muslim fanatics hurl hate abuse at our soldiers the AAgrumpy column

[pantoandy]

hello its only grumps back again with another rant for your pleasure

i came across this not just in the sun but carried by the majority of the national newspapers a story which sickened me .

BRAVE soldiers back from Iraq were forced to endure a tirade of abuse yesterday — from hate-filled BRITISH Muslims.

Fifteen fanatics staged a sickening protest — sanctioned by police — as 200 Royal Anglian troops marched in a welcome home parade.

They wielded banners branding the soldiers butchers, war criminals, murderers, terrorists — and baby killers.

They brandished placards showing obscene photos of mutilated children. And they yelled: “Anglian soldiers go to hell.”

Support soldiers from the Royal Anglian regiment at homecoming parades in Watford at 12.30pm today and Lincoln at 12.15pm tomorrow

The demo triggered fury among thousands of well-wishers who turned out to salute the troops in Luton, Beds.

One an 18-year-old man was today charged with racially aggravated harassment.

The second aged in his 40s, was handed a fixed penalty notice.

And as they were challenged by angry onlookers, cops formed a protective ring around them.

The soldiers, from the Anglians’ 2nd Battalion, recently returned from a tough six-month tour in Basra, southern Iraq, where they trained local forces.

Last night the treatment meted out to them by the extremists was denounced by a host of political leaders including Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Defence Secretary John Hutton.

Mr Hutton said: “I condemn the tiny minority who used this opportunity to make utterly ridiculous and insulting comments to these brave men and women.”

Mr Brown said: “The whole country is proud of our brave servicemen and women who serve their country with great distinction and courage.

“It is therefore disappointing a tiny minority tried but ultimately failed to disrupt today’s event.” Shadow Defence Secretary Dr Liam Fox called the demo “disgraceful, appalling and offensive”.

He added today that while there was a right to freedom of speech “there is not a right to disruption”.

Muslim MP and Justice Minister Shahid Malik said: “All decent people will be sickened by the antics of this group of extremists. The idea that these soldiers are ‘baby killers’ is profoundly repugnant.”

The protest was staged by members of a group called Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah. It is thought to have been formed by former members of banned organisation Al-Muhajiroun.

They hurled abuse as the battalion, which has lost two young privates in action in Iraq, passed Luton town hall.

One of those arrested was a man who climbed on to a shopping centre roof to throw a packet of bacon at the fanatics.

Another local, who gave up his lunch break to hail the troops, said: “These Muslims were lucky they didn’t get lynched.

“To hear people scream ‘baby killers’ at our soldiers was appalling. On one hand they profess to hate everything about Britain and on the other they’re only too happy to live here and benefit from the protection of our police.”

The protesters remained defiant last night. One of them, Abu Omar, said: “Those soldiers were in Iraq murdering and mutilating innocent people. They had blood on their hands.”

Mr Omar, 30, who said he was born in Luton and is a carer for the disabled, added: “They have come into a town with a large Muslim population to promote an illegal war. It is a disgrace.

“We are supposed to congratulate and support terrorists who are no better than Hitler.”

But a member of Luton Central Mosque branded the fanatics “idiots”. He said: “They represent a small number of people from the Muslim community. Police should have moved them along.”

Supt Andy Martin defended the decision to allow the demo. He said: “We’ve been involved in the planning of this event. We were on hand to ensure members of the public who wished to watch could do so safely while anyone wanting to exercise their right to lawful protest could also be accommodated.”

The Army said the battalion — known as The Poachers — were “deeply touched” by those who turned out to applaud them. As the demo went on, fallen L/Cpl Stephen Kingscott of 1st Battalion, The Rifles, was given a funeral with full military honours in his home city of Plymouth, Devon.

Stephen, 22, was shot dead on patrol in Afghanistan. His parents Michael and Wendy said: “He will always be in our thoughts.”

AAG

without doing to much racialy motivated ranting i dont actually know who is worst the muslim fanatics or the police for allowing this to happen.

the daily star described them as the enemy within.

this is true the police could have realisticly arrested them all for inciting racial hatred checked their immigration status and booted them out of the uk.

yet 2 people were arrested the gentleman who threw a packet of bacon at the fanatics which i personally thought very funny and an 18 year old who was ironicly arrested for racial hatred yet the filth didnt arrest one fanatic for racial hatred no wonder theres no respect for lilly law when they side with scum like this.

the crowd could have easily been outnumbered by the watchers and these fanatics hung from the nearest lamp post as what they were doing wasnt a lawfull protest but an act of treason against the country that took them in fed and gave shelter to this scum.

but on the other side even the politicians and the muslim community condemmed this act so hopefully retrebution will come from the muslim community if not why arent these fanatics being hunted and deported or is it our politicans making the appropriate noises ?

it appears that p.c no longer stands for police constable but political correctness

he should have thrown the bacon at the pigs sorry i mean police instead.



AAG

[Snowfire]

I was quite touched and impressed by the remarks of a young Sgt Major who when interviewed after the march said, with not a hint of irony in his voice "It is their God given right to protest"

Says a lot really

[OpenMind]

Now Muslim hate preacher mocks British troops' dead comrade after shame of homecoming protest | Mail Online



As far as I can tell, there were no racist taunts. They were protesting against the soldiers. They were actually protesting from the left hand wall of Luton Town Hall. The good thing is that they are in the extreme minority there.

[spot]

pantoandy;1155924 wrote: They wielded banners branding the soldiers butchers, war criminals, murderers, terrorists — and baby killers.Fair comment really then.

Tell me, if an Afghan regiment had spent the last six months hiding inside impregnable barracks in England and gone out under total air supremacy to blow up the homes of Labour Party supporters throughout, say, Dorset and Somerset, finally going back to parade through Herat, would you have sympathized with any Afghan war protesters who placarded their parade?

[pantoandy]

spot;1155944 wrote: Fair comment really then.

Tell me, if an Afghan regiment had spent the last six months hiding inside impregnable barracks in England and gone out under total air supremacy to blow up the homes of Labour Party supporters throughout, say, Dorset and Somerset, finally going back to parade through Herat, would you have sympathized with any Afghan war protesters who placarded their parade?


hi spot long time no see

its just wrong how these fanatics can incite racial hatred and get away with it yet a bystander throws a packet of bacon at them and is arrested by the filth .

THE POLITICALLY CORRECT BRIGADE STRIKE AGAIN !!!!!!

OR ONE LAW FOR US ONE LAW FOR THEM .

hope to cross swords with you again spot

[Oscar Namechange]

pantoandy;1155951 wrote: hi spot long time no see

its just wrong how these fanatics can incite racial hatred and get away with it yet a bystander throws a packet of bacon at them and is arrested by the filth .

THE POLITICALLY CORRECT BRIGADE STRIKE AGAIN !!!!!!

