The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by **spot** » Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:58 pm

I'm surprised they're releasing the popular vote - I thought they didn't four years ago.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:28 pm

https://www.politico.com/2020-election/results/iowa/?2

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:07 pm

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:20 pm

There is something about Buttigieg that just bothers me.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:33 pm

LarsMac;1530118 wrote: There is something about Buttigieg that just bothers me.Me too! I think he reminds me of a combination of Bill Clinton in his demeanor and posture and Obama with his matter of fact style of speaking. Both of them were BS artists and the fool me once....thing

After reading Blumenthal's piece and other articles, I see he and his network are very deliberate in a cunning sort of way. He should not become president. His clandestine type of snide is similar to George HW Bush's.

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:40 pm

Ahso!;1530121 wrote: Me too! I think he reminds me of a combination of Bill Clinton in his demeanor and posture and Obama with his matter of fact style of speaking. Both of them were BS artists and the fool me once....thing

After reading Blumenthal's piece and other articles, I see he and his network are very deliberate in a cunning sort of way. He should not become president. His clandestine type of snide is similar to George HW Bush's.
I was just going to sit back and wait for the Dems to sort things out, and go with whoever they put up, but I think that I might take a more active role, and work for Bernie around here. Things have changed and I may be stuck in the Colorado area for the next year or so. Might as well get into the fray.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:51 pm

LarsMac;1530124 wrote: I was just going to sit back and wait for the Dems to sort things out, and go with whoever they put up, but I think that I might take a more active role, and work for Bernie around here. Things have changed and I may be stuck in the Colorado area for the next year or so. Might as well get into the fray.That's good. Your country needs you!

Post by **spot** » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:34 pm

President Trump has been acquitted on the first impeachment charge, abuse of power, by a vote of of 52 to 48. All Democrats and one Republican - Mitt Romney - voted against the president.

One wonders how the other 52 sleep at night.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:51 pm

Sanders leads Iowa with the popular vote by somewhere between 2500-6000 votes and what's the title Politico shows? "Buttigieg and Sanders separated by razor-thin margin with Iowa count nearly done" Just so blatantly bias. They no longer care how obvious it is.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:05 pm

And this one: " Iowa results: Buttigieg and Sanders fight for first place"

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:53 pm

spot;1530149 wrote: President Trump has been acquitted on the first impeachment charge, abuse of power, by a vote of of 52 to 48. All Democrats and one Republican - Mitt Romney - voted against the president.

One wonders how the other 52 sleep at night.

I imagine quite sound.

Wonder how the Demos feel with the spectacular FAIL.

Three years of bogus claims with hopes and prayers to overturn his election.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:15 pm

tude dog;1530191 wrote: I imagine quite sound.

Wonder how the Demos feel with the spectacular FAIL.

Three years of bogus claims with hopes and prayers to overturn his election.There's no question that the Democratic establishment and corporate media are weasels and liars (including FOX), but so is tRump and the republican leadership. So, if you base your politics on resisting liars and their lies, why don't you support individuals who don't and have shown consistency in their policies?

I fail to see any legitimate reason that people such as yourself continue to support a president who has done nothing for you. Your entire argument is that you like him because Democrats don't. Very profound of you.

I could be wrong, of course. If I am, would you mind listing for us how tRump's policies have made your life better?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:36 am

tude dog;1530191 wrote: I imagine quite sound.

Wonder how the Demos feel with the spectacular FAIL.

Three years of bogus claims with hopes and prayers to overturn his election.

Iâ€™d say itâ€™s the system that has failed - how can you have a trial where witnesses are not allowed to be called and the jurors return a verdict depending on their political views rather than on the evidence that was not allowed to be presented?

Post by **spot** » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:53 am

The failure is that of the Constitution. The one thing America needs is a reboot.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:12 am

The US system and constitution works perfectly well for corporations. It is so full of holes for 21st-century living that a segment of our higher education system is predicated on teaching how to game it rather than strengthen and respect it.

I agree that America needs a reboot, but who's going to write it? Lobbyists and Christians?

Outside of hoping more of these Democratic Socialists can grab more control, I think the US is screwed.

