Are your Kids Vaccinated?

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:57 pm

My kids were all vaccinated. They couldn't move on to different levels in school without presenting their immunization records showing updates. Is that not the way it is across the country?

Apparently not...

Kristen Bell: Wanna hold my baby? Get vaxxed! - CNN.com

Post by **Betty Boop** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:31 pm

Mine are all vaccinated, but if they weren't it wouldn't stop them moving up through school here in England.

I know a lot didn't have their children vaccinated when there was a supposed link to Autism years ago. It all hit the headlines around about the time my eldest was due his vaccinations but it didn't stop me deciding to go ahead anyway. It was already apparent that my son had problems so for me there was no reason not to have the vaccinations, I already suspected he had problems and he was actually born premature in traumatic circumstances, which for me accounted for his developmental problems.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:10 pm

Personally, I consider parents who refuse to have their children vaccinated extremely irresponsible by endangering their children's future health, or even their very lives. However, it is not something that is enforceable by law.

Ironic, isn't it, that parents can be prosecuted for disciplining their children with a smack, which would teach them, in the long run, to be responsible adults, but they're perfectly entitled to put their possibility of even reaching adulthood at risk by way of concious negligence.

Post by **spot** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:38 am

To say it's not compulsory, but then refuse access to the school system for unvaccinated children, is an outrage. I'd have thought it would be the basis of lawsuits in the US, given the insanely litigious nature of the population.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:19 am

Vaccinated against what? We had our then 6-year-old vaccinated with the first of two jabs when the bird flue was supposedly running wild. But then got word of the scandalous danger from those inoculations and opted out of the second jab. It'll be a while before we trust "the expertsâ€ again.

Post by **spot** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:24 am

High Threshold;1474674 wrote: Vaccinated against what?

The standard vaccination program in the UK for children between birth and leaving school is diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, polio, pneumocosis, rotavirus, measles, mumps, rubella, HPV and meningitis C. It used to include a BCG jab against tuberculosis too, but that got dropped. As did smallpox, which seems short-sighted.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:29 am

FourPart;1474664 wrote: ....... parents can be prosecuted for disciplining their children with a smack, which would teach them, in the long run, to be responsible adults .....

Whew! No. It teaches them that violence and physical strength/pain rules. I having difficulties even believing you actually said that.

spot;1474672 wrote: To say it's not compulsory, but then refuse access to the school system for unvaccinated children, is an outrage. I'd have thought it would be the basis of lawsuits in the US, given the insanely litigious nature of the population.

Following the logic of that statement â€¦.. it means that education is NOT compulsory in the U.S.?

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:31 am

spot;1474675 wrote: The standard vaccination program in the UK for children between birth and leaving school is diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, polio, pneumocosis, rotavirus, measles, mumps, rubella, HPV and meningitis C. It used to include a BCG jab against tuberculosis too, but that got dropped. As did smallpox, which seems short-sighted.

I see. Thanks. I should not have replied spontaneously.

Post by **spot** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:39 am

High Threshold;1474677 wrote: Following the logic of that statement â€¦.. it means that education is NOT compulsory in the U.S.?

Apparently not, given the OP: "They couldn't move on to different levels in school without presenting their immunization records showing updates". Maybe it means the children were held back indefinitely in kindergarten until they reached 20, or whatever age they had to leave.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:25 am

spot;1474681 wrote: Apparently not, given the OP: "They couldn't move on to different levels in school without presenting their immunization records showing updates". Maybe it means the children were held back indefinitely in kindergarten until they reached 20, or whatever age they had to leave.

That would explain one question I have about the lack of worldly knowledge (both external and domestic) of the population.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:51 am

spot;1474672 wrote: To say it's not compulsory, but then refuse access to the school system for unvaccinated children, is an outrage. I'd have thought it would be the basis of lawsuits in the US, given the insanely litigious nature of the population.
To be honest, I don't know if it was an idle threat or not. My kids were vaccinated. I do know that kids couldn't be in sports without a sports physical.

What concerns me is that with the numbers of non-vaccinated growing in this country, in a few years IRAN and its nuclear capabilities may find itself running second to smallpox and measles bombs.

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:28 am

spot;1474681 wrote: Apparently not, given the OP: "They couldn't move on to different levels in school without presenting their immunization records showing updates". Maybe it means the children were held back indefinitely in kindergarten until they reached 20, or whatever age they had to leave.