OR ONE LAW FOR US ONE LAW FOR THEM .

hope to cross swords with you again spot
The fact remains that the muslims in question are British citizens there-fore they have a right to protest and stage a demo providing no-one is assaulted. That is the law. Legally, they were doing nothing wrong. It is no different to me protesting against the thirs run-way or fox hunting.

The returning soldiers are not hero's, don't make that mistake. They volunteered and entered an illegal war based on lie's and corruption.

I wish i had known the venue as i would have been with them.

[pantoandy]

oscar;1155976 wrote: The fact remains that the muslims in question are British citizens there-fore they have a right to protest and stage a demo providing no-one is assaulted. That is the law. Legally, they were doing nothing wrong. It is no different to me protesting against the thirs run-way or fox hunting.

The returning soldiers are not hero's, don't make that mistake. They volunteered and entered an illegal war based on lie's and corruption.

I wish i had known the venue as i would have been with them.


then i am afraid spot you are a traitor to the crown and no better

[Oscar Namechange]

pantoandy;1156005 wrote: then i am afraid spot you are a traitor to the crown and no better I think you'll find that our fellow countrymen would agree with Spot and myself and not you.

Your hatred of the muslims and i remember your equally disdainful objection to the Palistinians protesting about Israel's action on Gaza, is down to your BNP tendencies rather than your legal knowledge or common sense.

YouTube - Blair & Bush (Hello)

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

[Oscar Namechange]

spot;1155944 wrote: Fair comment really then.

Tell me, if an Afghan regiment had spent the last six months hiding inside impregnable barracks in England and gone out under total air supremacy to blow up the homes of Labour Party supporters throughout, say, Dorset and Somerset, finally going back to parade through Herat, would you have sympathized with any Afghan war protesters who placarded their parade?


YouTube - dead ringers - blair and bush conference

Just for a little humour in the BNP rant.

[BTS]

oscar;1155976 wrote: The fact remains that the muslims in question are British citizens there-fore they have a right to protest and stage a demo providing no-one is assaulted. That is the law. Legally, they were doing nothing wrong. It is no different to me protesting against the thirs run-way or fox hunting.



The returning soldiers are not hero's, don't make that mistake. They volunteered and entered an illegal war based on lie's and corruption.

I wish i had known the venue as i would have been with them.


Two points......



1)

You defend the right of the Muslims here on this thread but in the hunting thread you put down the hunters who were legally hunting....



Quote, Oscar



"the muslims in question are British citizens there-fore they have a right to protest and stage a demo providing no-one is assaulted."



It could be said:

the huntsmen in question are British citizens there-fore they have a right to legally exist and stage a hunt providing no-one is assaulted.

Can't have it both ways.



2)

How do you figure this is an illegal war?

Show me the law broken?



il⋅le⋅gal   /ɪˈligəl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [i-lee-guhl] Show IPA

–adjective 1.forbidden by law or statute.2.contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc.: The referee ruled that it was an illegal forward pass.





And just because they enlisted they are not heros.........? (They didn't make up anything as you suppose)



You say you wish you could have been there to say this:



"They wielded banners branding the soldiers butchers, war criminals, murderers, terrorists — and baby killers.



They brandished placards showing obscene photos of mutilated children. And they yelled: “Anglian soldiers go to hell.”





Wow you might have attacked that kid out of malice and not to support a war veteran memorial after all???



I need to rethink here...

[Peter Lake]

BTS;1156161 wrote: Two points......



1)

You defend the right of the Muslims here on this thread but in the hunting thread you put down the hunters who were legally hunting....



Quote, Oscar



"the muslims in question are British citizens there-fore they have a right to protest and stage a demo providing no-one is assaulted."



It could be said:

the huntsmen in question are British citizens there-fore they have a right to legally exist and stage a hunt providing no-one is assaulted.

Can't have it both ways.



2)

How do you figure this is an illegal war?

Show me the law broken?



il⋅le⋅gal   /ɪˈligəl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [i-lee-guhl] Show IPA

–adjective 1.forbidden by law or statute.2.contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc.: The referee ruled that it was an illegal forward pass.





And just because they enlisted they are not heros.........? (They didn't make up anything as you suppose)



You say you wish you could have been there to say this:



"They wielded banners branding the soldiers butchers, war criminals, murderers, terrorists — and baby killers.



They brandished placards showing obscene photos of mutilated children. And they yelled: “Anglian soldiers go to hell.”





Wow you might have attacked that kid out of malice and not to support a war veteran memorial after all???



I need to rethink here...


Good evening BTS,

As my wife is going to be away for a few days and unable to answer you herself, I hope you do not mind if I do.

Oscar defends the right of Muslims in a legal sense. The Muslims in the demonstration are British. Under British law, they have freedom of speech and the legal right to protest in the street. Legally, they have not broken the law. They are legally entitled to display as they wish on their placards.

What Oscar said about the war being illegal is based on what events took place in Britain that led the government to invade Iraq. I won't explain in full but our former Prime Minister lied to the country. We went into Iraq based on that lie and it has since been proved that Britain was under no threat from Iraq as he claimed at the time.

Oscar objects to fox hunting because of the manner in which the animal is killed. It is illegal to hunt fox in this country.

Legally she is entitled to stage a demonstration or protest at a hunt exactly the same way as the Muslims are legally entitled to protest in the street. She is not contradicting herself here. If it were made law that it was illegal to hold a protest, she would not or be able to do it any more than the Muslims would be able to. I will no doubt be in trouble for posting this but my wife was not happy with the slogans on the banners. If it were a demonstration that just protested about British troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, she may have joined it. I doubt very much if she would have sincerely joined it with such slogans.

As for the kid, for one, I was there when it happened and I was there in court when the transcript of call made to the emergency services by a member of the public was read out to the judge. The member of the public was asking police help for my wife and not the eye witness accounts of 20-25 male youths surrounding her. In this country, we have two kinds of assault. Common assault and assault. The next charge up from assault is actual bodily harm. If the kid was 'attacked' she would have been charged with actual bodily harm. She was not even charged with assault. She was charged with common assault which as the arresting officer when reading you your rights has to point out that common assault can even include your clothing coming into contact with the clothing of another. There is no way a judge here would pass down a conditional discharge if any kid was 'attacked' also. By the by, the kid was asked how tall he was in court. He was 5ft 9 inches, two inches taller than my wife as were all the youths involved.

Thanks, Pete

[pantoandy]

oscar;1155976 wrote: The fact remains that the muslims in question are British citizens there-fore they have a right to protest and stage a demo providing no-one is assaulted. That is the law. Legally, they were doing nothing wrong. It is no different to me protesting against the thirs run-way or fox hunting.

The returning soldiers are not hero's, don't make that mistake. They volunteered and entered an illegal war based on lie's and corruption.

