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BabyRider
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Post by BabyRider »

WHAT SENATOR JOHN GLENN SAID:



Things that make you think a little........



1. There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during January.... In the

fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's

just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of

Iraq.



2. When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state

the following:



a. FDR...led us into World War II.

b. Germany never attacked us: Japan did.

From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per

year.

c. Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea. North Korea

never attacked us.

From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per

year.

d. John F. Kennedy. ..started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam

never attacked us.

e. Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire.

From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per

year.

f. Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent.

Bosnia never attacked us.

He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by

Sudan and did nothing Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

g. In the years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has

liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put

nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot,

and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.



The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...It

took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch

Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.



We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time

than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.



It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy

the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police

after his Oldsmobile sank at Chapaquiddick



It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in

Florida!!!!



Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military morale is high!

The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts.



But Wait, there's more......................



JOHN GLENN (ON THE SENATE FLOOR)

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13



Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they do

for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard

Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu

speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation of why men

and women in the armed services do what they do for a living.



This IS a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never served

think of the military.



Senator Metzenbaum (speaking to Senator Glenn): "How can you run for Senate

when you've never held a real job?"

Senator Glenn (D-Ohio): "I served 23 years in the United States Marine

Corps. I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by

anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program.

It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a

nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts to

the bank."



"I ask you to go with me ... as I went the other day... to a veteran's

hospital and look those men - with their mangled bodies - in the eye, and

tell THEM they didn't hold a job! You go with me to the Space Program at

NASA and go, as I have gone, to the widows and Orphans of Ed White, Gus

Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and you look those kids in the eye and tell

them that their DADS didn't hold a job. You go with me on Memorial Day and

you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends buried

than I'd like to remember, and you watch those waving flags.



You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME that

those people didn't have a job? I'll tell you, Howard Metzenbaum; you

should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that there were

some men - SOME MEN - who held REAL jobs. And they required a dedication

to a purpose - and a love of country and a dedication to duty - that was

more important than life itself. And their self-sacrifice is what made this

country possible. I HAVE held a job, Howard! What about you?"



For those who don't remember - During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an

attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA. Now he's a Senator!





If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English

thank a Veteran.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]










Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.




Jives
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Post by Jives »

BabyRider wrote: If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English

thank a Veteran.


You're very welcome...on both counts. I did it for you.

...and I'd do it again.

Sincerely,

1Lt. Jonathan St. Ives USAFR

Lead Teacher

Transition Academy
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
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BabyRider
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Post by BabyRider »

Jives...Can you tell I'm a TAD fed up with all the B.S. about how wrong the U.S. and G.W. are? Just couldn't take it anymore!!!



Thanks you Jives, and all the other vets (and teachers!) out there... :yh_clap :yh_flag



LC, this is for you, too!
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]










Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.




Jives
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Post by Jives »

You know there's a lot more to your post there than meets the eye, BR.

A lot of kids these days say they are going into the military. When I ask them why, they respond:

"I want a college education"

" It would be cool to fire machine guns"

"I want the technical training so I can get a good job when I get out."

I always remind them that when you volunteer for military service....you are volunteering to give your life for your country. You always hope it won't come to that, and you try your best to make sure it doesn't, but if you are ordered to charge a machine gun nest, you HAVE to do it.

You must ask yourself first, "Do I love America, and all that we stand for, enough to give up the single most precious, irreplaceable thing in my possession for it.....my life?"

I've been all over the planet, many many countries. And I can honestly say that I've never seen anything as great as America. Many times I came within seconds of being killed while serving.

I never ONCE questioned my motives.

We are the greatest nation that ever graced the face of the Earth, I'd die to keep us going.

Just what makes us great?

When compared to other nations, the United States is just a baby. But in her brief 220 years of independence, she has done more to advance the world's health, wealth, and freedom than all other nations in world history combined. Every one of the so called "great" empires of history was built on invasion and sustained by tyranny. Oh sure, each kingdom contributed philosophically and culturally to other nations, but only as they conquered them! And all such "contributions" stemmed from a single motivation: to bring glory to their empire and to their emperor.*

The United States, on the other hand, will never be called an empire, for she has no emperor. And she will never be called a kingdom, for she has no king. From the beginning, America has always been governed by her people, not a family or a bloodline or an aristocracy, but a people-- a people united, yet as diverse as there are countries of the world.*



In the United States, it is the people who rule; the people elect and the people reject; the people choose and the people remove. All power is given to the people. The people, in turn, loan it to those whom they elect as leaders. They evaluate them for a few years, then decide whether they want to keep them as leaders.*

In past empires, the royals ruled and the peasants worked; the rich got richer and the poor got poorer; kings got fat and people starved. But in America, there is no royalty and there are no peasants; the rich get rich by earning it, and the poor have a chance to do the same; there is no king .

