ForumGarden Upgraded Software Update

Post by **Betty Boop** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:43 am

Bryn Mawr;1265136 wrote: Regardless of how badly the point was made, that is what the original request asked for and it is valid to try to find out how people see it working.

That's all that was being asked Odie, and it's an incredibly relevant point.

It's this whole everyone getting on their high horse act and assuming people are having a dig all the time that is half the problem. The reaction that they are having a dig when they are not then leads to the point where the person does dig in frustration.

Blimey does that make sense :-3 school run will have to explain later if it doesn't

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:45 am

G#Gill;1265140 wrote: When a complaint is made through the 'report button', the complainant should be entitled to know what, and if, anything has been done about it. I.E. That the person being complained about has actually been contacted by a mod (if the complaint warranted it) - there would be no specific details given, other than that. That is what I meant.

Well that should be happening anyway, as far as I was aware, we always contact the person who reported a post to let them know we were dealing with it, Id say any mods not doing that, should be lol...Hell we even thank members who report the spammers by pm.

Post by **spot** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:49 am

Chezzie;1265146 wrote: Well that should be happening anyway, as far as I was aware, we always contact the person who reported a post to let them know we were dealing with it, Id say any mods not doing that, should be lol...Hell we even thank members who report the spammers by pm.

Then perhaps, instead of needing a new members-access forum to discuss moderating, we could simply ask that every member who makes a report but gets no acknowledgement from a moderator say so in "Problems and Feedback". Personally I was under the impression that such responses to members making a report were already routine. I'd even put money on that.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:00 am

Betty Boop;1265145 wrote: That's all that was being asked Odie, and it's an incredibly relevant point.

It's this whole everyone getting on their high horse act and assuming people are having a dig all the time that is half the problem. The reaction that they are having a dig when they are not then leads to the point where the person does dig in frustration.

Blimey does that make sense :-3 school run will have to explain later if it doesn't

stop for a minute and just think.....if someone said this to you, how would YOU feel?

_____________________________________________________________

'Odie, I have never once seen you keep track of any thread. Either you write without reading or you have the attention span of a goldfish.'

_______________________________________________________________-

-anyone here would have responded.:-5

Blimey, does this make sense?:yh_rotfl

enjoy your day at school.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:01 am

spot;1265147 wrote: Then perhaps, instead of needing a new members-access forum to discuss moderating, we could simply ask that every member who makes a report but gets no acknowledgement from a moderator to say so in "Problems and Feedback". Personally I was under the impression that such responses to members making a report were already routine. I'd even put money on that.

Good suggestion Spot, if that's all the forum was wanted for, however we still don't know what the members do want it for and Tombstone seems quite happy to install the new forum and see what happens. He is being inundated with complaints that the mods are biased, favour their friends and think their God on here so since their is no proof of that in the mod forum, maybe this "open" forum will quell the rumours too..I for one am sick of being used as a scapegoat when someone doesnt like what another member does here.

I wont be used anymore, mod or not, im not keeping quiet while members are saying im biased towards other members when nothing could be further from the truth...I dont see why members can say this and I have to keep quiet because im a mod, so im not..If that means my mod status gets taken off me, so be it..It's truly disgusting to read what people say about you without a shred of evidence.

I'm hoping this thread will be the turn around, I am actually hoping that TS gives us more of a voice on the forum, so when someone posts an untruth about us we can answer back without it being looked on as a bad thing cos were mods and we have to keep quiet like we do now.

Post by **spot** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:11 am

Odie;1265148 wrote: stop for a minute and just think.....if someone said this to you, how would YOU feel?It's not a question of how you feel, it's a question of whether it's true or not. You quoted Ian criticizing the proposed new forum and said you were in favour of it and that reports should be discussed there, which is where I intervened in the thread asking you why. It was in Post 30. Ian:"I think creating a room for "Admin, mods, and members" will cause more problems and arguing, I don't see a mod v. members situation.....", Odie: "I do, its a great way for all of us to communicate as members versus members and mods. Members would have a much better understanding of if and why. If a report has been made, members will be notified it was received and what happened". Perhaps you don't think that means in the new forum? How could you think that? I see many of your responses to me as unblushing about-turns, I took your subsequent comments here to be yet another.

If the new member-access forum's not to discuss reports, what's it for?

