These Colors Don’t Run.

koan
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Post by koan »

Ahso!;1378775 wrote: For your information, Oscar, I've earned the right to criticize my government and it's actions.



Well done. It is the duty of all intellectuals to question their government.

From a Noam Chomsky article:

With respect to the responsibility of intellectuals, there are still other, equally disturbing questions. Intellectuals are in a position to expose the lies of governments, to analyze actions according to their causes and motives and often hidden intentions. In the Western world, at least, they have the power that comes from political liberty, from access to information and freedom of expression. For a privileged minority, Western democracy provides the leisure, the facilities, and the training to seek the truth lying hidden behind the veil of distortion and misrepresentation, ideology and class interest, through which the events of current history are presented to us. The responsibilities of intellectuals, then, are much deeper than what [Dwight] Macdonald calls the "responsibility of people," given the unique privileges that intellectuals enjoy.

The Responsibility of Intellectuals, by Noam Chomsky
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Post by Ahso! »

koan;1378778 wrote: I think it's wonderful troops are coming home. As to whether or not they made the world a better place while at war, and whether or not it matters if the opinion comes from someone who served or not, I think it is relevant. Veterans are lending their voices to the Occupy movement because they came home to find their world has become worse. Scott Olson survived multiple tours in Iraq only to get his skull fractured by a tear gas canister launched by the Oakland police, who then used flash grenades to scatter those who ran to help carry him off the street to get medical aid.

So how do veterans feel about the wars and the part they've been forced to play in it?

Board of Directors Statement on the Occupy Movement: We are the 99% | Iraq Veterans Against the War
The vast majority of young men who join the military simply don't understand what it is they're getting themselves into until they're there. Most join the military for job security or for a change and some because their girlfriend became pregnant.

I'm glad that many of the young men coming home today now understand that they were used as pawns by gluttonous leaders who cared little for them or their families.

Unfortunately a new generation comes along with identical naivety for the next bunch of bad leaders to prey on.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean


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Post by gmc »

oscar;1378763 wrote: Do you know why you're full of crap Ahso?

Every thread Spot has trashed the US and It's foreign policy, you have agreed with every word he has said and also critisized your own country.

No Vet, no serving troop, past or present would EVER trash their own country as you have on this forum. Any serving Military man would defend his country to the last and you haven't. You haven't even attempted to Justify US action. That's why I don't believe a word you say.

If you're a Vet, then my Auntie's got bollocks.



Get real will you oscar what planet are you on veterans past and present have always been critical of their governments and the stupidity of war it's only right wing nutters like you that can't seem to grasp that blind patriotism is not something to be encouraged. there are whole generations of people in ww1 and 2 that could tell you what is wrong with that notion. American soldiers have it harder than most, they go to war to fight for freedom and them find they are told they are traitors if they dare to speak out against going to war and benefits cut as soon as their politicians think they can get away with it. The anti vietnam war protests really got going when veterans started joining in the protests it's just convenient for politicians to forget that fact and pretend it was all a bunch of unwashed hippies.

Where JJ has got it wrong is that the war in iraq was not about defending freedom any more that the war in Vietnam was. The poem he quotes was not glorifying the troops and warfare it's a reminder to not let it all have been in vain the author had been through two world wars where ordinary men and women had been slaughtered at the whim of politicians his contemporaries would have understood exactly what he meant. Wilfred own and Siegfried Sassoon both faced extreme hostility for daring to speak out against the war. That people like JJ now use those words to bolster his blind patriotism is sad and pathetic maybe he should think about the context and the time they were written in.

You can't detract from the braveryand integrity of the soldiers but then soldiers have always been better men than the politicians who send them to war. They haven't made the world safer for everybody and the real tragedy is idiots like JJ think they have, if they really cared they would only support war as a last resort.
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Post by Clodhopper »

Kohima: 800 men of the Royal West Kents and 700 assorted troops from various units including muleteers and police auxiliaries were surrounded and held off 30,000 Japanese for 12 days until relieved. That's amazing enough. But Kohima was the smaller and more chaotic part of a double battle - the bigger part was going on simultaneously at Imphal. The casualties together were 13,500 for the British and Indian troops involved, and about 55,000 for the Japanese. That's the biggest defeat ever in Japanese military history.