I wish i had known the venue as i would have been with them.


these scum will never be british citizens they are the enemy within terrorists

traitors and as i said backstabbers to the country that took them in fed them clothed them and gave them money and shelter .

dont you dare insult the indigious british with this clap trap

at the end of the day they have commited treason and should be deported

or prefably hung

[gmc]

oscar;1156018 wrote: I think you'll find that our fellow countrymen would agree with Spot and myself and not you.

Your hatred of the muslims and i remember your equally disdainful objection to the Palistinians protesting about Israel's action on Gaza, is down to your BNP tendencies rather than your legal knowledge or common sense.

YouTube - Blair & Bush (Hello)

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl


They might agree with you so far as opposing the war in the first place. But most are also appreciative of the sense of duty shown by these soldiers-whether you think it a valid sense of duty or not does not detract from the reality that it is there.

The fact remains that the muslims in question are British citizens there-fore they have a right to protest and stage a demo providing no-one is assaulted. That is the law. Legally, they were doing nothing wrong. It is no different to me protesting against the thirs run-way or fox hunting.


True they have right to protest the venue and people they chose are the wrong ones.

The ones to protest against are the politicians that got them in to this mess in the first place. This demonstration was a red herring. All the islamic protesters want to do is provoke a reaction and stir up anti muslim sentiment in the hope that there is a violent reaction. They are lucky they didn't get attacked-no doubt that is what they were hoping would happen. It's a dangerous way to go about things. for all we are a relatively easy going and tolerant nation inclined to live and let live we are also very warlike. It's not the BNP mindless thugs they need to worry about it's annoying the liberal minded majority of the population to the point they will not tolerate this kind of demonstration or calls for the sharia law in england Their spokesperson is also the one calling for sharia law in england-hardly a calming influence. No doubt they will try the same kind of tactic again, if they do i suspect there might indeed be a very violent reaction. To mock the soldiers that were killed is offensive in the extreme.

Maybe they should go to pakistan and try exercising their democratic rights there.

Pakistan locks up hundreds in bid to silence protests - Asia, World - The Independent

In a move compared to the authoritarian tactics used by the former president Pervez Musharraf, police carried out pre-dawn raids across Punjab province and used British colonial-era legislation to impose a ban on any gatherings of more than four people.




Ironic eh?

Student facing 20 years in hell - Asia, World - The Independent

[QUOTE]Afzal Nooristani, the legal campaigner representing Mr Kambaksh, accused the judges of behaving "no better than the Taliban". Hundreds of millions of dollars have been poured into Afghanistan's legal system and 149 British soldiers have died there since 2001, but experts admit that state justice is still beyond the reach of most ordinary Afghans.




As it happens I don't think we should have got involved in Afghanistan either but that doesn't detract from the fact that our soldier are doing a tough job, it's a pity our politicians are such a bunch of numpties with gordon brown one of the biggest.



posted by BTS

It could be said:

the huntsmen in question are British citizens there-fore they have a right to legally exist and stage a hunt providing no-one is assaulted.

Can't have it both ways.


Actually they don't. it is illegal in this country and the riot you are referring to was them trying to prevent the law banning it being passed.

posted by BTS

Liberalism is an easy road to walk down. You simply do not believe in anything and when those that come to kill you approach, you embrace them with opens arms.


What an inane comment. You live in a liberal democracy do you think it was easy to achieve? A lot of peole were wiling to fight and die for liberty. People who believe in liberty are the most dangerous on the planet as they just will not give in no matter what you do to them-a fact fo which you should be eternally grateful. I think you are confusing liberals with hippies or christians of a happy clappy disposition-turn the other cheek and all that.

[pantoandy]

and for my column i recived this

You have received an infraction at ForumGarden

Dear pantoandy,

You have received an infraction at ForumGarden.

Reason: No "Offensive" Posts, Links or Images: Please do not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, racist, sexist, discriminatory, or otherwise violative of any local or international laws. This includes links in your signature, profile, bookmarks as well as posted images, photos and avatars. Staff will ultimately decide if something is appropriate or not.

-------

Please remember the limits of this forum regarding racism. Inciting violence against specific people is well beyond those limits.

-------

This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/warfa ... ost1156222

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscar View Post

The fact remains that the muslims in question are British citizens there-fore they have a right to protest and stage a demo providing no-one is assaulted. That is the law. Legally, they were doing nothing wrong. It is no different to me protesting against the thirs run-way or fox hunting.

The returning soldiers are not hero's, don't make that mistake. They volunteered and entered an illegal war based on lie's and corruption.

I wish i had known the venue as i would have been with them.

these scum will never be british citizens they are the enemy within terrorists

traitors and as i said backstabbers to the country that took them in fed them clothed them and gave them money and shelter .

dont you dare insult the indigious british with this clap trap

at the end of the day they have commited treason and should be deported

or prefably hung

All the best,

ForumGarden

__________________

Having the right to an opinion does not make your opinion right.

AAG

it appears that even freedom of speech is gagged on the FG

and oscar didnt like what i wrote so she reported me for an infraction.

yet oscar is quoted as saying if she knew of the venue she would have joined them i replied if you support muslim terrorists you are also a traitor to the crown.

i stick with my original statement and i do not retract my statement that the protesting fanatics are scum they are and i will not retract my statement that they are not british subjects but dangerous foreign terrorists which we let in to our country and keep just for them to plot against us and make bombs killing innocent civilians which is treason yet we still allow them to go about their daily lives spouting their jihad rubbish and that england will be an islamic state and the best bit is they know who they are !!!

why arent they being deported at gatwick or swinging on a rope in pentonville ?

if our troops are no better than hitler they are the equviliant of lord haw haw the best thing was he was hung.

when will you see these dangerous terrorists for what they are after they,ve committed another 911 in london by flying a plane simultaniously into the houses of parliment and number 10 or blown up a shopping mall like harrods or selfridges

DONT SAY IT COULDNT HAPPEN IT COULD!!!by gagging the truth like here on the FG lets you see and hear only what they want you to see and hear

PERSONALLY YOU CAN STICK YOUR INFRACTION UP YOUR JUMPER AND IF THIS GETS ME ANOTHER INFRACTON STICK THAT ONE UP THERE TOO

as to my being a BNP supporter i am and hope they get in and sort this countries mess out.

OH BY THE WAY ITS CALLED FREEDOM OF SPEECH

[spot]

I suspect it had nothing to do with your quoting the entire article in full, much though I deplore it and much though it's against the rules here. I suspect it was for the scum traitors backstabbers treason deported hung comments. Hateful and threatening? Hard to see how words like that wouldn't qualify and you can't even hide behind their being quotes.

[OpenMind]

I agree very much with freedom of speech but I do expect that right to be used with truthful statements.