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:14 am

I Think i have only reported spam,, and once i reported a thread so as to officially ask the mods to merge a load of threads about the same subject. i have always received a reply. Oh! i just remembered , yes i have reported a member before as well:wah: but nobody would ever guess who

:yh_rotfl Still again i received a reply promptly from the mods. One time (only once to myknowledge:wah:) i was reported. I put my case and politely asked for feedback of a decision, and i was again answered and dealt with quite promptly in my opinion. These are of course only my experiences as far as interaction with mods, in their capacity as mods.

I feel if people are going to be made aware of what decision was made ,, infraction or warning for eg. (someone banned is obvious for all to see) then will the person being infracted etc be made aware of who has reported them? Personally i would have no problem with that as i try not to be hypocrital, but generally i think it would be trouble waiting to happen if you ask me. But then until we know exactly what this room is for, or how it will be used its all guesswork isnt it

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:33 am

Chezzie;1265149 wrote: Good suggestion Spot, if that's all the forum was wanted for, however we still don't know what the members do want it for and Tombstone seems quite happy to install the new forum and see what happens. He is being inundated with complaints that the mods are biased, favour their friends and think their God on here so since their is no proof of that in the mod forum, maybe this "open" forum will quell the rumours too..I for one am sick of being used as a scapegoat when someone doesnt like what another member does here.

I wont be used anymore, mod or not, im not keeping quiet while members are saying im biased towards other members when nothing could be further from the truth...I dont see why members can say this and I have to keep quiet because im a mod, so im not..If that means my mod status gets taken off me, so be it..It's truly disgusting to read what people say about you without a shred of evidence.

I'm hoping this thread will be the turn around, I am actually hoping that TS gives us more of a voice on the forum, so when someone posts an untruth about us we can answer back without it being looked on as a bad thing cos were mods and we have to keep quiet like we do now.

Once we get the room, my first question will be along the lines of 'Why is it every time I infract someone, BB and Chez get attacked for playing god? Is it because I'm agnostic and the complaint would have no affect(effect?) on me?'

Seriously, wtf? I'm no mods bitch, doing their bidding!:D Okay, I will if they pay for it...:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:32 am

spot;1265151 wrote: It's not a question of how you feel, it's a question of whether it's true or not. You quoted Ian criticizing the proposed new forum and said you were in favour of it and that reports should be discussed there, which is where I intervened in the thread asking you why. It was in Post 30. Ian:"I think creating a room for "Admin, mods, and members" will cause more problems and arguing, I don't see a mod v. members situation.....", Odie: "I do, its a great way for all of us to communicate as members versus members and mods. Members would have a much better understanding of if and why. If a report has been made, members will be notified it was received and what happened". Perhaps you don't think that means in the new forum? How could you think that? I see many of your responses to me as unblushing about-turns, I took your subsequent comments here to be yet another.

If the new member-access forum's not to discuss reports, what's it for?

yup, I did say this:

"I do, its a great way for all of us to communicate as members versus members and mods. Members would have a much better understanding of if and why. If a report has been made, members will be notified it was received and what happened".

did you read today's Spot?

Today, 09:36 AM

Odie

Senior Member

Supporting Member

Re: ForumGarden Upgraded Software Update

I have also just said 'now and agreed'...reported posts should not be discussed by mods to members as its not their concern.

It's up to Tombstone and the mods to decide what is best for everyone.

:driving:

Post by **spot** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:49 am

Odie;1265172 wrote: yup, I did say this:

"I do, its a great way for all of us to communicate as members versus members and mods. Members would have a much better understanding of if and why. If a report has been made, members will be notified it was received and what happened".

did you read today's Spot?

Today, 09:36 AM

Odie

Senior Member

Supporting Member

Re: ForumGarden Upgraded Software Update

I have also just said 'now and agreed'...reported posts should not be discussed by mods to members as its not their concern.I noticed that, you got there eventually.

So, what's the new member-enabled forum for? What are people going to discuss in it? Why does it need to be members-only, why are guests to be excluded?

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:00 am

spot;1265177 wrote: I noticed that, you got there eventually.

So, what's the new member-enabled forum for? What are people going to discuss in it? Why does it need to be members-only, why are guests to be excluded?

It might put them off paying to be a supporting member so we will lull them into a false sense of security and then set the God Mods on them:wah::wah:

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:06 am

spot;1265177 wrote: I noticed that, you got there eventually.

simple wasn't it?

all you had to do was read my posts.

koan · Post by **koan** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:29 am

Not knowing if the new software has different features, the settings on vB have allowed for forums and subforums to have settings regarding who may write in a thread and who may see the thread separately.

ie) Journal area only allows the person starting the thread to write in it but allows everyone else to read it.