General Bill Slim is one of the best and least known commanders of the war.
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Post by Snooz »

I spent four years active duty Air Force and five years in the AF Reserves... I doubt that gives me any more credibility that anyone else in this thread, though. I was strongly against us invading Iraq but I support our troops.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

SnoozeAgain;1378803 wrote: I spent four years active duty Air Force and five years in the AF Reserves... I doubt that gives me any more credibility that anyone else in this thread, though. I was strongly against us invading Iraq but I support our troops.



I admire you for that my little sperm whale and I would share a Jammy Dodger with you any time.
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Post by Ahso! »

SnoozeAgain;1378803 wrote: I was strongly against us invading Iraq but I support our troops.
Square that up for me if it's not asking too much.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



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Post by Snooz »

I'm not sure what "square that up" means but if you don't understand my comment, I doubt I could explain it to you.
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Post by Ahso! »

SnoozeAgain;1378806 wrote: I'm not sure what "square that up" means but if you don't understand my comment, I doubt I could explain it to you.
I doubted it too.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

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Post by Ahso! »

oscar;1378804 wrote: I admire you for that my little sperm whale and I would share a Jammy Dodger with you any time.
Snoozieque, don't you think you should fart so Oscar can catch her breath?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean


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Post by Snooz »

Ahso!;1378807 wrote: I doubted it too.



Are you purposely being an ******* or does it just come naturally? Our troops were sent into a no-win situation and many lost their lives for it. They didn't have the choice, our president is the one that started this police action. What's so ****ing difficult to understand?
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Post by Snooz »

Ahso!;1378808 wrote: Snoozieque, don't you think you should fart so Oscar can catch her breath?



Jesus. Have you really been waiting all this time to throw that back in my face? You DO follow spot around the forum and obsequiously agree with everything he posts. What a useless member of this forum you are.
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Post by Bruv »

jones jones;1378749 wrote: Only time will tell.................wouldn't you say ?

Perhaps this has another hidden meaning then other than that you expect the colors to run?



This was your penultimate post in this thread so far.

No reply just more obfuscation...........I am not clever enough to lead you or hide meanings.

Your opening post said it had made the world free, or something similar, my simple unambiguous response was that "Only time will tell"



I think I have 'worked you out'.

Your return thread was full of 'look at me look at me' dramatics

We in the UK would call you a wind up merchant, you set the fuse and wait and watch and get your jollies.

I would describe you as a bit of a drama queen.

Still no half decent reply to any of the posts in this thread.............remind me of this post should I ever find myself enticed into one of your 'getting off' threads.
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Post by Ahso! »

SnoozeAgain;1378810 wrote: Jesus. Have you really been waiting all this time to throw that back in my face? You DO follow spot around the forum and obsequiously agree with everything he posts. What a useless member of this forum you are.

I haven't been waiting, I just saw it and visions of you came to me. You didn't handle it very well though.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Ahso!;1378814 wrote: I haven't been waiting, I just saw it and visions of you came to me. You didn't handle it very well though.
That's It.... I'll never share my 4 minute lightly poached egg with you Mister.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Post by Ahso! »

SnoozeAgain;1378809 wrote: Are you purposely being an ******* or does it just come naturally? Our troops were sent into a no-win situation and many lost their lives for it. They didn't have the choice, our president is the one that started this police action. What's so ****ing difficult to understand?
Each and every one had a choice and a responsibility to not go or join. Their family members are just as responsible for not stopping these young people. The fact is that these young people have been conditioned to be paid killers (murderers) for God and Country. I don't support that, never have and never will.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean


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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Ahso!;1378817 wrote: Each and every one had a choice and a responsibility not to go or join. Their family members are just as responsible for not stopping these young people. The fact is that these young people have been conditioned to be paid killers (murderers) for God and Country. I don't support that, never have and never will.



