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Mickiel
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Post by Mickiel »

I am considering that religion was planted on earth by an outside source. Like a Trojan horse, it was positioned into the consciousness of humanity; there to stay and grow.

One thing we all know; once we get our hands on something, its never no telling what we will do with it. Seems to be no limit to what extremes humans will go to.
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Post by Mickiel »

You know, and this is speculation because I don't know, I think sometimes that God uses certain angels to literally plant things into the entire human populace; and by things I mean principles, or speculations and notions; and I think religion was perhaps born in a similar way as that. Even myths may have been implanted by these incredible unknown sources, which some of us choose to name " Aliens." And Alien could be an angel in disguise. You ever heard the expression, " Take the ball and run with it?' Well I think these Angels knew that is how humans are; prone to the power of suggestion, especially if we cannot physically see the source the suggestion is coming from, then the human can think its coming from within their own minds, created by themselves.

Humans will always try to make things last which they think they have created.
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Post by Mickiel »

The Alien visitation I think were Angels who planted religion in the consciousness of humanity. In the sixth chapter of the book of Revelation, 7 seals are opened, or unleashed , or planted in humanity and false religion is the first; a White Horse, that " Trojan Horse" I referred to. And it conquered humanity's consciousness. Its there to stay until God himself removes it.

This is beyond general, its a much more deeper look into religion.

But what was God's reasoning for doing this? And how can we know he did it?
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Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1477623 wrote: The Alien visitation I think were Angels who planted religion in the consciousness of humanity. In the sixth chapter of the book of Revelation, 7 seals are opened, or unleashed , or planted in humanity and false religion is the first; a White Horse, that " Trojan Horse" I referred to. And it conquered humanity's consciousness. Its there to stay until God himself removes it.

This is beyond general, its a much more deeper look into religion.

But what was God's reasoning for doing this? And how can we know he did it?




Well we can know first by Genesis 2:8-9, where we are told that God is " Planting things on earth", these things are said to be trees that are good for food, which can also mean things that humanity will ingest and digest into our system. One Tree is called " The Knowledge of Good and Evil", so this certainly means we can digest knowledge into our belief systems; things which God had planted himself, or planted himself. And these things , these different types of knowledge, are both good and evil; there is the confusion right there, and religion embodies this strange mixture.
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Post by Mickiel »

So religion is not all good, and its not all evil, its really a mixture of both; so it is not pure. There are good religious people and good religions; conversely there are evil religions and evil religious people; and then there are the most confusing- a deadly mixture of the two.
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Post by FourPart »

Throughout history, whenever a primitive culture has come to encounter those of a much more technologically advanced culture, they have worshipped them as Gods. It seems far more plausible to me that aliens visited the earth, eons ago & were immediately regarded by the primitives of the time as Angels / Gods. In reality it doesn't mean they were of any supernatural source at all. They just didn't understand who or what they were, therefore, as always, before & since, the unknown becomes attributed to 'God'.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1477642 wrote: Throughout history, whenever a primitive culture has come to encounter those of a much more technologically advanced culture, they have worshipped them as Gods. It seems far more plausible to me that aliens visited the earth, eons ago & were immediately regarded by the primitives of the time as Angels / Gods. In reality it doesn't mean they were of any supernatural source at all. They just didn't understand who or what they were, therefore, as always, before & since, the unknown becomes attributed to 'God'.




Well I think that is true, more likely what really did happen. Supernatural? I think yes. Something you Atheist must grapple with and avoid. Its other worldly for sure.

Unless you have another explination; I am all ears.
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Post by FourPart »

'Supernatural' is a term, too easily used, to refer to that part of nature which is not yet understood. Just because we don't understand something, doesn't make it any less natural.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1477806 wrote: 'Supernatural' is a term, too easily used, to refer to that part of nature which is not yet understood. Just because we don't understand something, doesn't make it any less natural.