[YZGI]

spot;1156368 wrote: I suspect it had nothing to do with your quoting the entire article in full, much though I deplore it and much though it's against the rules here. I suspect it was for the scum traitors backstabbers treason deported hung comments. Hateful and threatening? Hard to see how words like that wouldn't qualify and you can't even hide behind their being quotes.
Not wanting to start any trouble here but how is that any different than some of the posts about Bush, Blair, Cheney etc. etc. Calling them terrorists, war criminals and many more things? If you ask for instances, it may take me awhile because I'm a bit bust today but I should be able to come up with some.



By the way, this is not directed towards you Spot nor any other particular poster. This is just an observance.

[spot]

YZGI;1156373 wrote: Not wanting to start any trouble here but how is that any different than some of the posts about Bush, Blair, Cheney etc. etc. Calling them terrorists, war criminals and many more things? If you ask for instances, it may take me awhile because I'm a bit bust today but I should be able to come up with some.



By the way, this is not directed towards you Spot nor any other particular poster. This is just an observance.


Two things. Firstly the terminology used, and second what's being called for. In Andy's case it's extra judicial vigilante persecution. In my case it's solely a demand for a judicial process applying the law of the land.

I accuse the Bush White House Administration of standing down US air defences on 9/11 and suppressing any attempt at an independent investigation.

I accuse the FBI of collusion before and after the fact.

I accuse some section of the US intelligence community or foreknowledge of the 9/11 attack, which they deliberately failed to prevent and actively facilitated.

I accuse the Bush White House Administration of taking steps to see that the attack succeeded, and that without such efforts on their part (reaching back as far as changing standing orders on air interception) the natural course of US Homeland Defence would have stopped the attacks from reaching their destinations.

None of that involves hateful or threatening language, it's entirely dispassionate and testable in a court of law. It's accusatory.

[BTS]

gmc;1156301 wrote:





posted by BTS





Actually they don't. it is illegal in this country and the riot you are referring to was them trying to prevent the law banning it being passed.



posted by BTS

Liberalism is an easy road to walk down. You simply do not believe in anything and when those that come to kill you approach, you embrace them with opens arms.

Conservatism, however is a difficult path. It is one where principles are supreme and the realization that embracing the enemy gives him the opportunity to stick a knife in your back.





What an inane comment. You live in a liberal democracy do you think it was easy to achieve? A lot of peole were wiling to fight and die for liberty. People who believe in liberty are the most dangerous on the planet as they just will not give in no matter what you do to them-a fact fo which you should be eternally grateful. I think you are confusing liberals with hippies or christians of a happy clappy disposition-turn the other cheek and all that.
huh..

If it is illegal then why were the hunters NOT arrested when they complained about the nut buzzing them 10 days earlier?

It appears they must have been within their rights?



I think you are confusing the menings of liberalism and liberty...

[gmc]

BTS;1156410 wrote: huh..

If it is illegal then why were the hunters NOT arrested when they complained about the nut buzzing them 10 days earlier?

It appears they must have been within their rights?



I think you are confusing the menings of liberalism and liberty...


I think they were drag hunting which is not illegal, but the hunt saboteurs follow to make sure they don't go after foxes. but I would have to check.



[QUOTE]I think you are confusing the menings of liberalism and liberty..




They have the same linguistic root.

liberty

• noun (pl. liberties) 1 the state of being free from oppression or imprisonment. 2 a right or privilege. 3 the power or scope to act as one pleases. 4 informal a presumptuous remark or action.

— PHRASES take liberties 1 behave in an unduly familiar manner towards a person. 2 treat something freely, without strict faithfulness to the facts or to an original. take the liberty do something without first asking permission.

— ORIGIN Latin libertas, from liber ‘free’.




liberal

• adjective 1 willing to respect and accept behaviour or opinions different from one’s own. 2 (of a society, law, etc.) favourable to individual rights and freedoms. 3 (in a political context) favouring individual liberty, free trade, and moderate reform. 4 (Liberal) (in the UK) relating to the Liberal Democrat party. 5 (especially of an interpretation of a law) not strictly literal. 6 given, used, or giving in generous amounts. 7 (of education) concerned with broadening general knowledge and experience.

• noun 1 a person of liberal views. 2 (Liberal) (in the UK) a Liberal Democrat.

— DERIVATIVES liberalism noun liberality noun liberally adverb.

— ORIGIN originally meaning "suitable for a free man": from Latin liberalis, from liber ‘free man’


A more interesting question is why have so many americans been taught to denigrate the very principles their nation was supposedly founded on. Give me liberty or give me death is the perennial call to arms cry of the liberal in defence of individual freedom. When someone criticising the actions of his government can be dismissed as a traitorous wishy washy liberal something is perhaps wrong. Liberals and those of a liberal disposition will inherit the earth. sooner or later they prevail

[Peter Lake]

pantoandy;1156366 wrote: and for my column i recived this

You have received an infraction at ForumGarden

Dear pantoandy,



__________________

Having the right to an opinion does not make your opinion right.

AAG

it appears that even freedom of speech is gagged on the FG

and oscar didnt like what i wrote so she reported me for an infraction.

yet oscar is quoted as saying if she knew of the venue she would have joined them i replied if you support muslim terrorists you are also a traitor to the crown.

i stick with my original statement and i do not retract my statement that the protesting fanatics are scum they are and i will not retract my statement that they are not british subjects but dangerous foreign terrorists which we let in to our country and keep just for them to plot against us and make bombs killing innocent civilians which is treason yet we still allow them to go about their daily lives spouting their jihad rubbish and that england will be an islamic state and the best bit is they know who they are !!!

why arent they being deported at gatwick or swinging on a rope in pentonville ?

if our troops are no better than hitler they are the equviliant of lord haw haw the best thing was he was hung.

when will you see these dangerous terrorists for what they are after they,ve committed another 911 in london by flying a plane simultaniously into the houses of parliment and number 10 or blown up a shopping mall like harrods or selfridges

DONT SAY IT COULDNT HAPPEN IT COULD!!!by gagging the truth like here on the FG lets you see and hear only what they want you to see and hear

PERSONALLY YOU CAN STICK YOUR INFRACTION UP YOUR JUMPER AND IF THIS GETS ME ANOTHER INFRACTON STICK THAT ONE UP THERE TOO

as to my being a BNP supporter i am and hope they get in and sort this countries mess out.

OH BY THE WAY ITS CALLED FREEDOM OF SPEECH


I can assure you that Oscar is not even here to make a complaint about you. She left this house at 6 am this morning and will not be back for two days. What time did you recieve your infraction?

In my knowledge Oscar has never complained about a post even one's directed at her that were far worse. She just is not that kind of person. Infact the more insulting they are, the more she will laugh. I can ask her when she phones me but I know her, it's just not something she would do. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and Oscar is the first to stand by that. She would not report you because you have a different opinion. She would punch you not report you if she was offended!

Thanks, Pete

[gmc]

pantoandy;1156366 wrote: and for my column i recived this

You have received an infraction at ForumGarden

Dear pantoandy,

You have received an infraction at ForumGarden.