Then you are not a Vet.... If you were, you are a bloody hypocrite writing that.
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Post by Ahso! »

oscar;1378819 wrote: Then you are not a Vet.... If you were, you are a bloody hypocrite writing that.
What if i am, Oscar? What do I gain by proving it to you? Let's negotiate.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean


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Post by jones jones »

Betty Boop;1378771 wrote: How ironic, a thread where JJ wants to celebrate the homecoming of troops ends up breaking out in... war :rolleyes:



"Miss Boop ... Miss Boop wait!" Jj cries. "I need your hel...." His voice trails off, he's too late. She has left ro rejoin The Grigori, leaving behind only the wondrous perfume of "Angel" by Thierry Mugler!
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
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Post by jones jones »

Bruv;1378812 wrote: This was your penultimate post in this thread so far.

No reply just more obfuscation...........I am not clever enough to lead you or hide meanings.

Your opening post said it had made the world free, or something similar, my simple unambiguous response was that "Only time will tell"



I think I have 'worked you out'.

Your return thread was full of 'look at me look at me' dramatics

We in the UK would call you a wind up merchant, you set the fuse and wait and watch and get your jollies.

I would describe you as a bit of a drama queen.

Still no half decent reply to any of the posts in this thread.............remind me of this post should I ever find myself enticed into one of your 'getting off' threads.



Citizen Bruv; I put up this thread because I love America and because I have great respect for their Armed Forces. I think that if you are honest you will agree that in this thread and in Spot's about the US drone over Iran, it is I Jj who has been on the receiving end of quite a bit of abuse and name calling.

Take this remark for instance and I had not even said a word to this person on this thread: "They haven't made the world safer for everybody and the real tragedy is idiots like JJ think they have, if they really cared they would only support war as a last resort.

This is me the "wind-up merchant ... the drama queen getting off my jollies? I think not.

Of course every member here or anywhere else for that matter, has the constitutional right to disagree with everything I ever post. I respect and support that notion. However, I too have the right to remain silent when I feel I have nothing I want to add to a thread and I am not obliged to answer any questions, especially when I feel that they are not being asked in good faith.

I do not know you or anything at all about you. If by including you in my silly little short story I have annoyed you ... then I apologise. I only did it to ease some of the tension I sensed was building up in the thread.

And no, I will not "remind you about this post" when you are enticed into any of my threads ... I don't want you missing out on all the fun!

You take care now and have a totally awesome day!
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
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Post by Ahso! »

I'd say you reap what you sow.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



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Post by LarsMac »

Well, I "served" in the military.

While my particular service at best unremarkable, I have had many family members who were in the thick of it during many campaigns.

Politics aside, the men and women who did their duty in Iraq, deserve the respect of all of us.

Thank you JJ for your attempt to honor them.
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Post by Ahso! »

LarsMac;1378859 wrote: Well, I "served" in the military.

While my particular service at best unremarkable, I have had many family members who where in the thick of it during many campaigns.

Politics aside, the men and women who did their duty in Iraq, deserve the respect of all of us.

Thank you JJ for your attempt to honor them.
So, we're honoring people who do their duty then, not only military personnel? Funny that we don't see threads that honor every other profession or daily goings on in life.

What I'd like to know is what did the military people who served in Iraq do for us citizens or America as a country that's worth getting so giddy over?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean


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Post by Bruv »

Ahso!;1378862 wrote: So, we're honoring people who do their duty then, not only military personnel? Funny that we don't see threads that honor every other profession or daily goings on in life.

What I'd like to know is what did the military people who served in Iraq do for us citizens or America as a country that's worth getting so giddy over?



Are you from the same school of wind up that Jj comes from ?

Allow people there moment.........walk away.
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Post by Ahso! »

Bruv;1378870 wrote: Are you from the same school of wind up that Jj comes from ?

Allow people there moment.........walk away.
Their moment for what exactly, Bruv? Praise people for willingly participating in the murder of hundreds of thousands of people for no good reason? Are you also an unconscious drone like too many of my fellow Americans have become?

It's a discussion board, Bruv, do you have anything relevant to add to the thread?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean


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Post by Bruv »

Ahso!;1378878 wrote: Their moment for what exactly, Bruv?

Whatever they want in that moment..........what THEY want......space to consider.
Praise people for willingly participating in the murder of hundreds of thousands of people for no good reason?
Am I praising ? Have I passed any opinion about whether praise is due ? I have respectfully kept quiet and allowed people who wish to have their moment to have that moment, my only comment has been to question the proposed statement that the world is a safer place. I have sown a seed, and walked away.
Are you also an unconscious drone like too many of my fellow Americans have become?
I don't think so, have you become an unthinking, unfeeling, unsympathetic domineering, thought controlling American ?



