The US Military should Stop Competing with Contractors

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Accountable
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The US Military should Stop Competing with Contractors

Post by Accountable »

I recently found out that Japan pays the lion's share of the costs of our military presence. That makes us nothing more than mercenaries. That's not the job of the US military. That's not the oath that soldiers take.



We are depriving private industry of revenue streams by maintaining military posts outside of US borders. As I understand it, we routinely contract combatants now to fight in the ME. If the industry is strong (and it appears that it is) then we should let them protect all these countries we currently provide protection to - Japan, S Korea, countries throughout Europe, etc.
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Saint_
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The US Military should Stop Competing with Contractors

Post by Saint_ »

Ok, you lost me. If the military is the largest expenditure of our government...why not let other countries pay for protection? Just that much less American taxpayers have to pay, right?
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Snooz
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The US Military should Stop Competing with Contractors

Post by Snooz »

Every single contractor I've ever met in the 30 years I've been affiliated with the military got paid a lot more money than either military or civil service. If the US government/taxpayer is going to continue paying for these military posts, it's cheaper to continue using their own employees.
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Accountable
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The US Military should Stop Competing with Contractors

Post by Accountable »

Saint_;1393375 wrote: Ok, you lost me. If the military is the largest expenditure of our government...why not let other countries pay for protection? Just that much less American taxpayers have to pay, right?
But why are we asking our most precious assets to swear to defend our Constitution, and then rent them out as mercenaries. We don't need to have all these outlying bases in Europe and Asia, if we ever really did. Closing them would save us a ton.
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

SnoozeAgain;1393392 wrote: Every single contractor I've ever met in the 30 years I've been affiliated with the military got paid a lot more money than either military or civil service. If the US government/taxpayer is going to continue paying for these military posts, it's cheaper to continue using their own employees.

I think that's true. That's why I'm advocating that those nations should pay for their own defense contractors out of their own pockets, and we should pull out.
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Post by Snooz »

We must be getting some benefits from it. Strategic location near North Korea in the case of Okinawa, for one.
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Post by Accountable »

SnoozeAgain;1393410 wrote: We must be getting some benefits from it. Strategic location near North Korea in the case of Okinawa, for one.

No doubt, but nobody's asking the question of why we need strategic location near North Korea. We need to "why" it down until we find some kind of threat to the USA; otherwise, we should pack up and go home.
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Post by Saint_ »

Accountable;1393403 wrote: We don't need to have all these outlying bases in Europe and Asia, if we ever really did. Closing them would save us a ton.



Boy, I really agree with you there. I saw a guy on the news today (Rethuglican) screeching about how America will be less secure if we cut defense spending by a single dollar and how millions would be put out of work. I was thinking, "If war is your work, then it's good to be unemployed."
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Post by Accountable »

Look at where we are. Japan? Germany?? Closing these huge bases will increase unemployment. That's what's keeping them open. The military is a jobs program first, national defense somewhere far lower on the list.
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Post by Wandrin »

The reason the US needs 40+ military bases in Germany is... maybe we're worried about zombie Nazis rising from the grave?

Add that to the bases we have in Belgium, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Italy, Macedonia, Kosovo, and Spain, and that is a lot of US troops unavailable for actual defense. And that's just Europe.

I'm sure that these bases are good for the local economies in those countries, but how many are actually needed? Does the US ever close a military base on foreign soil or just those in the US?
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Those bases are set-ups for the cold war, which the neo-cons would love to see again.
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Post by Wandrin »

AnneBoleyn;1393439 wrote: Those bases are set-ups for the cold war, which the neo-cons would love to see again.



That would be easy enough to do. The first cold war began when the US and England invaded Russia, while Russia was our ally, immediately following WWI, attempting to put a monarchy back in power. For some reason, people tend to hold a grudge for many generations after you invade their country.
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Post by gmc »

The Duke of Wellington I think it was once stated that the British people would never tolerate a large standing army at home so hiding it around the colonies was the nest way to maintain it.

Would the American people tolerate such a large standing army if it was at home on the continental united states where they could see it rather than based abroad? Half your deficit is caused by military spending and it's sparking off another arms race provoking both china and russia to increase their defence spending just in case they are attacked by the US or feel the need to defend their interests. Any war between the superpowers would very quickly go nuclear so what's the point of the bases nowadays?
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Post by Accountable »

gmc;1393456 wrote: Would the American people tolerate such a large standing army if it was at home on the continental united states where they could see it rather than based abroad?
That's a point I keep bringing up, but the people I pose the question to either completely ignore it or try to rationalize it somehow such as saying we have certain responsibilities as the world superpower. If I may borrow the term ........ Bollocks!
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Post by Snooz »

How would we see it? I don't keep track of the number of employees at large companies.
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Post by gmc »

SnoozeAgain;1393460 wrote: How would we see it? I don't keep track of the number of employees at large companies.



