Early warning signs of fascism.

Mark Aspam · Post by **Mark Aspam** » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:43 am

gmc;1514660 wrote: Nope not yet, plan to next year. Well, if you should find yourself in the twin cities of Champaign and Urbana, Illinois, we would be delighted to take you to lunch at our favorite restaurant. Let me know in advance and I will private-message you the phone number.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:14 pm

Mark Aspam;1514695 wrote: Well, if you should find yourself in the twin cities of Champaign and Urbana, Illinois, we would be delighted to take you to lunch at our favorite restaurant. Let me know in advance and I will private-message you the phone number.

Was thinking of a week in new york. What i want to do is see places like death valley, yosemite, grand canyon.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:22 pm

gmc;1514706 wrote: Was thinking of a week in new york. What i want to do is see places like death valley, yosemite, grand canyon.You'll have to go to the western part of the US for all that. NY is cool too though.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:57 pm

gmc;1514660 wrote:

Nope not yet, plan to next year. If you're coming through my part of Pa you're welcome to bed here. I can hang out for a few hours at least. I'd like to meet you. I'm sure my family would like to as well.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:14 am

Ahso!;1514709 wrote: If you're coming through my part of Pa you're welcome to bed here. I can hang out for a few hours at least. I'd like to meet you. I'm sure my family would like to as well.

Where's northeast? to me that meand aberdeen to spot and bruv it's probably newcastle

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:00 am

gmc;1514721 wrote: Where's northeast? to me that meand aberdeen to spot and bruv it's probably newcastle

The Northeast to me is an area not a town, Northumberland and surrounding areas.

NE USA is an area too I think but PA is Pennsylvania, within traveling distance of New York ?

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:36 am

Bruv;1514722 wrote: The Northeast to me is an area not a town, Northumberland and surrounding areas.

NE USA is an area too I think but PA is Pennsylvania, within traveling distance of New York ?

For the record, both PA and NY are in the Northeast. And eastern PA is easy travel from NY City.

A week in NY City would be interesting, but it would take bit of travel to see Death Valley, Yosemite, and the Grand Canyon. They are a couple of thousand miles from NY

There is easily a week's travel to cover the three of those.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:44 pm

It's pretty big country !!!

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:49 pm

Sorry, I assumed you knew what PA meant. Use your GPS - the zip code is 17603.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:15 pm

LarsMac;1514725 wrote: For the record, both PA and NY are in the Northeast. And eastern PA is easy travel from NY City.

A week in NY City would be interesting, but it would take bit of travel to see Death Valley, Yosemite, and the Grand Canyon. They are a couple of thousand miles from NY

There is easily a week's travel to cover the three of those.

If I was doing the latter I would be planning for three or four weeks and touring.

Funny how some songs never really date

Glad to see lebour singing tne red flag again but as a scot jerusalem gives me the dry boak. hardly conducive to keeping the union together- english nationalism the political force that dare not speak it's name.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:05 pm

Ahso!;1514731 wrote: Sorry, I assumed you knew what PA meant. Use your GPS - the zip code is 17603.

I've been there.

A nice area.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:05 am

gmc;1514733 wrote: Glad to see lebour singing tne red flag again but as a scot jerusalem gives me the dry boak. hardly conducive to keeping the union together- english nationalism the political force that dare not speak it's name.

TRANSLATION

Dry Boak = Nausea, retching.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:27 pm

I went to LA once. Hated it. Too hot, and all concrete.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:24 am

I definitely agree that one of the key methods of modern fascists is to try to discredit any source of reliable information. Hitler and Goebbels wrote the book on this one, others have refined it since and control of information is THE crucial factor. Look at how Davis won't release the key parts of the Brexit Papers and May won't say how much the brexit bill will be. Steps on the same road Johnson and Trump are further down.

I wonder if the investigation of Trump's Russian links and Putin's interference in the brexit referendum, the support of various billionaires and Trump's recent tax cuts for the average middle class billionaire are all linked. Not as a formal plot - at least not to start with - but as these different groups realised they had a shared agenda they began to co-operate more closely.