It's a discussion board, Bruv, do you have anything relevant to add to the thread?

Not at this moment no.........................if you have nothing more to add............I suggest you say nothing also.
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Post by Ahso! »

Sorry, but I'm not going to stand by while people thank others for murdering people simply because it was their duty to do so. Young people who read this thread will see the words of a person who served and rejected the mindless "thank you(s)" for unquestioned participation in those murders.

It's not okay and cool to become a member of a group whose job entails murder on demand when no eminent danger towards them exists. The war was not only illegal, it was morally wrong on every conceivable level, and everyone who participated in that war (and almost all wars) bares responsibility.

For those who joined after the war began, there is also particular shame for them to bare and especially those who raised them for not standing against national authorities, including the conditioning that occurred through the school system, the church, the television, radio and so on.

As for me walking away, you can give that one up. Perhaps you should reread the thread title. You may, if you wish, substitute "walk" for "run".
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean


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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Ahso!;1378883 wrote: Sorry, but I'm not going to stand by while people thank others for murdering people simply because it was their duty to do so. Young people who read this thread will see the words of a person who served and rejected the mindless "thank you(s)" for unquestioned participation in those murders.

It's not okay and cool to become a member of a group whose job entails murder on demand when no eminent danger towards them exists. The war was not only illegal, it was morally wrong on every conceivable level, and everyone who participated in that war (and almost all wars) bares responsibility.

For those who joined after the war began, there is also particular shame for them to bare and especially those who raised them for not standing against national authorities, including the conditioning that occurred through the school system, the church, the television, radio and so on.

As for me walking away, you can give that one up. Perhaps you should reread the thread title. You may, if you wish, substitute "walk" for "run".



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Post by TruthBringer »

I can understand the feeling of the need to defend one's homeland and country, but I can't understand why anyone would ever want to defend the interests of our corrupt government officials and their money interests around the World. This would explain to me why many soldiers are starting to get the feeling that they were intentionally tossed into a meat grinder by individuals, groups of individuals, and certain organizations that could on the other hand care less about the interests of those soldiers OR their families. But I can tell you who does care, and the way to get the Holy Spirit to enter inside you all and to begin a work in you that will remain with you for all your days. Profess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that He died on the cross for our sins and that He was risen from the dead and It shall be done. You shall be one of His. One of our Father's children. He will never leave you or forsake you after that. Can you say the same about the government and it's cronies? No. Not at all. Never have been able to and never will. Put your faith and your trust in the Father, where it can not be eaten by moths or trampled underfoot by swine. Love Him with all your Heart, your Mind, and your Soul, and your neighbor as yourself, even if the second is from a distance, and you will have fulfilled your Brother's 2 Holy commandments. Do all these things, and practice them regularly, and you will receive the greatest gift of all promised by Him to all of His own, the promise of that which is Eternal Life.

Here is an alternative viewpoint to all of this: Click On This Link: The Elite, the, Click On This Link: » Obama Launching World War III Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!, Click On This Link: NWO Plans.. Exposed, by Former Insider - YouTube, My Friends, Many Of The American Troops In Iraq And Afghanistan Are Coming Out Against The War. They Are Waking Up And They Are Trying To Wake Up Others! Click On This Link To See Their Video: American Soldiers Are WAKING UP!! SUPPORT OF TAKING AMERICA BACK!!! (StopTheRobbery2) - YouTube, Click On This Link To Learn The Truth About The Illuminati's Wars On Humanity: Every American and her Allies should listen to this. - YouTube, Click On This Link: HD - THE WORLD IS WAKING UP, ILLUMINATI EXPOSED, GLOBAL PROTEST And RIOTS 2010 - YouTube
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Post by Bruv »

Then make your feelings known in an independent thread dedicated to that purpose.

