God is a good judge! You joke. Right?

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LarsMac
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Post by LarsMac »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1493114 wrote: We shall see if our friend agrees with the reason you gave.

Is there such a thing as a true Christian teaching, and if so, where do I find it?

Regards

DL


Generally in the new Testament, and in the writings of people like Paul Tillich, or Thomas Merton. Even Bonhoeffer.
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

LarsMac;1493115 wrote: Generally in the new Testament, and in the writings of people like Paul Tillich, or Thomas Merton. Even Bonhoeffer.


Here, in part, is what I think of the Rome created wimp Jesus of the N.T.



That Jesus does not have worthy morals.

Just his views on divorce, no divorce, is all one needs to know to condemn Jesus and his POV.

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DL
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Post by LarsMac »

Well, THAT was 15 minutes I will never get back.
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Post by FourPart »

Jesus' view on divorce actually seems a bit contradictory:

"Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery" (Matthew 19:7-9).

Note - "Divorce your wives" - plural - therefore, a polygamous marriage. How, then, can marrying another woman be considered adultery?

The original biblical definition of marriage (or interpretation of such) mentions nothing of marriage. It just mentions: "A man shall leave his Father & Mother & be joined to his Wife, and the two shall become one flesh", where the term 'Wife' simply means a mate. The act of becoming 'one flesh' simply refers to copulation.

As usual, it all goes on to be interpretation, and then interpretations of interpretations, etc. An unending chain of Chinese Whispers.
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Post by LarsMac »

FourPart;1493122 wrote: Jesus' view on divorce actually seems a bit contradictory:

"Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery" (Matthew 19:7-9).

Note - "Divorce your wives" - plural - therefore, a polygamous marriage. How, then, can marrying another woman be considered adultery?

The original biblical definition of marriage (or interpretation of such) mentions nothing of marriage. It just mentions: "A man shall leave his Father & Mother & be joined to his Wife, and the two shall become one flesh", where the term 'Wife' simply means a mate. The act of becoming 'one flesh' simply refers to copulation.

As usual, it all goes on to be interpretation, and then interpretations of interpretations, etc. An unending chain of Chinese Whispers.


Another interpretation of Matthew 19:7-9:

What Jesus said was not really about divorce.
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

LarsMac;1493119 wrote: Well, THAT was 15 minutes I will never get back.


Seems that morals are not your forte. I am trying to make it mine.

Perhaps that is why I seed the immorality in what the scribes put into Jesus' mouth.

A shame you do not.

Perhaps this will help.

Jonathan Haidt: The moral roots of liberals and conservatives | TED Talk | TED.com

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DL
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

LarsMac;1493125 wrote: Another interpretation of Matthew 19:7-9:

What Jesus said was not really about divorce.


??

What then was he talking about?

Further, do you know what Jesus' policy on divorce was if not as given above?

Your denial without even an attempt at an argument is rather childish my friend. Not a good way to discuss or debate as you give nothing but a denial without a correction.

Take a lesson from our friend who knew how to deny while showing you why and trying to correct you.

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DL
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Post by LarsMac »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1493130 wrote: Seems that morals are not your forte. I am trying to make it mine.

Perhaps that is why I seed the immorality in what the scribes put into Jesus' mouth.

A shame you do not.

Perhaps this will help.

Jonathan Haidt: The moral roots of liberals and conservatives | TED Talk | TED.com

Regards

DL


Gnostic Christian Bishop;1493131 wrote: ??

What then was he talking about?

Further, do you know what Jesus' policy on divorce was if not as given above?

Your denial without even an attempt at an argument is rather childish my friend. Not a good way to discuss or debate as you give nothing but a denial without a correction.

Take a lesson from our friend who knew how to deny while showing you why and trying to correct you.

Regards

DL


Perhaps if you spent less time judging and criticizing, and more time thinking about it, you would see for yourself. You often sound just like all of those literalists for whom you have such animosity.

More to the point than Matthew 19, is Matthew 5: 27-28

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[a] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


When Jesus was talking about to these men, he was telling them that they should look to their heart. Moses and the law did, indeed, provide for them to put away their wives through divorce, but what did that mean? They had vowed at marriage to live their life with the woman who was now their wife, and yet, now they wish to put that wife away, like an old horse they they no longer found useful. They were abandoning the vows they had made to her, to their families, and to their God. When they have done that, they have already committing the unfaithfulness of adultery in their hearts. They were already unfaithful. To all of those to whom they had made their vows. And they think that God does not already see that?

If they can abandon their vows so easily, of what use are they to God, or their families, or their nation?
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

LarsMac;1493119 wrote: Well, THAT was 15 minutes I will never get back.


That's why I don't blindly watch stuff people tell me to. Say it in the post, give a synopsis, then add the link. It's the lazy way, merely giving a link to youtube without explanation. You have no one to blame but yourself Lars.
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Post by LarsMac »

AnneBoleyn;1493145 wrote: That's why I don't blindly watch stuff people tell me to. Say it in the post, give a synopsis, then add the link. It's the lazy way, merely giving a link to youtube without explanation. You have no one to blame but yourself Lars.


Alas, you are correct, Anne. I usually just ignore YouTube links like that, but I thought, just once, to make an exception. Silly me.

I may do the TED talk. They can be very interesting.
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

LarsMac;1493142 wrote: Perhaps if you spent less time judging and criticizing, and more time thinking about it, you would see for yourself. You often sound just like all of those literalists for whom you have such animosity.

