The Presidential Election of 2020

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spot
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

spot wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:18 am Did anyone see "The top communications official at the powerful cabinet department in charge of combating the coronavirus made outlandish and false accusations on Sunday that career government scientists were engaging in “sedition” in their handling of the pandemic and that left-wing hit squads were preparing for armed insurrection after the election"?
C.D.C. scientists “haven’t gotten out of their sweatpants except for meetings at coffee shops” to plot “how they’re going to attack Donald Trump next,” Mr. Caputo said. “There are scientists who work for this government who do not want America to get well, not until after Joe Biden is president.”

A longtime Trump loyalist with no background in health care, Mr. Caputo, 58, was appointed by the White House to his post in April, at a time when the president’s aides suspected the health secretary, Alex M. Azar II, of protecting his public image instead of Mr. Trump’s. Mr. Caputo coordinates the messaging of an 80,000-employee department that is at the center of the pandemic response, overseeing the Food and Drug Administration, the C.D.C. and the National Institutes of Health.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/us/p ... virus.html


An update:
The federal official tasked with building public trust in a vaccine abruptly took a leave of absence Wednesday, after he posted a Facebook Live video that accused government scientists of “sedition.” Michael Caputo, the assistant secretary for public affairs at the Department of Health and Human Services, will be gone for two months to “focus on his health and the well-being of his family," the department announced this afternoon. A top aide of Caputo's who had repeatedly badgered the CDC to make its reports more flattering to President Trump will also be leaving the government, but permanently.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... rture-hhs/
People do the oddest things sometimes. I expect "60 days" takes him to the end of his tenure.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by LarsMac »

tude dog wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:37 pm
spot wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:15 pm
spot wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:52 am I think the problem is that you currently have a broken democracy in which far too many people are excluded from voting, and that the proportion of people in America who can vote will be forced down instead of up, and that the population at large consists primarily of sheep led by the media. Other than that, you're all very nice people.
Out of interest, is anyone else reeding How Trump Stole 2020 by Greg Palast?
uH, actually no.
Just did a quick review of what it is all about he is picking on the wrong candidate at the wrong time.

Trump has made a big deal about voter fraud. 8-)
Trump IS a voter Fraud.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

Joe Biden Endorsed By Republican Governor Who Poisoned Flint, Michigan

That's fifty thousand votes fewer for Biden in Michigan then.

How on earth can the Biden campaign managers have been so slack and witless as to accept the endorsement and thank Rick Snyder of all people. If Pol Pot were alive it would be an equivalent mistake to invite him onto the platform. The residents of Flint despise Rick Snyder to quite the same extent that the people who survived the Khmer Rouge remembered the chap who led the regime there. How can Biden's team not already know that?
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by tude dog »

spot wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:16 amJoe Biden Endorsed By Republican Governor Who Poisoned Flint, Michigan
Poisioned Flint???? :shock:

Says who? :?
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

tude dog wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:31 am
spot wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:16 amJoe Biden Endorsed By Republican Governor Who Poisoned Flint, Michigan
Poisioned Flint???? :shock:

Says who? :?



Flint water crisis: Michigan 'agrees to pay $600m'

That development was only last month - what have you been watching all these years?

Here - another clip, but you might like to reed the article in full...
Michigan Governor Rick Snyder has faced heavy scrutiny, including calls for his resignation, for his role in the Flint water crisis, which poisoned that city's water with lead.

Mr Snyder went to Washington on Thursday to speak in front of a congressional panel about the water crisis. Flint residents, including many children, have tested positive for lead contamination, which can lead to learning disabilities and other complications.

Ahead of his appearance before lawmakers, Mr Snyder wrote a letter to Congress. Read the full text below:

"Chairman Chaffetz, Ranking Member Cummings, and Members of the Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today about the crisis in Flint and the actions we are taking to ensure that nothing like this ever happens again.

Let me be blunt. This was a failure of government at all levels. Local, state, and federal officials – we all failed the families of Flint.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 36621.html
You can't not know. Seriously.



As for personal responsibility,
Shortly after taking office in 2011, Snyder appointed powerful emergency managers to oversee the cash-strapped municipalities of Detroit and Flint. And those managers promoted Flint’s temporary turn to the Flint River for its water supply in 2014 as part of a cost-saving measure.

Last year [2015], a University of Michigan biologist found that an outbreak of Legionnaires’ disease that killed at least 12 Flint residents was likely due to inadequate treatment of that water. Also during the crisis, thousands of children were exposed to toxic levels of lead. Lead poisoning can cause setbacks in brain development, irritability, anemia and other serious health effects.

Art Reyes III earned his master’s degree in public policy from the Kennedy School just as that crisis was breaking out, and now heads We The People Michigan, a political organization formed in response to the crisis. Reyes says people in his hometown still hold Snyder personally responsible for the crisis.

“Governor Snyder knew about the lead leaching into the water system months before that was made public,” Reyes said.

https://www.wbur.org/edify/2019/07/01/s ... t-michigan


The bolding is mine. It's in answer to "says who". We The People Michigan, a political organization formed in response to the crisis, is who. I expect they know more about it than either of us, it's their children. It's why I wrote "That's fifty thousand votes fewer for Biden in Michigan then". Okay? It justifies me saying "The residents of Flint despise Rick Snyder".
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

From where I'm sat, 46 days from election day, I'll be very surprised if the incumbent doesn't get his second term of office. On the other hand I can well imagine the Senate changing hands to a practical Democrat majority.