Look at the way Trump and Putin are both happy to use far right racist groups in this country to further their agenda. Both want the EU weakened and the UK opened up to their organisations without EU regulation or interference. Billionaire businessmen see opportunity - Murdoch wants us out the EU because our leaders invite him to Downing St and the EU leaders ignore him. Big investors follow brexiter Redwood's advice to move their money out of the UK for a few years while it crashes - plenty of opportunity for them to move back after the situation has stabilised and they can buy back what they sold and more at a fraction of the cost, and both the US election and the EU referendum were big public events around which they could coalesce and provide mutual support.

So I wonder if in fact Putin, Trump and brexit are all part of the same international movement by the modern far right. This looks as if it is about increasing the power of already very powerful individuals.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:07 pm

Power or war?. Each country seems to me land grabbing/closing its borders or controlling them more.

Somethings up and its not a penis.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:49 pm

Look at the way Trump and Putin are both happy to use far right racist groups in this country to further their agenda.

Youi might also add how thgeyare both using the religious right pandering to their prejudices in order to get their support. It's depressing the number if ameriucans who believe trump is an instrument of god.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:34 am

Power or war?. Each country seems to me land grabbing/closing its borders or controlling them more.

Somethings up and its not a penis.

What's the relationship between War and Power? I agree something is happening but I don't know what. I'm trying to put together a jigsaw from a set of disparate pieces some of which may not even be part of this picture. This is the best I can do with the information I have at present, most of which is speculative.

You might also add how they are both using the religious right pandering to their prejudices in order to get their support. It's depressing the number of americans who believe trump is an instrument of god.

My suspicion is that the American far religious right blends largely with our racist right - much the same sort of people in both, lots in common, both regard Trump as a hero. I'm sure there are members of the religious right who are no more than religious and Republican, but you do get the impression that a lot would be happy with white pointy hoods.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:30 pm

Racism is a religious construct used to justify slavery of people who are of a different colour. You can almost trace it's development but is you want some food for thought have a look at how many of the early christian saints were black or of mixed race. The most famous was st maurice patron saint of soldiers amongst others - he gave his name to san moritz.

Religion and state power have been hand in hand for generations it must have been handy to have people believe regicide was a crime against god.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:57 pm

Facism over Democracy - when you follow a policy to steadily eliminate those who would most likely vote for the Opposition. That is to say, the needy, the disabled, the poverty stricken. Drive them to suicide. Kill them off through denying them the welfare they need. Evict them from their homes. Then bribe those that would vote for you, by giving massive tax breaks & giving Bargain Basement prices to buy up Public Services. It's nothing more than Political Class Genocide.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:40 am

You are seriously accusing the governments of the last what? 40 years? of a deliberate policy of mass murder against its own people? That Tory and Labour and Coalition governments set out to kill the entire working class?

Must be a very, very long term policy.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:56 pm

Sorry cloddy....i agree with four part .

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:48 am

I want to be clear on this: You and 4part think there is a deliberate policy - as in intended, planned, organised and carried out - by the Conservatives and Labour working together over what? 50-100 years with assistance from the SNP and Lib Dems and DUP etc parties to kill the working class in the UK? Not metaphorically, literally - murder them all? (I include driven to suicide as murder)

Ok, I've a low opinion of tories but only a minority even of them do I regard as capable of that level of moral degradation. Some have even shown spines.

I'll need some serious evidence. Can you provide any? Bodies piled in the streets? Mothers of the Disappeared demonstrating? Anything to back so vast a claim?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:26 am

Part of the problem is that the left have achieved their main aims -universal suffrage, the welfare state nationalised industries- althought the latter didn't really work, some industries are too important to be left to british leyland et al should have been left to fail but that's a whole debate in it's own.

We've also had a succesion of governments that don't buy in to the idea that government is there in part to help people when thatcher sold off all the councilm houses it was ideologically driven and labour gave up the fight recently we have had new labour

starting the privatisation of the NHS and advocating telling the electorate what they want to hear so they get in to power and be able to do good. Tony Bliar got elected on the back of john smith and he and gordon brown treated the party like their own personal fiefdoms losing membership numbers as a result. Corbyn terrifies the tories because he's tapping in to a part of our electorate that has lost interest in politics, if he came out and said he would support a second referendum I suspect they would wipe out the tories.