Well that is true, but some terms used are better than no term used to describe. Unless we simply say we do not know. The unknown is not transparent, but I still view life as a result of " Deliberate things"; it was deliberately done. Science is deliberate in some areas, experimental in others; but even science has a supernatural component to it.
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Post by FourPart »

Apology

Plato's account of the trial of Socrates. (Translated by Benjamin Jowett.)

When I left him, I reasoned thus with myself: I am wiser than this man, for neither of us appears to know anything great and good; but he fancies he knows something, although he knows nothing; whereas I, as I do not know anything, so I do not fancy I do. In this trifling particular, then, I appear to be wiser than he, because I do not fancy I know what I do not know.
(Socrates - Wikiquote)
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1478122 wrote: (Socrates - Wikiquote)




I have a sense about me that is supernatural, its been there for quite sometime. And it has served my understanding very well. B
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Post by ZAP »

Mickiel;1478149 wrote: I have a sense about me that is supernatural, its been there for quite sometime. And it has served my understanding very well. B


That's an interesting comment. Why do you say that?
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Post by Mickiel »

ZAP;1478154 wrote: That's an interesting comment. Why do you say that?


Well because I know its there, and has been there since my youth; I remember it from at least 8 years old. I was on the porch and 4 other little boys walked up to me and asked me to be their leader. They said we want to be like you, and I was shocked! I'm just 8 years old. And stuff like that has kept happening to me all my life, most of which I cannot explain. People warming up to me , trusting in me, wanting to follow me, ( and I NEVER allowed that to happen, I never started a group, outside of a bible study in college). Its like " Somethingelse was always there with me."

Even when I write, it always garners much attention, as if somethingelse is drawing the people to it, not me. And the way I see things has always been different, especially spiritual and religious things. My senses are in no way natural. There is somethingelse to it; I mean, I don't know what, but I know its something.
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Post by FourPart »

I believe in telepathy, even though there is no evidence to prove it actually exists, but that's simply because we haven't yet found the evidence, yet I am sure it exists & that we will find it one day. Until then I believe it exists although I don't know how it works. That doesn't make it supernatural. It's just a natural phenomenon that we don't understand.... yet.
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Post by ZAP »

I definitely believe in mental telepathy, among other super normal abilities. When my oldest daughter was about 3 years old, I thought that she possessed the ability to read my mind. Quite by chance she came into contact with a psychologist who thought the same thing and wanted to put her into a study program but I refused, thinking that it would prevent her from having a normal childhood. I'm sorry now in a way that I didn't at least try it for a while. The psychologist told me that this ability was strongest when the child was very young and that gradually it was lost as the child gets older. Now a grown woman, my daughter shows nothing of that ability.
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Post by Mickiel »

I believe in Dejavu; I can't prove it, but I have experienced it and I know its real, and I know its not natural; its un natural, its supernatural.
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Post by ZAP »

Mickiel;1478160 wrote: I believe in Dejavu; I can't prove it, but I have experienced it and I know its real, and I know its not natural; its un natural, its supernatural.


I believe in it too. I call it and other observations paranormal, but supernatural is the same thing. Here's a good definition:

Paranormal



From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is about unexplained phenomena. For phenomena not subject to the laws of nature, see supernatural. For unexplained but presumed natural phenomena, see preternatural.

Paranormal events are phenomena described in popular culture, folklore and other non-scientific bodies of knowledge, whose existence within these contexts is described to lie beyond normal experience or scientific explanation.[1][2][3][4]

A paranormal phenomenon is different from hypothetical concepts such as dark matter and dark energy. Unlike paranormal phenomena, these hypothetical concepts are based on empirical observations and experimental data gained through the scientific method.[5]

The most notable paranormal beliefs include those that pertain to ghosts, extraterrestrial life, unidentified flying objects, psychic abilities or extrasensory perception and cryptids.[6]
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Post by Mickiel »

Well I think religion has had paranormal effects on some people, I think romance has done the same; anger has caused some supernatural responses in some humans, goodness, even drugs has had some effects on people that just cannot be explained. Love has done things to people that are un natural, even affection itself can be un natural.
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Post by FourPart »

If something happens, then it is natural.

If something that is supernatural happens, then it is natural that it happens.