We could guess on the new Senate, perhaps.

54 Democrat, against 46 Republican. How's that.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by tude dog »

spot wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:30 pm
You can't not know. Seriously.
Of course I knew about the Flin water problem. One of many issues demanding my attention. :(
As for personal responsibility,
I would have to take your word for it. :?
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by LarsMac »

spot wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:30 pm
tude dog wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:31 am
spot wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:16 amJoe Biden Endorsed By Republican Governor Who Poisoned Flint, Michigan
Poisioned Flint???? :shock:

Says who? :?



Flint water crisis: Michigan 'agrees to pay $600m'

That development was only last month - what have you been watching all these years?

Here - another clip, but you might like to reed the article in full...
Michigan Governor Rick Snyder has faced heavy scrutiny, including calls for his resignation, for his role in the Flint water crisis, which poisoned that city's water with lead.

Mr Snyder went to Washington on Thursday to speak in front of a congressional panel about the water crisis. Flint residents, including many children, have tested positive for lead contamination, which can lead to learning disabilities and other complications.

Ahead of his appearance before lawmakers, Mr Snyder wrote a letter to Congress. Read the full text below:

"Chairman Chaffetz, Ranking Member Cummings, and Members of the Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today about the crisis in Flint and the actions we are taking to ensure that nothing like this ever happens again.

Let me be blunt. This was a failure of government at all levels. Local, state, and federal officials – we all failed the families of Flint.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 36621.html
You can't not know. Seriously.



As for personal responsibility,
Shortly after taking office in 2011, Snyder appointed powerful emergency managers to oversee the cash-strapped municipalities of Detroit and Flint. And those managers promoted Flint’s temporary turn to the Flint River for its water supply in 2014 as part of a cost-saving measure.

Last year [2015], a University of Michigan biologist found that an outbreak of Legionnaires’ disease that killed at least 12 Flint residents was likely due to inadequate treatment of that water. Also during the crisis, thousands of children were exposed to toxic levels of lead. Lead poisoning can cause setbacks in brain development, irritability, anemia and other serious health effects.

Art Reyes III earned his master’s degree in public policy from the Kennedy School just as that crisis was breaking out, and now heads We The People Michigan, a political organization formed in response to the crisis. Reyes says people in his hometown still hold Snyder personally responsible for the crisis.

“Governor Snyder knew about the lead leaching into the water system months before that was made public,” Reyes said.

https://www.wbur.org/edify/2019/07/01/s ... t-michigan
The bolding is mine. It's in answer to "says who". We The People Michigan, a political organization formed in response to the crisis, is who. I expect they know more about it than either of us, it's their children. It's why I wrote "That's fifty thousand votes fewer for Biden in Michigan then". Okay? It justifies me saying "The residents of Flint despise Rick Snyder".
As little as I care for Gov Snyder, the Flint poisoning was not really his doing.
The City of Flint managed that, all by they lonesome.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

LarsMac wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:05 pm As little as I care for Gov Snyder, the Flint poisoning was not really his doing.
The City of Flint managed that, all by they lonesome.
But you would agree, presumably, that many people in Michigan do in fact blame the Governor personally, firstly for overseeing the change in water source supply solely to cut costs and secondly for not reacting adequately or even allowing the information to be made public - for a half year, not just days or weeks - after getting proof on his desk that a catastrophe was unfolding on his watch? I can't see how either of those points could be denied.

The Flint poisoning is the sort of event which, if it happened in some third-world city like Bhopal, would be ignored as what happens to poor people when they're in the way of capitalism. The fact that it's just swept aside as collateral damage in America tells me there's a lot of third-world aspects to American poverty, and very little concern or shame outside the impact zone.

I'll say it a third time - the Biden camp's acceptance of Rick Snyder's endorsement is a net vote loser for Biden's hopes in Michigan. What was needed was a bit of knee-jerk solidarity with the families condemned to lifelong brain injury. And someone, somewhere in the American political system, ought to be enabling the replacement of a huge backlog of lead piping in a whole lot of domestic water supplies across the nation instead of pretending their education system is the best in the world.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

This may be a silly question, but what will be the last date on which President Trump, if he were in fact to lose this election, would have been able to get a new nominee all the way to a seat on the Supreme Court after a Justice vacates? Has he missed the bus on that one yet? Assume all Democrats would delay him for long as they could, and all Republicans would accelerate to the extent allowed by law. Does the process time-out if not completed before December? Before Christmas? On January 20th?
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

Well, that was an embarrassingly timed question then.
Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, a towering women’s rights champion who became the court’s second female justice, died Friday at her home in Washington. She was 87.

https://www.dailynews.com/2020/09/18/su ... ies-at-87/



As for the scoundrel running the Senate these days, McConnell, here's what he had to say ten months before the end of President Obama's presidency:
"It is a president's constitutional right to nominate a Supreme Court justice, and it is the Senate's constitutional right to act as a check on a president and withhold its consent," McConnell said on the Senate floor following the president's nomination of U.S. Court of Appeals Judge Merrick Garland.

