The Presidential Election of 2020

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Snooz
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by Snooz »

I just saw that!
President Trump announced on Monday that he has replaced Defense Secretary Mark Esper with a new acting secretary, Christopher Miller, who had been confirmed by the Senate as the director of the National Counterterrorism Center. Esper gave an interview to Military Times ahead of his firing saying, "Who's going to come in behind me? It's going to be a real 'yes man.' And then God help us."
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

I'm not sure I can think of a two-month plan which would keep the White House in the newspapers, but then I don't have a team working on one either.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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Trump's one talent is dominating the news cycle.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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Would he not rather go back to his Florida palace and party while his lawyers fleece whatever fund they have access to?
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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[media]Image[/media]
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

The op-ed is well worth reeding end to end.
In truth, it has been a long time coming. For a long time, America has been to the world what Trump has been to America – a bull in a china shop. Rich, entitled, brash, over-confident and often downright stupid, since the end of the cold war the country has traipsed around the world, breaking stuff as it went, throwing its weight around, and playing fast and loose with cherished global norms. Its journalists and moviemakers (and president) rarely missed the opportunity to stress just what an uncivilized “shithole” the rest of the globe was and how much we needed the enlightenment offered by the Peace Corps.

America always seemed surprised that other people did not necessarily appreciate being insulted or told how to live. Like Trump, it has had its enablers. Some, like the British, were true believers in its “manifest destiny” to rule and deliver the world. Others, like the French, were content to give their support while holding their noses.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ter-thread

Then we have
On the national stage, Trump said: “Ideally we won’t go to a lockdown. I will not go – this administration will not be going to a lockdown. Hopefully the – whatever happens in the future, who knows which administration will be.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... cine-biden
Even Dubya was rarely that incoherent.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

And here's the nub of the problem, a fundamental misunderstanding of reality on the part of President Trump's avaricious team of lawyers:
"Biden can only enter the White House as President if he can prove that his ridiculous '80,000,000 votes' were not fraudulently or illegally obtained."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-55109168
The burden of proof is obviously on the other side. Just appearing in front of Federal judges and insisting Biden's representatives prove a lack of fraudulence is not going to get anywhere. What they need to do, and haven't tried to do, and can't do, is provide testable examples of the opposite. As has often been noted on ForumGarden, proving a negative is not possible and should never be demanded.

Meanwhile, here's what the chap is reduced to. This is pitiful garbage.
When I came in four years ago — hard to believe, almost four years ago — we were in sad shape. And now we’re in phenomenal shape. Have you seen the difference in the equipment over the last couple of years?

MAJOR RUTHERFORD: Absolutely, sir. Definitely.

THE PRESIDENT: Yeah. We went from old planes to brand new planes; from — from planes that were very visible to stealth, where you can’t see them. Stealth helps. Do you agree with that?

MAJOR RUTHERFORD: Yes, sir. If you can’t see it, you can’t hit it.

THE PRESIDENT: It’s very — no, I don’t know much about what you do, but I know if you can see it, I like it better. Anyway, thank you very much.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-st ... -military/

Maybe he should have begged pardon of the turkey.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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I don't know the specifics for all the equipment he listed but I can guarantee you that the contracts for them were in place long before he took office. Once again, he's taking credit for work done during Obama's time as president.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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Justices also remarked on the lawsuit’s staggering demand that an entire election be overturned retroactively. “They have failed to allege that even a single mail-in ballot was fraudulently cast or counted,” justice David Wecht wrote in a concurring opinion.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... l-in-votes
The only permanent consequence of this Republican fan-dance is the destruction of a technical term, "election run-off". I don't think we ever had a photo of that though.

giuliani2.jpg
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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We have weeks of this to come, presumably.
The executive director of the watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics, said: “In pardoning Paul Manafort, Roger Stone and Charles Kushner, President Trump has made it clear that he believes the purpose of the pardon is to bail out rich white men connected to him. Trump has turned an instrument of mercy and justice into just another way for him to be corrupt.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... es-kunsher