Therefore supernatural is natural.

(that's a bit like a Haiku)

The same can be said for something being Paranormal.

There are many things in nature that we don't understand. We don't understand why we sleep. We don't understand why, when we do sleep, we dream. We don't understand why we have conciousness. Just because we can't explain these things in nature doesn't make them supernatural. They exist. We accept that they exist. One day, perhaps, we will understand them. Until then, they are unexplained, not supernatural.

If you think about it, everything is average, be it 'Above Average' or 'Below Average', because by the very nature of averages, everything is included.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1478194 wrote: If something happens, then it is natural.

If something that is supernatural happens, then it is natural that it happens.

Therefore supernatural is natural.

(that's a bit like a Haiku)

The same can be said for something being Paranormal.

There are many things in nature that we don't understand. We don't understand why we sleep. We don't understand why, when we do sleep, we dream. We don't understand why we have conciousness. Just because we can't explain these things in nature doesn't make them supernatural. They exist. We accept that they exist. One day, perhaps, we will understand them. Until then, they are unexplained, not supernatural.

If you think about it, everything is average, be it 'Above Average' or 'Below Average', because by the very nature of averages, everything is included.




Supernatural is natural, but Atheist cynicism cannot remove or reduce the " Super" from it. Its still Super, its still extreme , excessive, above and beyond; it exceeds limitations and is not normal. When natural things go above what is normal, that is not normal, its unusual and odd; and its not supposed to be odd. Supernatural goes beyond Atheist limitations and efforts to reduce it and make it plain.

When a mother and a child get run over by a truck, completely run over and hit by all sets of wheels, that is not natural or normal for them to survive with not a scratch; its supernatural and it was not supposed to happen.
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Post by FourPart »

Mickiel;1478215 wrote: Supernatural is natural, but Atheist cynicism cannot remove or reduce the " Super" from it. Its still Super, its still extreme , excessive, above and beyond; it exceeds limitations and is not normal. When natural things go above what is normal, that is not normal, its unusual and odd; and its not supposed to be odd. Supernatural goes beyond Atheist limitations and efforts to reduce it and make it plain.

When a mother and a child get run over by a truck, completely run over and hit by all sets of wheels, that is not natural or normal for them to survive with not a scratch; its supernatural and it was not supposed to happen.


It's not Supernatural at all. It's a matter of Probability. Probability 1 is that it is certain to happen. Probability 0 is that it is certain not to happen. In science there is very rarely anything that is an absolute probability 1 or 0, as there is always that miniscule unknown quantity, known as 'Factor X'. As with the example of the lorry for instance, there might be the possibility of a sudden earthquake, throwing the lorry off balance, taking the weight off of one side of its wheel. Yes, the likelyhood is HIGHLY improbable, but the remote possibility is still there, thus meaning that the Probability can never be 0 or 1. In order for something to be Supernatural it would mean that Probabilities would have to be more than 1 or less than 0.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1478216 wrote: It's not Supernatural at all. It's a matter of Probability. Probability 1 is that it is certain to happen. Probability 0 is that it is certain not to happen. In science there is very rarely anything that is an absolute probability 1 or 0, as there is always that miniscule unknown quantity, known as 'Factor X'. As with the example of the lorry for instance, there might be the possibility of a sudden earthquake, throwing the lorry off balance, taking the weight off of one side of its wheel. Yes, the likelyhood is HIGHLY improbable, but the remote possibility is still there, thus meaning that the Probability can never be 0 or 1. In order for something to be Supernatural it would mean that Probabilities would have to be more than 1 or less than 0.




You love science so much, you think it applies to everything. Romance and Love have no probabilities; no physical gauges, no measuring scales, they are not even visible to the human eye. There are no probabilities that romance will come to any person, because of where they live, how they look, what they wear, how they think, what they believe, weather they are Theist or Atheist, no matter what race, no matter how tall or short they are; there is no science to explain romance and Love, and there are no probabilities to them. They simply exist; they are and will be, they hold their own dynamics that exist outside of science.

