Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

User avatar
Gnostic Christian Bishop
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:25 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Ted;1484290 wrote: I happen to think Paul was correct. We are part of God and God is part of us.Did Jesus say this? "If a man love me .. .words." This is not necessarily a moral statement. We like to please those we love and that has nothing to do with morality but with love. Jesus' quote on the kingdom is in debate as to whom the author was--the evangelist|. The whole idea of predestination takes away all freedom. Some are predestined to get to heaven and some to hell. I most certainly do not believe that a loving God would do that.God serving man. I think it is a two way street in a servant relationship. I've said it before 80% of the words attributed to Jesus cannot be traced back to the historical Jesus of Nazareth.


I would say closer to 100% but I am a tough house.

"We are part of God and God is part of us."

I am a part of my hair and my hair is a part of me but I rule my hair and it does not rule me.

Not to knit pick but who is in charge of you? You or God?

If you were a Rabbi of the oral tradition, would you kowtow to God or would you have God kowtow to you, --- if there was no agreement on an issue.

That could be a tough one for you since you said elsewhere that you did not judge God.

I did ask you a question on that elsewhere though on you not judging. You might have already refuted that. I will wait to see the sequence of your replies.

Regards

DL
Ted
Posts: 5652
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:05 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Ted »

First of all God does not get involved the the day to day lives of folks. I am in charge of myself and me alone. No I do not judge God I simply trust her, him, it. So as far as judging people, that is not my role. I might and probably do challenge their ideas but that is not the same as judging them as a person or a member of God's family.
User avatar
Gnostic Christian Bishop
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:25 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Ted;1484414 wrote: First of all God does not get involved the the day to day lives of folks. I am in charge of myself and me alone. No I do not judge God I simply trust her, him, it. So as far as judging people, that is not my role. I might and probably do challenge their ideas but that is not the same as judging them as a person or a member of God's family.


You cannot separate a person from their ideas. We are what we think.

That aside. I think it a shame and a loss to society if you do as you say you do.

You will not likely ---- 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good., --- and pass on the judgements you say you do not make, and will not shoe this type of love.

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

When a lot younger than today, I was corrected by another and it profoundly changed my ways for the better. I did not appreciate it particularly at the time but certainly did later.

I think we all owe each other that service.



Regards

DL
Ted
Posts: 5652
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:05 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Ted »

The Bible also says "Judge not lest you be Judges with the same judgement". As for Proverbs that is simply one writers interpretation of his own experiences.
User avatar
Gnostic Christian Bishop
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:25 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Ted;1484571 wrote: The Bible also says "Judge not lest you be Judges with the same judgement". As for Proverbs that is simply one writers interpretation of his own experiences.


I do not fear judgement even by my own harsh judgements and standards.

Do you fear being judged by yours?

Regards

DL
mjplatt
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:28 am

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by mjplatt »

Exactly how would that work in reality? You must continually make character judgments in everyday life. To not do so would be utter foolishness.
User avatar
Gnostic Christian Bishop
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:25 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

mjplatt;1484783 wrote: Exactly how would that work in reality? You must continually make character judgments in everyday life. To not do so would be utter foolishness.


For sure.

My character does not change from day to day. Does yours?

Regards

DL
Ted
Posts: 5652
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:05 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Ted »

Perhaps those judgements should be kept to ourselves.
User avatar
Gnostic Christian Bishop
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:25 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Ted;1484814 wrote: Perhaps those judgements should be kept to ourselves.


That would be quite hateful.

Imagine how backwards we would be if no one corrected anyone.

Do you not correct those you love? If so, why do you not love all of us?

Regards

DL
Ted
Posts: 5652
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:05 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Ted »

I take a balanced approach. If I correct than I follow it with a positive. Someone else's personality is not my business as long as it does not negatively impinge on myself. If it does affect me than I have a choice; present it to him or walk away.
User avatar
Gnostic Christian Bishop
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:25 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Ted;1484848 wrote: I take a balanced approach. If I correct than I follow it with a positive. Someone else's personality is not my business as long as it does not negatively impinge on myself. If it does affect me than I have a choice; present it to him or walk away.


I see correction as the positive and sure, if some sugar can be served with the foul tasting truth then even better.

That is not my forte and Christians and Muslims are quick to spit out any correction that goes against their dogma and no amount of sugar will have them accept the moral truth.

A friend of mine is pure sugar yet Christians and Muslims **** on him for his efforts just as they do with me.

Such is life.