When people are allowed to work as much or as little as they want; when they are allowed to strive for as much or as little wealth as they want; when they are allowed to think and speak freely, supporting or objecting to their leaders as they see fit, they are free. America does not make people poor or homeless or ignorant or depressed. She just gives them the right to fail. America does not make people powerful or rich or famous or happy. She just gives them the opportunity to succeed.*



But the United States is more than just a great nation, she is a good nation. Americans do not just provide for themselves, they provide for all people everywhere. For over a century, Americans have blessed the world by leading the way in education, invention, industry, law, medicine, exploration, business, and agriculture. As a people, we have fed the hungry, clothed the naked, employed the poor, welcomed the outsider, educated the ignorant, housed the refugee, defended the weak, and provided for the helpless. And why have we done all these things? So that we may make a name for ourselves? Never! We have always done these things because we have felt that it was our duty as a free people to help those who are less fortunate.*

What makes America great? Her freedom. What makes America good? Her people. When good people are given great freedom, they don't hoard -- they give. America will never turn her back on the world because her people are too good. America will never be mediocre because her freedoms are so great.*

Americans enjoy liberty best when they show charity most. Liberty and charity. Greatness and goodness. In the end, these are the things that really matter; these are the marks of a great nation.*
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Jives
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Post by Jives »

let me list a few things for you:

During the twentieth century America....

1. Invented the concept of mass production - Henry Ford.

2. Invented the Airplane and flight - The Wright Brothers

3. Reshaped world politics and power - WWI and WWII.

4. Invented Atomic power - Oppenheimer and Einstein

5. Mapped the Human DNA molecule.

6. Perfected manned space flight with Space Shuttles and walked on the Moon - probably the single greatest achievement in human history.

7. Electrified the world and gave mankind the night- Thomas Edison

8. Invented the telephone - Alexander Graham Bell

9. Broke the sound barrier - Chuck Yeager

and, of course,

10. Invented and mass produced both the home computer and the internet itself - Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Without which we couldn't have this thread.

Think about it, all this happened in one century in one country.

No doubt about it, the 20th Century belonged to America in any history book that has been written or ever will be written. We are the greatest country to ever grace the face of the planet, and I believe it will be a long, long time before there is another to rival us. Centuries, perhaps millenia.

People and other governments try to trivialize our accomplishments and nitpick details, but that's to be expected. Rome, Greece, Egypt, and even England in her heyday, all had their share of naysayers and critics. Those people and countries can be safely forgotten in the mists of time.

The true measure, of course, will be the verdict of history, of which I'm supremely confident will write us down as a pivotal point in human history in many, many ways.

So.....of course we are patriotic, and rightly, most righteously so!
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
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BabyRider
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Post by BabyRider »

Thank you for adding so eloquently to the message I was trying to send, Jives.

:yh_flag
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]










Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.




lady cop
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Post by lady cop »

Thankyou Babyrider for including me as a LEO, but i would like to note here that my Dad was one of Oppenheimer's people, in a major capacity,and went on to design reactor vessels for nuclear submarines, as well as many other notable accomplishments for which our government honored him....... and my Uncle, his brother, was instrumental in putting up those manned space flights. i am very proud of them on many levels. they WERE of the GREATEST GENERATION.
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BabyRider
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Post by BabyRider »

LC, IMHO, anyone who puts on a uniform to defend the people in this country deserves acknowledgement. And it comes far too seldom. I was reading another thread here, people griping about our troops, and I've had ENOUGH!

You should be proud of your family's accomplishments! :yh_clap :yh_flag
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]










Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.




kensloft
Posts: 2793
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:37 am

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Post by kensloft »

BabyRider wrote: WHAT SENATOR JOHN GLENN SAID:



Things that make you think a little........