In his remarks earlier in the day, President Obama had called for the Senate to put politics aside and confirm Garland. Obama praised Garland's collegiality and ability to build consensus, saying "he's shown a rare ability to bring together odd couples."

A Supreme Court nomination, Obama said, is "supposed to be above politics, it has to be, and should stay that way."

McConnell's comments came after a pledge he made last month that the Senate would take no action on the nomination, setting the stage for a political fight. McConnell said Wednesday that the "the decision the Senate made weeks ago remains about a principle, not a person."

"It seems clear President Obama made this nomination not, not with the intent of seeing the nominee confirmed, but in order to politicize it for purposes of the election," McConnell said.

"I believe the overwhelming view of the Republican Conference in the Senate is that this nomination should not be filled, this vacancy should not be filled by this lame duck president," McConnell said.

"The American people are perfectly capable of having their say on this issue, so let's give them a voice. Let's let the American people decide. The Senate will appropriately revisit the matter when it considers the qualifications of the nominee the next president nominates, whoever that might be," McConnell said.

And today?

He's raring to get a new Republican-nominated candidate in place before November.

There ought to be a law keeping duplicitous opportunist cads like that from even running for office.

It's about a principle? What cobblers. It's entirely partisan power politics, which is as lacking in principle as it gets.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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spot wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:04 am
LarsMac wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:05 pm As little as I care for Gov Snyder, the Flint poisoning was not really his doing.
The City of Flint managed that, all by they lonesome.
But you would agree, presumably, that many people in Michigan do in fact blame the Governor personally, firstly for overseeing the change in water source supply solely to cut costs and secondly for not reacting adequately or even allowing the information to be made public - for a half year, not just days or weeks - after getting proof on his desk that a catastrophe was unfolding on his watch? I can't see how either of those points could be denied.

The Flint poisoning is the sort of event which, if it happened in some third-world city like Bhopal, would be ignored as what happens to poor people when they're in the way of capitalism. The fact that it's just swept aside as collateral damage in America tells me there's a lot of third-world aspects to American poverty, and very little concern or shame outside the impact zone.

I'll say it a third time - the Biden camp's acceptance of Rick Snyder's endorsement is a net vote loser for Biden's hopes in Michigan. What was needed was a bit of knee-jerk solidarity with the families condemned to lifelong brain injury. And someone, somewhere in the American political system, ought to be enabling the replacement of a huge backlog of lead piping in a whole lot of domestic water supplies across the nation instead of pretending their education system is the best in the world.
Well, he did complete screw the state response to the problem. I'll give you that. And his endorsement of Biden makes me wonder WTF he is up to.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by LarsMac »

This has inspired a lot of Dem folks to get out the vote.
Trump tells supporters 'you'll never see me again' if he loses to Biden

We remain hopeful
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

May one not hope he might return to The Apprentice?

I've never actually seen any but I'm sure it was nail-biting TV.

I just worked out why I wrote this - I've been considering buying "The Apprentice Doctor's IV and Phlebotomy Practice Arm" off Amazon. You can inject it, stitch it, wave it, take its pulse, all sorts.

Different apprentice, but a perfect stocking-filler for Christmas.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by LarsMac »

spot wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:08 am May one not hope he might return to The Apprentice?

I've never actually seen any but I'm sure it was nail-biting TV.

I just worked out why I wrote this - I've been considering buying "The Apprentice Doctor's IV and Phlebotomy Practice Arm" off Amazon. You can inject it, stitch it, wave it, take its pulse, all sorts.

Different apprentice, but a perfect stocking-filler for Christmas.
I managed to sit through a couple of episodes of that show - For no reason other than I was bored, and a tad curious, when out of town on a business trip, and channel surfing at the hotel room.
It was quite fascinating that people found it worthy of a couple of seasons.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

Shall we cast our predictions now?

Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin...

I made a spreadsheet earlier today.

There's a table of all the votes cast, by state, in presidential elections from 1976: https://dataverse.harvard.edu/dataset.x ... DVN/42MVDX

So, I took all the republican and democrat votes, and made a column for the percent vote they got in each state in each election from all people who voted.

Then I marked how many percent they won or lost that state by in that year.

Then I sorted, and scored each 5%+ wide-margin as "win" and "lose" and the closer results as "fight", for that year.

I counted how many state results for all years were a win, a lose or a fight. Every state with 5+ wide-margin wins for one party was awarded to the party on the grounds that the voting tendency of that state was predicted. That's 5+ wide-margin wins out of 11 elections.

Using those figures, I tested whether the 2016 election fit the data by awarding all the "fight" states to Donald Trump, because he had the momentum on the day.

The final tally matched the actual result in 49 out of the 50 states in the 2016 election. The only one it called wrong was Virginia, it predicted a Republican win but the state voted Democrat.

The predominantly-"fight" states are very few, actually - there were only six:

Florida
Nevada
North Carolina
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Wisconsin

I reckon the same will happen this year, with two Democrat states switching to Republican because Greg Palast says they've jimmied the state electoral registers:

Iowa
Michigan

and one state, Virginia, to go back to Republican, because I don't know why it switched. It voted 8 times in a row Republican and then 3 times Democrat.

