what they use for food. Now that is very human-like behaviour.

Clearly there is no Religion being demonstrated in either of these examples, but they're both demonstrations of parallels in nature, where on the whole social interaction is the dominant activity, even though war & killing are also part of daily life. No amount of Religion will ever change that.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:05 am

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1481714 wrote: I agree but that is because we are also the most altruistic.

In other animal species, if the tribe or herd put too much strain on resources, they end in fighting over them. Man is the best at taking advantage of resources but also puts pressure on the tribes and that is why we war.

That is why I think we did better under matriarchies and female Goddesses. Women are less aggressive both for resources as well as war.

Regards

DL

Well there was athena known to the romans as minerva, Kali, hindu goddess of destruction, bast egyptian, nike was the goddess of victory. Generally goddesses were beings you really did not want to annoy. Female warriors were not unknown in celtic society. Many men are terrified of self confident women that's why the religious are so quick to try and put them in a submissive role if you can control the women you can control their men.

Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:08 am

FourPart;1481718 wrote: As more evidence to support the idea that we evolved from other primates, Chimps, who are undoubtedly a social species will frequently fashion weapons from branches to use as clubs & go on an organised affray on other nearby colonies, clubbing chimps from these other colonies to death. However, within their own colonies they follow a very strict social code.

Most insects survive by way of social interaction. Each individual has their own unique niche in the overall management of the hive. Leaf cutter ants, as it happens, will also go to war on other ant colonies, but what is more fascinating still is that not only do they take prisoners, they enslave them to farm the fungi which grows on the mould of the leaves, which is what they use for food. Now that is very human-like behaviour.

Clearly there is no Religion being demonstrated in either of these examples, but they're both demonstrations of parallels in nature, where on the whole social interaction is the dominant activity, even though war & killing are also part of daily life. No amount of Religion will ever change that.

I agree when speaking of the us and them religions.

I do not agree when speaking of Universalist religions who try to include us all.

If you can't see God in all, you can't see God at all.

-Anon

Religions are small and large tribal units.

The tribes must learn to trade just as our ancestors did instead of fighting.

We must start to see us all as a part of the one human tribe while still keeping our various cultures and positive cultural diversities intact.

Regards

DL

Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:12 am

gmc;1481725 wrote: Well there was athena known to the romans as minerva, Kali, hindu goddess of destruction, bast egyptian, nike was the goddess of victory. Generally goddesses were beings you really did not want to annoy. Female warriors were not unknown in celtic society. Many men are terrified of self confident women that's why the religious are so quick to try and put them in a submissive role if you can control the women you can control their men.

Most of the Goddesses you name are more modern than the ones I had in mind but we have no argument. Your last is on the mark in most cases I think.

Regards

DL

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:04 pm

Tribes will trade & have always traded with or without Religion. Religion is not a requirement.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:39 pm

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1481737 wrote: Most of the Goddesses you name are more modern than the ones I had in mind but we have no argument. Your last is on the mark in most cases I think.

Regards

DL

Out of curiosity what ones are they?

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:47 pm

Venus - Goddess of Love

Hesther - Goddess of New Life (Later known as Easter)

Aphrodite - Goddess of Love & Fertility

Frigg (Nordic) - Goddess of marriage, childbirth, motherhood, wisdom, household management and weaving and spinning. Her name means "beloved" in ancient Norse and is derived from fri "to love." She is also known as Frige, Friia, Frija and Frea.

(Not quite what I expected of a Goddess with a name like that)

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:48 pm

Justice in the Bible means an equitable sharing of the earth's resources.

The rich get richer and the poorer get poorer. This problem was around 10.000

years ago. We have learned nothing of justice in 10.000 years.

Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:05 pm

FourPart;1481746 wrote: Tribes will trade & have always traded with or without Religion. Religion is not a requirement.

I agree and would add that it is better to leave ones religion at home when one goes out to trade.

Regards

DL

Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:13 pm

Ted;1481760 wrote: Justice in the Bible means an equitable sharing of the earth's resources.

The rich get richer and the poorer get poorer. This problem was around 10.000

years ago. We have learned nothing of justice in 10.000 years.

How do you define equitable buddy?

Do you see a pyramid shaped social economic demographic pyramid or a flat communistic one? Or something in between?

Are you ready to scrap democracy, or better said, our illusion of democracy?

Are you also ready to get rid of capitalism?

Regards

DL

Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:17 pm

gmc;1481748 wrote: Out of curiosity what ones are they?

We do not have names for them as they were way before language was written.

This link speaks of the old Goddesses and how we know of them.