Settings in the proposed forum will only allow members to write in it if they start the thread so only the members wishing to have dialogue with mods about an issue can start the thread. It can be set so that only the mods and member starting a thread can read it.

It would be absurd to have reported posts generate a thread in the proposed forum for two reasons. 1) there would be masses of posts generated for which the reporter doesn't need dialogue ie)reporting spam or reporting the same member multiple times within the same thread... but more importantly 2) the threads would have the exact same title in both the new area and the current mod forum so it would be hard to ensure we were responding to the mod area thread instead of the open board one unless we changed the title of one out of the two threads generated with every report.

So, based on the settings in previous software, members would have to generate a thread in the new area themselves which would only be viewable by themselves and mods requesting some information regarding whatever issue they are concerned about. It would, essentially, replace having to choose a mod to PM in order to get information and ensure that all the mods are aware of what the member is trying to find out.

If a member goes to the forum and they haven't started a thread there it will appear to be empty.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:13 pm

spot;1265130 wrote: Odie, I have never once seen you keep track of any thread. Either you write without reading or you have the attention span of a goldfish. It has everything to do with reported posts. This is from Gill's initial request earlier in the thread, asking for the new forum area:
I think your still failing to comprehend Odie's Initial question. She merely asked originally that when a post is reported, why does the reporter not get a confirmation or an up-date. Rather than Odie and Gill failing to comprehend you, may I suggest, that It is you that fails to grasp their very simple query?

May I also suggest that you are not so rude to members on this forum? You may consider yourself to be of Unquestionable Intellect but to accuse any member of having the attention span of a goldfish is downright Insulting and an apology to Odie would be acceptable in this case. Who made you the IQ Police? Have some curtesy please. !!

mrsK · Post by **mrsK** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:50 pm

Chezzie;1265149 wrote: Good suggestion Spot, if that's all the forum was wanted for, however we still don't know what the members do want it for and Tombstone seems quite happy to install the new forum and see what happens. He is being inundated with complaints that the mods are biased, favour their friends and think their God on here so since their is no proof of that in the mod forum, maybe this "open" forum will quell the rumours too..I for one am sick of being used as a scapegoat when someone doesnt like what another member does here.

I wont be used anymore, mod or not, im not keeping quiet while members are saying im biased towards other members when nothing could be further from the truth...I dont see why members can say this and I have to keep quiet because im a mod, so im not..If that means my mod status gets taken off me, so be it..It's truly disgusting to read what people say about you without a shred of evidence.

I'm hoping this thread will be the turn around, I am actually hoping that TS gives us more of a voice on the forum, so when someone posts an untruth about us we can answer back without it being looked on as a bad thing cos were mods and we have to keep quiet like we do now.

Good post Chezzie.

:yh_worshp:yh_hugs:yh_worshp

I would like any person on here to let me know who I have favoured in my position as a mod.

We as mods, do as TS ask's .Simple as that.:-6

Post by **spot** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:06 pm

oscar;1265230 wrote: I think your still failing to comprehend Odie's Initial question. She merely asked originally that when a post is reported, why does the reporter not get a confirmation or an up-date. Rather than Odie and Gill failing to comprehend you, may I suggest, that It is you that fails to grasp their very simple query?

May I also suggest that you are not so rude to members on this forum? You may consider yourself to be of Unquestionable Intellect but to accuse any member of having the attention span of a goldfish is downright Insulting and an apology to Odie would be acceptable in this case. Who made you the IQ Police? Have some curtesy please. !!

As I suggested last time you wandered in here to excite yourself, go and read the words she wrote rather than attempt to interpret her meaning by more dubious and arbitrary methods. "If a report has been made," - note the singular "report" - "members will be notified" - note the plural "members" - "it was received and what happened". That can't be a PM to the reporter, that has to be a post to the new forum area.

Regarding the goldfish, I was establishing an association between Odie and the eponymous hero of Finding Nemo. Both fail to remember what they've said from one moment to the next.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:25 pm

I think it may be a good idea to simply ignore reported posts altogether except for spam and sexual explicit content (but that falls under spam IMO). Perhaps reduce the explanation of a reported post to just those categories and reject all others. But then the mods would need to be very diligent in visiting threads. If members choose to harass one another with petty offenses, just jail the posts or have a members only forum for them to fight it out where outside visitors could not view the problems.

As for spam -- in our forum, yaaarrrgg made some sort of teapot that caused bots to get lost in and we stopped being spammed all together. maybe TS can ask him how he did it.

Adults should be expected to behave as adults (look who is talking you might say) but when they can't give them a place where the rest are not bothered by the problems. And if they happen to carry it out into the open forum, jail the posts.