1. There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during January.... In the

fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's

just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of

Iraq.



2. When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state

the following:



a. FDR...led us into World War II.

b. Germany never attacked us: Japan did.

From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per

year.

c. Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea. North Korea

never attacked us.

From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per

year.

d. John F. Kennedy. ..started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam

never attacked us.

e. Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire.

From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per

year.

f. Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent.

Bosnia never attacked us.

He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by

Sudan and did nothing Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

g. In the years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has

liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put

nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot,

and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.



The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...It

took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch

Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.



We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time

than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.



It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy

the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police

after his Oldsmobile sank at Chapaquiddick



It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in

Florida!!!!



Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military morale is high!

The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts.



But Wait, there's more......................



JOHN GLENN (ON THE SENATE FLOOR)

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13



Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they do

for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard

Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu

speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation of why men

and women in the armed services do what they do for a living.



This IS a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never served

think of the military.



Senator Metzenbaum (speaking to Senator Glenn): "How can you run for Senate

when you've never held a real job?"

Senator Glenn (D-Ohio): "I served 23 years in the United States Marine

Corps. I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by

anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program.

It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a

nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts to

the bank."



"I ask you to go with me ... as I went the other day... to a veteran's

hospital and look those men - with their mangled bodies - in the eye, and

tell THEM they didn't hold a job! You go with me to the Space Program at

NASA and go, as I have gone, to the widows and Orphans of Ed White, Gus

Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and you look those kids in the eye and tell

them that their DADS didn't hold a job. You go with me on Memorial Day and

you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends buried

than I'd like to remember, and you watch those waving flags.



You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME that

those people didn't have a job? I'll tell you, Howard Metzenbaum; you

should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that there were

some men - SOME MEN - who held REAL jobs. And they required a dedication

to a purpose - and a love of country and a dedication to duty - that was

more important than life itself. And their self-sacrifice is what made this

country possible. I HAVE held a job, Howard! What about you?"



For those who don't remember - During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an

attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA. Now he's a Senator!





If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English

thank a Veteran.
:yh_worshp :yh_worshp :yh_worshp
kensloft
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Post by kensloft »

Jives wrote: You know there's a lot more to your post there than meets the eye, BR.

A lot of kids these days say they are going into the military. When I ask them why, they respond:

"I want a college education"

" It would be cool to fire machine guns"

"I want the technical training so I can get a good job when I get out."

I always remind them that when you volunteer for military service....you are volunteering to give your life for your country. You always hope it won't come to that, and you try your best to make sure it doesn't, but if you are ordered to charge a machine gun nest, you HAVE to do it.

You must ask yourself first, "Do I love America, and all that we stand for, enough to give up the single most precious, irreplaceable thing in my possession for it.....my life?"

I've been all over the planet, many many countries. And I can honestly say that I've never seen anything as great as America. Many times I came within seconds of being killed while serving.

I never ONCE questioned my motives.

We are the greatest nation that ever graced the face of the Earth, I'd die to keep us going.

Just what makes us great?

When compared to other nations, the United States is just a baby. But in her brief 220 years of independence, she has done more to advance the world's health, wealth, and freedom than all other nations in world history combined. Every one of the so called "great" empires of history was built on invasion and sustained by tyranny. Oh sure, each kingdom contributed philosophically and culturally to other nations, but only as they conquered them! And all such "contributions" stemmed from a single motivation: to bring glory to their empire and to their emperor.*

The United States, on the other hand, will never be called an empire, for she has no emperor. And she will never be called a kingdom, for she has no king. From the beginning, America has always been governed by her people, not a family or a bloodline or an aristocracy, but a people-- a people united, yet as diverse as there are countries of the world.*



In the United States, it is the people who rule; the people elect and the people reject; the people choose and the people remove. All power is given to the people. The people, in turn, loan it to those whom they elect as leaders. They evaluate them for a few years, then decide whether they want to keep them as leaders.*

In past empires, the royals ruled and the peasants worked; the rich got richer and the poor got poorer; kings got fat and people starved. But in America, there is no royalty and there are no peasants; the rich get rich by earning it, and the poor have a chance to do the same; there is no king .