I doubt he has the neck to pardon either Maxwell or Prince Andrew though. Note I do not presume guilt, merely that a pardon would be helpful.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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There is an astonishing op-ed in today's Washington Post:
As senior Defense Department leaders have noted, “there’s no role for the U.S. military in determining the outcome of a U.S. election.” Efforts to involve the U.S. armed forces in resolving election disputes would take us into dangerous, unlawful and unconstitutional territory. Civilian and military officials who direct or carry out such measures would be accountable, including potentially facing criminal penalties, for the grave consequences of their actions on our republic.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... 2021/01/03
I've no idea what has been happening in private, but that op-ed is attributed to Ashton Carter, Dick Cheney, William Cohen, Mark Esper, Robert Gates, Chuck Hagel, James Mattis, Leon Panetta, William Perry and Donald Rumsfeld, all ten of the 10 living former U.S. secretaries of defense.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by LarsMac »

So, it seems that the latest rumors are that Das Trumper is going to abandon his office and head to Scotland before the Inauguration.

At this point, I don't think that anything would surprise me, but my read is that he would likely find a less than warm reception, there.

(Speaking of Scotland, anyone heard from GMC recently?)
“All it takes to get elected in twenty-first-century America is a mob of frightened sheep and a wolf with a nice smile,”
― Greg Bear, Darwin's Children
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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The one guaranteed outcome of the demented rat showing up anywhere on the British Isles is that he'd be slapped in quarantine for ten days, and expelled if he overstayed his visitor visa.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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LarsMac wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:37 pm (Speaking of Scotland, anyone heard from GMC recently?)
I have no social media accounts so I haven't had the chance, but gmc is one of the regulars who didn't make it onto the new site - he was last online the month before we moved to phpbb3.

If nobody else has information I might ask more widely.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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Brilliant
"WASHINGTON (Reuters) -Police in the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday responded with drawn guns and tear gas on Wednesday as swarms of protesters stormed in and sought to force Congress to undo President Donald Trump’s election loss shortly after some of Trump’s fellow Republicans launched a last-ditch effort to throw out the results."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN29B2PU

So, the trumpian revolt seems to be in full swing.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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From what I can gather,

1. Giuliani insisted to the crowd that they had to engage in trial by combat.

2. President Trump demanded the crowd march on the Capitol.

3. Whatever security arrangements were meant to be in place had practically evaporated into thin air, maybe the guards took a day off sick. The Washington Post has a headline which encapsulates the stand-back impression "Kid glove treatment of pro-Trump mob contrasts with strong-arm police tactics against Black Lives Matter, activists say". Damn right too. Clearly the police haven't the balls to kettle an armed crowd of white bully-boys.

4. The House and the Senate abandoned their session before they had managed to certify President-elect Biden into office, and its members were evacuated.

5. The Electoral College votes which were to be counted were saved from being destroyed by the mob, when officials removed their boxes from the chamber.

6. Washington is now under curfew and the sessions are to be resumed after dark. One of the rioters died in hospital.

The last time the Capitol was taken by force of arms was in 1814, by the British.

I have no idea why Giuliani in particular hasn't been taken into custody, there must be treason laws that apply to what he did. Shots were fired, the scene was proclaimed a riot, people are in jail, how can the fomentor not follow them?
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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magentaflame wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:25 pm I have a question for the Americans on this board. Australia has laws concerning incitement to violence and inciting people to break the law.\
Can Rudi and Donald be done for this if the proverbial hits the fan? Or can they use the cover of the courts ? Citing that their claims are a lawful questions to be answered?
Has America had to board up premises during an election before because of fears of violence?
Is fearmongering common to this degree/extent during elections?
Still a valid question, that, even after two months.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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spot wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:53 am
magentaflame wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:25 pm I have a question for the Americans on this board. Australia has laws concerning incitement to violence and inciting people to break the law.\
Can Rudi and Donald be done for this if the proverbial hits the fan? Or can they use the cover of the courts ? Citing that their claims are a lawful questions to be answered?
Has America had to board up premises during an election before because of fears of violence?
Is fearmongering common to this degree/extent during elections?
Still a valid question, that, even after two months.
Hi magenta. You ask: Is fearmongering common to this degree/extent during elections?

Hey, this is all new shit, at least to this degree! Fearmongering has been common practice before the Civil Rights movement, among mostly southern states who didn't want black people to vote. As a national thing? No, not yet.

The Trump Enablers are the ones to focus on, and they will be with us for a long time to come. These parasites cling to this president to further their own cynical gains.