Something apparently needs to be done because this forum cannot afford to ignore the concerns of its regular members, and the mods don't deserve to be inundated with trivial bs. You'll eventually loose both.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:25 pm

I have no problem with any of the current moderators who are up front current moderators. Quite the contrary. They do a sterling job. But who else is on the current list? Or no longer there? For instance, are Clint and Carolly still moderators? I'd like the reassurance of the actual current moderators that they and Tombstone decide things. Spot certainly seems to have taken his usual dominant, in-charge position in this thread. Is he still moderator-general then, unofficially - meaning nothing has really changed all that much? I can live with that but just let's update the list to reflect the actual situation, and then move on.

Post by **spot** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:38 pm

AussiePam;1265268 wrote: Spot certainly seems to have taken his usual dominant, in-charge position in this thread. Is he still moderator-general then, unofficially - meaning nothing has really changed all that much?No.

All I did was ask a question. Repeatedly, since I got no answer. I note that, despite the number of posters in the thread who say they want this new member-access forum and that I invited a response from any or all of them, I've still not had one.

RJ's suggested forum area already exists on FG - it's the Compost Pile.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:52 pm

AussiePam;1265268 wrote: I have no problem with any of the current moderators who are up front current moderators. Quite the contrary. They do a sterling job. But who else is on the current list? Or no longer there? For instance, are Clint and Carolly still moderators? I'd like the reassurance of the actual current moderators that they and Tombstone decide things. Spot certainly seems to have taken his usual dominant, in-charge position in this thread. Is he still moderator-general then, unofficially - meaning nothing has really changed all that much? I can live with that but just let's update the list to reflect the actual situation, and then move on.

It cannot be more than six weeks since the full list of Mods was last published - it certainly is not secret.

Tombstone sets the rules, we apply them, simple. Spot may have opinions (and is fully entitled to air them) but has no more power or influence than you do - that is the actual situation and has been for quite some time.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:19 pm

Ian;1265311 wrote: I think it would be interesting if the Mods only used Glitter text.

think about it.....

But that would be showing biased to Mods Ian...tut tut ( baby pink background and silver shimmers..swooon)

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:25 pm

chezzie;1265313 wrote: but that would be showing biased to mods ian...tut tut ( baby pink background and silver shimmers..swooon)

just think how posh you would look!:sneaky:

:yh_rotfl

why is your silhouette not glimmering and shaking?:-5:-5

damn photobucket.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:27 pm

Odie;1265319 wrote: just think how posh you would look!:sneaky:

:yh_rotfl

Excuse me - that definitely wouldn't suit my complexion :wah:

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:27 pm

Odie;1265319 wrote: just think how posh you would look!:sneaky:

:yh_rotfl

why is it not glimmering and shaking?:-5:-5

Corrrrrrrrrr I fancy me lol:D

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:31 pm

Chezzie;1265313 wrote: But that would be showing biased to Mods Ian...tut tut ( baby pink background and silver shimmers..swooon)

Ere, you guys, I've got the PINK t-shirts (since my disaster in the washing machine LOL), any one got the glitter ? :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:31 pm

Chezzie;1265324 wrote: Corrrrrrrrrr I fancy me lol:D

okay, its a done deal!:yh_rotfl

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:32 pm

Bryn Mawr;1265322 wrote: Excuse me - that definitely wouldn't suit my complexion :wah:

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

what colour glitter would you like to be?:wah:

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:33 pm

G#Gill;1265328 wrote: Ere, you guys, I've got the PINK t-shirts (since my disaster in the washing machine LOL), any one got the glitter ? :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

you and Chezzie can dress the same!:yh_rotfl

two lady mods dressing posh!:guitarist

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:35 pm

Looks good on me....................

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:37 pm

Odie;1265331 wrote: :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

what colour glitter would you like to be?:wah:

Black, matt black - it's the image don't you know

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:42 pm

Bryn Mawr;1265337 wrote: Black, matt black - it's the image don't you know

of course its the image, you likey?:sneaky:

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:43 pm

chonsigirl;1265336 wrote: Looks good on me....................

oh bunny girl, that's you!:guitarist

our mods are beginning to look posh!:D

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:45 pm

Odie;1265339 wrote: of course its the image, you likey?:-6

That would be my younger days - now it's more :-

Attached files

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:47 pm

Bryn Mawr;1265344 wrote: That would be my younger days - now it's more :-

Yes Sir, Mr. Bond!:yh_rotfl

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:49 pm

Bryn Mawr;1265289 wrote: It cannot be more than six weeks since the full list of Mods was last published - it certainly is not secret.