Reason: No "Offensive" Posts, Links or Images: Please do not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, racist, sexist, discriminatory, or otherwise violative of any local or international laws. This includes links in your signature, profile, bookmarks as well as posted images, photos and avatars. Staff will ultimately decide if something is appropriate or not.

-------

Please remember the limits of this forum regarding racism. Inciting violence against specific people is well beyond those limits.

-------

This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/warfa ... ost1156222

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscar View Post

The fact remains that the muslims in question are British citizens there-fore they have a right to protest and stage a demo providing no-one is assaulted. That is the law. Legally, they were doing nothing wrong. It is no different to me protesting against the thirs run-way or fox hunting.

The returning soldiers are not hero's, don't make that mistake. They volunteered and entered an illegal war based on lie's and corruption.

I wish i had known the venue as i would have been with them.

these scum will never be british citizens they are the enemy within terrorists

traitors and as i said backstabbers to the country that took them in fed them clothed them and gave them money and shelter .

dont you dare insult the indigious british with this clap trap

at the end of the day they have commited treason and should be deported

or prefably hung

All the best,

ForumGarden

__________________

Having the right to an opinion does not make your opinion right.

AAG

it appears that even freedom of speech is gagged on the FG

and oscar didnt like what i wrote so she reported me for an infraction.

yet oscar is quoted as saying if she knew of the venue she would have joined them i replied if you support muslim terrorists you are also a traitor to the crown.

i stick with my original statement and i do not retract my statement that the protesting fanatics are scum they are and i will not retract my statement that they are not british subjects but dangerous foreign terrorists which we let in to our country and keep just for them to plot against us and make bombs killing innocent civilians which is treason yet we still allow them to go about their daily lives spouting their jihad rubbish and that england will be an islamic state and the best bit is they know who they are !!!

why arent they being deported at gatwick or swinging on a rope in pentonville ?

if our troops are no better than hitler they are the equviliant of lord haw haw the best thing was he was hung.

when will you see these dangerous terrorists for what they are after they,ve committed another 911 in london by flying a plane simultaniously into the houses of parliment and number 10 or blown up a shopping mall like harrods or selfridges

DONT SAY IT COULDNT HAPPEN IT COULD!!!by gagging the truth like here on the FG lets you see and hear only what they want you to see and hear

PERSONALLY YOU CAN STICK YOUR INFRACTION UP YOUR JUMPER AND IF THIS GETS ME ANOTHER INFRACTON STICK THAT ONE UP THERE TOO

as to my being a BNP supporter i am and hope they get in and sort this countries mess out.

OH BY THE WAY ITS CALLED FREEDOM OF SPEECH


You deliberately post to provoke a reaction. Your views are offensive to some but I suspect whoever called for the infraction isn't any of those who respond to your posts. It would be a pity if you were silenced and I would appeal to the moderators not to do so-if they are thinking of it. discussion forums are no fun if everybody shares the same opinion or is too polite to disagree or is daft enough to think that disagreement with a point of view is a personal attack. Rant as much as you like. If I call you a pillock it's not personal I am merely stating my disagreement in the robust manner beloved in british political discussion. i assure you if you respond in similar vein I will not lose my self esteem.

I'd never have guessed you were a BNP supporter as you don't quite match the image of a half witted, semi literate neanderthal I would expect.:sneaky:

Joking aside as a tolerant individual not given to extremes of passion I find myself wanting to beat the **** out if these demonstrators. Yes they have a right to protest but this I think was intended to provoke and to be offensive. If you do something to get a reaction you can hardly complain when you get one. For all they live in a society that tolerates their beliefs they also live in the midst of one of the most violent nations on the planet. we're not exactly a nation of pacifists. It would be a pity if their attempt to provoke succeeds as most likely the innocent will be as much a target as anyone else.

I feel the same way about sharia law in the UK as I do about canon law. No way would I tolerate it. Like my forefathers I would probably pick up a weapon if all else failed.

[BTS]

gmc;1156487 wrote: I think they were drag hunting which is not illegal, but the hunt saboteurs follow to make sure they don't go after foxes. but I would have to check.









They have the same linguistic root.













A more interesting question is why have so many americans been taught to denigrate the very principles their nation was supposedly founded on. Give me liberty or give me death is the perennial call to arms cry of the liberal in defence of individual freedom. When someone criticising the actions of his government can be dismissed as a traitorous wishy washy liberal something is perhaps wrong. Liberals and those of a liberal disposition will inherit the earth. sooner or later they prevail


Liberalism, the word is a derivation in some form of the word “liberty”. Liberty is synonymous with freedom, which should include freedom of thought or belief. Today’s liberals don’t think for themselves, and therefore shouldn’t even be allowed to call themselves liberals, because they are bound by the mob mentality. They’re imprisoned by the confines of popularity, believing that if they are in the minority, they’re wrong. Folks, that’s a disease.

[abbey]

gmc;1156644 wrote: You deliberately post to provoke a reaction. Your views are offensive to some but I suspect whoever called for the infraction isn't any of those who respond to your posts. It would be a pity if you were silenced and I would appeal to the moderators not to do so-if they are thinking of it. discussion forums are no fun if everybody shares the same opinion or is too polite to disagree or is daft enough to think that disagreement with a point of view is a personal attack. Rant as much as you like. If I call you a pillock it's not personal I am merely stating my disagreement in the robust manner beloved in british political discussion. i assure you if you respond in similar vein I will not lose my self esteem.



I'd never have guessed you were a BNP supporter as you don't quite match the image of a half witted, semi literate neanderthal I would expect.:sneaky:

at the end of the day they have commited treason and should be deported

or prefably hung

Joking aside as a tolerant individual not given to extremes of passion I find myself wanting to beat the **** out if these demonstrators. Yes they have a right to protest but this I think was intended to provoke and to be offensive. If you do something to get a reaction you can hardly complain when you get one. For all they live in a society that tolerates their beliefs they also live in the midst of one of the most violent nations on the planet. we're not exactly a nation of pacifists. It would be a pity if their attempt to provoke succeeds as most likely the innocent will be as much a target as anyone else.



I feel the same way about sharia law in the UK as I do about canon law. No way would I tolerate it. Like my forefathers I would probably pick up a weapon if all else failed.FG will not tolerate this statement...



At the end of the day they have commited treason and should be deported

or prefably hung

[Bryn Mawr]

pantoandy;1156222 wrote: these scum will never be british citizens they are the enemy within terrorists

traitors and as i said backstabbers to the country that took them in fed them clothed them and gave them money and shelter .

dont you dare insult the indigious british with this clap trap

at the end of the day they have commited treason and should be deported

or prefably hung


Might I ask who you are referring to as the indigenous British? The ex Vikings who left France to better themselves in 1066 or the Vikings who preceded them in the eighth century when thing got rough in Scandinavia or the Germans who took advantage of the power vacuum in the fifth century to extend their territories or the Italians who felt they were better than anyone in the first century or the Kelts who knew a good thing when they saw one a thousand year before that or the Picts who were being pushed out of Europe a thousand years before that or the ..........