Regards

DL
mjplatt
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:28 am

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by mjplatt »

No, I was responding to the same bible quote you were.....which discourages one to judge others. But one must make countless judgements of other's character and intent day in and day out. If I am a clerk in a store and I see a guy walk in with a mask and a sawed off shotgun I must judge his intentions correctly. Should I just assume he is there to buy some milk and cookies??
User avatar
Gnostic Christian Bishop
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:25 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

mjplatt;1484907 wrote: No, I was responding to the same bible quote you were.....which discourages one to judge others. But one must make countless judgements of other's character and intent day in and day out. If I am a clerk in a store and I see a guy walk in with a mask and a sawed off shotgun I must judge his intentions correctly. Should I just assume he is there to buy some milk and cookies??


We have no area of dispute. I agree that we judge constantly and that it is good to do so.

Scriptures, as usual, contradict each other on this.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

If I apply this quote to your scenario, you would test the idea of that guy being a threat and you would find that he is and hold to that and you would be correct.

Regards

DL
Ted
Posts: 5652
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:05 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Ted »

Are we then judging the person or his actions?
User avatar
Gnostic Christian Bishop
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:25 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Ted;1485046 wrote: Are we then judging the person or his actions?


This is what was given and what I spoke to.

" If I am a clerk in a store and I see a guy walk in with a mask and a sawed off shotgun I must judge his intentions correctly."

I do not see how one would separate a person from his actions but it is the action of dressing in a mask and carrying a shotgun that is judged.

If the actions are those of a thief then it is the thief that is judged as doing the wrong actions.

Note that God says to love the sinner and hate the sin but it is the sinner/thief that will die if a cop sees him robbing the place just as God punishes the sinner for his sins.

If God cannot separate the sinner and his sin then then the fact that I cannot separate a thief from his crime follows ancient and correct thinking.

Regards

DL
Ted
Posts: 5652
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:05 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Ted »

OK now lets ask the question about why he found it necessary to engage in such actions. Like the Virginia TV station atrocity. Turns out the the man was mentally unstable. He surely cannot help the hand that nature had given him. What about "Not guilty by reason of insanity"?
User avatar
Gnostic Christian Bishop
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:25 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Ted;1485057 wrote: OK now lets ask the question about why he found it necessary to engage in such actions. Like the Virginia TV station atrocity. Turns out the the man was mentally unstable. He surely cannot help the hand that nature had given him. What about "Not guilty by reason of insanity"?


I have no problem with an insanity plea if itcan be proven.

If mens rea cannot be passed or met then he is not responsible. No evil mind or evil intent due to insanity works for me.

I do not get how insanity has anything to do with my last.

Regards

DL
Ted
Posts: 5652
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:05 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Ted »

Was the robber sane or insane or was he desperate to feed his children? We need to discern the motivation. That does not excuse bad behaviour but it puts a new light on it.
User avatar
Gnostic Christian Bishop
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:25 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Ted;1485075 wrote: Was the robber sane or insane or was he desperate to feed his children? We need to discern the motivation. That does not excuse bad behaviour but it puts a new light on it.


We are creating a scenario so can make it whatever we like.

What is the question you are trying to answer or situation you try to justify?

Regards

DL
Ted
Posts: 5652
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:05 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Ted »

I'm well aware it is a scenario. There are times in life when some people may do things contrary to our laws and our sense of morality for some very good reasons. The simplest, a person breaks into a home say in a rural area because he has no money and no real means of transport except for a neighbour who is away and so he breaks in to get food for starving children. Condemn him?? I think not. Our society is progressing slowly but not near fast enough to deal with abject poverty some of which we still have in Canada. The impoverished do have at times to break the law just to stay alive.since generally society doesn't seem to care a great deal.
User avatar
Gnostic Christian Bishop
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:25 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Ted;1485124 wrote: I'm well aware it is a scenario. There are times in life when some people may do things contrary to our laws and our sense of morality for some very good reasons. The simplest, a person breaks into a home say in a rural area because he has no money and no real means of transport except for a neighbour who is away and so he breaks in to get food for starving children. Condemn him?? I think not. Our society is progressing slowly but not near fast enough to deal with abject poverty some of which we still have in Canada. The impoverished do have at times to break the law just to stay alive.since generally society doesn't seem to care a great deal.


We used to care and at present I am questioning if we have forgotten how.

Especially men in raising their boys and women in raising their girls.

Your scenario is not a legal or moral problem. It is one of logistics. Most would see a rescue mission and not a crime. If the owner/neighbor would lay a charge, then he would be seen by most of us as a prick.