One of the hardest things for a human is to admit a mistake and learn from it. That requires mental skills many people lack, or were never taught, whatever your preference. Hard to say "Hell, I fucked up."
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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On the House floor early on Thursday, hours after a violent, pro-Trump mob burst into the Capitol, Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) expressed his anger at the perpetrators. But Gaetz wasn’t pointing the finger at fellow Trump supporters — instead, he suggested that members of antifa had secretly infiltrated the group to cause the chaos.

Citing a widely contested article published by the Washington Times, Gaetz admitted that he does not know “if the reports are true.” But, he said to audible boos, “some of the people who breached the Capitol today were not Trump supporters. They were masquerading as Trump supporters and in fact, were members of the violent terrorist group antifa.”

Yet Gaetz wasn’t alone. Across social media and conservative-leaning TV stations, some right-wing figures peddled the similar claim that the loose collective of far-left activists were responsible for the riots, as The Washington Post’s Jeremy Barr reported.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... rump-riot/

@mollyesque
The amazing thing about "it might have been antifa" is that Trump literally summoned these people to DC, spoke at their event, offered to walk them over to the Capitol and then praised them afterward.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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Quite how history will remember President Trump will be interesting to discover. "These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots" will be at least a chapter heading.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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Snooz mentioned Antifa. Already, the insane clown posse that is in support of yesterday's nonsense are claiming the mob was made up of Antifa members who posed as "Patriots" and that is why the mob turned violent. Only Antifa, they claim, would stoop to this. I'm exhausted just typing this!
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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AnneBoleyn wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:05 am Snooz mentioned Antifa. Already, the insane clown posse that is in support of yesterday's nonsense are claiming the mob was made up of Antifa members who posed as "Patriots" and that is why the mob turned violent. Only Antifa, they claim, would stoop to this. I'm exhausted just typing this!
One might think that this is a way for Patriots to criticize the behavior of those who attacked the Capitol, given that no Patriot could ever do such a thing. Someone in the House even referred to "Fascist Antifa" at one point which sounds like mudslinging to me.

I have a quote from a 1933 play which fits very well, though:
I know what I'm up against.... No rose without a thorn!... And the last thing I'll stand for is ideas to get the better of me! I know that rubbish from '18..., fraternity, equality, ..., freedom..., beauty and dignity! You gotta use the right bait to hook 'em. And then, you're right in the middle of a parley and they say: Hands up! You're disarmed..., you republican voting swine! — No, let 'em keep their good distance with their whole ideological kettle of fish.... I shoot with live ammunition! When I hear the word culture..., I release the safety on my Browning!"

https://avozportalegrense.blogspot.com/ ... e-ich.html
If that's not a Trump supporter speaking then it's pretty close.

I have a question which relates to the world news coverage of yesterday's event in Washington, since you're capable of remembering the past. How far back do you need to go to find a time when a reference to Uncle Sam was pro-American as opposed to cynical.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by AnneBoleyn »

spot asks:
How far back do you need to go to find a time when a reference to Uncle Sam was pro-American as opposed to cynical.

I have no idea. Thanks for asking, and keep those questions coming! :D
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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AnneBoleyn wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:31 am spot asks:
How far back do you need to go to find a time when a reference to Uncle Sam was pro-American as opposed to cynical.

I have no idea. Thanks for asking, and keep those questions coming! :D
Various Cagney films made references to Uncle Sam but I'm not sure I've seen many recently other than on hoardings in Iran.

If pressed, I'd say Cagney was the greatest film actor ever, anywhere, and even he seemed to have gone off Uncle Sam by the time he performed in Ragtime.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by LarsMac »

Facebook has disabled Das Trumper's accounts, at least until after the inauguration.
And to answer Mag's question, yes, inciting a riot is a felony offense, and Rudi and Donald should be charged. Though, I think Donald is, for the moment, safe from such charges, at least until January 21.

I, for one, would be happy if he is banished forever from any form of public media, and sent to spend the rest of his days in some squalid backwater location.
Or maybe, Puerto Rico would take him in. I am sure many people there would like to have a word with him.

It should be noted that the events of yesterday not only failed to disrupt the certification of Electoral College results more than briefly, but they actually had the opposite affect, in that many of the people planning to try and change the outcome actually changed their tune, and went along with the certification.