That is where "Home Schooling" started, I think.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:40 am

flopstock;1474688 wrote: To be honest, I don't know if it was an idle threat or not. My kids were vaccinated. I do know that kids couldn't be in sports without a sports physical.
A physical is nothing more than a medical â€œcheck upâ€ to see if your â€œkidsâ€ are capable of vigorous activity â€¦. nothing to do with administering medicine â€¦. orally, rectal or intravenously.

flopstock;1474688 wrote: What concerns me is that with the numbers of non-vaccinated growing in this country, in a few years IRAN and its nuclear capabilities may find itself running second to smallpox and measles bombs.
I am certain to be the only true idiot on FG but can you explain to me what Iran's nuclear endeavours and capabilities have to do with smallpox and measles bombs. If you are referring to biological weapons then I can assure you (emphatically) that the U.S. will not find itself second to any other nation in bomb-making, until it ceases to exist as a nation. Your concern is misplaced.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:53 am

LarsMac;1474691 wrote: That is where "Home Schooling" started, I think.

Around here home schooling always seemed to be more religion based, but that could have just been the folks I knew personally.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:59 am

flopstock;1474697 wrote: Around here home schooling always seemed to be more religion based, but that could have just been the folks I knew personally.

When southern public schools were desegregated (to be fair, northern too) private schools were formed around this issue for white students & I imagine there are private schools populated by children whose parents won't accept the notion that their child must be vaccinated. Perfect planting ground for epidemics.

Post by **spot** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:12 am

High Threshold;1474693 wrote: I am certain to be the only true idiot on FG but can you explain to me what Iran's nuclear endeavours and capabilities have to do with smallpox and measles bombs.
The current Great Bogey in tabloid America is Iran's alleged nuclear endeavours and capabilities. The suggestion was that in a few years this media-generated fear will run second to smallpox and measles bombs. The notion has merit, so long as it's recognized that the new-found fear will still be associated with one or more demonized countries like Iran or North Korea, where the reality will still have nothing at all to do with the fear-mongering.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:45 am

The idea of a Smallpox Bomb is highly unlikely & more likely to be plain scaremongering as Smallpox is an extinct disease. All but a single vial kept stored in the deep vaults of a WHO medical centre were destroyed. There is still a great deal of debate as to what to do with it, as it is now the only source of formulating a vaccine. However, it is also (as far as we know) the only source of any risk of another outbreak ever happening again, and therein lies the quandry.

Smallpox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Post by **spot** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:40 am

FourPart;1474706 wrote: All but a single vial kept stored in the deep vaults of a WHO medical centre were destroyed.

Do you seriously believe nations behave that cleanly? Of course there's other stocks out there held by an assortment of military research labs, quite likely adapted to spread rapidly across battlefronts and with vaccines pre-developed to inoculate their own populations before release.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:37 pm

spot;1474712 wrote: Do you seriously believe nations behave that cleanly? Of course there's other stocks out there held by an assortment of military research labs, quite likely adapted to spread rapidly across battlefronts and with vaccines pre-developed to inoculate their own populations before release.

I agree & read years ago the U.S. & Soviet Union had their own samples (for "safekeeping"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:32 pm

"Johnny Red does this".

"The Imperialist Dog does that".

When has one side not made up propaganda about the other is order to perpetrate fear & hatred against its enemies?

Post by **spot** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:07 pm

FourPart;1474720 wrote: When has one side not made up propaganda about the other is order to perpetrate fear & hatred against its enemies?

What did I write that implied taking sides?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:48 pm

spot;1474741 wrote: What did I write that implied taking sides?

Wondering the same thing.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:05 pm

I was actually referring to this:

AnneBoleyn;1474716 wrote: I agree & read years ago the U.S. & Soviet Union had their own samples (for "safekeeping"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Both sides have always accused the other of doing certain evils, suually without any foundation, to rouse hatred among their own people against the opposition. Such as, for instance, the evils of Saddam Hussein and all his WMDs that he was amassing in an evil plan to annihilate the world.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:00 pm

FourPart;1474779 wrote: I was actually referring to this:

Both sides have always accused the other of doing certain evils, suually without any foundation, to rouse hatred among their own people against the opposition. Such as, for instance, the evils of Saddam Hussein and all his WMDs that he was amassing in an evil plan to annihilate the world.

No, no! It was done by Mutual Agreement, kind of like insurance against Mutual Destruction. It's not a myth.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:30 pm

spot;1474701 wrote: The current Great Bogey in tabloid America is Iran's alleged nuclear endeavours and capabilities. The suggestion was that in a few years this media-generated fear will run second to smallpox and measles bombs. The notion has merit, so long as it's recognized that the new-found fear will still be associated with one or more demonized countries like Iran or North Korea, where the reality will still have nothing at all to do with the fear-mongering.

One would think that AIDS and Ebola were enough. Easily administered - so I am led to believe - and let the stuff run rampant. If that fails CIA agents can run amok with straight pins in the condom section of Boots in down-town Tehran.