I don't think there is a conspiracy just the same old arguments and interested parties in new guise and a tory party that has a sense of entitlemenet no one else shares.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... itics-live

There is somethinmg wrong imo opinion with people who wamnt to follow a string leader no matter what. What happened to being your own man/woman/person

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:32 pm

Clodhopper;1515760 wrote: I want to be clear on this: You and 4part think there is a deliberate policy - as in intended, planned, organised and carried out - by the Conservatives and Labour working together over what? 50-100 years with assistance from the SNP and Lib Dems and DUP etc parties to kill the working class in the UK? Not metaphorically, literally - murder them all? (I include driven to suicide as murder)

Ok, I've a low opinion of tories but only a minority even of them do I regard as capable of that level of moral degradation. Some have even shown spines.

I'll need some serious evidence. Can you provide any? Bodies piled in the streets? Mothers of the Disappeared demonstrating? Anything to back so vast a claim?

I am not saying Labour have anything to do with this scandal of Facism. This is entirely a Tory matter.

The evidence is clear. It has been published - although it did require a few High Court Injunctions to releae it under Freedom Of Information Act. It shows increased numbers of deaths, both by physical cause & suicide, due to denied health care & benefits. Families, including children evicted onto the streets because of not being able to pay their rents because of being denied payments of Universal Credit for 6 weeks or more. This means that once homeless they are not eligible to vote, as they have to be resident at an address.

Parents having to rely on Food Banks to feed their children - and these are ones who are in work as well. There is currently a rising epidemic of children with rickets in the UK, due to malnourishment. Parents are also dying off because they are going hungry so that their children can eat.

Registering to vote is also being made more complex. Whereas it used to be possible for the head of the household to register all those able to vote on behalf of the household, this now has to be done individually. This means that those of more denslely populated properties (generally more left wing biased) are less likely to register to vote.

Electoral Boundary changes are being made to make more densely populated areas have fewer MPs in proportion per capita, as these are the areas which are more likely to be Labour.

Tories have consistently voted to cut Welfare benefits. The have voted to cut entitlement to Disability benefits. They have voted against making Private Landlords having to make homes fit for Human Habitation. They have shown contempt for the survivors off Grenfell - most of whom have yet to be rehoused. They continue to work towards selling off the NHS in favour of Privatisation, making it unaffordable for the lower classes. There is also a much higher life expectancy among the higher incomes than that of the lower incomes.

View it as you will, this is a Political Genocide by stealth. Kill off those who would vote against you, or make them ineligible to vote, and give those who would be more likley to vote for you greater representation.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:20 pm

Clodhopper;1515760 wrote: I want to be clear on this: You and 4part think there is a deliberate policy - as in intended, planned, organised and carried out - by the Conservatives and Labour working together over what? 50-100 years with assistance from the SNP and Lib Dems and DUP etc parties to kill the working class in the UK? Not metaphorically, literally - murder them all? (I include driven to suicide as murder)

Ok, I've a low opinion of tories but only a minority even of them do I regard as capable of that level of moral degradation. Some have even shown spines.

I'll need some serious evidence. Can you provide any? Bodies piled in the streets? Mothers of the Disappeared demonstrating? Anything to back so vast a claim?

I cant speak for britain you know that.....but i do notice whats happening here.... im losing count of the number of new prisons being built here since they privatised the system.

The amount of homelss in the streets is unprecedented..

The degradation of all our social justice, hospital systems,

That **** doesnt affect the rich.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:07 am

magentaflame;1515885 wrote: I cant speak for britain you know that.....but i do notice whats happening here.... im losing count of the number of new prisons being built here since they privatised the system.

The amount of homelss in the streets is unprecedented..

The degradation of all our social justice, hospital systems,

That **** doesnt affect the rich.

Even the Prison Service here is being sold off to G4S.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:43 am

FourPart;1515872 wrote: I am not saying Labour have anything to do with this scandal of Facism. This is entirely a Tory matter.

The evidence is clear. It has been published - although it did require a few High Court Injunctions to releae it under Freedom Of Information Act. It shows increased numbers of deaths, both by physical cause & suicide, due to denied health care & benefits. Families, including children evicted onto the streets because of not being able to pay their rents because of being denied payments of Universal Credit for 6 weeks or more. This means that once homeless they are not eligible to vote, as they have to be resident at an address.