I feel my comment was in keeping with the terms of the thread, your comments more like the nutters of Westboro...................there is a time and a place for everything.
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Post by Ahso! »

SnoozeAgain;1378810 wrote: What a useless member of this forum you are.
There you go shrieking again, snoozie-poo-poo. The only useless members of any forum are those lackeys who develop opinions based solely on slogans like: "I was strongly against us invading Iraq but I support our troops." There's a sad sense that comes over me whenever I meet a person who has applied themselves to the learning of language for the purpose of expression and lacks the intelligence to actually think for themselves. Standing among the multitudes of mindless, witless people only exposes you as one while you hope to one day shine for 15 minutes of fame before them.

So, I'll ask again, this time in more easily understood language: for those troops who hadn't merely found themselves stuck in a "no-win" situation but instead joined the military with the full understanding what they were volunteering for after the commencement of the Iraq war, what's your excuse for them?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean


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Post by Ahso! »

Bruv;1378895 wrote: Then make your feelings known in an independent thread dedicated to that purpose.

I feel my comment was in keeping with the terms of the thread, your comments more like the nutters of Westboro...................there is a time and a place for everything.
You can say then that I'm "Occupying" this thread if you wish.

I have a right, and more so, a duty to my country to engage my fellow Americans when I believe they're behaving like robots, and, in the case of two other outsiders, idiots.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean


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Post by Ahso! »

The OP of this thread belongs on FB where the "like" button can register unconscious habits of agreement and dissent can be deleted by the owner of the piece. This is a forum where people actually debate issues, and call BS "BS" when BS is put forward.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean


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Post by Snooz »

Ahso!;1378897 wrote: There you go shrieking again, snoozie-poo-poo. The only unless members of any forum are those lackeys who develop opinions based solely on slogans like: "I was strongly against us invading Iraq but I support our troops." There's a sad sense that comes over me whenever I meet a person who has applied themselves to the learning of language for the purpose of expression and lacks the intelligence to actually think for themselves. Standing among the multitudes of mindless, witless people only exposes you as one while you hope to one day shine for 15 minutes of fame before them.

So, I'll ask again, this time in more easily understood language: for those troops who hadn't merely found themselves stuck in a "no-win" situation but instead joined the military with the full understanding what they were volunteering for after the commencement of the Iraq war, what's your excuse for them?



I doubt any rational, intelligent person would read "What a useless member of this forum you are." and hear it in their mind as a shrill, often frantic cry, which proves my point that you're a useless member of this forum. So thanks for that stupid comment, it just reinforced the fact that you're in this thread trolling.

Your "instead joined the military with the full understanding what they were volunteering for after the commencement of the Iraq war" was never part of the discussion until you emptied your bile all over this thread. Unless and until you can show me some research that shows there's a significant amount of people that joined the military for the express purpose of shooting and killing Iraqis, then the point is moot. I will however remind you that our president and his staff drove the "fact" that we were attacking the people that attacked us after 9-11 down our throats till even disagreeing with someone of a different political party was considered un-American.

I don't know what branch of the military you're claiming to have served in, but in all the ones I'm familiar with, you don't get the option of disobeying orders. You're supposed to have faith and trust in your leadership. I support our troops but I condemn their leaders.

And you're a pathetic excuse for a veteran.
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Post by Bruv »

Ahso!;1378899 wrote: You can say then that I'm "Occupying" this thread if you wish.




Then I shall go about my daily business and not engage you about your separate issue in this thread, have a nice occupation.
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Post by Ahso! »

Bruv;1378908 wrote: Then I shall go about my daily business and not engage you about your separate issue in this thread, have a nice occupation.



What separate issue might that be? What I'm trying to find out is what defensible position is worth thanking the troops for. If it's for doing their duty, I'd appreciate clarification of exactly what that means, but it appears to be too ambiguous to articulate. If on the other hand we're thanking the troops because we feel sorry for them because they became snared in a political game then why did people continue to join after that became evident?

I appreciate the apparent fact that you male Brits are polite and I often admire that quality about many of you, it speaks well of your cultural upbringing. Us Americans are more rough around the edges however and we mix it up a little dirtier than you may be used to, sorry to say. That's just how it is. Some of my fellow citizens like to claim that's what's made America great, but I have my doubts.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean


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Post by Bruv »

Ahso!;1378915 wrote: What separate issue might that be? What I'm trying to find out is what defensible position is worth thanking the troops for. If it's for doing their duty, I'd appreciate clarification of exactly that means, but it appearsto be too ambiguous to articulate. If on the other hand we're thanking the troops because we feel sorry for them because they became snared in a political game then why did people continue to join after that became evident?