So rather than being the Modern American version of Bastille Day, yesterday will prove to be, at best, a curious footnote in the Congressional Notes, and a tale told by history teachers hoping to offer an amusing moment in their class lecture.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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LarsMac wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:28 am

So rather than being the Modern American version of Bastille Day, yesterday will prove to be, at best, a curious footnote in the Congressional Notes, and a tale told by history teachers hoping to offer an amusing moment in their class lecture.
I'm with you on that one. But.... It is commonly accepted that a week is a long time in politics. I said it before that I don't just blame Trump. The republican party are the biggest bunch of rich cowards since the seventies, where the liberal party in Australia watched passively whilst the governor general and the queen removed an elected prime minister to this country. Greed and perceived power corrupts.

If they don't impeach him they at least have to gag him.
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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As far as the riot fuck knuckles are concerned...............


The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by Bryn Mawr »

magentaflame wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:17 pm
LarsMac wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:28 am

So rather than being the Modern American version of Bastille Day, yesterday will prove to be, at best, a curious footnote in the Congressional Notes, and a tale told by history teachers hoping to offer an amusing moment in their class lecture.
I'm with you on that one. But.... It is commonly accepted that a week is a long time in politics. I said it before that I don't just blame Trump. The republican party are the biggest bunch of rich cowards since the seventies, where the liberal party in Australia watched passively whilst the governor general and the queen removed an elected prime minister to this country. Greed and perceived power corrupts.

If they don't impeach him they at least have to gag him.
Facebook and Twitter have effectively done that - he doesn’t appear to be able to communicate outside of that.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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Bryn Mawr wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:38 pm
magentaflame wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:17 pm
LarsMac wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:28 am

So rather than being the Modern American version of Bastille Day, yesterday will prove to be, at best, a curious footnote in the Congressional Notes, and a tale told by history teachers hoping to offer an amusing moment in their class lecture.
I'm with you on that one. But.... It is commonly accepted that a week is a long time in politics. I said it before that I don't just blame Trump. The republican party are the biggest bunch of rich cowards since the seventies, where the liberal party in Australia watched passively whilst the governor general and the queen removed an elected prime minister to this country. Greed and perceived power corrupts.

If they don't impeach him they at least have to gag him.
Facebook and Twitter have effectively done that - he doesn’t appear to be able to communicate outside of that.
Yeah I know that. But what about FOX news and the Washington Post. AND YES! I know he doesn't like the Washington post but when someone is desperate .....? And has to be heard. You'll go anywhere. JMO
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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I'm just listening to an interview on ABC news (aust) at them moment they are interviewing a republican senator. Why doesn't he 25th amendment cover insanity? If you're shot or gravely ill it stands but insanity doesn't cut it. Which amendment covers it then? or are the collective' 'King Georges' allowed to roam free?
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

magentaflame wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:43 pm
Bryn Mawr wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:38 pm
magentaflame wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:17 pm
LarsMac wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:28 am

So rather than being the Modern American version of Bastille Day, yesterday will prove to be, at best, a curious footnote in the Congressional Notes, and a tale told by history teachers hoping to offer an amusing moment in their class lecture.
I'm with you on that one. But.... It is commonly accepted that a week is a long time in politics. I said it before that I don't just blame Trump. The republican party are the biggest bunch of rich cowards since the seventies, where the liberal party in Australia watched passively whilst the governor general and the queen removed an elected prime minister to this country. Greed and perceived power corrupts.

If they don't impeach him they at least have to gag him.
Facebook and Twitter have effectively done that - he doesn’t appear to be able to communicate outside of that.
Yeah I know that. But what about FOX news and the Washington Post. AND YES! I know he doesn't like the Washington post but when someone is desperate .....? And has to be heard. You'll go anywhere. JMO
The Washington Post has done as much as anyone to destroy the prospects of President Trump's second term.

Americans filter the news they get by selecting the channels they want to watch and the papers they want to reed. They breathe the bias they choose and they get led by the nose one way or the other because most of what they're watching is opinion, not news. Half the Guardian and, come to that, the Washington Post, is "Op-Ed" opinion which is a lot more than it should be but at least it's invariably flagged with warning signs to let people choose not to open those articles. I certainly don't, with the sole exception of Stewart Lee who isn't op-ed, just artistry.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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magentaflame wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:53 pm I'm just listening to an interview on ABC news (aust) at the moment they are interviewing a republican senator. Why doesn't the 25th amendment cover insanity and inciting a civil war? If you're shot or gravely ill it stands. but insanity doesn't cut it. Which amendment covers it then? or are the collective' 'King Georges' allowed to roam free?
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by Bryn Mawr »