More to the point than Matthew 19, is Matthew 5: 27-28





When Jesus was talking about to these men, he was telling them that they should look to their heart. Moses and the law did, indeed, provide for them to put away their wives through divorce, but what did that mean? They had vowed at marriage to live their life with the woman who was now their wife, and yet, now they wish to put that wife away, like an old horse they they no longer found useful. They were abandoning the vows they had made to her, to their families, and to their God. When they have done that, they have already committing the unfaithfulness of adultery in their hearts. They were already unfaithful. To all of those to whom they had made their vows. And they think that God does not already see that?

If they can abandon their vows so easily, of what use are they to God, or their families, or their nation?


Don't know, don't care.

The issue was the morality of what Jesus was teaching of his no divorce policy.

When you and I decide on the morality of that policy, then we can speak of the morality of thought crimes or sins. If one can even say that a thought can be a sin.

Stop deflecting from the issue of Jesus and his immoral teachings. Your ploy is quite transparent and obvious.

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DL
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Post by LarsMac »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1493154 wrote: Don't know, don't care.

The issue was the morality of what Jesus was teaching of his no divorce policy.

When you and I decide on the morality of that policy, then we can speak of the morality of thought crimes or sins. If one can even say that a thought can be a sin.

Stop deflecting from the issue of Jesus and his immoral teachings. Your ploy is quite transparent and obvious.

Regards

DL


The issue is whether you even understand what Jesus taught.

You just another Literalist, it seems.

Sorry about that. But, it's time to wake up.
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

LarsMac;1493156 wrote: The issue is whether you even understand what Jesus taught.

You just another Literalist, it seems.

Sorry about that. But, it's time to wake up.


Denial and branding. A losers last stand.



I understand enough to know that his no divorce policy is quite immoral and anti-love.

I also see that you running from giving an argument for your position and that show that it is you who does not know that that is an immoral teaching.

An honest man would just shut up and slink away and not just deny and brand.

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DL
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Post by LarsMac »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1493160 wrote: Denial and branding. A losers last stand.


That has seemed to be your forte since you arrived here.

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1493160 wrote:

I understand enough to know that his no divorce policy is quite immoral and anti-love.


Ummm, OK.

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1493160 wrote:

I also see that you running from giving an argument for your position and that show that it is you who does not know that that is an immoral teaching.




Actually, I have more to say about "my position" but you have already made it clear that you intend to reject it, out of hand, so I see no real need to put in the effort.

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1493160 wrote:

An honest man would just shut up and slink away and not just deny and brand.




Funny, I don't see you slinking away, yet. More's the pity.
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Post by Ted »

The words about divorce--From Jesus or words put in his mouth by the evangelist.
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Post by LarsMac »

Well, it is really funny that I never really see the words attributed to Jesus as banning divorce.

Please show me where Jesus says that you cannot divorce.
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Ted;1493166 wrote: The words about divorce--From Jesus or words put in his mouth by the evangelist.


Your choice as to what you want to believe. I blame the scribes.

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Post by Ted »

Requires a lot of study on the ancient style of writing. It is called midrash. Once that is understood then the Bible, whether you believe in it or not, makes much more sense. Liberalism in my view is a heresy. The stuff we have heaped on the head of one Jesus of Nazareth is pathetic.
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Post by LarsMac »

Ted;1493177 wrote: Requires a lot of study on the ancient style of writing. It is called midrash. Once that is understood then the Bible, whether you believe in it or not, makes much more sense. Liberalism in my view is a heresy. The stuff we have heaped on the head of one Jesus of Nazareth is pathetic.


Well, that leaves some people out. They simply wish to have their opinion, and hold it, without really having any discussion that might differ with that opinion.
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Ted;1493177 wrote: Requires a lot of study on the ancient style of writing. It is called midrash. Once that is understood then the Bible, whether you believe in it or not, makes much more sense. Liberalism in my view is a heresy. The stuff we have heaped on the head of one Jesus of Nazareth is pathetic.


Liberalism or literalism?

If literalism, I agree.

If liberalism, I do not agree, if I understand the meaning of that word correctly. If you did not use the right word then good, if you did, please define that a bit.

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Post by LarsMac »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1493188 wrote: Liberalism or literalism?

If literalism, I agree.

If liberalism, I do not agree, if I understand the meaning of that word correctly. If you did not use the right word then good, if you did, please define that a bit.

Regards

DL


Wow! we agree on something

Literalism is the killer, IMHO. Too many people want to hold on to the exact literal interpretation of "The Word" and we find ourselves in way too much trouble over that.
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

LarsMac;1493190 wrote: Wow! we agree on something

Literalism is the killer, IMHO. Too many people want to hold on to the exact literal interpretation of "The Word" and we find ourselves in way too much trouble over that.


:-4:-4

Don't tell my wife.

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DL
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Post by Ted »

Being the Messiah does not mean the individual has to be God. The term refers to the anointed one. God can anoint whomever He/She/It chooses. We have much to learn from Jesus. He did show us the way. For that he did not have to be Divine in any separate sense. We are to follow his way and not worry about all of the theological appendages added to him. The church the anti-Christ? I do not believe so. The anti-Christ is just another myth.
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Ted;1493336 wrote: Being the Messiah does not mean the individual has to be God. The term refers to the anointed one. God can anoint whomever He/She/It chooses. We have much to learn from Jesus. He did show us the way. For that he did not have to be Divine in any separate sense. We are to follow his way and not worry about all of the theological appendages added to him. The church the anti-Christ? I do not believe so. The anti-Christ is just another myth.


Yes, just like bible Jesus is a myth.

Regards

DL
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