Its the same for Spirituality, and for;

Hate

Jealously

Envy

Suffering

Religion

Joy

Patience

Lust

Fear

Karma

Dejavu

Communication

Your reaction to anything that I write.
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As I said, emotions are things that are not understood, apart from the fact that they are required in their basest elements for the procreation of the species. They mainly break down to Territory & Breeding.

There is a scientific explanation for anything, and part of that science is to accept that we don't know what that explanation is. However, that doesn't mean that the explanation doesn't exist.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1478223 wrote: As I said, emotions are things that are not understood, apart from the fact that they are required in their basest elements for the procreation of the species. They mainly break down to Territory & Breeding.

There is a scientific explanation for anything, and part of that science is to accept that we don't know what that explanation is. However, that doesn't mean that the explanation doesn't exist.




What is the scientific explanation for God?
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Post by FourPart »

Mickiel;1478240 wrote: What is the scientific explanation for God?
That which does not exist can have no explanation.

That which exists only in the imagination cannot be explained as imagination is yet unexplained.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1478241 wrote: That which does not exist can have no explanation.

That which exists only in the imagination cannot be explained as imagination is yet unexplained.


So explain to us why every dictionary has an explanation and definition for God but science does not?
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Post by FourPart »

No dictionary has a definition for God. Just the meaning of the word.
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Post by Mickiel »

Religion is an implant, in Rev. 12:9 the devil has deceived the whole world; has the whole world thinking things that are not true; religion is a large part of that deception. It reveals how man can believe that something is good, and see no evil in it.
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Post by FourPart »

Mickiel;1478277 wrote: Religion is an implant, in Rev. 12:9 the devil has deceived the whole world; has the whole world thinking things that are not true; religion is a large part of that deception. It reveals how man can believe that something is good, and see no evil in it.


Sounds more like a description of the Tory Party.
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Post by Mickiel »

Religion is a permanent tattoo on the consciousness of humanity, but not everyone is wearing it. But humanity has been tattooed with it none the less.
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And we've all seen the unsavoury places people get tattooed.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1478284 wrote: And we've all seen the unsavoury places people get tattooed.


The consciousness is the worst place to get religion tattooed. The bible speaks of " The mark of the Beast", which I think is " Influencing human minds", the mark is the imprint made on our minds, how we think. And religion has painted such a false picture of God, its confused the world.
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Post by Mickiel »

The mark of the beast, or the seduction of the human mind; the implanting of the ways and means of thinking; the beginning of concepts that we hold so dear, and those we hate, all injected by outside sources.

We, humanity, suckers for the power of suggestion.
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Religion is Man-Made. It is Humanity that makes the suggestions & implants them & calls them the Will of God.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1478620 wrote: Religion is Man-Made. It is Humanity that makes the suggestions & implants them & calls them the Will of God.


Religion was an idea made by non humans, for humans to sup up like gravy on bread. We cannot rely on Atheist to see this, because they are part of blinded humanity; and we cannot rely on Theist to see this, because they are the other half of the blindness;

and if humanity could have seen this, they would have never fallen for it.
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Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1478743 wrote: Religion was an idea made by non humans, for humans to sup up like gravy on bread. We cannot rely on Atheist to see this, because they are part of blinded humanity; and we cannot rely on Theist to see this, because they are the other half of the blindness;

and if humanity could have seen this, they would have never fallen for it.




Why were we blinded in the first place? Why is so much yet hidden from humanity? Well I think part of it is that in truth, the real reality that exist outside of humanity, is so bright, so full of wonder, so far from what we know now, that God is actually " Slowly breaking us into his reality", but he is Spirit, his world is a Spirit world; we are physical, so we would have to cross a great bridge to even begin to comprehend our true destiny; because what we know now, IS NOT OUR DESTINY! This is temporary physical chemical existence. God is Good, but in order for us to know good, we had to first know evil.

Before God introduces himself to humanity, he first wanted to introduce us to all that he is against! And religion is actually a lesson from God in how things which seem to be good, can contain evil. How humanity, left to itself, will worship itself and create gods, religions, even groups that do not believe anything; in other words, without his guidance, we would go through the entire rainbow of human imagination and immorality. We can't even trust religion; we can't trust science, we can't trust Atheism, we can't even trust human peace.