When people are allowed to work as much or as little as they want; when they are allowed to strive for as much or as little wealth as they want; when they are allowed to think and speak freely, supporting or objecting to their leaders as they see fit, they are free. America does not make people poor or homeless or ignorant or depressed. She just gives them the right to fail. America does not make people powerful or rich or famous or happy. She just gives them the opportunity to succeed.*



But the United States is more than just a great nation, she is a good nation. Americans do not just provide for themselves, they provide for all people everywhere. For over a century, Americans have blessed the world by leading the way in education, invention, industry, law, medicine, exploration, business, and agriculture. As a people, we have fed the hungry, clothed the naked, employed the poor, welcomed the outsider, educated the ignorant, housed the refugee, defended the weak, and provided for the helpless. And why have we done all these things? So that we may make a name for ourselves? Never! We have always done these things because we have felt that it was our duty as a free people to help those who are less fortunate.*

What makes America great? Her freedom. What makes America good? Her people. When good people are given great freedom, they don't hoard -- they give. America will never turn her back on the world because her people are too good. America will never be mediocre because her freedoms are so great.*

Americans enjoy liberty best when they show charity most. Liberty and charity. Greatness and goodness. In the end, these are the things that really matter; these are the marks of a great nation.*


Sounds an awful lot like Canada.
kensloft
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Post by kensloft »

lady cop wrote: Thankyou Babyrider for including me as a LEO, but i would like to note here that my Dad was one of Oppenheimer's people, in a major capacity,and went on to design reactor vessels for nuclear submarines, as well as many other notable accomplishments for which our government honored him....... and my Uncle, his brother, was instrumental in putting up those manned space flights. i am very proud of them on many levels. they WERE of the GREATEST GENERATION.
Saved me from having to tell them.
kensloft
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Post by kensloft »

BabyRider wrote: LC, IMHO, anyone who puts on a uniform to defend the people in this country deserves acknowledgement. And it comes far too seldom. I was reading another thread here, people griping about our troops, and I've had ENOUGH!

You should be proud of your family's accomplishments!
You should be proud of this thread! :yh_worshp :yh_hugs :yh_worshp
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Post by Jives »

Darn straight, Kensloft! That's why we like you guys so much!

BTW, I grew up in Havre, Montana just 20 miles from the Saskatchewan border. I know and love your country and people very much too.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
kensloft
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Post by kensloft »

Jives wrote: Darn straight, Kensloft! That's why we like you guys so much!

BTW, I grew up in Havre, Montana just 20 miles from the Saskatchewan border. I know and love your country and people very much too.
You must have. You even know how to spell it correctly and that is the mark of more than a mere teacher. Still tryin' to figure out what the Sas Kat wanted to chew on?
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Post by valerie »

Thank you for bringing this up, BR, I think it's very important.



Some gave all, all gave some. (Billy Ray Cyrus)



I try to conduct my life day to day with thinking of our vetereans. I

owe them so much. My father, a Marine on Iwo Jima and in the Pacific

Theater.



And I wish people would THINK more about that greatest generation.



Just this morning, coming back from my walk, on a busy street here

in my city (2 lanes each way, left hand turns and side streets) I

saw a couple waiting to cross, and they were going to have a long wait.

I saw them from quite a ways away, I recognized the lady from her

red car coat she always wears. I have seen them over the years,

and then just her for awhile, and I thought she was widowed. Imagine

my delight when I saw her husband with her this morning. With a cane,

yes, but still doing his best to stand straight and tall with military

bearing. I couldn't take it any more, so I stepped out at a slight break

in traffic and started waving people down. When I got all the cars

stopped, I told them to come on across. They did, with smiles on their

faces. I said something about wishing the cars would stop for US...

it's the law, fer cryin' out loud. Then as they were almost across, I

sort of patted the man on the shoulder and told them both to have a

nice day. They thanked me, but I could tell they wanted to believe it

was just for me saying have a nice day, but they really meant for

stopping all the traffic. I wish to heck I could do it every damn day,

they both deserve it. Stupid commuters in too much of a hurry to

stop for people like that. People who probably the highlight of their

day is to take a short walk to the donut shop for a donut and coffee.



Whew. Sorry, didn't mean to threadjack, but it does get my goat.