Parents having to rely on Food Banks to feed their children - and these are ones who are in work as well. There is currently a rising epidemic of children with rickets in the UK, due to malnourishment. Parents are also dying off because they are going hungry so that their children can eat.

Registering to vote is also being made more complex. Whereas it used to be possible for the head of the household to register all those able to vote on behalf of the household, this now has to be done individually. This means that those of more denslely populated properties (generally more left wing biased) are less likely to register to vote.

Electoral Boundary changes are being made to make more densely populated areas have fewer MPs in proportion per capita, as these are the areas which are more likely to be Labour.

Tories have consistently voted to cut Welfare benefits. The have voted to cut entitlement to Disability benefits. They have voted against making Private Landlords having to make homes fit for Human Habitation. They have shown contempt for the survivors off Grenfell - most of whom have yet to be rehoused. They continue to work towards selling off the NHS in favour of Privatisation, making it unaffordable for the lower classes. There is also a much higher life expectancy among the higher incomes than that of the lower incomes.

View it as you will, this is a Political Genocide by stealth. Kill off those who would vote against you, or make them ineligible to vote, and give those who would be more likley to vote for you greater representation.

And rather than attribute this to the effects of trying as a country to spend no more than we earn, which we haven't for decades and which leads to less money for Education, Police, Pensions, Defence, Welfare, the NHS, everything that matters and explains what you see, you leap to this wild conspiracy theory. Crazed.

That for a number of years after brexit - could be as little as five, could be for a hundred or more - we are going to be poorer WILL make this situation worse, and that we are going to be poorer is the opinion of the ultra rich and far right people like Redwood, the people you voted in support of by voting brexit. It doesn't matter to them - they will move their investments abroad while this country tanks, then move back in and buy again when property prices and the Â£ have fallen.

So what you voted FOR when you voted in support of these people by voting brexit is in fact everything you thought you were voting AGAINST. The things you complain about in your post WILL get worse for at least a few years which gives investment opportunities for people who can move money around the world. The far right support brexit both in Parliament and in the openly racist ultra right wing groups like the one Trump retweeted propaganda from. (The far left also support brexit because they couldn't introduce their socialist paradise under EU rules any more than the far right could create their right wing one)

In short, if you don't like the far right, why did you vote with them and in support of them by voting brexit?

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:43 am

FourPart;1515887 wrote: Even the Prison Service here is being sold off to G4S.

You guys too? There pay is **** too....theyve been undercutting every other security company and people i know personally have lost wages. So prison guards join the working poor.....amnd thats never a good thing.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:52 am

magentaflame;1515906 wrote: You guys too? There pay is **** too....theyve been undercutting every other security company and people i know personally have lost wages. So prison guards join the working poor.....amnd thats never a good thing.

Isn't Capitalism wonderful?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:48 pm

LarsMac;1515908 wrote: Isn't Capitalism wonderful?

What we are heading towards is not capitalism. Under a truly capitalist system the likes of amazon would not be allowed to continue operating, they pay no taxes yet take advantage ofr the education and health systems to educate and look after their minimum wage worjforce yet pay nothing towards providing said services. Microsoft and google would be hauled through the courts and penalised for unfair business practices to try and block comperitors unstead of competing fairly. Internet freedom would be a given instead it looks like that is gping to be given over to whoever is rishest and can prevent competitors getting in. Financial services are just what the same implies they are a SERVICE industry and what they provide services to is agriculture industry yet we all seem to have bought in to the myth that a banker can be a wealth creator when in realkity they are parasites, useful in a healthy body but if they take over the body dies. What banker ever created an industry?

Capitalism isn't wonderful neither is socialism you need a balance between the two, fascism leads to misery all round. Goivernment exists to protect the weak from the strong while conspiracy theorists worry about the govenment the real enemy is sneaking about behind them.

Robber barons are not a new phenomenon they're just more subtle nowadays

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:50 pm

magentaflame;1515906 wrote: You guys too? There pay is **** too....theyve been undercutting every other security company and people i know personally have lost wages. So prison guards join the working poor.....amnd thats never a good thing.

I would assume it is public information. Just how much do they earn?

Gee wizz, is this what it is now?