That's my analysis. Final result: Biden 192, Trump 346, each less whatever half dozen split college votes they might lose in those peculiar states that split them.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

This is an opinion paragraph from today's Washington Post.
The past 45 months have been all plot and no climax. Now we have, a mere five weeks away, a presidential referendum that many anxious Americans are counting on to provide catharsis — relief from a bad dream, or at least the affirmation of a waking nightmare. Instead, we may have a Dark November: disbelief, ambiguity, rage, resistance, depression. A contested election piled on to economic and racial turmoil, destruction and trauma from epic wildfires out West, and a possible third wave of the coronavirus — all while colder weather traps us in our homes and shorter days rob us of light and warmth.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... story.html
Not a bad summary, that.

The Editorial Board endorsed the Democrat candidate today, too.
In order to expel the worst president of modern times, many voters might be willing to vote for almost anybody.

Fortunately, to oust President Trump in 2020, voters do not have to lower their standards. The Democratic nominee, former vice president Joe Biden, is exceptionally well-qualified, by character and experience, to meet the daunting challenges that the nation will face over the coming four years.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... rc404=true
I wonder who is going to wipe the floor with whom this evening. I can't see President Trump being polite, for instance.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

The first presidential debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden deteriorated into an ugly display of contempt on Tuesday night, as the president relentlessly interrupted and attacked his Democratic rival during clashes over the coronavirus pandemic, race, the economy and the future of the supreme court.

Over the course of an extraordinarily combative and chaotic 90-minute performance, a fitting coda to what has been one of the nastiest presidential campaigns in recent memory, Trump interjected so frequently that Biden at one point lost his patience and snapped: “Will you shut up, man? This is so unpresidential.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ntial-news
And, of course, if you remember far enough back, he treated Hillary that way too.

In a cleaner world, Biden would have talked for ninety minutes while the President sat chained in a Hannibal Lecter restraint. Instead he merely sank to the President's level of trading insults. He definitely failed to establish any clear blue moral dignity.

Весь вопрос - кто кого опередит?
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by LarsMac »

I am surprised! Aghast, even. (in my finest Snagglepuss voice)
Who could have possibly foreseen such behavior from the man?
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

Is there no moderator capable of switching off one microphone while the other speaks?
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by magentaflame »

spot wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:19 pm I do wish voters would just discount candidates over pensionable age, it would make things so much less geriatric.
we have quite a few coming in and frankly they are just versions of their fathers rich spoilt and not progressive at all.
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

"US President Donald Trump has said he and the US first lady are in quarantine after one of his closest aides tested positive for coronavirus".

If the President were trying to get to election day without having to appear in public, this would be helpful. But I don't think he wants to be isolated, I think he wants to be constantly in the headlines. He must be rather annoyed.

Testing negative after a quarantine order doesn't let you stop isolating yourself until the 14 day period is up - this is from the UK government clarifying the point this week: "The incubation period before which the virus can present itself is still estimated to require a 14-day self-isolation". Of course Americans might do this differently. As might Presidents.

"Ms Hicks was pictured getting off the presidential jet on Tuesday in Cleveland without a mask".

Still, it might save him from the second debate at least.

I really do not want to hear the words "President Pence", not now, not ever.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by Snooz »

He says he and Melania both of it.

What a shame.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

Snooz wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:25 pm He says he and Melania both of it.

What a shame.
There's a turn-up.

At least President Trump can take comfort that his trophy wife is so much younger than he is, and consequently less at risk of a serious consequence.

And there's photos everywhere of him slap up against his unmasked Vice President, too. I'm fairly sure if they win in November but then both expire in January before the inauguration we'd switch straight to President Grassley for the entire four year term, by the end of which he'd be in his nineties.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

31 days 23 hours 02 minutes and counting. Surely they can keep the man on a ventilator that long without switching it off. The Soviets used to do it whenever the need arose.

We had this a while ago in Britain. Boris survived. The first two weeks was all "Boris is fine, working at home" followed eventually by "Boris is on oxygen in hospital".

And, sure enough, that's started: '"Rest assured I expect the president to continue carrying out his duties without disruption while recovering, and I will keep you updated on any future developments," the statement said.'

I have yet to see anyone asking for prayers on behalf of the nation, but they'll no doubt arrive soon.

"It affects elderly people, elderly people with heart problems and other problems. If they have other problems. That's what it really affects. That's it. You know, In some states, thousands of people - nobody young. Below the age of 18, like, nobody. They have a strong immune system, who knows? You look...Take your hat off to the young, because they have a hell of an immune system. But it affects virtually nobody. It's an amazing thing."

President Trump, twelve days ago at Toledo Express Airport.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by Snooz »

spot wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:34 pm
Snooz wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:25 pm He says he and Melania both of it.

What a shame.
There's a turn-up.

At least President Trump can take comfort that his trophy wife is so much younger than he is, and consequently less at risk of a serious consequence.

And there's photos everywhere of him slap up against his unmasked Vice President, too. I'm fairly sure if they win in November but then both expire in January before the inauguration we'd switch straight to President Grassley for the entire four year term, by the end of which he'd be in his nineties.
Trump and Biden were separated by 12 feet or so on stage at the debates which *probably* would have been a safe distance but Trump spent so much time bellowing that he most likely sprayed the entire room with covid.