It is a dreary watch but worth it if you are into really old history.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:03 pm

I don't agree that one should leave his Christianity at home when trading. Judaism and its offshoot Christianity were meant to be a way of life not something for the Sabbath. Over the years as a school administrator I was told on occasion that I ran a Christian school. At no time did I ever speak of my Christian faith I simply tried to live it without proselytising. Don't preach your faith live it. If folks see that you have something to offer they will ask. This to has been my experience.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:18 pm

The very concept of equality is read in many spots throughout the Bible. Jesus spoke of the "Kingdom of God". This kingdom was part of the early church when the apostles held all things in common (Acts). Justice as used in the Bible, according to scholars, implied the equitable sharing of all the worlds resources. Jesus himself was quoted as saying that the "Kingdom of God is within you,"

Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:14 pm

Ted;1482963 wrote: The very concept of equality is read in many spots throughout the Bible. Jesus spoke of the "Kingdom of God". This kingdom was part of the early church when the apostles held all things in common (Acts). Justice as used in the Bible, according to scholars, implied the equitable sharing of all the worlds resources. Jesus himself was quoted as saying that the "Kingdom of God is within you,"

True but Christianity has not bought into that part of scriptures.

Their kingdom of God is above while the bible says it is here.

You either see it or you do not and live in poverty.

Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

become acquainted with will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.

"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, given all the conditions at hand. That is an irrefutable statement.

Regards

DL

Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:16 pm

Ted;1482963 wrote: The very concept of equality is read in many spots throughout the Bible. ,"

I agree but the Bible begins with --- he shall rule over you, --- and that bit is why Christianity is a misogynistic religion who denies women equality.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:21 pm

Gnostic I don't disagree with much of what you say but I do not see a perfect world. I am in Canada and I see poverty and abuse that the government does not deal with. I consider that immoral. The world is not perfect but it is our duty to work towards a perfect world. It not likely will ever be created but we must move in that direction. We see in the life and teachings of Jesus how we are to live and how we are to act. We could add tothat the fact that many Christians do not follow in the footsteps of Jesus of Nazareth. But then no religion in this world is perfect. Perfection is a goal to aim for. As for misogyny that was the norm for the day and of course it was me who put the Bible together. Jesus presented us with a new set of commandments and not of of them are being followed.

Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:16 pm

Ted;1483228 wrote: Gnostic I don't disagree with much of what you say but I do not see a perfect world. I am in Canada and I see poverty and abuse that the government does not deal with. I consider that immoral. The world is not perfect but it is our duty to work towards a perfect world. It not likely will ever be created but we must move in that direction. We see in the life and teachings of Jesus how we are to live and how we are to act. We could add tothat the fact that many Christians do not follow in the footsteps of Jesus of Nazareth. But then no religion in this world is perfect. Perfection is a goal to aim for. As for misogyny that was the norm for the day and of course it was me who put the Bible together. Jesus presented us with a new set of commandments and not of of them are being followed.

I hear you on the misogyny but the age of the document does not explain how modern Christians have kept up that old attitude.

As to the reality of our world being the best it can possibly be is irrefutable.

I do understand your view and I did not say the world was perfect. I said it was the best it could possibly be. Not the nest we can make it.

The Gnostic Christians were well on their way to discovering that we are an evolving species on an evolving world that, even at that time, was the best it could possibly be.

A few more years of life and preaching might have seen Gnostic Christians leading Christianity and we new Gnostics Christians would have an easier time not correcting the garbage that the winners of the God wars put out there as our beliefs.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:22 pm

Christianity as a religion is doomed. It is dying out and a new age is arriving. The old myths are no longer believable. Either the church changes or it dies.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 2:04 am

Ted;1483663 wrote: Christianity as a religion is doomed. It is dying out and a new age is arriving. The old myths are no longer believable. Either the church changes or it dies.
Indeed there is a great difference between different churches. There are those that pound the scriptures into you, forcing their interpretation of things down your throat & condemning you to Hell for any slightest infraction. These are the ones I have no time for whatsoever, and feel should be banned, as they come under the context of Hate Preaching.

On the other hand, there are those which act more like Social Societies, working to help everyone else without judgement or preaching. More often than not it is these type of churches which operate the Food Banks. Not because it is a Religious Duty, but because it is Morally Right to help all comers.

Despite the disputes of whether Jesus existed or not (which I, personally have no doubt that he did), I believe that far from him being the son of some non-existent God, he was merely a Socialist, trying to put across this kind of thinking in what was, in essence, a Capitalist Society. No wonder it caused a stir at the time. I believe the teachings were valid & right. It is, however, the superstitious who have elevated him to the level of a divinity which have turned the original intentions on its head. I also believe that if he did exist & were to pay a visit to the world as it is now, he would be disgusted at the way the churches get wealthier & wealthier, waging war, preaching hatred & twisting his words to inflict suffering in his name.

Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:03 am

Ted;1483663 wrote: Christianity as a religion is doomed. It is dying out and a new age is arriving. The old myths are no longer believable. Either the church changes or it dies.

I hear you but even today, people just use churches as social clubs and entertainment centers regardless of knowing that their religion is just an adult fairy tale.

Belief is not what is keeping these religions going it is the need for fellowship and that is why atheists are starting up their own churches. Free thinking churches much like Gnostic Christian mystery schools but churches never the less. That is why I see Gnostic Christianity as the mid range between the two and superior to both.

Regards

DL

Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:08 am

FourPart;1483676 wrote: Indeed there is a great difference between different churches. There are those that pound the scriptures into you, forcing their interpretation of things down your throat & condemning you to Hell for any slightest infraction. These are the ones I have no time for whatsoever, and feel should be banned, as they come under the context of Hate Preaching.

On the other hand, there are those which act more like Social Societies, working to help everyone else without judgement or preaching. More often than not it is these type of churches which operate the Food Banks. Not because it is a Religious Duty, but because it is Morally Right to help all comers.

Despite the disputes of whether Jesus existed or not (which I, personally have no doubt that he did), I believe that far from him being the son of some non-existent God, he was merely a Socialist, trying to put across this kind of thinking in what was, in essence, a Capitalist Society. No wonder it caused a stir at the time. I believe the teachings were valid & right. It is, however, the superstitious who have elevated him to the level of a divinity which have turned the original intentions on its head. I also believe that if he did exist & were to pay a visit to the world as it is now, he would be disgusted at the way the churches get wealthier & wealthier, waging war, preaching hatred & twisting his words to inflict suffering in his name.

If you are talking of the Nazarene Jesus then no argument at all. To Gnostic Christians, that is who they called Jesus the good.

If you are talking about the Roman ass kissing wimp that Rome invented then a quick look at his morals will quickly show how poor of a Rabbi he was.

Especially his non-divorce laws for women while allowing men to divorce. Equality is not in that Jesus' tool kit even as Christians try to say otherwise.

He shall rule over you and women are not fit to teach men for that Roman created Jesus.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:06 pm

I think we have to remember that the writers of both the OT and NT were writing with very ancient concepts. Things happened that they did not understand and so they only had their ancient concept and a primitive language with which to write about what they saw and experienced. A good example is the early idea that epilepsy was caused by demon possession. Theuy new nothing of neurons and malfunctioning parts of the brain. So they could only write as far as their knowledge or lack thereof would permit. Times have changed and the vast advancement of our knowledge has shown that they were wrong but not because of a lack of brains power, they had plenty but due to a great lack of ancient understanding. That was not ignorance but just the. great absence of knowledge. That was the way it was.

Personally I do not agree with either dogma or doctrine. They are just another example that we do not yet and never will have the language with which to speak of the divine and neither do we have the conceptualizing skills. Human language cannot corral the Divine. Spong, Borg, Borg D J Hall and a host of others.

Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:57 pm

Ted;1484086 wrote: I think we have to remember that the writers of both the OT and NT were writing with very ancient concepts. Things happened that they did not understand and so they only had their ancient concept and a primitive language with which to write about what they saw and experienced. A good example is the early idea that epilepsy was caused by demon possession. Theuy new nothing of neurons and malfunctioning parts of the brain. So they could only write as far as their knowledge or lack thereof would permit. Times have changed and the vast advancement of our knowledge has shown that they were wrong but not because of a lack of brains power, they had plenty but due to a great lack of ancient understanding. That was not ignorance but just the. great absence of knowledge. That was the way it was.

Personally I do not agree with either dogma or doctrine. They are just another example that we do not yet and never will have the language with which to speak of the divine and neither do we have the conceptualizing skills. Human language cannot corral the Divine. Spong, Borg, Borg D J Hall and a host of others.

And we get further from understanding the ancients over time.

That is the problem with literal reading of myths.

As an esoteric ecumenist, mine is not the usual dogmatic understanding as I think wisdom comes from many sources.

Christianity just happens to have gone too far into immoral thinking thanks to its political masters.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:04 pm

It is really necessary to remember that these ancient people could only write with ancient concepts and a primitive language. They had to try to make sense out of what they saw. They were not wrong they simply did not have either the language or the conceptualizing abilities that our knowledge has given us. Education and beter understandings. Epilepsy is no longer thought of as demon possesion. We now understand it is a malfunction of the brain.

Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:27 am

Ted;1484135 wrote: It is really necessary to remember that these ancient people could only write with ancient concepts and a primitive language. They had to try to make sense out of what they saw. They were not wrong they simply did not have either the language or the conceptualizing abilities that our knowledge has given us. Education and beter understandings. Epilepsy is no longer thought of as demon possesion. We now understand it is a malfunction of the brain.

Yes and the ancients would have recognized that having that demon cast into a pig did not work too well.

When it came to their understanding of what God meant to them, they may have been ahead of us as their heads were not filled with nearly as much useless information as ours are.

If you read a bit of Socrates, you will find few modern thinkers up to his level.

We are the same thinkers the ancients were but more stupid in some areas.

IE. Consciousness. We in the West have about 4 meanings for that but the ancient East had about 7 definitions.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:06 pm

First of all the demon and pigs story is a parable about Jesus meant to give a lesson. Some of it is still Judgement in hind site which is not in my view really valid. Like reading the sacred scriptures without understanig midrash.

Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:45 am

Ted;1484188 wrote: First of all the demon and pigs story is a parable about Jesus meant to give a lesson. Some of it is still Judgement in hind site which is not in my view really valid. Like reading the sacred scriptures without understanig midrash.

Religions are all about judging, and since I think they should focus on morals, which are judgement calls, I have no problem with judging. Midrash is just a way of confirming or refuting a judgement and adding situations and information to refine the judgement.

I call that seeking God. God as defined as the best rules to live life by and not some guy in the sky.

I see Jews and Gnostic Christians as both seekers after a God although Jews have their own way of striving both for and against God. Like Gnostic Christians, they are often thought to be atheists more than theists because we will not kowtow to God.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:28 pm

I can't agree with you on midrash. I do think the sacred scriptures give us clear instructions on judging. We are not to judge. That is God's role.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:54 pm

The Bible in general is not about morality but about following in the steps of Jesus. Yes there are a few spots where one might call it morality.

Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:03 am

Ted;1484215 wrote: I can't agree with you on midrash. I do think the sacred scriptures give us clear instructions on judging. We are not to judge. That is God's role.

He has to be here to judge.

The Rabbinic oral tradition says that a Rabbi can overrule God so I have no idea where you are getting that you are not to judge.

You judge many things constantly so why would you not judge God?

Do you not believe this bit?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

If you do not judge God, how can you say he is good?

Regards

DL

Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:05 am

Ted;1484222 wrote: The Bible in general is not about morality but about following in the steps of Jesus. Yes there are a few spots where one might call it morality.

The bible is all about God's rules and laws.

Are rules and laws not all based on morality?

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:29 pm

No rules and laws are not all based on morality. Some are based on society to make it work smoothly. I try not to judge people. I might disagree with them but that is not in and of itself a judgment of the person. I leave that role to God and it alone.

Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:38 pm

Ted;1484289 wrote: No rules and laws are not all based on morality. Some are based on society to make it work smoothly. I try not to judge people. I might disagree with them but that is not in and of itself a judgment of the person. I leave that role to God and it alone.

Disagreeing is judging.

If you do not judge, how do you know God is good and should be followed?

Explain your use of ( it ) alone please. An ( it ) cannot judge as far as I know. Its do not usually have minds.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:33 am

I will say it again I may judge ideas but that is not the same as judging them as a human being in any personal way. That is simply a failure on you part to understand the difference. But hey you can say what you think. It is a free country.

Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:23 pm

Ted;1484415 wrote: I will say it again I may judge ideas but that is not the same as judging them as a human being in any personal way. That is simply a failure on you part to understand the difference. But hey you can say what you think. It is a free country.

I spoke elsewhere of political correctness and put a link with it and that is what I see here. It might work for you but I am too direct a person to use it.

Regards

DL

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:47 am

That is not political correctness just common sense. If that is how you see it that is fine with me. I simply do not agree.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:56 pm

My view says the world is not the best it could be. But we see in Jesus the role we must play. We are to work toward a better world. Let us not forget the parable of the Good Samaritan. My neighbour is anyone on this planet that need help. Thousands starving to death or being tortured to death. The parable of the Wedding Feast again shows us what we are to do; look after the poor and the impoverished and those living under oppression. The world will never attain perfection but it is out duty to work towards a better world. Personally I as a Christian am a social democrat. You spoke of capitalism a few posts back. Unbridled capitalism is a curse. We see that 5% or less control and hold about 95% of the world's wealth while a large part of the world's population is living in poverty and under oppression and live in fear for their lives. This is in my view immoral. My own country is fostering immoral situations. Typical conservative thinking.