Prison Officer

Looks to me like the taxpayer is getting the shaft. G-jobs, can't beat it.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:07 pm

I consider Brexit to be a Party Neutral thing, considering both sides across the house officially supported Remain. Millions of Tax Payers Pounds were ploughed into promoting Anti-Leave Propaganda (later deemed to have been illegal, although no action was ever taken against themselves - surprise, surprise). Just think what the outcome of the Referendum might have been if the campaigning had been more representative of the Public view.

The situation of furthering Austerity has nothing to do with Brexit as it began long before the Referendum, yet the Remoaners still blame it all on Brexit. When the Tories called the Referendum in the first place, with the intention of getting a mandate to support their Remain position they were so certain of the vote going to Remain that they never even made any contingency plan. Now they're blaming Labour for making such contingency plans for a possible run on the Pound - hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst.

May was so arrogantly certain that a General Election would result in a landslide victory & boost her majority, thus increasing her ability to take absolute control over everything. She's already set precedent of blatantly ignoring the very elements of why we have the 2nd House, by getting Bills rejected, then sending them through again unamended so that eventually the Lords are unable to oppose them any further. This goes against Democracy, but demonstrates more of a Dictatorship.

The facts of the situation do not reflect any sort of conspiracy, as it is so in -your-face. Terminally ill people are being told they are "Fit For Work" & having their disability benefits taken away by administrators posing as "Health Specialists". Statisitcs show that 70% of appeals raised are successful, but that, of course, doesn't cover those who don't get to raise appeals, or those who die before getting a chance to do so, or to reach an outcome.

Those wh cannot afford to pay their rent are kicked out on the street, meaning that they no longer are entitled to vote due to not being resident at any address. The Social Housing they previously occupied is then demolished & turned into Luxury Appartment Accommodation. Which do you think are more likley to vote Tory?

They oppose Bills requiring Private Landlords to make properties Fit For Human Habitation - and the majority of those who voted against co-incidentally happen to be Private Landlords themselves.

The Tory Government, after having lost their majority then blatantly bribe the political wing of a Far Right Terrorist Organisation to back them up in order to cling onto power.

This is nothing to do with Conspiracist Theories - it's there for all to see.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:24 am

UK suicide rate shows largest drop for 20 years:

UK suicide rate shows largest drop for 20 years - BBC News

Office for National Statistics shows a 3% drop (233 fewer deaths) in 2016 compared to 2015. Put down to better intervention techniques.

Doesn't back your case.

The irony of your post above is that by voting brexit you voted in support of all the things you say you want to stop. All the things you describe show a system screaming out for more cash, more people, more time. As a result of brexit there is already less money around than there would be if we voted to Remain.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/th ... spartanntp

There is now less money than there would have been. Nearly Â£350,000,000 a week at present, according to the FT.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:55 am

Clodhopper;1515957 wrote: UK suicide rate shows largest drop for 20 years:

UK suicide rate shows largest drop for 20 years - BBC News

Office for National Statistics shows a 3% drop (233 fewer deaths) in 2016 compared to 2015. Put down to better intervention techniques.

Doesn't back your case.

The irony of your post above is that by voting brexit you voted in support of all the things you say you want to stop. All the things you describe show a system screaming out for more cash, more people, more time. As a result of brexit there is already less money around than there would be if we voted to Remain.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/th ... spartanntp

There is now less money than there would have been. Nearly Â£350,000,000 a week at present, according to the FT.

There was always going to be far less money around - we are a nation of importers and have been since WWII, the money markets see us as less competitive outside of the EU and therefore the exchange rate dived the moment we came out. This make our imports more expensive and drives up inflation (no matter that our exports are cheaper and we therefore sell more because the uplift in income is on a far different scale to the increase in expenditure) and our standard of living is consequently reduced.

This is not something that will change anytime soon - it is out of our hands as it's the money markey's perception and that relies very little on fact, more on expectation and it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:04 am

I am NOT in this discussion............................but.....suicide rate drop in times of hardship.......ironically.