I now see that two of Bloomberg's surrogates have been placed on the DNC's campaign committee.

Post by **spot** » Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:52 am

I think the problem is that you currently have a broken democracy in which far too many people are excluded from voting, and that the proportion of people in America who can vote will be forced down instead of up, and that the population at large consists primarily of sheep led by the media. Other than that, you're all very nice people.

Changing the system will take a coup, and the people who perform coups are never the ones who make things more democratic.

Perhaps you'll get lucky and lose a war with Mexico.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:17 am

Nate Silver's Five Thirty-Eight is predicting a 49 state sweep by Sanders. Nate Silver often appears to be in the pocket of establishment Democrats, so this is a surprise to me. Though that being said, it's what they are saying right now. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/20 ... -forecast/

Post by **spot** » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:24 am

It may well be the case that a Democrat on a limb is a far more attractive protest vote than a common or garden Democrat.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:46 am

Buttigieg has now been claiming that Sanders' campaign is receiving 'dark money', or as he says, 'black money'. What a moron and dirty player.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:47 am

New Hampshire's primary day. I'm dying to find out how Silver's prediction shakes out.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:03 am

Sanders thumps tRump in new polls. A national Reuters/Ipsos poll released Monday found Sen. Bernie Sanders leading President Donald Trump by 18 percentage points among independent voters in a hypothetical general election match-up, a result Sanders supporters viewed as evidence that the Vermont senator has the best chance of defeating the president in November.

According to the new survey (pdf), Sanders has the support of 46% of registered independent voters while Trump polled at 28% support. The poll also showed former Vice President Joe Biden, Pete Buttigieg, Michael Bloomberg, and Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) ahead of Trump among independents, but Sanders' lead was the largest.

"Bernie Sanders is undeniably the strongest candidate against Donald Trump," tweeted journalist Walker Bragman in response to the new survey. https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/ ... al-general

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:09 pm

Bernie Sanders wins New Hampshire primary and this is Politico's headline.

Post by **spot** » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:05 am

There's a lot of entrenched anti-Socialist feeling in America. We've even felt it on ForumGarden sometimes.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:40 am

Biden is as good as out. He never really was the viable candidate the media made him out to be. They based their front-runner status on campaign financing contributors rather than the number of actual supporters.

Warren is as good as out as well. She should drop out and get behind Sanders, the candidate she so often claimed to be closest to politically. That worked for her until she lied about the conversation she claims to have had with Sanders where she said he told her a female could not become president. That hurt her terribly, IMV. That reminded people of her debacle on the Native American issue she created for herself. Lastly, while Warren appeared well versed and wonky on issues, she came across as a bit whiny in the last couple of debates.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:49 am

spot;1530405 wrote: There's a lot of entrenched anti-Socialist feeling in America. We've even felt it on ForumGarden sometimes.That's a true misconception among Americans, that Sanders is socialist. He not even close to being socialist.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:39 am

Ahso!;1530195 wrote: I fail to see any legitimate reason that people such as yourself continue to support a president who has done nothing for you.

I don't know how you find that I support President Trump?

If had it happened I would have pointed out the folly of an impeachment attempt against President Obama.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:02 pm

tude dog;1530427 wrote: I don't know how you find that I support President Trump?

If had it happened I would have pointed out the folly of an impeachment attempt against President Obama.You praise his decisions and scoff at any and all criticism of him.

Is thinking you support him too far fetched in light of that?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:03 pm

Deval Patrick is out. I'm still trying to understand why he got in. Because he's black?

Post by **spot** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:32 am

I didn't even open "Joe Biden calls student 'lying, dog-faced pony soldier' at rally".

Is that the level things have reached? Has the man no dignity at all?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:21 am

spot;1530443 wrote: I didn't even open "Joe Biden calls student 'lying, dog-faced pony soldier' at rally".

Is that the level things have reached? Has the man no dignity at all?Apparently, this is a favorite kneejerk phrase he uses when he thinks someone is fibbing. He says it comes from John Wayne movies.

