The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.

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The Bible shifted some Gears in my mind.

Post by FourPart »

Mickiel;1490886 wrote: The greatest historical story I have ever read.
No - just his story. Not his story story.
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Post by Mickiel »

The bible shifted some gears in my mind, it cornered my consciousness and drew me into it. Made me examine it closely. And my consciousness is better off for it.
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Post by Ted »

The Bible being a history book is nonsense and has been shown by archaeology. I'd love to hear a talking snake. Yes David existed but archaeology shows that it was not the kind of state listed in the Bible. If some want it to be a history book go for it. My understanding is that it is primarily a religious book and not a history book.
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Post by Mickiel »

Ted;1491238 wrote: The Bible being a history book is nonsense and has been shown by archaeology. I'd love to hear a talking snake. Yes David existed but archaeology shows that it was not the kind of state listed in the Bible. If some want it to be a history book go for it. My understanding is that it is primarily a religious book and not a history book.


It depends on the point of view:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_the_Bible
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Post by FourPart »

The link tends to highlight the historical inaccuracies more than anything else.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1491250 wrote: The link tends to highlight the historical inaccuracies more than anything else.


Well there have been some inaccuracies, yes. But the bible, again in my view, is no doubt an historical document. It most definitely recorded much human history. The Mari archives is a good example of that;

Great Discoveries in Biblical Archaeology: The Mari Archive
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Post by Ted »

With all due respect that is nonsense. Archaeological evidence does not support most of the Bible. It is a very human book with very human authors.
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Post by Mickiel »

Ted;1491293 wrote: With all due respect that is nonsense. Archaeological evidence does not support most of the Bible. It is a very human book with very human authors.




I respect your respect, and return it in kind.

Archaeologist are human, and they discovered the " Nuzi Tablets":



Nuzi (Nuzi Tablets) - Biblical Studies - Oxford Bibliographies

A stunning support for the bible.
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Mickiel;1491332 wrote: I respect your respect, and return it in kind.

Archaeologist are human, and they discovered the " Nuzi Tablets":



Nuzi (Nuzi Tablets) - Biblical Studies - Oxford Bibliographies

A stunning support for the bible.
In what way? The Bible is a collection of Fairy Stories set in actual locations. Nobody is disputing the existence of these locations, nor some of the historically recorded characters. However, the fact that they existed does NOT support the existence of imaginary deity. One is NOT the same as the other. J. K. Rowling wrote about Magical Wizards & Warlocks. Roald Dahl wrote about Magical Wizards & Lands. Two independent books, both of which refer to the same thing. Because London is mentioned in both books, and we have evidence that London is real, and has been for centuries, that does not support the fact that the books are true.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1491342 wrote: In what way? The Bible is a collection of Fairy Stories set in actual locations. Nobody is disputing the existence of these locations, nor some of the historically recorded characters. However, the fact that they existed does NOT support the existence of imaginary deity. One is NOT the same as the other. J. K. Rowling wrote about Magical Wizards & Warlocks. Roald Dahl wrote about Magical Wizards & Lands. Two independent books, both of which refer to the same thing. Because London is mentioned in both books, and we have evidence that London is real, and has been for centuries, that does not support the fact that the books are true.




Here's a movie of the fairy tales, shown on some locations;

The Bible, Archeology, and Science
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Post by Ted »

Books have been written on this topic of the Bible and history and philosophy and theology. Some comments on historicity. There is no one shred of evidence for the exodus as described in the Bible. It did not happen that way. Waters don't part so folks can cross on the muddy bottom. Snakes to not talk, The sun does not stand still for a battle to end. Stars do not lead people to individuals. They are used in navigation though. There were no Angel choirs in the sky. David's kingdom has been explored but it was not as big as the Bible would indicate. "The Bible Unearthed" by Neil Silberman and Israel Finkelstein. When Joshua, if he did exist got to Jericho the walls were already down.

Now there is much truth to be found in the Bible. Much ancient wisdom. It is not an historical book but a religious book. To write it off a fairy tales is to fail to understand ancient writings and their purposes. Here I could direct folks to Biship John Spong or Dom Crossan or Bart Ehrman and a host of others. Highly trained and highly respected scholars.