Pence has tested negative so we can breathe a sigh of relief that the country will be in good hands should the worst happen.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by Snooz »

spot wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:58 pm 31 days 23 hours 02 minutes and counting. Surely they can keep the man on a ventilator that long without switching it off. The Soviets used to do it whenever the need arose.

We had this a while ago in Britain. Boris survived. The first two weeks was all "Boris is fine, working at home" followed eventually by "Boris is on oxygen in hospital".

And, sure enough, that's started: '"Rest assured I expect the president to continue carrying out his duties without disruption while recovering, and I will keep you updated on any future developments," the statement said.'

I have yet to see anyone asking for prayers on behalf of the nation, but they'll no doubt arrive soon.

"It affects elderly people, elderly people with heart problems and other problems. If they have other problems. That's what it really affects. That's it. You know, In some states, thousands of people - nobody young. Below the age of 18, like, nobody. They have a strong immune system, who knows? You look...Take your hat off to the young, because they have a hell of an immune system. But it affects virtually nobody. It's an amazing thing."

President Trump, twelve days ago at Toledo Express Airport.
Pffft, he wasn't carrying out his duties before this, why start now?
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

I'm puzzled that they're talking about him recovering. He's not got ill yet. First he has to get ill and then when he's ill he can eventually start to recover. Just being infected isn't what he's recovering from.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by Bryn Mawr »

Snooz wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:15 am
spot wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:34 pm
Snooz wrote: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:25 pm He says he and Melania both of it.

What a shame.
There's a turn-up.

At least President Trump can take comfort that his trophy wife is so much younger than he is, and consequently less at risk of a serious consequence.

And there's photos everywhere of him slap up against his unmasked Vice President, too. I'm fairly sure if they win in November but then both expire in January before the inauguration we'd switch straight to President Grassley for the entire four year term, by the end of which he'd be in his nineties.
Trump and Biden were separated by 12 feet or so on stage at the debates which *probably* would have been a safe distance but Trump spent so much time bellowing that he most likely sprayed the entire room with covid.

Pence has tested negative so we can breathe a sigh of relief that the country will be in good hands should the worst happen.
Biden is immune, official :-

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-54382914
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

I wonder whether the White House has yet realized that unless they produce video of the President clearly taken on the day it's shown, everyone on the planet is going to think he's being kept clinically alive on a machine while his inner circle work out their next move. It's what happened with Andropov and Chernenko, and this chap's older, fatter and way less fit than either of them.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

Why anyone would believe the reassurances I've no idea. The time-honored paraphrase "well they would say that, wouldn't they", comes to mind.
"Out of an abundance of caution, and at the recommendation of his physician and medical experts, the president will be working from the presidential offices at Walter Reed for the next few days.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54396670

and "I have never seen so many WH staffers wearing masks at the same time throughout this entire pandemic" - CNN's Jeremy Diamond, tweeting.

I don’t wear a mask like him. Every time you see him, he’s got a mask. He could be speaking 200ft away from them and he shows up with the biggest mask I’ve ever seen.

President Trump, during his only Presidential Debate, 2020

I've decided to mark the moment by referring from now on not to Covid-19, but to the Trump virus. It only seems fair.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

Boris did the same thing as his case worsened, he appeared on national TV saying I'm working, I'm in control, my brain is active, I'm getting over it. He looked rough though. Days later was at death's door.

President Trump looked rough in yesterday's video from Walter Reed, I thought. Given that the people recording the broadcast must have primped him as far as they could, he looked frightful.

The White House appears to still be staffed. The two thugling wild-animal-killer Trumps have been told to keep the campaign going, which is scraping the bottom of the barrel - the campaign would do better to go dark than to let those two pointless wastrels in front of a camera.

There's a quote in an article in the Guardian - "Unfortunately, should he be re-elected, one of the ways he’ll respond to that is he’ll take it out on everyone who he thinks diminished or belittled him along the way.” - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... f-the-deal

All he needs do is survive the year, I've no doubt he'll romp the election next month if he can just stand upright.

If anyone wants a free "share 30 days of unlimited access to The Washington Post with anyone you want", let me know.

Just at the moment I'm re-watching Wag the Dog and laughing my socks off. Twenty three years old and it's not dated at all.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by Snooz »

There were two photos released yesterday of Trump "working", showing him signing blank paper with his sharpie. One is in a wood paneled room, the other has a white metal background. One with suit jacket on, the other without. Someone pulled the metadata from the photos and determined they were 10 minutes apart, meaning the were staged. Same props, different locations.

Then there's Trump's pet doctor who's an osteopathic physician and clearly isn't qualified to lead the team treating a man with a viral disease. He can't keep his lies straight and when called on it, explained that he was just trying to keep his patient's spirits up. :roll:
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by Snooz »

Image
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

That looks very horrid.

I do hope you're getting a bit of fresh air now and then rather than complete indoors. Are there stables nearby? Could you take a horse through the byways for an hour or two?

I've been resisting the temptation to muse here. Would Michael Moore be Biden's Chief of Staff, stuff like that.

Here you are, check you're registered to vote. Monday is the last day for fixing it in a third of the states, if you've been dropped from the list.

https://iwillvote.com/
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by Snooz »

I'm still registered. Colorado hasn't had any people dropped unexpectedly that I know of but I still check periodically anyway.