That is why, off the top of my head (might be wrong) Scandinavian countries where quality of life is highest, have the highest rates.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:11 am

Bryn Mawr;1515960 wrote: There was always going to be far less money around - we are a nation of importers and have been since WWII, the money markets see us as less competitive outside of the EU and therefore the exchange rate dived the moment we came out. This make our imports more expensive and drives up inflation (no matter that our exports are cheaper and we therefore sell more because the uplift in income is on a far different scale to the increase in expenditure) and our standard of living is consequently reduced.

This is not something that will change anytime soon - it is out of our hands as it's the money markey's perception and that relies very little on fact, more on expectation and it's a self fulfilling prophecy.

True enough, but the FT article seemed to me to be taking that into account and saying we're nearly Â£350 mill a week worse of now in addition, than we would have been if we had not voted brexit.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:15 am

Bruv;1515962 wrote: I am NOT in this discussion............................but.....suicide rate drop in times of hardship.......ironically.

That is why, off the top of my head (might be wrong) Scandinavian countries where quality of life is highest, have the highest rates.

Off the top of my head, I think you are right iirc but that it was tied to the long dark winters...not sure I'm right either. Would be interesting to get figures from the old USSR countries but I doubt they are accessible if they exist...Canada? (just for comparison)

chuckle: A quick look at wiki says we're both wrong:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... icide_rate

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:05 am

Clodhopper;1515965 wrote: Off the top of my head, I think you are right iirc but that it was tied to the long dark winters...not sure I'm right either. Would be interesting to get figures from the old USSR countries but I doubt they are accessible if they exist...Canada? (just for comparison)

chuckle: A quick look at wiki says we're both wrong:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... icide_rate

Interesting to note that in Greenland, the country with the highest suicide rate in the world, the rate is high during the summer months and drops during winter.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:07 am

Bryn Mawr;1515972 wrote: Interesting to note that in Greenland, the country with the highest suicide rate in the world, the rate is high during the summer months and drops during winter.

I met a guy from there, once. He said that Mosquitoes and Black Flies are the reason for that.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:45 am

:yh_bye:yh_oooooLarsMac;1515977 wrote: I met a guy from there, once. He said that Mosquitoes and Black Flies are the reason for that.

If they're bad enough to drive you to suicide then keep me outa there :yh_ooooo :yh_bye

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:45 pm

Clodhopper;1515957 wrote: UK suicide rate shows largest drop for 20 years:

UK suicide rate shows largest drop for 20 years - BBC News

Office for National Statistics shows a 3% drop (233 fewer deaths) in 2016 compared to 2015. Put down to better intervention techniques.

Doesn't back your case.

Who controls the Office for National Statistics? Oh, yes - the Government.

The figures compiled by the Samaritans tell a different story.

https://www.samaritans.org/about-us/our ... ut-suicide

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:52 pm

FourPart;1516008 wrote: Who controls the Office for National Statistics? Oh, yes - the Government.

The figures compiled by the Samaritans tell a different story.

https://www.samaritans.org/about-us/our ... ut-suicide

I don't agree that the ONS is "controlled" by the government - quite often the government are embarrassed by the figures the ONS produce

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:16 pm

FourPart;1516008 wrote: Who controls the Office for National Statistics? Oh, yes - the Government.

The figures compiled by the Samaritans tell a different story.

https://www.samaritans.org/about-us/our ... ut-suicide

Actually, the Samaritans' figures are similar if not identical. They just analyse them differently for slightly different purposes, which is reasonable enough. There is no contradiction that I can see.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:35 pm

suicide dropped here after the gun law changes and more help lines were initiated. Maybe that's what's happening over your way too?

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:49 pm

As far as Fascism goes.... take a read of this. It compares where Australia is now in comparison to Nazi Germany. and it's got some funny bits in it too.

https://theaimn.com/so-how-fascist-is-a ... right-now/

excerpt

Despite the Liberal party promising a government who would â€œrestore accountability and improve transparency measures to be more accountable to youâ€œ, they have arguably been doing the exact opposite. Hereâ€™s just some of the things they have done to limit our access to information about what is really going on:

Classifying key information as an â€˜operationalâ€™ or a â€˜security matterâ€™ â€“ A whole swag of truths have been locked up this way â€“ never to see the light of day â€“ particularly those around â€˜Stopping the Boatsâ€™.