[gmc]

abbey;1156658 wrote: FG will not tolerate this statement...


Yet they tolerate calls for the torture and murder of people without trial judged to be criminals or the bombing of iran back to the stone age? Calls for the beating and incarceration of children guilty of some demeanour because after all they need to be punished.

I don't particularly like panto andy's sentiments either. I think he's a bit of a pillock to be honest. But it's nice to be talking to a british poster where you can say something like that without them coming over all precious because you disagree with them. I think it more constructive to argue with him about it. Who knows he might think about some of the sillier things he comes out with and change his mind. He has as much right to free speech as the demonstrators.

It is discussion forum after all and the opinion panto andy expresses is shared by many whether we like it or not. Pretending it isn't gets us nowhere. If these kind of demonstrations become common place opinions will harden in this country towards muslims. I suspect also that the next time there is parade for troops returning home the number turning out to support them will increase and there will be some spoiling for a fight if muslim extremists turn up to protest. It is something we need to talk about.

posted by BTS

Liberalism, the word is a derivation in some form of the word “liberty”. Liberty is synonymous with freedom, which should include freedom of thought or belief. Today’s liberals don’t think for themselves, and therefore shouldn’t even be allowed to call themselves liberals, because they are bound by the mob mentality. They’re imprisoned by the confines of popularity, believing that if they are in the minority, they’re wrong. Folks, that’s a disease.


I'd agree with you there. Liberals are the majority in any democratic society though most don't appreciate they share many of the more important ideals with an ideology they have been brainwashed in to believing is flawed and undemocratic. I'm fairly sure we're not going to agree over this but since we both live in societies where liberal attitudes are the norm we can each respect the other freely expressed opinion. :sneaky:

[abbey]

Panto Andy, walks a very thin line with some of his posts, most of his posts are very thinly veiled.

This post held no guise.



these scum will never be british citizens they are the enemy within terrorists

traitors and as i said backstabbers to the country that took them in fed them clothed them and gave them money and shelter .

dont you dare insult the indigious british with this clap trap

at the end of the day they have commited treason and should be deported

or prefably hung

[Galbally]

Interesting thread.

I didn't know that someone had thrown a pack of British Rashers at the Islamicists off the top of the shopping centre, I have to say I do find that very amusing for some reason. A very British response, we had loads of Irish pork meat that we had to get rid of a few months ago, we should have sent it to Luton. :wah:

I found the comment made by one of the Islamic demonstrators that "luton is a town with a large muslim community" in reference to the fact that the British Army shouldn't therefore march down the Main Street of this British town (presumably because he believes that Luton is not really British any more, but part of the growing Caliphate) very illuminating.

It will be interesting to see whether the militant Islamic groups intend to keep on pressing the buttons of ordinary English people by organizing these provocative demonstrations. My own experience of living in England was that the actual real English people themselves were extraordinarily tolerant, (far more than Irish people over here, we are a much more conservative, homogenous people), but I would imagine that native English and British tolerance has its limits, and given the times that are in it, we may be fast approaching that point.

[pantoandy]

abbey;1156897 wrote: Panto Andy, walks a very thin line with some of his posts, most of his posts are very thinly veiled.

This post held no guise.


i would like to deal with a couple of points

firstly i aplogise most unreservedly to peter lake and oscar it appears i was barking up the wrong tree.

secondly abbeys comment as quoted

these scum will never be british citizens they are the enemy within terrorists

traitors and as i said backstabbers to the country that took them in fed them clothed them and gave them money and shelter .

dont you dare insult the indigious british with this clap trap

at the end of the day they have commited treason and should be deported

or prefably hung.

it appears this is what i recieved the infraction for because certain members didnt like my comment.

if i reported everyone who sent me a bad reply back half the FG would be on infractions

i believe i broke no FG rule only walking a thin line and i would request the mods remove this infraction as it is unfair and politcally correct gagging.

i cannot understand abbey how you can side with traitors who accept shelter and money and then hurl racist abuse at us and try and kill our innocent citizens in the name of jhad.

these and our own home grown dangerous nutters need weeding out execute them as a warning to others that terrorism will not be tolerated

as to being a lunkheaded bnp supporter there are some very intelegent professional people that are members of the bnp

[spot]

Perhaps if you were to read again the terms and conditions you signed up to when you registered, Andy? That would help remove all these misunderstandings.

[BTS]

abbey;1156897 wrote: Panto Andy, walks a very thin line with some of his posts, most of his posts are very thinly veiled.

This post held no guise.


Good to see you doing your yob...........

Now can I get some relief on my complaint I sent to administration?

Thanks in advance

[Snowfire]

Andy, you seem to me to have the same sort of raging anger and extreme viewpoint as the fanatics you oppose. We dont, thankfully, execute people in this country. Its been a while since we discarded that form of retribution.

Intelligent people in the BNP may be a possibility I'll struggle with but grudgingly accept but it doesnt stop them from being delusional. Most of them however dont have two brain cells to rub together.

Before you burst another blood vessel, I dislike intensely those Muslim fanatics howling abuse at our soldiers but the fact we allow it is what makes us "civilised" and sets us apart from those who hold such abhorrent views

[gmc]

pantoandy;1157006 wrote: i would like to deal with a couple of points

firstly i aplogise most unreservedly to peter lake and oscar it appears i was barking up the wrong tree.

secondly abbeys comment as quoted

these scum will never be british citizens they are the enemy within terrorists

traitors and as i said backstabbers to the country that took them in fed them clothed them and gave them money and shelter .

dont you dare insult the indigious british with this clap trap

at the end of the day they have commited treason and should be deported

or prefably hung.

it appears this is what i recieved the infraction for because certain members didnt like my comment.

if i reported everyone who sent me a bad reply back half the FG would be on infractions

i believe i broke no FG rule only walking a thin line and i would request the mods remove this infraction as it is unfair and politcally correct gagging.

i cannot understand abbey how you can side with traitors who accept shelter and money and then hurl racist abuse at us and try and kill our innocent citizens in the name of jhad.

these and our own home grown dangerous nutters need weeding out execute them as a warning to others that terrorism will not be tolerated




Indigenous British, what exactly is that? Maybe we should deport everybody that is nor red haired and blue eyed or maybe just anyone who is not blue eyed at least that we we would get all the non celts amongst us. While we're at it lets get rid of our kraut queen and her immigrant refugee husband. This country rejected the nazi party and it's daft ideologies wholesale-at least the ordinary people did. Why should we put up with them now.

as to being a lunkheaded bnp supporter there are some very intelegent professional people that are members of the bnp


There were some very intelligent people in the nazi party and with stalin as well come to that. You can be intelligent, educated and still be an idiot and wrong.