That head thing is from one of my favorite horror movies. Pretty decent practical effects for 1982.

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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

And Colorado is an all-mail-in state? That's not a bad start.

Voting systems are really difficult to design. You can't have a verifiable system where a voter can check, on an independent site, that the vote recorded for them is what they voted, because if the voter can check then so can the government, or someone coercing the voter and checking they did as they were told, and it's no longer a a secret ballot. The only time you can check what you voted is at the moment of the vote itself.

If it's electronic voting, and you're given a checksum receipt wrapping your vote at the moment your vote is registered, then you can go back any time to the independent site to see that your vote was counted and that it wasn't tampered with. The only way you can trust that the checksum wraps your actual voting instruction is for the software to be open-source, and the system to guarantee the software version on the receipt.

We don't do any of that in the UK. What we do is leave the voting system to independent oversight and trust the integrity of the volunteers and overseers. Very few people here think the voting system or the electoral roll is ever tampered with, I certainly don't. The American approach of elected officials with party affiliation having local control of the roll and the process seems designed to be partisan. Colorado looks like a clean exception to brazen corruption elsewhere.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by magentaflame »

A top Republican senator has said that “democracy isn’t the objective” of America’s political system, sparking widespread outrage at a time when his party has been accused by Democrats of plotting voter suppression and questioning a peaceful transition of power in November’s election.

The Utah senator Mike Lee made the inflammatory declaration in an early morning tweet following Wednesday’s vice-presidential debate.

“Democracy isn’t the objective; liberty, peace, and prospefity are. We want the human condition to flourish. Rank democracy can thwart that,” he wrote, misspelling prosperity.

It followed a series of tweets he made during the debate between Mike Pence and Kamala Harris in which Lee claimed “We’re not a democracy” and questioned its role in US government.


Is America a democracy? If so, why does it deny millions the vote?

Lee, who is among a swath of Republicans who recently tested positive for coronavirus, wrote: ‘The word “democracy” appears nowhere in the Constitution, perhaps because our form of government is not a democracy. It’s a constitutional republic. To me it matters. It should matter to anyone who worries about the excessive accumulation of power in the hands of the few.’

He added: “Government is the official use of coercive force–nothing more and nothing less. The Constitution protects us by limiting the use of government force.”

His democracy tweet immediately prompted alarm, including from a number of former government officials.

Frank Figliuzzi, former FBI assistant director, tweeted: “‘Democracy isn’t the objective’. Our suspicions are confirmed.”

Walter Shaub, former director of the US office of government ethics, said: “People of my grandfather’s generation knew what to do about fascists. Now a member of Congress is urging us to join them. I wonder what made you hate America so much.”


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... -democracy
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by magentaflame »

So Trumps private army is into kidnapping now is it?


"Miranda Bryant reports for the Guardian on Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer’s press conference about a plot to kidnap her, revealed by the FBI today.

Speaking for the first time since it was announced that members of two militia groups had been charged with her attempted kidnap, Whitmer this afternoon said she knew the job would be hard when she took the oath of office nearly two years ago but she “never could have imagined anything like this.”

She started by thanking law enforcement, the “fearless” FBI agents and the “brave” Michigan state troopers as well as state attorney general Dana Nessel and the US attorneys for pursuing criminal charges that will “hopefully lead to convictions, bringing these sick and depraved men to justice.” "

So they were going to overthrow the Michigan government? Isn't that like overthrowing the "United States" government?
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by magentaflame »

When Donald Trump confirmed he was still taking a strong steroid for his coronavirus infection, he also claimed he wasn’t contagious and feels well enough to attend rallies.

The president’s doctors have not said he is no longer contagious and the White House has refused to answer questions that would show how long he has been positive.

“I’m back because I’m a perfect physical specimen,” Trump told Fox Business Network’s Maria Bartiromo.
Pelosi also spoke about Trump calling himself a “perfect physical specimen.”

“His disassociation from reality would be funny if it weren’t so deadly,” Pelosi said.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/liv ... a9a5fa6f87
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by magentaflame »

Trump has just tweeted . Apparently none of us would think he is a Senior citizen. Ummm? really? and he has medication given to him in the hospital that cured him.
Donald Trump has posted a new video from the White House, which begins with him addressing seniors and explaining that he is a senior. “I know you don’t know that, nobody knows that,” Trump said.

He has decided to continue claiming that the medicines he took were a “cure” for coronavirus, something absolutely no legitimate medical body is saying is true.

More for the seniors: “You’re not vulnerable, but they like to say the vulnerable, but you’re the least vulnerable, but for this one thing you are vulnerable and so am I.”

He also promises to make a medication he was taking free and available to everyone, though that could take awhile to happen, if it happens at all..........

Free and available to all? He wouldn't be meaning 'oxygen'?
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by magentaflame »

Six people have been been charged with a plot to kidnap the Michigan governor, Gretchen Whitmer, that involves links to a rightwing militia group, the Federal Bureau of Investigation announced.

Additionally another seven people were charged with plotting to target law enforcement and attack the state capitol building. The state attorney general, Dana Nessel, announced additional charges under Michigan’s anti-terrorism law. Seven men, all in custody, are linked to the militia group Wolverine Watchmen.