magentaflame wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:53 pm I'm just listening to an interview on ABC news (aust) at them moment they are interviewing a republican senator. Why doesn't he 25th amendment cover insanity? If you're shot or gravely ill it stands but insanity doesn't cut it. Which amendment covers it then? or are the collective' 'King Georges' allowed to roam free?
In the opinion of that particular Republican senator - I think you might find that others have different options.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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I would like to think that the quiet peoples of the US would make up the biggest protests known to man if they assembled.
You have your "Get Trump Out-ters"
Then you have the "Let trump Stay-ers"
But there has to be the " For Gods sakes sort yourselves out and just get on the freaking job-bers." Something tells me the latter would make up the majority.
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by Snooz »

Trump was only suspended from twitter for 12 hours, he's back now.

He did join Parler last night which probably suits him better but the audience is bigger at twitter. Or at least he has more bots in attendance. Crowd size is very important to him.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by LarsMac »

magentaflame wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:53 pm I'm just listening to an interview on ABC news (aust) at them moment they are interviewing a republican senator. Why doesn't he 25th amendment cover insanity? If you're shot or gravely ill it stands but insanity doesn't cut it. Which amendment covers it then? or are the collective' 'King Georges' allowed to roam free?
25th amendment only covers the VP taking over should the Pres be dead or injured to the point of being unable to do his job.
It also requires invoking Article 2 section four to remove an acting President or other official from their post.

There was never any thought given for a provision of the Pres being Nucking Futs.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

I see the description "Deplorables" has come back into widespread use this week when talking about the lunatic core President Trump co-opted from the Tea Party.

I'm anxiously hoping the President will form a breakaway party - maybe he could call it Reformist, that would work - but that's only going to happen if the Republicans scrub out their stable.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by Bryn Mawr »

spot wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:18 pm I see the description "Deplorables" has come back into widespread use this week when talking about the lunatic core President Trump co-opted from the Tea Party.

I'm anxiously hoping the President will form a breakaway party - maybe he could call it Reformist, that would work - but that's only going to happen if the Republicans scrub out their stable.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

I wonder which TV channel will be the first to offer President Trump a prime-time show of his own after January 20th. And I wonder who his agent is, and whether the agent gets 5% or 10%, and whether the agent got him his residency at the White House.

There's a thing about chess that, if you look at top-level games, nine moves out of ten are the moves which maximize the player's coverage of the board. I think that's what President Trump has done throughout, nine out of ten of his actions have been designed to capture the most attention regardless of whether they've been useful or helpful to anyone.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

LarsMac wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:05 pm
spot wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:30 pm"The residents of Flint despise Rick Snyder".
As little as I care for Gov Snyder, the Flint poisoning was not really his doing.
The City of Flint managed that, all by they lonesome.
To keep this in play:
Former Michigan governor Rick Snyder, his health director and other ex-officials have been told they’re being charged after a new investigation of the Flint water scandal, which devastated the majority Black city with lead-contaminated water and was blamed for a deadly outbreak of Legionnaires’ disease in 2014-15, the Associated Press has learned.

Two people with knowledge of the planned prosecution told the AP on Tuesday that the attorney general’s office has informed defense lawyers about indictments in Flint and told them to expect initial court appearances soon. They spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ick-snyder
Or perhaps President Trump's political adherents are putting the boot in while they still can.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

If the Republican Party would like to unburden themselves of their current embarrassment and return to governance instead of being a personal vanity project, going all the way with the Senate impeachment is the only mechanism they will ever find. I'll be impressed if they take it.