I'd have thought you'd notice the better part of a quarter million men plus their equipment and all their dependants who would need rehoused somewhere somehow.

posed by accountable

That's a point I keep bringing up, but the people I pose the question to either completely ignore it or try to rationalize it somehow such as saying we have certain responsibilities as the world superpower. If I may borrow the term ........ Bollocks!



You may indeed borrow the term. The sound of the word says it all does it not? and it's not rude at all. Try says who? as well.



posted by wandrin

The first cold war began when the US and England invaded Russia, while Russia was our ally, immediately following WWI, attempting to put a monarchy back in power.



That was a real shooting war not a cold one that seems to have failed rather dismally. In actual fact eleven countries attacked russia including canada, japan, china and greece so I'm not sure who you should blame the us and british.
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Post by Accountable »

Someone in another forum brought up the valid point that hiring mercenaries takes away a certain amount of control. Without some really careful monitoring it could get to be like hiring the mafia to take over the neighborhood watch program. Still, Japan and Germany don't need us to protect them. They're not destitute. And renting out our military is hardly supporting and defending our Constitution.
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Post by gmc »

You're defending your commercial interests this notion that you are defending the free world is one that only Americans really take seriously any more. Same with the french and british in libya it's a power play, libya has lots of oil. The arab states are worried about syria for fear revolt might spread to their own countries. A blind eye has been turned to saudi troops shooting demonstrators in Bahrain and what the government there is doing to their own people. Foreign politics is depressingly amoral.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Saint_;1393375 wrote: Ok, you lost me. If the military is the largest expenditure of our government...why not let other countries pay for protection? Just that much less American taxpayers have to pay, right?



Who are you protecting the Japanese from?

What is the purpose of the US troops being in Japan?
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Post by Ahso! »

Bryn Mawr;1393676 wrote: Who are you protecting the Japanese from?

Uz? Those countries we're not protecting are the countries we're thinking about picking fights with. Besides, it's easy money for the other countries with us leasing RE from them at what is most likely ridiculous amounts.

I don't see the problem with the US military being a jobs program. Someone has to do some hiring. What I'd prefer is the military personal behave more like ambassadors of good will instead of warriors.

Whats more distasteful to me is the private war machine my tax dollars go to.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



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Post by Accountable »

Ahso!;1393678 wrote: I don't see the problem with the US military being a jobs program. Someone has to do some hiring. What I'd prefer is the military personal behave more like ambassadors of good will instead of warriors.
That's not a military mission. That's a diplomatic mission. If they want to transfer a unit or three from the dept of defense to the dept of state, it might be a really cool humanitarian thing ... but they need to leave the weapons at home. :yh_wink
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Ahso!;1393678 wrote: Uz? Those countries we're not protecting are the countries we're thinking about picking fights with. Besides, it's easy money for the other countries with us leasing RE from them at what is most likely ridiculous amounts.

I don't see the problem with the US military being a jobs program. Someone has to do some hiring. What I'd prefer is the military personal behave more like ambassadors of good will instead of warriors.

Whats more distasteful to me is the private war machine my tax dollars go to.



The point that I was trying to make is that you are not there protecting the Japanese in any way, you are there protecting American interests within the Pacific Rim and making the Japanese government foot the bill.
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Post by Ahso! »

Bryn Mawr;1393713 wrote: The point that I was trying to make is that you are not there protecting the Japanese in any way, you are there protecting American interests within the Pacific Rim and making the Japanese government foot the bill.
I understood what you wrote, I was being sarcastic. Though I have to wonder who pays more, Japan or the US? Perhaps it's a wash that aids both economies.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Wandrin »

One has to wonder. Assuming for a moment that there is some strategic value to a US military base in Japan, do we really need all of the 22 bases in Japan (and Okinawa)? Or the 38 military bases in South Korea, since it is so close?
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Wandrin;1393730 wrote: One has to wonder. Assuming for a moment that there is some strategic value to a US military base in Japan, do we really need all of the 22 bases in Japan (and Okinawa)? Or the 38 military bases in South Korea, since it is so close?



Do you want the simple answer?

No!

:-)
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Post by Ahso! »

There's military strategy and then there's economic strategic value. I'd say the reasoning and therefore the value is economic. In that sense I don't see a problem with these bases because we need to get money into the hands of our people somehow so it can be circulated through the economic system. The problem we have though is the money gets hoarded by certain companies and individuals and ends up benefiting the stock market almost exclusively once it goes their way.

This economic system of ours appears to be feeding on itself. That can't be good.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Ahso! »

Accountable;1393684 wrote: That's not a military mission. That's a diplomatic mission. If they want to transfer a unit or three from the dept of defense to the dept of state, it might be a really cool humanitarian thing ... but they need to leave the weapons at home. :yh_wink
In a perfect world that would be the result but we don't live in a perfect world. If we left the weapons at home they'd pile up and the American people might then begin to eventually smarten up and actually notice that this manufacturing of weaponry is about the silliest and irrelevant activity we engage in.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean


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Post by Accountable »

Dripping Sarcasm Cleanup Aisle 12!



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