Biden definitely doesn't have discretionary filters. So much of his behavior is contrary to what one would expect from a presidential candidate. I suppose it only goes to show that these people are just people like us.

Buttigieg, otoh, is so well-rehearsed and polished that he sounds like he says so much when he actually says nothing at all of any substance. I hope the two of them get zeroed out by Klobuchar. Too bad the establishment democrats have attached koodie status to Gabbard; she'd make minced meat of Buttigieg. They had to do that to het to protect him after she clobbered him in her last debate appearance.

Buttigieg is so dangerous, It's impossible to overrstate, that.

Post by **spot** » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:19 am

I can see I'll have to look for the John Wayne movie.

Post by **spot** » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:42 am

What sort of God-forsaken rubbish healthcare facility is it that refuses a chap undergoing dialysis the use of a cardboard Trump as emotional support beside his treatment chair. This is just political bias where it has no possible place or excuse. It's a horrific scandalous abuse by people whose job should focus on helping people regain their health. Someone in charge of policy at Fresenius Kidney Care should be fired.

â€œIt was supposed to be an issue of safety infectious disease, which made no sense,â€ Eric Gibson said.

The Gibson family say they feel singled out since the center typically encourages patients to bring emotional support items.

Gibson said another patient brings in bubble wrap and pops it during her treatment, which he finds irritating.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... al-support

I'd have thought it was blatantly obvious that a cardboard Trump is an emotional crutch during a process so charged as dialysis. The man's very ill, he needs all the positive vibes he can reach out to. If the President does that for him then it's a medical win, not political campaigning.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:52 am

If Bernie Sanders reaches a super-majority in the Democracy for America endorsement poll, he will get their endorsement! Vote here.

https://2020.democracyforamerica.com/vo ... ie-sanders

Post by **spot** » Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:55 am

Ahso!;1530707 wrote: Vote here.

Curiously, although "The organization has more than a million members in the United States and internationally", votes from abroad are blocked by the site. Clearly there's something I've not understood.

The other oddity is that if you ask Progressive Democrats who they'd like to see contending with President Trump in November they'd mainly say Bernie Sanders, but if you put the same question to Republicans you'd quite likely get the same response. Or have I again failed to grasp an essential aspect?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:27 am

spot;1530708 wrote: The other oddity is that if you ask Progressive Democrats who they'd like to see contending with President Trump in November they'd mainly say Bernie Sanders, but if you put the same question to Republicans you'd quite likely get the same response. Or have I again failed to grasp an essential aspect?On its face, I guess Republicans believe moderate democrats will migrate over to Trump (and Republicans in general) if Sanders is the nominee. They might be correct for all I know. But that doesn't persuade me to abandon my preferred policy principles. The Democratic moderate candidates are nothing more than a nicer version of Trump who says they want to expand the ACA. That's not good enough in the minds of many true progressives. The status quo has to be overcome in order for change to occur.

All that said, Trump might be playing reverse psychology games. That's his style. Who knows or gives a damn, IMV, people should focus on voting their conscience on policy and nothing else.

Perhaps some of the moderates on the forum will chime in.

Post by **spot** » Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:03 pm

Ahso!;1530711 wrote: Perhaps some of the moderates on the forum will chime in.

You imply, sir, that I might not fall within that category. Where I come from, duels have been fought with less justification.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:44 pm

I've been here a long time, and I recall you claiming to be socialist. Though I was referring to moderate American voters. The ones who enjoy complaining that nothing ever changes and then go and vote for the status quo candidates. Kind of like Republicans did mistakenly with Trump and refuse to admit it and continue to buy into his phony rhetoric.

Post by **spot** » Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:49 pm

I'll settle for "moderate Stalinist" if that helps.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:09 pm

The NY Times and Washington Post go nuclear and do the intelligence agency's bidding by publishing unsourced fake stories that Sanders and Trump both are benefiting from Russian interference. What this is is a hail mary to try and stop Sanders. Unbelievable.

https://consortiumnews.com/2020/02/21/a ... g-sanders/

Post by **spot** » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:50 am

Ahso!;1530741 wrote: The NY Times and Washington Post go nuclear and do the intelligence agency's bidding by publishing unsourced fake stories that Sanders and Trump both are benefiting from Russian interference. What this is is a hail mary to try and stop Sanders. Unbelievable.

We could take this in tiny steps.

Firstly, would the Russians interfere in the American Presidential election? Of course they would, why on earth wouldn't they.

Name me - this is a serious request - name me a single election that the Americans haven't attempted to influence during your lifetime. Just one. I'll go and find you evidence that they did. It's called American Foreign Policy, it's what they do.

Now, either Americans are Exceptional and what they do is allowed but nobody else can do it, or if it's acceptable American practice then it's acceptable for other states to do the same back.

Has America ever tried to affect elections in, say, Russia? Is the pope a Catholic?

Is America Exceptional?

So. If Russia has indeed attempted to influence the American Presidential election, which candidates would they most want to affect. The front runners? The threats to the front runners?

And finally to the point. In what way can the front runners be held responsible in any way for this attempted interference.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:32 am

spot;1530744 wrote: So. If Russia has indeed attempted to influence the American Presidential election, which candidates would they most want to affect. The front runners? The threats to the front runners?Establishment members of the democratic party have now smeared only progressives within the party with Russian kooties, namely, Gabbard, and now Sanders. Another progressive who is outside the party is Jill Stein. Then tRump and his associates. As Joe Lauria points out in his piece, Sanders is left in a situation where if he calls out the fake news, he becomes associated with tRump and his tactics, and he can't deny something he has no control over, so that leaves him only one option and that is to rebuke Putin, which lends credibility to the accusation. It's disgusting. This is the trap that intelligence has set the dems up with by having them swear allegiance to the Russiagate narrative. This is how sophisticated our intelligence apparatus is spot;1530744 wrote: And finally to the point. In what way can the front runners be held responsible in any way for this attempted interference.It's guilt by alleged association. Most Americans buy into just about anything the intelligence community asserts through its various news agencies (NY Times - WaPo for two).

Who benefits from this? My guess is that the hope within the intelligence community is that Buttigieg does. If I'm right they are also working hard elsewhere promoting Buttigieg in the background.

All things being equal, if Bernie gets burned by this then Warren would be the most likely candidate his supporters would flock to. I think intelligence would want to see how Nevada pans out now, and where Buttigieg places after this accusation.

Another problem for Sanders is that even if he survives this, intelligence has now inserted itself inside his campaign and can have sway on the direction it takes to a larger degree.

Post by **spot** » Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:36 pm

So, where have we reached. We have two tickets now. Trump/Pence and Biden/Harris.

Kamala Harris is the youngest and brightest but even so, by the time Jack Kennedy was her age he'd been dead nine years.

We'll just have to see, I suppose. I have no idea so far which side will win.

I did very much appreciate Michelle Obama's piece at the Democrat Convention. Nobody else came close. She said what needed saying with complete moral authority, the rest of Day 1 was unconvincing hagiography and I don't hold out much hope for day 2.

Post by **spot** » Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:21 pm

I suggest the Democrats focus on calling out the vote for control of the Senate. If they can in fact generate a landslide then they could do a lot legislatively in the next couple of years.

Post by **spot** » Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:23 am

I've occasionally suggested that partisan factionalism is the reason extreme populists like Donald Trump get elected. Before you-all get around to giving him a second term, which you are presently headed for, perhaps I could post a snip from George Washington's Farewell Address. It highlights one of the priority issues America ought to clean up.

I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the state, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party, generally.

This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but, in those of the popular form, it is seen in its greatest rankness, and is truly their worst enemy.

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty.

Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind, (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight,) the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.

Randall Munroe tweaked the English of the whole piece, thirteen years ago, while sticking to the theme. Here's his vernacular version of that passage:

I just said that parties are no good, particularly regional ones. But lemme go a step further and say ALL parties are a bad idea.

Unfortunately, it’s pretty much human nature to gather into little factions like this. It’s worst in the freeest countries, and they suffer because of it.