Threatening to lock up whistle blowers who reveal problems â€“ this started in 2014 with the passing of legislation allowing the government to jail both whistleblowers and journalists (for five to ten years) for exposing errors made by Australian security agencies. More recently, in 2015, the hastily passed Border Force Protection Act prohibits medicos from reporting sexual and other forms of abuse, as well as Navy and Customers staff from telling us if asylum seekers die at sea.

Effectively hobbling Freedom of Information â€“ this started shortly after the Abbott Governmentâ€™s election, when they tightened Freedom of Information procedures, to make it more difficult to request and obtain information. They then starved the Freedom of Information office of funds, so that staff resigned and the Commissioner was left working out of his house. He too finally gave up a few weeks back and resigned.

Eliminating Government agencies that provide factual information which may contradict their policy positions â€“ this is particularly true of climate change, where the Climate Council was defunded, and the Climate Change Authority came under attack. The Climate Change Authority was saved by the Senate, but the Government now appears to be killing it by stealth by cutting funding to it. In the meantime, apparently there are sufficient funds for a Wind Commissioner.

Controlling Internet Content â€“ this may turn out to be nothing, but the recently passed Copyright Amendment Online Infringement Bill could allow the government to restrict what content we see. While the Billâ€™s stated goal is to sop the pirating of videos, the actual language in the Bill could allow a court to block distribution of anything that is protected by copyright â€“ Wikileaks for example.

Discrediting those that speak the truth â€“ there are a few examples of this, but probably the most prominent is the attack on Human Rights Commissioner â€“ Gillian Triggs. The extent of the attacks on her â€“ as a reputable international lawyer â€“ is incomprehensible. They are at best bullying, and at worst a shameless attempt to influence an independent commission.

Distorting the truth to suit their needs â€“ most recently this happened when the Abbott Government claimed that their proposal to allow the Government to bypass the judicial system and strip citizenship from people, was â€œprecisely what was recommended by the former independent national security monitor Bret Walkerâ€ when in fact it was the exact opposite, and he had misquoted Walker out of context.

When looked at as a whole, these actions may not be sufficient to confirm a conspiracy by the Abbott government to keep the truth from the Australian public, but they certainly suggest a pattern of devaluing the truth, and an intention to control what information the Australian public does and does not see in service of their own political needs.

Interesting ....isn't it.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:24 pm

and YOU TOO can take the test as to whether you would support a fascist government

https://openpsychometrics.org/tests/RWAS/

These are the results of the Right-wing Authoritarianism Scale.

Your score for right-wing authoritarianism was 18.75%. Higher scores indicate more right-wing authoritarianism.

Right-wing authoritarians want society and social interactions structured in ways that increase uniformity and minimize diversity. In order to achieve that, they tend to be in favour of social control, coercion, and the use of group authority to place constraints on the behaviours of people such as political dissidents and ethnic minorities. These constraints might include restrictions on immigration, limits on free speech and association and laws regulating moral behaviour. It is the willingness to support or take action that leads to increased social uniformity that makes right-wing authoritarianism more than just a personal distaste for difference. Right-wing authoritarianism is characterized by obedience to authority, moral absolutism, racial and ethnic prejudice, and intolerance and punitiveness towards dissidents and deviants. In parenting, right-wing authoritarians value children's obedience, neatness, and good manners.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:33 am

magentaflame;1516081 wrote: suicide dropped here after the gun law changes and more help lines were initiated. Maybe that's what's happening over your way too?

Not sure there were any relevant gun law changes, but there was a suggestion that "better intervention techniques" played a part. More help lines might be a part of that but I don't really know.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:45 pm

Every single time a catastrophy happens or a story on the news, or a media discussion, the same thing is said over and over again. " if you or anyone you know etc etc " then a list of help lines. Plus we have " Are you okay" day. Which has made business and corporations more aware of mental illness and workers troubles.

Post by **LarsMac** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:00 pm

magentaflame;1516083 wrote: and YOU TOO can take the test as to whether you would support a fascist government

https://openpsychometrics.org/tests/RWAS/

These are the results of the Right-wing Authoritarianism Scale.

Your score for right-wing authoritarianism was 15.91%. Higher scores indicate more right-wing authoritarianism.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:05 pm

I find the questions too absolute. the questions on protesters being scoundrels is sort of off, because what if those scoundrels are right wing nazi protesters?