:yh_flag
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Post by Peg »

My dad was in the Air Force, but growing up, he never mentioned it much. If he did, it was about the places he had been. I thought the military was very exotic. I wish when I were younger, I had understood what it is really all about. Working with veterans, a majority of WWII vets, it has given me a new appreciation of what our military goes through, has been through, and the lasting effects on some.
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Post by greydeadhead »

My uncle was at every major conflict from Normandy on thru Berlin.. then went to Japan as part of the rebuilding force there. Another uncle was at Chosin in Korea, 3 cousins in Nam, 2 came back, myself.. 4 years floating, flying and sinking in the USN, authorized to wear 2+ rows on my chest.. my daugher enlisted in the ANG and leaves for boot camp 3 days after graduation... nuff said..
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A Karenina
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Post by A Karenina »

Jives wrote: A lot of kids these days say they are going into the military. When I ask them why, they respond:



"I want a college education"

" It would be cool to fire machine guns"

"I want the technical training so I can get a good job when I get out."



I always remind them that when you volunteer for military service....you are volunteering to give your life for your country. You always hope it won't come to that, and you try your best to make sure it doesn't, but if you are ordered to charge a machine gun nest, you HAVE to do it.



You must ask yourself first, "Do I love America, and all that we stand for, enough to give up the single most precious, irreplaceable thing in my possession for it.....my life?"
Wow! Well put! My son has been talking for almost 2 years about joining the military. We've talked about this endlessly...first, I asked him to wait, for lots of reasons. Lately, he's shown a maturity that does me proud.



This is precisely what I said to him. Would you die for this, John? Would you give your legs, your health, your mobility? You don't know what will be asked of you. Don't sign those papers unless you are ready to offer all of you.



So he waited, thought long and hard, and finally signed up. He'll be a field medic, for reasons of his own. He's leaving Labor Day weekend for boot camp. I feel really good about his decision because I know he's thought deeply about it, what it means, and what the consequences might be (as well as anyone could).



It was kind of funny...when he told me he was signing up a few months ago, I was pushing him in a way I rarely push. I wanted to know the motivation. He finally told me very softly, "Patriotism, Momma. I love my country." And that was that. I gave him a huge bear hug and told him how proud of him I am. I wouldn't offer up my son for anything...but since he has chosen to offer himself up and for the best reasons, I can live with it. And be proud.



Jives, I hope your message is heard by all the kids you come into contact with.



BR, love ya.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.

Aristotle
Jives
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Post by Jives »

A Karenina wrote: I wanted to know the motivation. He finally told me very softly, "Patriotism, Momma. I love my country." And that was that. I gave him a huge bear hug and told him how proud of him I am. I wouldn't offer up my son for anything...but since he has chosen to offer himself up and for the best reasons, I can live with it. And be proud.


Outstanding, absolutely outstanding.

(Jives wipes a tear from the corner of his eye)
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
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Post by A Karenina »

Jives wrote: (Jives wipes a tear from the corner of his eye)
Stop that...it's contagious...(wiping my own eyes).



He's a wonderful person, though I guess all parents say that. :)
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.

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Post by gmc »

posted by baby rider

LC, IMHO, anyone who puts on a uniform to defend the people in this country deserves acknowledgement. And it comes far too seldom. I was reading another thread here, people griping about our troops, and I've had ENOUGH!




I haven't seen anybody griping about the troops. The issue is what they are being asked to do, is it the right thing or not and will, it work?

In the UK the anti war sentiment hasn't gone away many still don't like being lied to by the government, That is not to stay they don't support the troops the beef is with the government.the next election should be interesting. Just because someone opposes the war in Iraq does not mean you are anti military, far from it. Maybe you should ask what are they dying for, is it for what you think it is ir is it to preserve the vested interests of the group in power.

. Invented the concept of mass production - Henry Ford.

2. Invented the Airplane and flight - The Wright Brothers

3. Reshaped world politics and power - WWI and WWII.

4. Invented Atomic power - Oppenheimer and Einstein

5. Mapped the Human DNA molecule.

6. Perfected manned space flight with Space Shuttles and walked on the Moon - probably the single greatest achievement in human history.

7. Electrified the world and gave mankind the night- Thomas Edison

8. Invented the telephone - Alexander Graham Bell

9. Broke the sound barrier - Chuck Yeager

and, of course,

10. Invented and mass produced both the home computer and the internet itself - Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Without which we couldn't have this thread.