Goodness even Nazareth has been shown to have existed to the annoyance of the nay- sayers.
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Post by FourPart »

Mickiel;1491347 wrote: Here's a movie of the fairy tales, shown on some locations;

The Bible, Archeology, and Science
Here's another - no less a truism than yours. Once again, the archaeology exists to prove London exists. Furthermore, Hogwarts Castle exists (albeit not by that name).



I say again - your fascination for archaeology bears no relevance to the existence of any supernatural deity. It merely confirms that certain locations existed, and many still exist. That much was never in question. In what way does it prove the existence of a God? At best it only proves the BELIEF in a God - not its actual existence. There are those that believe in Santa & the Tooth Fairy, and the presents at Xmas, or the money left for separated teeth are proof of their existence.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1491350 wrote: Here's another - no less a truism than yours. Once again, the archaeology exists to prove London exists. Furthermore, Hogwarts Castle exists (albeit not by that name).



I say again - your fascination for archaeology bears no relevance to the existence of any supernatural deity. It merely confirms that certain locations existed, and many still exist. That much was never in question. In what way does it prove the existence of a God? At best it only proves the BELIEF in a God - not its actual existence. There are those that believe in Santa & the Tooth Fairy, and the presents at Xmas, or the money left for separated teeth are proof of their existence.




I hold no interest in your continual use of myths to dispute the archaeological facts;

https://english.tau.ac.il/news/Solomons-Mines
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Mickiel;1491366 wrote: I hold no interest in your continual use of myths to dispute the archaeological facts;

https://english.tau.ac.il/news/Solomons-Mines
I hold no interest in your continual ignorance of the difference between myth & metaphor. I still make the point that no matter how many links you provide to 'Biblical' Archeological websites, not one of them has ever provided any evidence of the existence of a God - only the existence of people who believed in a God. What else are you trying to prove? That these people believed in a God? Of course they did. There have always been ignorant & superstitious people throughout history who have feared the unknown & tried to explain the inexplicable by attributing it to a God figure. If that is your intention by continually linking to these sites, then I totally agree with you.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1491385 wrote: I hold no interest in your continual ignorance of the difference between myth & metaphor. I still make the point that no matter how many links you provide to 'Biblical' Archeological websites, not one of them has ever provided any evidence of the existence of a God - only the existence of people who believed in a God. What else are you trying to prove? That these people believed in a God? Of course they did. There have always been ignorant & superstitious people throughout history who have feared the unknown & tried to explain the inexplicable by attributing it to a God figure. If that is your intention by continually linking to these sites, then I totally agree with you.




I am pleasantly surprised at those who are interested in the thread.
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Post by Ted »

The Bible is an ancient book of wisdom. It is not the inerrant word of God. It is a very human generated product. It is loaded with contradictions that no matter how creative you can get you cannot reconcile the discrepanciesds.
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Post by Mickiel »

Ted;1491460 wrote: The Bible is an ancient book of wisdom. It is not the inerrant word of God. It is a very human generated product. It is loaded with contradictions that no matter how creative you can get you cannot reconcile the discrepanciesds.


Show me anywhere in this thread that I have went against any of the above things you have listed. I see some of the same things you do, and some things you don't.
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Post by Ted »

What are some of the things I don't see?
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Post by Mickiel »

Ted;1491496 wrote: What are some of the things I don't see?


One thing at a time; show me where I have ever stated that the bible was flawless. Show me where I have ever stated that the bible had no contradictions.
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Post by Ted »

Those were general statements on my part. I never said you said those things.
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Ted;1491502 wrote: Those were general statements on my part. I never said you said those things.


I know I never said those things; I don't even like the implication that I have said things which I have not.
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Post by Ted »

I had no personal implications in that statement. Each is unique thank God and no one really knows what is going on in their brain beyond what they choose to reveal.
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Post by Mickiel »

The bible shifted some gears in my mind; it gives me a much better view of human destiny.
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Post by FourPart »

Mickiel;1491967 wrote: The bible shifted some gears in my mind; it gives me a much better view of human destiny.


My boot shifted some gears on my motorbike. It gives me a much better view of my destination.
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Post by Ted »

FourPart that is priceless. Love it.
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Post by Mickiel »

Ted;1492007 wrote: FourPart that is priceless. Love it.




When a book can actually change the course of your consciousness , that is a shift you will never forget. Its a ride in life that can alter the course direction; that is if you don't stomp on the things that travel through your head.
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Post by FourPart »

The Winnie The Pooh books changed the course of my consciousness, as well as all the other superlatives you refer to. The main difference is that I accept them as being works of fiction.
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FourPart;1492210 wrote: The Winnie The Pooh books changed the course of my consciousness, as well as all the other superlatives you refer to. The main difference is that I accept them as being works of fiction.




There is another difference, Winnie the Pooh has never become a vital part of humanity and how they consciously live. The cartoon has never influenced mankind like God has. The cartoon has never;

Created institutions that serve humanity

Built buildings of worship

given things to the poor

become a vital part of family life

has a history as old as man

once had science as a member of its organization

inspired as many books and literature

become a part of human education

Winnie is just no match for it; sorry.
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Mickiel;1492220 wrote: There is another difference, Winnie the Pooh has never become a vital part of humanity and how they consciously live. The cartoon has never influenced mankind like God has. The cartoon has never;

Created institutions that serve humanity

Built buildings of worship

given things to the poor

become a vital part of family life

has a history as old as man

once had science as a member of its organization

inspired as many books and literature

become a part of human education

Winnie is just no match for it; sorry.


You couldn't be more wrong.

Firstly you demonstrate your ignorance. I stated that the Winnie the Pooh BOOKS changed the course of my consciousness - not the tacky American Disney interpretation of it. Pooh has always been a vital part of my life. Pooh is philosophical, peaceful & loyal. Pooh has never been controversial in any way & has always been a perfect family role model. Who hasn't played Pooh Sticks with the children / parents? A. A. Milne, the Creator of Winnie the Pooh (and Father of Christopher Robin Milne, by the way) held a B.A. in Mathematics. Pooh has inspired many books. Most authors today were brought up on the stories of Pooh. Most will even say that he was their first inspiration to take up writing. Winnie the Pooh is to be found in ALL schools - at least all UK schools.
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FourPart;1492227 wrote: You couldn't be more wrong.

Firstly you demonstrate your ignorance. I stated that the Winnie the Pooh BOOKS changed the course of my consciousness - not the tacky American Disney interpretation of it. Pooh has always been a vital part of my life. Pooh is philosophical, peaceful & loyal. Pooh has never been controversial in any way & has always been a perfect family role model. Who hasn't played Pooh Sticks with the children / parents? A. A. Milne, the Creator of Winnie the Pooh (and Father of Christopher Robin Milne, by the way) held a B.A. in Mathematics. Pooh has inspired many books. Most authors today were brought up on the stories of Pooh. Most will even say that he was their first inspiration to take up writing. Winnie the Pooh is to be found in ALL schools - at least all UK schools.




My apologies, never let it be said that I tried to take away pooh from someone.
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Post by Mickiel »

The bible moved some thoughts around in my mind, the foremost of those thoughts is universal salvation.

Its all in the bible. WE all are destined for another life.
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Mickiel;1492737 wrote: The bible moved some thoughts around in my mind, the foremost of those thoughts is universal salvation.

Its all in the bible. WE all are destined for another life.


Other than with reincarnation, what would be the purpose?
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1492739 wrote: Other than with reincarnation, what would be the purpose?


The purpose of life, cannot be explained to one who sees no purpose, because whatever is said to them, will be meaningless to them.

That meaninglessness must be respected, so I offer no explination.
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The purpose of life is to reproduce. Once life has ceased there is no way to reproduce & therefore has no further purpose other than for the physical remains to provide sustenance for other life forms.
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1492747 wrote: The purpose of life is to reproduce. Once life has ceased there is no way to reproduce & therefore has no further purpose other than for the physical remains to provide sustenance for other life forms.




I disagree, the purpose of life, is to have life on a greater plane. Once life has ceased, we are destined to live again, and then be reborn into a greater life, our physical bodies will be disposed of; that is the " Second Death"; then there will be no more death. The second death is the death of the first death.

Hey, were not going through all this mess for nothing. Nothing is what people see because the mess has blinded them.
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Mickiel;1492749 wrote: I disagree, the purpose of life, is to have life on a greater plane. Once life has ceased, we are destined to live again, and then be reborn into a greater life, our physical bodies will be disposed of; that is the " Second Death"; then there will be no more death. The second death is the death of the first death.

Hey, were not going through all this mess for nothing. Nothing is what people see because the mess has blinded them.
And who supposedly created all this mess?
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1492750 wrote: And who supposedly created all this mess?




The same one's who created your mentality.
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Mickiel;1492752 wrote: The same one's who created your mentality.
So a combination of genetics & an abusive father?
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Post by Mickiel »

FourPart;1492758 wrote: So a combination of genetics & an abusive father?




Yes.
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Post by Mickiel »

In Rev. 12:9 it mentions a being that has deceived the whole world; in my view, this is where the world mentality comes from. It takes its birth there. It is a very powerful influence that has swept this world like an air wave. It has affected us all. This is one of the origins of this genetic mess.
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Mickiel;1492766 wrote: Yes.


So, there we have it. It was my abusive Father that created all this screwed up world, Heaven & Hell. That must make me the Son of God. Bow down before me.
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Post by Mickiel »

In Matt. 5:3 when Jesus said blessed are the poor in Spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven, Jesus gave billions of humans a free pass to his Kingdom, because billions have been " Poor in Spirit."
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Post by FourPart »

Mickiel;1492807 wrote: In Matt. 5:3 when Jesus said blessed are the poor in Spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven, Jesus gave billions of humans a free pass to his Kingdom, because billions have been " Poor in Spirit."


There's loads of similar "Free Pass" postings on FaceBook - MacDonalds, KFC, etc. Not surprisingly they're hoaxes as well.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Mickiel, what does "poor in spirit" mean? Does it mean one who doesn't have faith? I've heard different explanations, but I never seem to remember them. Thanks.
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Post by Mickiel »

AnneBoleyn;1492850 wrote: Mickiel, what does "poor in spirit" mean? Does it mean one who doesn't have faith? I've heard different explanations, but I never seem to remember them. Thanks.


It could mean lack of faith, yes; its a human who has no zest for life. No motivation, no energy, its a doubt of God being real; no patience, unhappy, no love or joy; arrogant and afraid.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Mickiel;1492863 wrote: It could mean lack of faith, yes; its a human who has no zest for life. No motivation, no energy, its a doubt of God being real; no patience, unhappy, no love or joy; arrogant and afraid.


Then why are they blessed?
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Post by Mickiel »

AnneBoleyn;1492877 wrote: Then why are they blessed?




The thinking is, " They will be blessed by God", when he decrees the time. So if the question is, " Why will they be blessed?", the answer is because God knows they will need it.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Mickiel;1492879 wrote: The thinking is, " They will be blessed by God", when he decrees the time. So if the question is, " Why will they be blessed?", the answer is because God knows they will need it.


Or, is it a mistake of translation? I've been thinking of other explanations for 'poor in spirit'. Can it mean to be humble in spirit? In other words, not a disbelief of spirit; instead, humility of spirit.
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Post by FourPart »

When a person does not believe in the existence of a God, what is the point of their being blessed by something that doesn't exist? To say otherwise is patronising to anyone who doesn't believe.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who wants to believe, that's fine by me to let them live in their own little fantasy world, but to try to impose it on me & state that I am the one that's wrong, and that their fantasy figure will bless me for not believing in it, quite frankly, I find offensive.
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Post by Mickiel »

AnneBoleyn;1492908 wrote: Or, is it a mistake of translation? I've been thinking of other explanations for 'poor in spirit'. Can it mean to be humble in spirit? In other words, not a disbelief of spirit; instead, humility of spirit.




Yes, it could also mean humility of spirit; I favor the weak in spirit over that. Weak in spirit, in biblical terms, means unbelief.
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