Regards

DL
Ted
Posts: 5652
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:05 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Ted »

There are many who do care unfortunately not all or even a majority. It is an age old problem from BCE. Jesus showed us in the parable of the Good Samaritan what we should be doing. Far to many folks today live on a meagre income but our society doesn't do much to help. I do my share but an individual can't do much. I've even written governments on this problem and do frequently.
User avatar
LarsMac
Posts: 12159
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:11 pm
Location: Far Out, Man

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by LarsMac »

You two must live in very bad neighborhoods.

Where I live, people are more about caring and giving and helping each other. There are some who only think of what they can get out of other people, but they are far less prevalent than those who care, around these parts.
“All it takes to get elected in twenty-first-century America is a mob of frightened sheep and a wolf with a nice smile,”
― Greg Bear, Darwin's Children
User avatar
Gnostic Christian Bishop
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:25 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

I may have shown you this before but you may have forgotten it. If so, pardon my poor memory.



I also track many of the markers for evil. Slavery, violent death and crime are all at the best levels we have ever enjoyed.

Illegal emigration might change that if E. U. countries get overwhelmed to the point of having to sing ships full of immigrants in self defence of their own welfare.

Regards

DL
User avatar
Gnostic Christian Bishop
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:25 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

LarsMac;1485295 wrote: You two must live in very bad neighborhoods.

Where I live, people are more about caring and giving and helping each other. There are some who only think of what they can get out of other people, but they are far less prevalent than those who care, around these parts.


I am not pessimistic except in one area. Please read the post above.

I cannot see much change in current patterns of the evils we see without the world cooperating more as a one world government. Many fear that.

Especially those who are corrupt or in corrupt systems. They fear an open and transparent governance which a world government would have to guarantee.

An honest and open government is the last thing that most in the worlds want.

Regards

DL
Ted
Posts: 5652
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:05 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Ted »

LarsMac. I love the give and take of a good discussion and a good debate. As far as being helpful and caring goes yoou have absolutely no idea of what I do: foster children, local food kitchen, a nearby family on the meagre welfare they get, free counselling for which I trained.. I could go on but will stop there.
User avatar
LarsMac
Posts: 12159
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:11 pm
Location: Far Out, Man

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by LarsMac »

I wasn't trying to make this personal. You guys spend a lot of time talking about how bad humanity can be. And there is a lot of blame laid to rest at the feet if religion.

Me, I tend to ignore the self-serving hypocrites and pay more attention to the teaching of people like Merton, Bonhoeffer, Gandhi, Ram Dass, The Dalai Lama, folks that are more into what's right about humanity and religious philosophy than what is wrong with the world.

You guys seem like you might be a little more enlightened than many, but maybe you're just in a slump. I don't know. I expect a little more from you, though.
“All it takes to get elected in twenty-first-century America is a mob of frightened sheep and a wolf with a nice smile,”
― Greg Bear, Darwin's Children
Ted
Posts: 5652
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:05 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Ted »

I have never said how bad humanity is. I believe in and accept what the ancients said that "God saw all that he had made and behold it was very good. Humanity is sacred in spite of the things we all do. I do agree with you on your character list above. Great people. But far too many folks son't seem to think for themselves. People can believe as they want. I do not expect them to believe as I do. Some do though. I've spent some 40+ years studying the Bible as a book and was trained in both Hebrew and Greek translation and interpretation. If you don't like what I say then simply do not read it. I can take it either way. I'm not trying to make it personal either. I call it as I see it. I seek the truth no matter what it is.
User avatar
LarsMac
Posts: 12159
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:11 pm
Location: Far Out, Man

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by LarsMac »

Ted;1485382 wrote: I have never said how bad humanity is. I believe in and accept what the ancients said that "God saw all that he had made and behold it was very good. Humanity is sacred in spite of the things we all do. I do agree with you on your character list above. Great people. But far too many folks son't seem to think for themselves. People can believe as they want. I do not expect them to believe as I do. Some do though. I've spent some 40+ years studying the Bible as a book and was trained in both Hebrew and Greek translation and interpretation. If you don't like what I say then simply do not read it. I can take it either way. I'm not trying to make it personal either. I call it as I see it. I seek the truth no matter what it is.


Ummmm, OK.
“All it takes to get elected in twenty-first-century America is a mob of frightened sheep and a wolf with a nice smile,”
― Greg Bear, Darwin's Children
User avatar
Smaug
Posts: 1599
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:44 am

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Smaug »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1485324 wrote: I am not pessimistic except in one area. Please read the post above.