Can't resist this one

1) Industrial revolution and mass production started in Britain, initialy textiles but also armaments, pottery etc, all Henry Ford did was adapt existing ideas, have a look at the history of the Springsield Armoury if you want a US equivalent. Even the Romans mass produced glass and pottery.

2) They were given undue credit, the real key was the development of a lightweigt engine-The real hero is the guiy that designed the engine-engineers never get the credit they deserve. By the way who invented the internal combustion engine?

3) OH yeah and the rest of the world was doing what? Just remember where your ideas about democracy and republics came from, hardly a unique american idea. Luckily the British also invented aircraft carriers, steam catapults, gave you the secrets of radar without which things might have been a bit harder. Incidentally we also kept fighting Hitler when no one else was on our side, ww1 and ww2 started long before the US got involved, better late than never I suppose.

4) So all the european scientists had no input? Hitler came pretty damn close to getting there first-see heroes of Telemark and 633 squadron for an enjoyable film depiction of how the Norwegians and British stopped him. By the way what nationality was the guy that told them how to detonate it with a shaped charge.

5) I'll give you that one but I bet there was a scot involved somewhere.

6) Thanks to all the German rocket engineers.

7) he invented the light bulb, I'll give you that one.

8) He was from Edinburgh I go past where he used to live on an almost daily basis. He would be mortified that people think he was american-it's bad enough that some think he was English

9) British designs given to the US in 1942 in a spirit of reciprocity that was never recipricated properly by the americans. We also gave you the designs for the jet engine and without which you would still be using propellers.

10)

http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~ped/teachadmi ... lect4.html

Not to mention the silicon chip and the transistor. and the computer used to crack the enigma codes at Bexley heath.

You may as well face up to it, without the europeans you might be able to see in the dark but you wouldn't be going very far or very high without all the ideas you pinched from us. :D
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Post by Jives »

All that might be true, but in the history books, we will not write that down. (We are already actively teaching everything I wrote as fact)That way it will slowly become forgotten over the centuries and America will get 100% credit for everything.

As it should be. :sneaky:
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Post by BabyRider »

gmc wrote:



The issue is what they are being asked to do, is it the right thing or not and will, it work?




Yet again: Troops are not "asked" to do anything. They follow orders, no questions. :-5
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Post by Jives »

Good point: In the words of Alfred Lord Tennyson:

"Theirs not to reason why,

Theirs but to do and die,

Into the Valley of Death

rode the six hundred".
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
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Post by kensloft »

Jives wrote: All that might be true, but in the history books, we will not write that down. (We are already actively teaching everything I wrote as fact)That way it will slowly become forgotten over the centuries and America will get 100% credit for everything.

As it should be. :sneaky:
Guess you have to remember that the phone originally was done and tested in Canada. We will be here long after America becomes our 11th province. History books will show that he did id here, first
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Post by anastrophe »

gmc wrote: 7) he invented the light bulb, I'll give you that one.
no, thomas edison did not invent the light bulb. a common misconception.
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Post by anastrophe »

Jives wrote:

10. Invented and mass produced both the home computer and the internet itself - Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Without which we couldn't have this thread.


gotta take you to task for this one. bill gates and steve jobs had absolutely, positively, NOTHING to do with inventing the Internet.



Much of the credit for creating the software that became the substructure of the internet goes to Dennis M. Ritchie and Ken Thompson of Bell Labs ( http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/index.html ), who invented UNIX. Vint Cerf, co-developer of Transmission Control Protocol/Internet Protocol - TCP/IP - also deserves much of the credit.



however, the actual *Internet* was invented/created by DARPA - the Defense Advance Research Projects Agency - http://www.darpa.mil - yes, the U.S. Military.
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Post by kensloft »

Has anyone ever noticed that when people begin to get patriotic the first thing out the door to be embellished is the truth?

Imagine the bucks that could have made had not the world been given the www.
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Post by Jives »

No, but I've noticed that whenever I point out that the 20th century was dominated by America and that America is a great country, people begin to nitpick little details. Look at the big picture instead.

Are you arguing that America is not a great country?
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Post by gmc »

posted by jives

All that might be true, but in the history books, we will not write that down. (We are already actively teaching everything I wrote as fact)That way it will slowly become forgotten over the centuries and America will get 100% credit for everything.