I appreciate the apparent fact that you male Brits are polite and I often admire that quality about many of you, it speaks well of your cultural upbringing. Us Americans are more rough around the edges however and we mix it up a little dirtier than you may be used to, sorry to say. That's just how it is. Some of my fellow citizens like to claim that's what's made America great, but I have my doubts.



Bruv;1378908 wrote: Then I shall go about my daily business and not engage you about your separate issue in this thread, have a nice occupation.

I shall repeat....
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Post by Ahso! »

Bruv;1378928 wrote: I shall repeat....
I'm sure that's your best option, see ya!
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



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Post by Ahso! »

SnoozeAgain;1378905 wrote: I doubt any rational, intelligent person would read "What a useless member of this forum you are." and hear it in their mind as a shrill, often frantic cry,
Yeah, you've developed a style all your own.

SnoozeAgain;1378905 wrote: Your "instead joined the military with the full understanding what they were volunteering for after the commencement of the Iraq war" was never part of the discussion until you emptied your bile all over this thread. Unless and until you can show me some research that shows there's a significant amount of people that joined the military for the express purpose of shooting and killing Iraqis, then the point is moot. I will however remind you that our president and his staff drove the "fact" that we were attacking the people that attacked us after 9-11 down our throats till even disagreeing with someone of a different political party was considered un-American.
Why else would they have joined, our little Kit-Kat? According to you the war was wrong but it's the leaders who are to blame, or do I have that wrong? It's becoming a bit difficult following you all over the place. After it was determined that we found out there was little to no terrorists in Iraq we changed the marketing to "insurgents", but any way you look at it, our troops were killing mainly Iraqis.

I get a kick out of people who think as you do, you take a situation where a certain political philosophy justifies a horrendous position, tweak it a little so you can barely avoid calling yourself a conservative and then try to pass yourself off as independent minded. Laughable.

SnoozeAgain;1378905 wrote: I don't know what branch of the military you're claiming to have served in, but in all the ones I'm familiar with, you don't get the option of disobeying orders. You're supposed to have faith and trust in your leadership. I support our troops but I condemn their leaders.
So it's better to murder than face the consequences of disobeying an order or being a conscientious objector? That's not the American values I ascribe to. We're obviously very different people, you and me.

SnoozeAgain;1378905 wrote: And you're a pathetic excuse for a veteran.
There's that dull shriek again. I guess since I'm not drinking your cool-aide and reciting your preferred script I'm pathetic? So be it, I can live with that.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Ahso!;1378937 wrote:



There's that dull shriek again. I guess since I'm not drinking your cool-aide and reciting your preferred script I'm pathetic? So be it, I can live with that.



You know, I've called you a liar before on this forum and I will do It again. Calling anyone a liar on a forum Is something I would not do lightly but then, most posters are able to back up their claims. All we ever have with you, Is words, no evidence, no proof.

Snooze Is right, you're a troll and no use to this forum whatsoever.

Everything you have written In this thread Is a rehash of which Spot has written at some point. I think that Is the purpose of your posts, to Impress the Greater Spotted one.

You say you are a war veteran?

By the mere definition of the word 'Veteran', you must have served for some considerable amount of years and not one tour of duty to call yourself a veteran.

Thus, If you were a veteran, why would you spend many years In the military serving your country and then decide they were all murderers?

It doesn't ring true.

I have four nephews serving In Iraq and Afghanistan and they often question their deployment. I spend a great deal of time with members of The Royal British Legion which Includes Gulf war veterans and they sometimes question their deployment but.... I have never heard the crap you are spouting here come from any of them.

They signed up to serve their Queen and country, not, oh goodie... let's go and kill some Iraqi's.'

Because I do have serving men In my family and I do have a lot to do with the RBL, I know that you are full of crap. Any military man past or present would not serve for some considerable amount of time, enough to call himself a vet, and then speak the way you do.