I cannot see much change in current patterns of the evils we see without the world cooperating more as a one world government. Many fear that.

Especially those who are corrupt or in corrupt systems. They fear an open and transparent governance which a world government would have to guarantee.

An honest and open government is the last thing that most in the worlds want.

Regards

DL


Given our current ethics/corruption/greed/power problems at present, I think that a 'One-World' government is the last thing we need at present.

Many systems are corrupt; centralizing all that scurrilous behaivour, then extending that influence GLOBALLY gives me 'the screaming willies',

to-coin-a-phrase!

No doubt the newly-elected 'World Govt.' would say all manner of soothing things to placate and reassure us, but it would be 'business as usual' behind the 'closed-door'...

I think that your're wrong about most people preferring corrupt governance. Most people I know would find honesty and transparency in government a refreshing and welcome change. I know I certainly would!!
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
User avatar
Gnostic Christian Bishop
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:25 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Smaug;1485402 wrote: Given our current ethics/corruption/greed/power problems at present, I think that a 'One-World' government is the last thing we need at present.

Many systems are corrupt; centralizing all that scurrilous behaivour, then extending that influence GLOBALLY gives me 'the screaming willies',

to-coin-a-phrase!

No doubt the newly-elected 'World Govt.' would say all manner of soothing things to placate and reassure us, but it would be 'business as usual' behind the 'closed-door'...

I think that your're wrong about most people preferring corrupt governance. Most people I know would find honesty and transparency in government a refreshing and welcome change. I know I certainly would!!


The old and corrupt will not change.

Only a new, open and transparent government can start fresh and clean and stay that way. All of it's workings would be in front of a camera. That way the whole world would know how and why laws get passed.

It is doable but the corrupted governments world wide will never end their corrupt ways until their people French Revolutions them.

Democracy, as I understand it, is a system that was initially invented to govern the masses but also to teach the masses how to govern themselves in a civilized way. Equivalent. if you will, to Jesus saying that we must be reborn with the law written in our hearts.

Instead, our governments, instead of a set of laws that all would know and follow, have produced laws by the hundreds of thousand just to maintain the Noble Lie.

Repeal of that Noble Lie must happen before any new and better regimes can be put into place.

If we lived in democracies we might have a chance of doing so without a French type revolution but we all live in oligarchies and our masters are not about to allow a more enlightened population. Dummies and sheeple are easier to control than a well informed and clear thinking population that has an open government and who knows all the facts that their governance is working with.

The American dream has become a nightmare and the people are too dumbed down to recognize it or awaken from it to see just how badly they are getting screwed by our oligarch owners and their political lackeys.

Regards

DL
Ted
Posts: 5652
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:05 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Ted »

I can agree with this. In Canada we elect the same or a new dictator every 4-5 years. Our present government is one I believe ran on openness and transparency and it has been neither. Hopefully things will change. Will it????
User avatar
Gnostic Christian Bishop
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:25 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Ted;1485455 wrote: I can agree with this. In Canada we elect the same or a new dictator every 4-5 years. Our present government is one I believe ran on openness and transparency and it has been neither. Hopefully things will change. Will it????


Scholars indicate that the world seeks to unite in one huge tribe and will eventually seek to unite in a global government.

Those who believe in our oligarch owners, have dubbed them the Illuminati. I do not know if such a group exists, but if not, we will eventually create one and force cooperation of the oligarchs.

The people must rebel and end end the world wide game of thrones or Monopoly.

It will not be bad if our oligarch owners cooperate and elect a head Illuminatus to rule the world.

If they do not then they will die.

Regards

DL
Ted
Posts: 5652
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:05 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Ted »

Which scholars?
User avatar
Gnostic Christian Bishop
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:25 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Ted;1485529 wrote: Which scholars?


Many but this is a good starting point.

Yuval Noah Harari: Humankind United? | TVO.org

Regards

DL
Ted
Posts: 5652
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:05 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Ted »

There are those who mistakenly think they are scholars but their work does no pass the scrutiny of bona fide peer reviews. It is best to go to the scholars that have received world wide recognition.
User avatar
Gnostic Christian Bishop
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:25 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Ted;1485680 wrote: There are those who mistakenly think they are scholars but their work does no pass the scrutiny of bona fide peer reviews. It is best to go to the scholars that have received world wide recognition.


Now that was ignorant.

Regards

DL
Ted
Posts: 5652
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:05 pm

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Ted »

I suspect that some are honest about their self judgement.

Return to “General Religious Discussions”