So we were blinded to protect us from the light! The true light is just too overwhelming! Too good to be true. And the true gospel is just like that, too good to be true; we all are destined to live in this light that is God.

But we have to crawl before we walk. And its hard to make a grown human crawl. Hard for us to see, but not hard for God to do. And this is why we all must suffer, because we have to be transferred from the physical to the spiritual, from madness to joy!

And religion is one of the designed figments we were given, to stretch all out of shape.
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The atheists blinded to humanity? That's a laugh. Was it the atheists who committed all the atrocities through the ages - crimes against humanity - in the glorious name of God & Jesus Christ? I think not!! I don't even consider myself as Atheist. An Atheist simply doesn't believe in Religion. I don't only not believe in it, I am totally opposed to it. The entire concept of it is inhumane & sets about to do the very evils it claims to be against.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1478756 wrote: The atheists blinded to humanity? That's a laugh. Was it the atheists who committed all the atrocities through the ages - crimes against humanity - in the glorious name of God & Jesus Christ? I think not!! I don't even consider myself as Atheist. An Atheist simply doesn't believe in Religion. I don't only not believe in it, I am totally opposed to it. The entire concept of it is inhumane & sets about to do the very evils it claims to be against.




The Atheist didn't need to use the name of God to commit their crimes against humanity; and I understand that you don't consider yourself an Atheist, you just talk like one; and you perhaps don't even believe Atheist can be historical criminals.

I can help you see that if you need the help.
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FourPart;1478756 wrote: The atheists blinded to humanity? That's a laugh. Was it the atheists who committed all the atrocities through the ages - crimes against humanity - in the glorious name of God & Jesus Christ? I think not!! I don't even consider myself as Atheist. An Atheist simply doesn't believe in Religion. I don't only not believe in it, I am totally opposed to it. The entire concept of it is inhumane & sets about to do the very evils it claims to be against.


Throughout history, wars have been started in the name(s) of different faiths. Why? because each faith thinks it has a monopoly on "God" and "Righteousness". The Crusades is a classic example, the Spanish inquisition is another. Religion itself is not usually the problem, its the "power men" of that particular faith whipping up indignation, or even hatred, for their own ends, usually. All these "men of God" killing, maiming, torturing and enslaving others! Some paradox, isn't it?

I can quite understand why atheism is alive and well. After all, atheists didn't commit these atrocities!

Consider this also; When we talk to God, it' called praying. When he talks to us, it's called paranoid schizophrenia!:wah:
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Post by LarsMac »

Smaug;1478777 wrote: Throughout history, wars have been started in the name(s) of different faiths. Why? because each faith thinks it has a monopoly on "God" and "Righteousness". The Crusades is a classic example, the Spanish inquisition is another. Religion itself is not usually the problem, its the "power men" of that particular faith whipping up indignation, or even hatred, for their own ends, usually. All these "men of God" killing, maiming, torturing and enslaving others! Some paradox, isn't it?

I can quite understand why atheism is alive and well. After all, atheists didn't commit these atrocities!


That has become as tired an argument as any the religious nutcases have come up with.

Wars are generally fought over resources. The powers that be simply find religion an easy way to rile up the masses.

And God did NOT invent religion. That is a vehicle of humans. They invented it all by themselves.

I highly recommend the book, 'Shardik' by Richard Adams.

In it he explores how religions can get fired up, and how they become a force of their own. One of my favorite modern age books.
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Post by Smaug »

LarsMac;1478779 wrote: That has become as tired an argument as any the religious nutcases have come up with.

Wars are generally fought over resources. The powers that be simply find religion an easy way to rile up the masses.

And God did NOT invent religion. That is a vehicle of humans. They invented it all by themselves.

I highly recommend the book, 'Shardik' by Richard Adams.

In it he explores how religions can get fired up, and how they become a force of their own. One of my favorite modern age books.