Control goes back and forth between one party and another, and they just get more and more pissed, and we’ve seen that get really bad in the past. But it also leads to terrible, controlling government and general suckage. This gets the people more angry, they get behind one party leader or another, and that guy just takes that support and does whatever he wants, screwing up the country.

I’m not talking about anyone in particular here, but this isn’t necessarially too far off, and it’s always gonna be a threat, so keep an eye out.

This division distracts us, enfeebles the government, it gets everyone riled up with jealousy and false alarms, it pits us against each other, and eventually creates riots and stuff. It also opens the door to other countries getting a hand in our system, since they can reach in through the party structure, and then we just become their puppets.

https://blog.xkcd.com/2007/01/29/washin ... ernacular/

And here's what you end up voting for:

Disloyal review: Michael Cohen's mob hit on Trump entertains – but will it shift votes? The president’s fixer wanted to be a Goodfella but ended up taking a fall. His revenge is a tawdrily readable tell-all memoir.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ump-memoir

Post by **spot** » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:18 am

I notice the President has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for his work on peace in the Middle East. Are there votes in that?

Did anyone see "The top communications official at the powerful cabinet department in charge of combating the coronavirus made outlandish and false accusations on Sunday that career government scientists were engaging in “sedition” in their handling of the pandemic and that left-wing hit squads were preparing for armed insurrection after the election"?

C.D.C. scientists “haven’t gotten out of their sweatpants except for meetings at coffee shops” to plot “how they’re going to attack Donald Trump next,” Mr. Caputo said. “There are scientists who work for this government who do not want America to get well, not until after Joe Biden is president.”

A longtime Trump loyalist with no background in health care, Mr. Caputo, 58, was appointed by the White House to his post in April, at a time when the president’s aides suspected the health secretary, Alex M. Azar II, of protecting his public image instead of Mr. Trump’s. Mr. Caputo coordinates the messaging of an 80,000-employee department that is at the center of the pandemic response, overseeing the Food and Drug Administration, the C.D.C. and the National Institutes of Health.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/us/p ... virus.html

What leaves me floored is that the top top communications official at the Department of Health and Human Services can be so unhealthily obese. His state of mind is quite understandable given the administration he's trying to support, but surely he can afford an hour a day on a home treadmill instead of an oven-ready family meal pack in front of the den TV.

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:40 am

" tawdrily readable" ???
say THAT 10 times quickly.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:10 pm

spot wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:18 am I notice the President has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for his work on peace in the Middle East. Are there votes in that?

When the Noble people gave Barak Obama the prize they proved to be a political group without shame.

Post by **spot** » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:15 pm

spot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:52 am I think the problem is that you currently have a broken democracy in which far too many people are excluded from voting, and that the proportion of people in America who can vote will be forced down instead of up, and that the population at large consists primarily of sheep led by the media. Other than that, you're all very nice people.

Out of interest, is anyone else reeding How Trump Stole 2020 by Greg Palast?

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:37 pm

spot wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:15 pm
spot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:52 am I think the problem is that you currently have a broken democracy in which far too many people are excluded from voting, and that the proportion of people in America who can vote will be forced down instead of up, and that the population at large consists primarily of sheep led by the media. Other than that, you're all very nice people.
Out of interest, is anyone else reeding How Trump Stole 2020 by Greg Palast?

uH, actually no.
Just did a quick review of what it is all about he is picking on the wrong candidate at the wrong time.

Trump has made a big deal about voter fraud.

Post by **spot** » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:00 am

tude dog wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:37 pm
spot wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:15 pm
spot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:52 am I think the problem is that you currently have a broken democracy in which far too many people are excluded from voting, and that the proportion of people in America who can vote will be forced down instead of up, and that the population at large consists primarily of sheep led by the media. Other than that, you're all very nice people.
Out of interest, is anyone else reeding How Trump Stole 2020 by Greg Palast?
uH, actually no.
Just did a quick review of what it is all about he is picking on the wrong candidate at the wrong time.

Trump has made a big deal about voter fraud.

Indeed he has. I'd suggest he's pre-emptively striking. I'd encourage you to read the book, it's not fake news, it's very solid evidence-based research with a lot of Freedom of Information requests to back it up.