I watched the House impeachment process on C-SPAN. Far and away the finest rhetoric came from Steny Hoyer. I’d quite like to quote it in full:
Washington's legacy was passed down to us not as written decrees but understood norms. How we ought to act. How we ought to conduct ourselves. Term after term, each occupant has observed those norms out of a recognition that our constitution's articles are not the only preservative of our democracy. For more than two centuries, Madam speaker, whenever those norms were tested and strained good and virtuous citizens on both sides of the aisle found common purpose in reaffirming those norms. But memory fades. And from time to time it must be refreshed. Madam speaker, as the framers emerge from the constitution convention, Benjamin Franklin was asked whether they had made America a monarchy or a republic. Probably all of us know this response. A republic, he answered, if you can keep it. That's the question today. If we can keep it. The way we keep it is to say no. To actions and words that do not promote the keeping of that republic. For millennia, people have understood that a republic is only as stable and lasting as the citizens and leaders who commit themselves to its upkeep. This president has shown us he's not committed to that project. His tweet - his tweets, every day, have shown he is not committed to that. Indeed, he openly disdains it and appears to prefer the alternative. What of the rest of us? Those who have the honor and great privilege and the weighty responsibility to represent the views of 750,000 of our fellow citizens? We in this congress have an opportunity, no, a duty, to demonstrate our commitment both as leaders and citizens, to keep America a republic. A republic that resolves its differences not through being ordered to come to the capitol to prevent them from stealing the election. Which was an absurd assertion from the very first day it was made. We cannot erase the last four years, Madam speaker. We cannot turn back the clock, but we can look to the ideals and principles inherited from great presidents, like Washington, like Jefferson, and, yes, certainly, like Abraham Lincoln. And Franklin Roosevelt. And from outstanding Americans like Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, Susan Anthony, Cesar Chavez, Martin Luther King, they are Thurgood Marshall, our beloved john lewis and R.B.G., Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who taught us a lot about equality and inclusion. It's up to us to restore the vibrancy, Madam speaker, of our democracy by reaffirming our commitment to the norms they passed onto us and entrusted to our care. But to make that possible, Madam speaker, we must rise to this moment, and not only affirm the virtues we cherish but reject the vices we abhor. That's what I'm asking my fellow representatives on both sides of the aisle to do today. We all stood and we abhorred the violence that occurred and the threat to the very democracy that we hold so dear and swore an oath to protect and uphold. Reject deceit. Reject fear mongering. Reject sedition. Tyranny, tyranny and insurrection. Reject the demand to fealty to one man over fidelity to one's country. When I addressed the articles of impeachment in December of to 2017 I asked the following - we need not ask who will be the first to show our courage by standing up to president Trump. The question we must ask - who will be the last to find it? Senator Mcconnell, representative Cheney, a number of representatives who have spoken on this floor with great courage, Madam speaker. Because there's much fear of Donald Trump. There's much fear of Donald Trump's tweets. There's much fear of Donald Trump's retribution for opposition. In my view, Donald Trump demands absolute loyalty and gives none in return. I hope others will join Liz Cheney. I hope others will be honest with themselves and with their constituents, as Liz Cheney was saying, there has never been a greater betrayal by a president of the United States of his office and his oath to the constitution. Don't dismiss that. She's the daughter of a vice president of the United States who was the whip when I came to Congress. As she has taken a stand, I hope others will as well, Madam speaker. Soon, the clerk will call the roll and ask for our votes. Make no mistake, this will be no ordinary roll call. This is about our country, our constitution, and our democracy. These votes will be inscribed on the roll of history, a record of courage, and of our commitment to country and constitution, of our commitment to the rule of law and renewal of that which we inherited and hope to pass on, unbroken, unshattered. With just seven days left in the president's term, this vote is not about timing, it's about principle and fidelity to our constitution. It concerns the clear and present danger facing our country, not only in these finals days of the trump administration, but in the weeks, months, and years that will follow. It is about the necessity to demonstrate to this generation and to future generations the duty duty we share to protect our democracy every single day. Do not pretend, my friends, it was simply those who came into the Capitol, encouraged by our president to stop the steal at any cost. And by the way, if the vice president doesn't do my bidding and follows the constitution, sweep him away. We know that this president would never emulate George Washington and give up his power for the good of our republic, even after losing an election. Somebody talked about a peaceful transition. There has not been a peaceful transition. I don't know what you're talking about. You're not living in the same country I am. It was just days ago that the president, after committing this terrible act, thought he had to admit that Joe Biden might, yes, be president of the United States. We know that this president neither recognizes norms nor reflects the rule of law. We know that this president is not a patriot. So I ask this House - who among us, Madam speaker, will be recorded on the roll of history for their courage, their commitment, the constitution, and their country? We do this today, not for politics. We don't need this for politics. Georgia showed that. There was no mistake in this election. We do this today to preserve and protect this great democracy. We do it for the America we love. Our America, the beautiful, whose founders' sacrifices we praise in song, O beautiful, for heroes proved, in liberating strife, who more than self, their country loved, and mercy more than life. Sadly, Madam speaker, as our current president, the appropriate words would be - who less than self his country loved and victory more than truth. Vote for this, for America, for our constitution, for democracy, for history. I yield back the balance of my time.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by LarsMac »

So, driving home across the state, today, I noticed that many of the TRUMP signs and flags, put up along the highway before the election, which had begun to disappear, are now back in all their glory. [sigh] it'd gonna be a long year, I think.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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I was listening to the Impeachment Debate, and most of it was repeated rhetoric about having taken the Oath to protect the country against all enemies Foreign & Domestic. However, I was surprised I never heard the phrase "Liberty & Justice for all".