[OpenMind]

Galbally;1156900 wrote: Interesting thread.



I didn't know that someone had thrown a pack of British Rashers at the Islamicists off the top of the shopping centre, I have to say I do find that very amusing for some reason. A very British response, we had loads of Irish pork meat that we had to get rid of a few months ago, we should have sent it to Luton. :wah:



I found the comment made by one of the Islamic demonstrators that "luton is a town with a large muslim community" in reference to the fact that the British Army shouldn't therefore march down the Main Street of this British town (presumably because he believes that Luton is not really British any more, but part of the growing Caliphate) very illuminating.



It will be interesting to see whether the militant Islamic groups intend to keep on pressing the buttons of ordinary English people by organizing these provocative demonstrations. My own experience of living in England was that the actual real English people themselves were extraordinarily tolerant, (far more than Irish people over here, we are a much more conservative, homogenous people), but I would imagine that native English and British tolerance has its limits, and given the times that are in it, we may be fast approaching that point.


The Muslim community in Luton is mainly focussed in an area called Bury Park. It is about a mile + from the town centre where this fracas occurred. They have a continuous running battle with the West Indians and Carribeans who tend to live in and around this area also. On the other hand, the Irish community is far more predominant in Luton and spread throughout it. Most of the pubs in Luton are Irish dominated including the one shown in one of the photos in the Mail's report.

The police prevented those nearby from attacking the very few demonstrators. It was probably the easier and safer course. While the other Muslims may not have agreed with their remonstrating 'cousins', they close ranks very quickly and protect their own. A reaction, possibly, from the racist hatred they have received over the years.

According to the news reports I read, there were no actual racist comments made, but the demonstration was clearly meant to provoke anger and hostilities. It's the kind of behaviour I would only expect from school children or uneducated people.

There is a lot of racial hatred in Luton. The event could have very quickly turned into a major battle zone. A lot of innocent people on both sides of the 'fence' would have been seriously injured if not killed. I think that while it seems that the demonstrators were being protected by the police, the police did the right thing to prevent a situation that would have been out of their control.

I lived in Luton between 1979 and finally managed to move out in 1998. I was not sorry to leave that godforsaken town.

[Bryn Mawr]

BTS;1157015 wrote: Good to see you doing your yob...........

Now can I get some relief on my complaint I sent to administration?

Thanks in advance


Had the Mods received a complaint it would have been dealt with and you would have received an acknowledgement. Would you care to try again and see if you can get through?

If, on the other hand, you sent it directly to Tombstone then it is for him to deal with.

[abbey]

pantoandy;1157006 wrote: i would like to deal with a couple of points

firstly i aplogise most unreservedly to peter lake and oscar it appears i was barking up the wrong tree.

secondly abbeys comment as quoted

these scum will never be british citizens they are the enemy within terrorists

traitors and as i said backstabbers to the country that took them in fed them clothed them and gave them money and shelter .

dont you dare insult the indigious british with this clap trap

at the end of the day they have commited treason and should be deported

or prefably hung.



it appears this is what i recieved the infraction for because certain members didnt like my comment.

if i reported everyone who sent me a bad reply back half the FG would be on infractions

i believe i broke no FG rule only walking a thin line and i would request the mods remove this infraction as it is unfair and politcally correct gagging.

i cannot understand abbey how you can side with traitors who accept shelter and money and then hurl racist abuse at us and try and kill our innocent citizens in the name of jhad.

these and our own home grown dangerous nutters need weeding out execute them as a warning to others that terrorism will not be tolerated

as to being a lunkheaded bnp supporter there are some very intelegent professional people that are members of the bnp
ForumGarden General Rules

http://www.forumgarden.com/index.php?page=rules

[Oscar Namechange]

pantoandy;1157006 wrote: i would like to deal with a couple of points

firstly i aplogise most unreservedly to peter lake and oscar it appears i was barking up the wrong tree.




No problem Andy

[Galbally]

OpenMind;1157025 wrote: The Muslim community in Luton is mainly focussed in an area called Bury Park. It is about a mile + from the town centre where this fracas occurred. They have a continuous running battle with the West Indians and Carribeans who tend to live in and around this area also. On the other hand, the Irish community is far more predominant in Luton and spread throughout it. Most of the pubs in Luton are Irish dominated including the one shown in one of the photos in the Mail's report.

The police prevented those nearby from attacking the very few demonstrators. It was probably the easier and safer course. While the other Muslims may not have agreed with their remonstrating 'cousins', they close ranks very quickly and protect their own. A reaction, possibly, from the racist hatred they have received over the years.

According to the news reports I read, there were no actual racist comments made, but the demonstration was clearly meant to provoke anger and hostilities. It's the kind of behaviour I would only expect from school children or uneducated people.

There is a lot of racial hatred in Luton. The event could have very quickly turned into a major battle zone. A lot of innocent people on both sides of the 'fence' would have been seriously injured if not killed. I think that while it seems that the demonstrators were being protected by the police, the police did the right thing to prevent a situation that would have been out of their control.

I lived in Luton between 1979 and finally managed to move out in 1998. I was not sorry to leave that godforsaken town.


I think it might be interesting for people living in large English towns and cities to start reading about the real history of Northern Ireland, between 1660 and 2000 and see what happens when religiously and enthnically polarized communities grow up in seperate sphere's of existence, and thats just two white, Christian denominations and people who are only divided by being ethnically lowland Scots and Irish. Of course that hasn't prevented 350 years of bloodshed and mayhem.

It's something that makes me think that these problems that England has been storing up for itself over the decades through relentless non-European immigration, and the seeming determination to ignore the social and cultural consequences at all costs, are going to get worse and worse, I don't actually know what the answer is really, its a kinda pandora's box situation. Its also something that is very hard to talk about without being attacked for being racist or xenophobic, which says a lot about the taboo nature of the subject.

And we all know that taboo's tend to be things that people feel so uncomfortable talking about, that they just invent reasons why they can't be talked about.

In Ireland we tend to say its just payback time for the British Empire, you took their countries from them, now they are going to take your country from you, maybe thats uncharitable, but then again you can hardly expect much sympathy from us.

[OpenMind]

I like to remind people that England has a history of immigration. In general, this has never been a problem and people integrated until last century. Since then, the different immigrants have segregated according to kind. Government policies have caused this country to breed racism within itself.

[Galbally]

OpenMind;1157424 wrote: I like to remind people that England has a history of immigration. In general, this has never been a problem and people integrated until last century. Since then, the different immigrants have segregated according to kind. Government policies have caused this country to breed racism within itself.


Its true that England does have a history of inward immigration over centuries, like I said, it has a lot less homogenous population already, and a history of tolerance, hopefully over time these new ethnic and religious communities will also be absorbed into Englishness. Time will tell, I tend to be pessimistic, but I have an Irish perspective on such things and we tend to be quite conservative as we are a race of bloody-minded, never-give-in, fight-you-over-a-stone, Island-based Celts, you know how it is.