Tombstone sets the rules, we apply them, simple. Spot may have opinions (and is fully entitled to air them) but has no more power or influence than you do - that is the actual situation and has been for quite some time.

Before this thread gets totally swamped in the usual happy glitter etc, I'd like to thank you, Bryn for the clear and unambiguous reassurance you have given. It is appreciated. I'm done now with this topic - just tell me please where I can find the updated mod list and I'm off out of here, to answer the call of Calliope (having promised Odie a limerick Requiem for a Goldfish).

koan · Post by **koan** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:52 pm

Bryn Mawr;1265344 wrote: That would be my younger days - now it's more :-

I'd describe you more like this:

YouTube - Dos Equis: The Most Interesting Man in the World (Summer 2009)

:yh_giggle

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:52 pm

AussiePam;1265349 wrote: Before this thread gets totally swamped in the usual happy glitter etc, I'd like to thank you, Bryn for the clear and unambiguous reassurance you have given. It is appreciated. I'm done now with this topic - just tell me please where I can find the updated mod list and I'm off out of here, to answer the call of Calliope (having promised Odie a limerick Requiem for a Goldfish).

wrong link hang on

Here pam

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:57 pm

Love this guy "Stay thirsty my friends" he is just cool. :-6

[QUOTE]I'd describe you more like this:

YouTube - Dos Equis: The Most Interesting Man in the World (Summer 2009)[/QUOTE]

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:58 pm

spot;1265245 wrote: As I suggested last time you wandered in here to excite yourself, .
Wandered in here to excite myself?? Your deluded man. I think my post count shows I have done more than 'wander' in to 'excite myself'. If I do want to 'Excite' myself, I can 10 rounds with gmc... now that does excite me. Your rudeness just holds no bounds does It not?

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:59 pm

koan;1265352 wrote: I'd describe you more like this:

YouTube - Dos Equis: The Most Interesting Man in the World (Summer 2009)

:yh_giggle

omg I pee'd a little :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:59 pm

AussiePam;1265349 wrote: Before this thread gets totally swamped in the usual happy glitter etc, I'd like to thank you, Bryn for the clear and unambiguous reassurance you have given. It is appreciated. I'm done now with this topic - just tell me please where I can find the updated mod list and I'm off out of here, to answer the call of Calliope (having promised Odie a limerick Requiem for a Goldfish).

Here's the post :-

#75

Which gives :-

Abbey,Betty Boop, Bryn Mawr, Carla, Carolly, Chezzie, Chonsigirl, Flopstock, G#Gill, G-man, Koan, MrsK, Mustang, Peg, Sheryl.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:01 pm

koan;1265352 wrote: I'd describe you more like this:

YouTube - Dos Equis: The Most Interesting Man in the World (Summer 2009)

:yh_giggle

At your service, Maam :-6

Post by **spot** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:08 pm

oscar;1265357 wrote: Wandered in here to excite myself?? Your deluded man. I think my post count shows I have done more than 'wander' in to 'excite myself'. If I do want to 'Excite' myself, I can 10 rounds with gmc... now that does excite me. Your rudeness just holds no bounds does It not?

Pah. Word games, woman. Take out the word games and you're down to a couple of hundred.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:22 pm

Thanks Bryn and Chezzie - my list was indeed out of date.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:32 pm

spot;1265367 wrote: Pah. Word games, woman. Take out the word games and you're down to a couple of hundred. Pfffttt :yh_ttth:yh_ttth:yh_ttth

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:39 pm

:-3:DIs it ready yet

Post by **spot** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:55 pm

kazalala;1280975 wrote: :-3:DIs it ready yet

It's a nasty business, going up to release 4. The makers say "Have you installed a custom theme or made any other major visual customizations to your site? The major improvements we made to the template system and the new XHTML site structure will cause most 3.x series themes to break. Check out". That's weeks of testing on FG before making release 4 live here and it's only three weeks since it was issued.

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:03 pm

spot;1280980 wrote: It's a nasty business, going up to release 4. The makers say "Have you installed a custom theme or made any other major visual customizations to your site? The major improvements we made to the template system and the new XHTML site structure will cause most 3.x series themes to break. Check out". That's weeks of testing on FG before making release 4 live here and it's only three weeks since it was issued.

ok, hurry up then:D;)

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:56 pm

kazalala;1280981 wrote: ok, hurry up then:D;)

Patience, patience :wah: