Parental rights regarding belief

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spot
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Parental rights regarding belief

Post by spot »

I take a quote from today's BBC News website, it needs no immediate context, but it's https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-62173865
"a parent's right to educate one's child based on his or her own belief is internationally recognised"
I can see a stack of reasons why this is undesirable, and very few reasons why it should be tolerated or encouraged. The entire notion of "belief" is abhorrent whether it refers to religion or anything else. All the word means is "my mind is closed to change on this topic, I have a belief instead".

Perhaps the panel might offer a view or two.
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LarsMac
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Re: Parental rights regarding belief

Post by LarsMac »

Well, my views are really the only place that I could start with the education of my child, but then, my main tenets were to think for herself, and to take no one too serious, even me.
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Re: Parental rights regarding belief

Post by spot »

I try to ask questions more than instruct, but there's an inevitable chunk of providing information on demand too.

When asked, I might start the informing with "what do you know and where did you find it" but I straighten the edges afterwards. That usually begins with a horrified "No no no no no" on my part.
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Re: Parental rights regarding belief

Post by LarsMac »

My daughter started out thinking for herself, and never looked back. While she expressed a respect for our points of view, on occasion, she made up her own mind about things as she encountered them, and we either accepted he view or showed her a new perspective for here to consider.

My stepdaughter's hubby was one of those who believed in the his right to force his views on his children. We always made sure that they had a reliable sounding board for their analyses of his views.

The Stepson always figured his kids could figure shit out for themselves.

On the other hand we have neighbors who are exactly the type that figure their kids should learn "The Way of the Brethren"
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Bryn Mawr
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Re: Parental rights regarding belief

Post by Bryn Mawr »

Are you differentiating between a belief in, for example, honesty and justice and a belief in Qazxlolb, the god of mindless obedience?
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Re: Parental rights regarding belief

Post by spot »

Bryn Mawr wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:31 am Are you differentiating between a belief in, for example, honesty and justice and a belief in Qazxlolb, the god of mindless obedience?
The world is littered with terminology. There's ideology, religion, culture, an assortment of sciences, an assortment of pseudo-sciences which hijack scientific words without the underlying scientific processes.

Belief, in any of those areas, is a claim to truth. Contradiction thereby becomes necessarily false. Any claim to truth should be an immediate red card. What we need engraved on every forehead is "I don't know, at best I make up metaphors".
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Re: Parental rights regarding belief

Post by LarsMac »

I was just reading that article. Abe was a Moonie?

An interesting religion that.

But, the idea that all parents have a duty and right to teach their children according to their own personal beliefs in a world where there are nearly as many religions and philosophies as there are people?
That can only lead to disaster, I think.
And that is my personal religious belief.

So, now I must go drill that into the grandchildren.
It would be my right and duty to do so, ..., Right?
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Re: Parental rights regarding belief

Post by spot »

LarsMac wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:14 am I was just reading that article. Abe was a Moonie?
The Moonies are very rich, their money attracts all sorts of politicians.

For example, from last year:
The former Unification Church-affiliated NGO, Universal Peace Federation (UPF), held a large meeting on September 12 online. Following ex-U.S. President Donald Trump, Abe appeared on the large screens in the event and praised the UPF in his 5-minute speech.

https://www.japan-press.co.jp/s/news/?id=13764
I don't expect Donald Trump is a believer either, but politicians do love publicity.
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Re: Parental rights regarding belief

Post by LarsMac »

Back in my Younger days, I hung out with the Moonies for a while. They were very interesting.
Even met Ol' Moon, hisself, I did.
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Re: Parental rights regarding belief

Post by spot »

LarsMac wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:27 pm Back in my Younger days, I hung out with the Moonies for a while. They were very interesting.
Even met Ol' Moon, hisself, I did.
I recall chatting in Malaysia in the 80s with a large gap-year Korean group traveling together for protection abroad. They were cheerful and quite keen to credit their church for the fact.

As for the organization, the chap who designed it might have set out with financial stability in mind or that might just have happened later. The obvious comparison is with Ron Hubbard who comes over clearly as a con-artist creating Scientology, or with Hare Krishna, both of which had screwing money out of people as their core tenet. The difference is that Sun Myung Moon had world-class influence throughout his life, on a scale with the Dalai Lama. He has to have been charismatic as well as lucky. Did you find him so?
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Re: Parental rights regarding belief

Post by LarsMac »

spot wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:47 am
LarsMac wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:27 pm Back in my Younger days, I hung out with the Moonies for a while. They were very interesting.
Even met Ol' Moon, hisself, I did.
I recall chatting in Malaysia in the 80s with a large gap-year Korean group traveling together for protection abroad. They were cheerful and quite keen to credit their church for the fact.

As for the organization, the chap who designed it might have set out with financial stability in mind or that might just have happened later. The obvious comparison is with Ron Hubbard who comes over clearly as a con-artist creating Scientology, or with Hare Krishna, both of which had screwing money out of people as their core tenet. The difference is that Sun Myung Moon had world-class influence throughout his life, on a scale with the Dalai Lama. He has to have been charismatic as well as lucky. Did you find him so?
Actually, I found him to be somewhat humorless, and bossy. He seemed quite disappointed that all his minions in the Americas had, as yet, failed to educate themselves in the Korean Language.

I also recall being in the middle of a street fight when my Moony friends encountered Scientology guys soliciting donations on our favorite street corner.
But, yes, for the most part, the Moonies were a cheerful lot.

I was asked to leave after I ran into an old chum from the Navy and we took off to talk old times over beers, and a couple of my Moonie Mates saw us drinking at the Beer Garden at DuPont Circle. near the DC headquarters. Beer was a definite No-No. They were just like the Baptists in that regards.

The Hari Krishnas were a lot more fun people, though I found their diet to be less enticing.

Ah, the 70s were fun times.
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Re: Parental rights regarding belief

Post by LarsMac »

To get back on track, here, though.
Parental rights must include the right to teach children certain philosophical and practical thinking and ideas that are common to the family. I don't see how society can avoid that notion.
Though religion gets to be very sticky, there.
We have family members who belong to some pretty far out, almost cultish religious groups. We are not invited to some family activities, because we have a reputation for socializing with Commies, and "Agents of the Devil", as well as consorting with Environmentalists and people of other religions.
They guard the information their children are exposed to with a ferocity you could not imagine.

But, I have actually witnessed their children setting out to find out about the stuff they are not being taught. Curiosity often trumps restrictive education.
I remember, when I was a young'n, overhearing a few conversations where my parents were lectured on how they were not raising their children to "properly follow the Lord" and we were not allowed to play with some of our cousins. My dad brought up that notion that he was entitled by the Constitution to raise his kids as he saw fit.

So, yeah, that notion works both ways.
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Re: Parental rights regarding belief

Post by spot »

It does sound like recommending the majority of children be brought up twisted in order that a few children should always have a chance to be brought up rationally. It might even be the best that can be managed.

Any self-identified group which portrays the rest of the world as hostile will aim to indoctrinate its children. The rest of us putting rational contrary views where they can be seen has be be helpful. I agree your Constitution is a big step in that direction if you can keep it intact.
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