Post by **spot** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:26 am

High Threshold;1474812 wrote: One would think that AIDS and Ebola were enough. Easily administered - so I am led to believe - and let the stuff run rampant. If that fails CIA agents can run amok with straight pins in the condom section of Boots in down-town Tehran.

As battlefields weapons, HiV/AIDS doesn't incapacitate until long after the war is over - you need your enemy troops unable to aim straight on the day. Ebola is a contact infection, I'm not sure it's ever been airborne and if the troops are dressed in battlefield bio-protectors there's no way to infect them. As a weapon of terror on civilian targets though, I'm sure they'd generate the intended panic but so would a merely credible claim that it was deployed.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:51 am

spot;1474815 wrote: As battlefields weapons, HiV/AIDS doesn't incapacitate until long after the war is over - you need your enemy troops unable to aim straight on the day. Ebola is a contact infection, I'm not sure it's ever been airborne and if the troops are dressed in battlefield bio-protectors there's no way to infect them. As a weapon of terror on civilian targets though,

I'm sure they'd generate the intended panic but so would a merely credible claim that it was deployed.

An insightful observation. But as psychological warfare goes you don't think it would be effective upon the military as well? Many of those who might be considered â€œenemies of the Westâ€ are relatively unsophisticated and/or downright superstitious. I can imagine that the tactic has already been deployed, though I can't think of any examples.

Post by **spot** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:59 am

High Threshold;1474817 wrote: But as psychological warfare goes you don't think it would be effective upon the military as well?

The mere threat played havoc with the UK troops who entered Iraq, they were issued chemical- and bio-suits and some had to wear them, they had inoculations against bio-threat agents which, many said, left them with permanent physical damage. It was all caused by scare as opposed to reality.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:01 am

Post script:

I don't really believe that British soldiers in the Indian sub-continent actually took the time to grease their cartridges in pig's fat, though the population probably did.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:04 am

spot;1474818 wrote: The mere threat played havoc with the UK troops who entered Iraq, they were issued chemical- and bio-suits and some had to wear them, they had inoculations against bio-threat agents which, many said, left them with permanent physical damage. It was all caused by scare as opposed to reality.

Yes, I see now. It's ironic that the only nuclear danger turned out to be "dirty", British and American, military weaponery:

Depleted Uranium - The Real Dirty Bombs

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:10 am

High Threshold;1474819 wrote: Post script:

I don't really believe that British soldiers in the Indian sub-continent actually took the time to grease their cartridges in pig's fat, though the population probably did.
I wouldn't be surprised if they did, but more because it was a way to avoid their ammo getting wet & rusty. The fact that it was contrary to Halal / Kosher law would have been a bonus.

Post by **spot** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:50 am

They were greased in the factory before storage and distribution, to keep the powder dry - these are powder cartridges, not modern-day rounds. To use them they had to be bitten open. The rumour that the grease being bitten included pork-fat caused indiscipline among the locally-recruited Muslim troops in the British Forces in India who had to bite them to use them. I've never seen it suggested that any British troops greased their own cartridges before biting them. Are we trying to suggest the locals didn't like being shot by Christians who coated their own balls with pork-fat?

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:22 am

spot;1474978 wrote: They were greased in the factory before storage and distribution, to keep the powder dry - these are powder cartridges, not modern-day rounds. To use them they had to be bitten open. The rumour that the grease being bitten included pork-fat caused indiscipline among the locally-recruited Muslim troops in the British Forces in India who had to bite them to use them. I've never seen it suggested that any British troops greased their own cartridges before biting them. Are we trying to suggest the locals didn't like being shot by Christians who coated their own balls with pork-fat?

"We"? No. Me? I suppose. At least that's the way it's normally told, with that suggestion as the main course.

Post by **spot** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:38 am

High Threshold;1474981 wrote: that's the way it's normally told, with that suggestion as the main course.

Take a quick look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bite_the_cartridge - it suggests the greasing is part of the manufacturing process.

Courrier de la Louisiane - Google News Archive Search is a newspaper report from the year in question, 1857. I attach the relevant paragraph below. People have ever since been enjoined to "bite the bullet" when facing an unpleasant task, this is where it comes from.

Attached files

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:16 am

spot;1474984 wrote: Take a quick look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bite_the_cartridge - it suggests the greasing is part of the manufacturing process.

Courrier de la Louisiane - Google News Archive Search is a newspaper report from the year in question, 1857. I attach the relevant paragraph below. People have ever since been enjoined to "bite the bullet" when facing an unpleasant task, this is where it comes from.

I really enjoyed the links! They appear to support my suspicion that reports of the use of pork fat were merely rumours. Interesting also to know what "bite the bullet" derived NOT as I always thought ..... lead being a malleable substance and bitten into in order to instil some courage during battlefield operations without anesthesia.