The reason for Impeaching Trump is not a matter of unseating him, but it removes his Power of Pardon, and now he can be prosecuted for his crimes. He has to face Justice. Otherwise he sets a precedent that the President is above the Law. Plus, if convicted, it ensures he can never stand again.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

FourPart wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:18 pmThe reason for Impeaching Trump is not a matter of unseating him, but it removes his Power of Pardon, and now he can be prosecuted for his crimes. He has to face Justice. Otherwise he sets a precedent that the President is above the Law. Plus, if convicted, it ensures he can never stand again.
President Trump has the power of pardon until January 20th when the transition happens. If he were to stop being President before then, the automatically promoted Vice-president Pence would inherit the power. President Pence, unlike President Trump, would have the power to pardon Trump.

The impeachment trial will only happen after the transition, not before. There isn't time in the remaining five days. The only way Pence could become president is by Trump resigning, and that's not on the cards.

If the Senate impeachment trial, which will happen, finds Trump guilty (which needs a two-thirds majority), then a subsequent vote in the Senate would decide whether to disbar him from public office for life - that's a different decision. Somewhere in there is yet another decision whether to continue his pension and his security detail too.

Meanwhile, since President Trump retains his power to pardon people for the next five days, I can't imagine he's going to leave his administration cronies like Pompeo unrewarded though I'd be much amused if Giuliani gets left out in the cold.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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spot wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:50 am Meanwhile, since President Trump retains his power to pardon people for the next five days, I can't imagine he's going to leave his administration cronies like Pompeo unrewarded though I'd be much amused if Giuliani gets left out in the cold.
Seeing as how Guiliani is currently sueing Trump for non payment of his bills (typical Trump tactic), I very much doubt Trump is likely to pardon him either.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

FourPart wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:28 pm
spot wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:50 am Meanwhile, since President Trump retains his power to pardon people for the next five days, I can't imagine he's going to leave his administration cronies like Pompeo unrewarded though I'd be much amused if Giuliani gets left out in the cold.
Seeing as how Guiliani is currently sueing Trump for non payment of his bills (typical Trump tactic), I very much doubt Trump is likely to pardon him either.
That I'd not seen in the news. The suspension of payment, yes, but I'd not seen a report about a lawsuit. Giuliani was charging something over $5 million a year pro-rated, if I understood the figures, so you can see why the President put a rapid stop to the haemorrhage. $2,000 an hour. About the standard rate for a top-whack British barrister taking advantage.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

If I create an open wiki website for the sole purpose of gathering all the reported evidence of voter fraud in the 2020 Presidential election, with a complete ban on rumor of fraud or allegation of fraud or claims made without presented evidence, would that be useful? I can easily do that.

It would need a domain name. I'm open to suggestions.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

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spot wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:19 am If I create an open wiki website for the sole purpose of gathering all the reported evidence of voter fraud in the 2020 Presidential election, with a complete ban on rumor of fraud or allegation of fraud or claims made without presented evidence, would that be useful? I can easily do that.

It would need a domain name. I'm open to suggestions.
A ban on allegations of Voter Fraud without evidence. You wouldn't have a website. Apart from the one with a dead voter voting - for Trump. And the phone call of Trump trying to 'find' votes.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by spot »

I'm not so sure. https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-was ... ed-1561777 has all the appearance of something smelly, though I suspect Raquel Rodriguez was investigating rather than commissioning. Who has stung whom isn't clear but I don't think the events constituted corrupt practice. Perhaps the story will unfold.
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Re: The Presidential Election of 2020

Post by LarsMac »

So far, the only documented cases of "election fraud" I have found in the media are of pro-Trump/Republican actors.
The Rodriques case and one in Pennsylvania where the guy tried to vote for The Donald on behalf of his dead mother.
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