They are suspected of attempting to identify the homes of law enforcement officers to “target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a civil war”. They also planned and trained for an operation to attack the Michigan capitol building and to kidnap government officials, including the governor, Nessel said.The news sent shockwaves through a country facing one the most contentious elections in its history and already marred by accusations of voter suppression, civil unrest linked to police brutality and sometimes violent incidents and protests by heavily armed rightwingers.

The FBI said in an affidavit that the plot to kidnap Whitmer had involved reaching out to members of a Michigan militia. The criminal complaint states that the alleged plot involved her second home in northern Michigan.

“Several members talked about murdering ‘tyrants’ or ‘taking’ a sitting governor,” an FBI agent wrote in the document. “The group decided they needed to increase their numbers and encouraged each other to talk to their neighbors and spread their message.”

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The six men charged with plotting against Whitmer were arrested on Wednesday night and each faces up to life in prison. US attorney Andrew Birge called them “violent extremists”.

“All of us in Michigan can disagree about politics, but those disagreements should never, ever amount to violence. Violence has been prevented today,” the Detroit US attorney Matthew Schneider told reporters.

The affidavit was filed on Wednesday hours after FBI agents raided a home in Hartland Township, a community about an hour outside of Detroit.

The criminal complaint identified the six as Adam Fox, Ty Garbin, Kaleb Franks, Daniel Harris, Brandon Caserta, all of Michigan, and Barry Croft of Delaware.

Whitmer, a Democrat, has been the frequent target of protests by often heavily armed anti-lockdown groups who have launched numerous demonstrations against her efforts to control the spread of the coronavirus pandemic. She put major restrictions on personal movement throughout the state and on the economy, although many of those limits have been lifted.

Whitmer’s moves once caused Donald Trump to tweet “Liberate Michigan” as an exhortation to his supporters against her policy. As news of the foiled plot unfolded, many commentators fingered the president’s words as a contributing factor to the alleged conspiracy.


Former FBI agent and national security commentator Asha Rangappa asked pointedly: “Who knew that Trump and Fox News’ exhortations to “liberate Michigan” might lead to an attempt to harm the governor and lead a coup? Completely unforeseeable.”

Who could foresee this happening? Every man and his dog, I reckon. After the comments made after the 1st debate it was very foreseeable. Obviously the FBI thought so.










https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... en-whitmer
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by Snooz »

magentaflame wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:10 pm So Trumps private army is into kidnapping now is it?


"Miranda Bryant reports for the Guardian on Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer’s press conference about a plot to kidnap her, revealed by the FBI today.

Speaking for the first time since it was announced that members of two militia groups had been charged with her attempted kidnap, Whitmer this afternoon said she knew the job would be hard when she took the oath of office nearly two years ago but she “never could have imagined anything like this.”

She started by thanking law enforcement, the “fearless” FBI agents and the “brave” Michigan state troopers as well as state attorney general Dana Nessel and the US attorneys for pursuing criminal charges that will “hopefully lead to convictions, bringing these sick and depraved men to justice.” "

So they were going to overthrow the Michigan government? Isn't that like overthrowing the "United States" government?
Trump was complaining how she didn't thank him for "saving" her. From what I heard, she actually went to the White House to discuss this problem with him and AG Barr and they blew her off. Trump is like having a spoiled rotten 12 year old boy in charge of the country.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by magentaflame »

Snooz wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:15 pm
magentaflame wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:10 pm So Trumps private army is into kidnapping now is it?


"Miranda Bryant reports for the Guardian on Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer’s press conference about a plot to kidnap her, revealed by the FBI today.

Speaking for the first time since it was announced that members of two militia groups had been charged with her attempted kidnap, Whitmer this afternoon said she knew the job would be hard when she took the oath of office nearly two years ago but she “never could have imagined anything like this.”

She started by thanking law enforcement, the “fearless” FBI agents and the “brave” Michigan state troopers as well as state attorney general Dana Nessel and the US attorneys for pursuing criminal charges that will “hopefully lead to convictions, bringing these sick and depraved men to justice.” "

So they were going to overthrow the Michigan government? Isn't that like overthrowing the "United States" government?
Trump was complaining how she didn't thank him for "saving" her. From what I heard, she actually went to the White House to discuss this problem with him and AG Barr and they blew her off. Trump is like having a spoiled rotten 12 year old boy in charge of the country.
I don't even blame Trump anymore for the dumfuckery of America right now. the man is insane, he can't help it. I blame the rest of the Republican Party. What the heck is going on behind the scenes that they will then blame him for down the track? What are they up to? To allow their own party to look like fools? Whatever it is it must be hugely worth it. I don't think I'd want to be remembered as a member of that party under Trump in years to come.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by Bryn Mawr »

magentaflame wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:37 pm
Snooz wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:15 pm
magentaflame wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:10 pm So Trumps private army is into kidnapping now is it?


"Miranda Bryant reports for the Guardian on Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer’s press conference about a plot to kidnap her, revealed by the FBI today.

Speaking for the first time since it was announced that members of two militia groups had been charged with her attempted kidnap, Whitmer this afternoon said she knew the job would be hard when she took the oath of office nearly two years ago but she “never could have imagined anything like this.”