Only among americans, sadly I think you might have a point. The thing is most of the great scientific advances come from diverse sources and no one country can claim credit.

posted by babyrider

Yet again: Troops are not "asked" to do anything. They follow orders, no questions.


Sorry, that defence was discredited at the Nuremburg trials, just following orders is not a defence if committing an atrocity. Do not american soldiers undertake to follow "lawful" orders of those put in charge of them, sure I read that somewhere.

In one aspect both british and american troops are the same, they do their jobs brilliantly, if only their politicians were half as good.

posted by jives

No, but I've noticed that whenever I point out that the 20th century was dominated by America and that America is a great country, people begin to nitpick little details. Look at the big picture instead.

Are you arguing that America is not a great country?


No I'm not, america is a great country. But I live in a great country as well and this idea that america only ever went to war to save the world for democracy is a simplistic explanation of what actually happened. If ww2 started in 1939 and you didn't get involved till 1942 that is hardly a minor point, there was quite a lot going on before then. Same in korea, there were more nationalities involved than just american but i would be willing to bet most americans, if they have even if heard of the korean war in the first place don't know that-it's kind of a forgotten war.

I do look at the big picture that's why I have no problem accepting that the last fling of the european empires was ww1, their successors are still jockeying for position and things roll on. The Russians and Chinese might view things differently as well
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Post by BabyRider »

I love the debate going on here, I'm learning a lot. Anastrophe, I did not know that the U.S. military was responsible for inventing the internet.

The original post that I made is indicative of how I feel about what's going on. I am proud of my country, but I am not saying that we are better than Canada, or Scotland or Ireland, or anyone. I just happen to be very patriotic and I'm not ashamed of that. If anyone has taken offense to my patriotism, I am sorry, but that doesn't mean I'll be any less patriotic. There are facts here that I didn't know, I'm not a big history buff, so I hope this continues so that I can learn more. But one thing I do know is that I love my country, flaws and all. Please continue guys! It's very enlightening! :yh_bigsmi
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Post by Jives »

I've had this exact same thread on my forum, (with the exact same results I might add.) I love our allies (and hate our enemies) but I still don't think that raising up the United States automatically means that I'm pulling down anyone else.

You just can't underrate the impact the United States has had in the past century!

:yh_flag :yh_flag :yh_flag
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Post by Jives »

The third REich was supposed to last a thousand years? Pfft! America will last two thousand!! Long may she wave!

America the Beautiful - 1913

O beautiful for spacious skies,

For amber waves of grain,

For purple mountain majesties

Above the fruited plain!

America! America!

God shed his grace on thee

And crown thy good with brotherhood

From sea to shining sea!

O beautiful for pilgrim feet

Whose stern, impassioned stress

A thoroughfare for freedom beat

Across the wilderness!

America! America!

God mend thine every flaw,

Confirm thy soul in self-control,

Thy liberty in law!

O beautiful for heroes proved In liberating strife.

Who more than self the country loved

And mercy more than life!

America! America!

May God thy gold refine

Till all success be nobleness

And every gain divine!

O beautiful for patriot dream

That sees beyond the years

Thine alabaster cities gleam

Undimmed by human tears!

America! America!

God shed his grace on thee

And crown thy good with brotherhood

From sea to shining sea!

O beautiful for halcyon skies,

For amber waves of grain,

For purple mountain majesties

Above the enameled plain!

America! America!

God shed his grace on thee

Till souls wax fair as earth and air

And music-hearted sea!

O beautiful for pilgrims feet,

Whose stern impassioned stress

A thoroughfare for freedom beat

Across the wilderness!

America ! America !

God shed his grace on thee

Till paths be wrought through

wilds of thought

By pilgrim foot and knee!

O beautiful for glory-tale

Of liberating strife

When once and twice,

for man's avail

Men lavished precious life !

America! America!

God shed his grace on thee

Till selfish gain no longer stain

The banner of the free!

O beautiful for patriot dream

That sees beyond the years

Thine alabaster cities gleam

Undimmed by human tears!

America! America!

God shed his grace on thee

Till nobler men keep once again

Thy whiter jubilee!

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Post by BabyRider »

:yh_flag :yh_flag :yh_flag
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Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


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Post by kensloft »

Jives wrote: No, but I've noticed that whenever I point out that the 20th century was dominated by America and that America is a great country, people begin to nitpick little details. Look at the big picture instead.