[kazalala]

OpenMind;1157424 wrote: I like to remind people that England has a history of immigration. In general, this has never been a problem and people integrated until last century. Since then, the different immigrants have segregated according to kind. Government policies have caused this country to breed racism within itself.


oh yes.

[spot]

Galbally;1157422 wrote: I don't actually know what the answer is really, its a kinda pandora's box situation. Its also something that is very hard to talk about without being attacked for being racist or xenophobic, which says a lot about the taboo nature of the subject.
I speak from a position of total ignorance here but you're in a perfect position to set me straight.

If you're a Proddie and you meet someone, can you tell whether they're Papist by the shape of their head or the colour of their eyes or whether they have a Roman nose? And vice versa? Don't mistake me, I'm not being funny and I honestly don't know what the answer is, maybe you can and maybe you can't. I'm not talking about dress, I'm not talking about accent, I'm talking about looks.

Because.

It seems to me that the result of births out of wedlock and such (since there were few mixed marriages, that's the only reason I mention wedlock), where you can't tell by looking, can naturally become as bigoted as the family they grow up with. That, I'm assuming, would be the Irish position (and yes, I know there were far fewer births out of wedlock and such back in the old days).

The attraction of how things are going in England is that a significant proportion of children don't have that problem, they can easily see they have a mixed heritage just by using a mirror. So can their mates. I think that fundamentally changes the equation. Simply by exchanging body fluids the English are solving the temporary problem of assimilating the current wave of immigration.

As to fixing fundamentalist antagonism instead of racial abuse, I'm working on it. There are precious few fundamentalist Christians descended from the Indian Subcontinent though, and not a lot of fundamentalist Muslims descended from Anglo-Saxon roots. A century or two of teenage rebellion will have an effect there as well.

[OpenMind]

Galbally;1157426 wrote: Its true that England does have a history of inward immigration over centuries, like I said, it has a lot less homogenous population already, and a history of tolerance, hopefully over time these new ethnic and religious communities will also be absorbed into Englishness. Time will tell, I tend to be pessimistic, but I have an Irish perspective on such things and we tend to be quite conservative as we are a race of bloody-minded, never-give-in, fight-you-over-a-stone, Island-based Celts, you know how it is.


Oh I know exactly what you mean. I know that at least I could say what I thought to an Irishman and as long as I didn't insult his mother or his heritage or his religion, we could blaze a row at each other and come out laughing, and quite drunk too. I've had many a heated philosophical debate in this way in Luton.:wah:

[OpenMind]

spot;1157439 wrote: I speak from a position of total ignorance here but you're in a perfect position to set me straight.



If you're a Proddie and you meet someone, can you tell whether they're Papist by the shape of their head or the colour of their eyes or whether they have a Roman nose? And vice versa? Don't mistake me, I'm not being funny and I honestly don't know what the answer is, maybe you can and maybe you can't. I'm not talking about dress, I'm not talking about accent, I'm talking about looks.



Because.



It seems to me that the result of births out of wedlock and such (since there were few mixed marriages, that's the only reason I mention wedlock), where you can't tell by looking, can naturally become as bigoted as the family they grow up with. That, I'm assuming, would be the Irish position (and yes, I know there were far fewer births out of wedlock and such back in the old days).



The attraction of how things are going in England is that a significant proportion of children don't have that problem, they can easily see they have a mixed heritage just by using a mirror. So can their mates. I think that fundamentally changes the equation. Simply by exchanging body fluids the English are solving the temporary problem of assimilating the current wave of immigration.



As to fixing fundamentalist antagonism instead of racial abuse, I'm working on it. There are precious few fundamentalist Christians descended from the Indian Subcontinent though, and not a lot of fundamentalist Muslims descended from Anglo-Saxon roots. A century or two of teenage rebellion will have an effect there as well.


'Pon my soul, Spot, I'm going to have to say that I tend to agree with you here.

Thank God for the peace and love flower power generation too.

[Chezzie]

Makes me wonder what would happen to any Brit protesters who decided to go over to a Muslim country and protest at the lack of their women's rights ect....I reckon it wouldn't be seen as freedom of speech and more likely they would get arrested.

[OpenMind]

Chezzie;1157465 wrote: Makes me wonder what would happen to any Brit protesters who decided to go over to a Muslim country and protest at the lack of their women's rights ect....I reckon it wouldn't be seen as freedom of speech and more likely they would get arrested.


Not before a good thumping and stamping on while their police wait until it's safe to go in and pull you out.

[G#Gill]

Just a word to Oscar - those returning soldiers were not volunteers ! They are conscripts and they go and do what they are ordered to do, and they have no choice unless they want to be arrested for AWOL. They were sent to Afghanistan and Iraq, they did a job that they were ordered to do, under very dangerous and difficult conditions. They returned, and they were welcomed back by the British as heros!

I cannot see what the argument is about.

Those muslim demonstrators were totally out-of-order. I wonder what would have happened if the same situation had arisen in Afghanistan, or Iraq. Can you imagine the situation in Bahgdad if returning Iraqi soldiers were demonstrated against by a mob of British inhabitants waving anti-Iraqi slogans !!!!!

[OpenMind]

G#Gill;1157476 wrote: Just a word to Oscar - those returning soldiers were not volunteers ! They are conscripts and they go and do what they are ordered to do, and they have no choice unless they want to be arrested for AWOL. They were sent to Afghanistan and Iraq, they did a job that they were ordered to do, under very dangerous and difficult conditions. They returned, and they were welcomed back by the British as heros!

I cannot see what the argument is about.



Those muslim demonstrators were totally out-of-order. I wonder what would have happened if the same situation had arisen in Afghanistan, or Iraq. Can you imagine the situation in Bahgdad if returning Iraqi soldiers were demonstrated against by a mob of British inhabitants waving anti-Iraqi slogans !!!!!


With all due respect, Gill, they voluntarily signed up. No one forced them to do that and we don't exercise conscription in the UK at the moment. Once in, they know full well that they have to follow orders.

[spot]

Chezzie;1157465 wrote: Makes me wonder what would happen to any Brit protesters who decided to go over to a Muslim country and protest at the lack of their women's rights ect....I reckon it wouldn't be seen as freedom of speech and more likely they would get arrested.


The protesters in Luton are British citizens, Chezzie. That's the difference between your question and the circumstances we're discussing.

[Chezzie]

spot;1157489 wrote: The protesters in Luton are British citizens, Chezzie. That's the difference between your question and the circumstances we're discussing.


British citizens living as if they were in a Muslim country! Live here and respect us I say. Still have your religion and live your life as you please but dont expect me to praise their actions towards our soldiers.

I am so proud of all our service men and women. Its a disgrace in what the demonstrators were allowed to do. I am also so proud of my cousin Sean who served in Iraq.