She started by thanking law enforcement, the “fearless” FBI agents and the “brave” Michigan state troopers as well as state attorney general Dana Nessel and the US attorneys for pursuing criminal charges that will “hopefully lead to convictions, bringing these sick and depraved men to justice.” "

So they were going to overthrow the Michigan government? Isn't that like overthrowing the "United States" government?
Trump was complaining how she didn't thank him for "saving" her. From what I heard, she actually went to the White House to discuss this problem with him and AG Barr and they blew her off. Trump is like having a spoiled rotten 12 year old boy in charge of the country.
I don't even blame Trump anymore for the dumfuckery of America right now. the man is insane, he can't help it. I blame the rest of the Republican Party. What the heck is going on behind the scenes that they will then blame him for down the track? What are they up to? To allow their own party to look like fools? Whatever it is it must be hugely worth it. I don't think I'd want to be remembered as a member of that party under Trump in years to come.
I think quite a lot of Republicans are embarrassed by him but see backing him as the way to stay in power.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by LarsMac »

Bryn Mawr wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:49 am
magentaflame wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:37 pm
Snooz wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:15 pm
magentaflame wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:10 pm So Trumps private army is into kidnapping now is it?


"Miranda Bryant reports for the Guardian on Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer’s press conference about a plot to kidnap her, revealed by the FBI today.

Speaking for the first time since it was announced that members of two militia groups had been charged with her attempted kidnap, Whitmer this afternoon said she knew the job would be hard when she took the oath of office nearly two years ago but she “never could have imagined anything like this.”

She started by thanking law enforcement, the “fearless” FBI agents and the “brave” Michigan state troopers as well as state attorney general Dana Nessel and the US attorneys for pursuing criminal charges that will “hopefully lead to convictions, bringing these sick and depraved men to justice.” "

So they were going to overthrow the Michigan government? Isn't that like overthrowing the "United States" government?
Trump was complaining how she didn't thank him for "saving" her. From what I heard, she actually went to the White House to discuss this problem with him and AG Barr and they blew her off. Trump is like having a spoiled rotten 12 year old boy in charge of the country.
I don't even blame Trump anymore for the dumfuckery of America right now. the man is insane, he can't help it. I blame the rest of the Republican Party. What the heck is going on behind the scenes that they will then blame him for down the track? What are they up to? To allow their own party to look like fools? Whatever it is it must be hugely worth it. I don't think I'd want to be remembered as a member of that party under Trump in years to come.
I think quite a lot of Republicans are embarrassed by him but see backing him as the way to stay in power.
Well, if they get him elected, then they can come up with their own impeachment, and trial, and toss him overboard, and Pence will be a good little dog.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by Snooz »

magentaflame wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:37 pm
Snooz wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:15 pm
magentaflame wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:10 pm So Trumps private army is into kidnapping now is it?


"Miranda Bryant reports for the Guardian on Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer’s press conference about a plot to kidnap her, revealed by the FBI today.

Speaking for the first time since it was announced that members of two militia groups had been charged with her attempted kidnap, Whitmer this afternoon said she knew the job would be hard when she took the oath of office nearly two years ago but she “never could have imagined anything like this.”

She started by thanking law enforcement, the “fearless” FBI agents and the “brave” Michigan state troopers as well as state attorney general Dana Nessel and the US attorneys for pursuing criminal charges that will “hopefully lead to convictions, bringing these sick and depraved men to justice.” "

So they were going to overthrow the Michigan government? Isn't that like overthrowing the "United States" government?
Trump was complaining how she didn't thank him for "saving" her. From what I heard, she actually went to the White House to discuss this problem with him and AG Barr and they blew her off. Trump is like having a spoiled rotten 12 year old boy in charge of the country.
I don't even blame Trump anymore for the dumfuckery of America right now. the man is insane, he can't help it. I blame the rest of the Republican Party. What the heck is going on behind the scenes that they will then blame him for down the track? What are they up to? To allow their own party to look like fools? Whatever it is it must be hugely worth it. I don't think I'd want to be remembered as a member of that party under Trump in years to come.
I'm not up on all of this but from what I understand, the "prosperity gospel" which has nothing to do with Christ, is huge over here with a lot of very wealthy people. And they're all conservatives with certain demands of their politicians. They wanted the Supreme Court filled with "their" justices to overrule Roe v Wade (legal abortions), gay rights, etc and they wanted that huge tax break for the ultra rich. They got all that with Trump thanks to McConnell. That's why they're pushing to get another conservative justice seated on the Supreme Court while they still can because it looks more and more that Trump has outlived his usefulness. And I really suspect that some of the Republican senators are compromised, like Lindsey Graham. They must have something pretty bad on him because he's completely ruined his reputation and career and it's possible he'll be voted out this year for being a Trump toady.
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LarsMac
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by LarsMac »

I'm to the point, I don't much care what happens to the Presidency this year.
I want to see some, like Graham and McConnell sent packing. I'd like to see the Dems own both houses.
It will be scary, though because they are going to screw things up "Bigly" if they get too much control of the Senate.
I hope for just a marginal majority.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
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Snooz
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by Snooz »

I need to stop paying so much attention to politics, I was happier before when I was only peripherally aware. Merrick Garland who?
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Snooz
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by Snooz »

The covid presidency.

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