Tell that to ISIS! Their war IS about religion (extreme Islam,to be precise). However, I agree that most wars are about resources and territory.
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Post by FourPart »

Religion is about Power. The Power to force you to accept that my Invisible Friend is the Right on, and yours is not. Otherwise I'll kill you brutally in the name of Peace & Love. Amen.

Religion is like a cancer. It starts as an innocuous tumour, then spreads until it eventually becomes the killer it is, without a care for the survival of its host. It has but one goal, and that is to dominate everything it can with its malignancy.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1478788 wrote: Religion is about Power. The Power to force you to accept that my Invisible Friend is the Right on, and yours is not. Otherwise I'll kill you brutally in the name of Peace & Love. Amen.

Religion is like a cancer. It starts as an innocuous tumour, then spreads until it eventually becomes the killer it is, without a care for the survival of its host. It has but one goal, and that is to dominate everything it can with its malignancy.




Politics is about power and force;

Romance is about power and force

Jealousy is about power and force

Competition is about power and force

Sports is about power and force

Atheism is about power and force.

Nothing is excluded from power and force, and it is shortsighted to think only religion is about it. But if one views religion through biased eyes or with a chip on the shoulder, you are trying to demonize, what was full of demons before you were born.
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Mickiel
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Post by Mickiel »

Hate is like a cancer

Envy is like a cancer

Racism is like a cancer

Ignorance is like a cancer

Both Theism and Atheism is like a cancer; neither can be excluded, except by the blindness of its componants.
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Mickiel
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When religious discussion is no longer General.

Post by Mickiel »

Hate is like a cancer

Envy is like a cancer

Racism is like a cancer

Ignorance is like a cancer

Both Theism and Atheism is like a cancer; neither can be excluded, except by the blindness of its constiuants.
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FourPart
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When religious discussion is no longer General.

Post by FourPart »

Mickiel;1478821 wrote:

Atheism is about power and force.


Not so. Atheism is merely the non belief in Religion. That does not discount those who may also be Atheists from being about Power & Force. Other wise it's like saying "I have a brown dog. My brown dog is afraid of cats, therefore all brown dogs are afraid of cats".
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Mickiel
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1478897 wrote: Not so. Atheism is merely the non belief in Religion. That does not discount those who may also be Atheists from being about Power & Force. Other wise it's like saying "I have a brown dog. My brown dog is afraid of cats, therefore all brown dogs are afraid of cats".




Atheism may be a " Merely this little thing" to you, but to me its a way of life for many; its a deep passion for many; its a power and a force, and my mind is unaffected by things which seek to reduce it to a simpleton kind of thing, as you are trying to do for sake of argument. Atheism is a great piece of a forming complex puzzle;

and religion is as well.
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Mickiel
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Post by Mickiel »

Manipulation is why religion is no longer general information, and its why religion cannot be generally dismissed. We have been manipulated by God's plans for humanity, which supersede anythingelse in reality. Because God is good, everything that he does has a good purpose, so we don't have to worry about being manipulated; but it helps the consciousness to understand that we are just " Outclassed." Its nothing we can do about a power like his.

He wanted us all to get wet.

And we got wet and are wet and will be wet until he dries us out.

And religion is part of that water.
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Post by FourPart »

The God concept is man made. Your entire argument there jumps out at me to be just like the teachings of any Dictatorship. Just replace the term 'God' with the Dictatorship in question. "Nazism is good", "Marx is good", Kim Jong Un" is good"...

You see a pattern forming?
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Mickiel
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1479031 wrote: The God concept is man made. Your entire argument there jumps out at me to be just like the teachings of any Dictatorship. Just replace the term 'God' with the Dictatorship in question. "Nazism is good", "Marx is good", Kim Jong Un" is good"...

You see a pattern forming?




Here's a pattern for you; whenever you're right to not believe in God is removed, I will remove my right to believe; but as long as you can refuse to believe, I can believe. And I am just like you, as long as I can, I will, and no concept you will ever write can change that. And in this thread, I am forming a back round;

you see a back round forming?
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