Are you arguing that America is not a great country?
Not at all. America is a great country but it has this habit that people all over the world see as stealing their thunder. Give credit where credit is due is what it is all about. That America or any other nation, for that matter, can utilize the technology of the day and exploit it to make it grow is a given. Don't forget where the technology came from in the first place.

It is the world that has made America what it is. Not America made the world. We all look at the big picture. It is the explaining of how the big picture got to the the big picture that is in need of fine tuning. Taking credit for something that you did not do is not the way to create a legacy!

Telling it like it is means just that. Telling it like it is.
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Post by kensloft »

BabyRider wrote: I love the debate going on here, I'm learning a lot. Anastrophe, I did not know that the U.S. military was responsible for inventing the internet.

The original post that I made is indicative of how I feel about what's going on. I am proud of my country, but I am not saying that we are better than Canada, or Scotland or Ireland, or anyone. I just happen to be very patriotic and I'm not ashamed of that. If anyone has taken offense to my patriotism, I am sorry, but that doesn't mean I'll be any less patriotic. There are facts here that I didn't know, I'm not a big history buff, so I hope this continues so that I can learn more. But one thing I do know is that I love my country, flaws and all. Please continue guys! It's very enlightening! :yh_bigsmi
All power to patriotism. Don't be a chauvinist. It is everyone that makes the world. Not a specific nation. No offense to your patriotism. It's cool. Don't give yourself credit for things that you aren't responsible for doing. That is why the rest of the world gets po'd at America. They are seen as a bunch of blowhards that pretend that they invented the world.

America has done wonderful things for the world. Claiming that they were first doing everything doesn't make for happy allies. No one can take the credit for Hubble. He was an American. There are scads of Americans that have done wonderful things for the world. Take credit for them. It is your right and responsibility to make sure that the world knows of these deeds. But stick to America. We feel the same way about the people from our countries that have led us out of the caves and into the 21st century. Our patriotixm and sense of fair play dictates that these people be given their due.
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Post by BabyRider »

kensloft wrote: Don't give yourself credit for things that you aren't responsible for doing.
Did I do that Ken? :yh_think
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Post by kensloft »

BabyRider wrote: Did I do that Ken? :yh_think
Certainly not.



I was talking to Jives' mention of feats that his America Dream is laying claim to as being the reasons why they Americans) are the leaders of the world. When they start getting patriotic I tend to look a lot closer to look for flaws. Don't become an empty-minded follower is all I am saying. You're great. You wouldn't do something like that. Neither would Jives. He's just all emotional. Wants to make sure that people stand up and take notice. It is not done with malevolance. Just didn't do his research that well. Happens to everyone.

Contrary to popular belief, Canadians did not invent the igloo!
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Post by BabyRider »

kensloft wrote: Certainly not.




Oh good! :yh_sweat

You had me quoted when you said that, and I went back and re-read everything I'd written in this post, and didn't see anything, but I wondered! Ya' had me worried for a second!

I think being patriotic and getting emotional about it go hand in hand. I still hope this continues, since there's so much to learn!
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Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.




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Post by kensloft »

BabyRider wrote: Oh good! :yh_sweat

You had me quoted when you said that, and I went back and re-read everything I'd written in this post, and didn't see anything, but I wondered! Ya' had me worried for a second!

I think being patriotic and getting emotional about it go hand in hand. I still hope this continues, since there's so much to learn!
That' what it is all about isn't it?
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Post by Dessie »

I am a Navy wife... I have to say that it is VERY nice to hear other people still believe in our country and it's Military. There are just so many people out there that are 'anti-america' these days... I would like to thank our vets, and all those serving today. I didn't get a chance to read everything you guys were talking about, but I got the basic concept! My husband is a Chief in the Navy and VERY proud to be!! He is hearing a lot of the same thing when asking new sailors why they joined the Navy...to get free schooling, that just makes me sad. These kids have NO IDEA what the Military is really about...and those will be the ones whos parents will end up on the presidents front lawn blaming him when their kids die defending their country rather than being grateful to their kids for keeping them free! Sorry...I get emotional when I start on this subject, and it ends up getting all flustered.

Thank you for your service!!!
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