You're In fantasy land and I suspect the truth Is, you have never been anywhere near the US military.
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Post by Ahso! »

oscar;1378967 wrote:

Snooze Is right, you're a troll and no use to this forum whatsoever.

Everything you have written In this thread Is a rehash of which Spot has written at some point. I think that Is the purpose of your posts, to Impress the Greater Spotted one.
Snoozie, the risk of upsetting you notwithstanding, don't you think...breath?

Oscar, I have never before met a person as deposed to projecting as you. You're truly amazing.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Ahso!;1378974 wrote: Snoozie, the risk of upsetting you notwithstanding, don't you think...breath?

Oscar, I have never before met a person as deposed to projecting as you. You're truly amazing.



So In other words Ahso, my post hit home didn't It ? You've never been anywhere near the US military have you ?
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Post by Ahso! »

Just amazing.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Ahso!;1378978 wrote: Just amazing.



Tell you what Ahso... here's a pic I took at a military ceromony I was at recently.... thought I'd give you an Idea as you obviously have never been near one.

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Post by Oscar Namechange »

While I'm here Ahso.... Here's another pic from another ceromony. In this one, that's my husband pushing the Gulf War Vet In his wheelchair.... do you get the point now ? I'm able to back up that of which I state on this forum. Get It ?

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Post by flopstock »

jones jones;1378701 wrote: To the brave men and women of the American Armed Forces who will soon be coming from Iraq. Hold your heads up high … I don’t give a fiddler’s fart what anyone says, you have made the world a safer place for everyone!

“When you go home

Tell them of us, and say:

For your tomorrow

We gave our today!”

John Maxwell Edmonds (1875 – 1958)



I salute you!




I'm very happy to see the kids coming home. IMO they should have been brought home the day after bush kinda declared victory. Of course he was careful to leave himself an out..Bush declares ''victory'' in Iraq; Delivers message on aircraft carrier. | Goliath Business News

I think it was the soldiers coming back and talking about what was really going on over there to friends and family that actually turned opinion on our involvement. The national media was 150% part of the propaganda machine, IMO. It was the boots on the ground coming back and talking to local media that got the message delivered.
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Post by Ahso! »

Makes one wonder why the retention rate as well as enlistment sustained itself as well as it did if so many of the troops were bothered. No question some were upset with the situation, but it's difficult to see how it was anything other than a very small minority.

Recruit Quality Remains High
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean


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Post by Ahso! »

oscar;1378981 wrote: While I'm here Ahso.... Here's another pic from another ceromony. In this one, that's my husband pushing the Gulf War Vet In his wheelchair.... do you get the point now ? I'm able to back up that of which I state on this forum. Get It ?
You're definitely supplying ample evidence, Oscar, but it has zero to do with this discussion.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean


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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Ahso!;1378985 wrote: You're definitely supplying ample evidence, Oscar, but it has zero to do with this discussion.
Your words are true... Yes, I have evidence........ evidence that I know enough Vets to know you are lying. Where's your evidence Ahso ?

All you have written Is re-wording of what Spot has written on other threads.
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Post by fuzzywuzzy »

Hmmmm ........ met a person recently ..... I didn't see anything wrong with the opening post although I disagree with it, and to an extent so does the person I met recently .

I'm not sure who the soldiers made it a better world for ...certainly not for themselves or for a traumitised nation . Governments will tell you that democracy can be introduced immediately into a nation .....well how come it's taken so long for the western world to discover and implement democracy which in the end is so corrupt it's wrong. And that's what we are putting on another country (well at the moment several in fact) I'm sorry who has the world been made better for? Politicians? Oil tycoons? Arabs? Us?

When you have to put your hand over anothers because they are shaking and on the verge of tears because a mobile phone is ringing for too long or scrape them off the ceiling because a car backfires or beeps it's horn. Who is the world made better for? I love how those patriots and politicains can totally destroy a human being and cover what they have done by calling them a hero. I love it when those same people can destroy a country and it's people calling them 'the enemy' and then in 50 years time 'the victims'.



The number of dead soldiers is posted but not the number of dead Iraqis...... please put the number up so we can all see how we helped them. You wanna help returned soldiers? Then get your politicians to look after them and their families when they return.

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