Move to ban BNP members teaching

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Bruv
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Post by Bruv »

Delegates at the AGM of the EIS heard that there were already provisions to ban teachers who expressed racist views in the classroom.

However, the union decided to campaign on the issue by calling on the Scottish Government to ensure members of the BNP, led by Nick Griffin, and other fascist groups would not be allowed to teach in schools.

Oh No...........what section of society next ?
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From the article" "We don't allow BNP members to be police officers or prison officers so how can it be acceptable to allow them to be responsible for the education of young people?"

Excellent question. So it's legal to join this organization, but doing so automatically cuts you out of many employment opportunities? I'm not familiar with the BNP. If that's the case why openly join? Wouldn't it be smarter to do it secretly?
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The BNP ( British National Party ) Is a Bona Fide registered political Party that Is just as accountable to the electoral Commission as are any other Political Party and takes part In legal elections across the country as does any other political party.

They are skating on very thin Ice. They should have learned lessons from this.

Bus driver sacked for being member of the BNP wins legal battle claiming dismissal was a breach of his human rights | Mail Online

A swing to far right UKIP In the EU elections and a General coming up In a year. Doesn't need brain of Britain to work this one out.
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Accountable;1456941 wrote: I'm not familiar with the BNP. If that's the case why openly join? Wouldn't it be smarter to do it secretly?


People who join overwhelmingly maintain secrecy about their membership unless they did it to win a seat on their local council or unless they're plain out-and-out hooligans. They are England's moral equivalent of the Westboro Baptists.

I don't mind these anti-Semitic bigots teaching but I draw the line at their being employed to deliver my post.





eta: The BNP, like God, also hates fags, unless my memory is playing games again.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Týr;1456944 wrote:

I don't mind these anti-Semitic bigots teaching but I draw the line at their being employed to deliver my post.


One of the BNP's many Jewish members expresses his disdain for the tactics employed against the party - YouTube

BNP Jewish win
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Oscar Namechange;1456945 wrote: One of the BNP's many Jewish members expresses his disdain for the tactics employed against the party - YouTube

BNP Jewish win


I wonder, have you ever heard of tokenism in a political context? As in token black, token muslim, token queer or token woman?
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Here we go...In 2009, Griffin stated: "I have brought the British National party from the frankly an anti-semitic and racist organisation, into the only party which in the clashes between Israel and Gaza supported Israel's right to deal with Hamas terrorists."





That's what the chap claims. It may well even be his successor's current opportunist party policy. That doesn't stop most of the membership from being anti-Semitic bigots though. Or out-and-out hooligans, come to that.

I went to one of Colin Jordan's rallies once, I've seen them baying. The only other time I've seen anything like it was the Conservative Party Conference whooping up Portillo's Little List.





eta: regarding both anti-Semitism and out-and-out hooliganism, and from the same article,Tony Lecomber was imprisoned for three years for possessing explosives, after a nail bomb exploded while he was carrying it to the offices of the Workers' Revolutionary Party in 1985. He was imprisoned for three years in 1991 whilst serving as the BNP's Director of Propaganda for assaulting a Jewish teacher.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Týr;1456946 wrote: I wonder, have you ever heard of tokenism in a political context? As in token black, token muslim, token queer or token woman?


Certainly, that came to light under the Blair Labour government,

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... c-exercise
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Týr;1456947 wrote: Here we go...In 2009, Griffin stated: "I have brought the British National party from the frankly an anti-semitic and racist organisation, into the only party which in the clashes between Israel and Gaza supported Israel's right to deal with Hamas terrorists."





That's what the chap claims. It may well even be his successor's current opportunist party policy. That doesn't stop most of the membership from being anti-Semitic bigots though. Or out-and-out hooligans, come to that.

I went to one of Colin Jordan's rallies once, I've seen them baying. The only other time I've seen anything like it was the Conservative Party Conference whooping up Portillo's Little List.


In any party there are nutters, I have always said that. The Left's hooligans are the UAF. Have you ever actually witnessed these so called anti-fascists attacking our police because I am quite happy to show you the evidence.

To date, there are 25 Labour Councillors convicted of child sex abuse. Now are you suggesting every Labour voter Is a child abuser?

Of course there are a fair share of nutters In the BNP. Every fringe party attracts them, you only have to look at UKIP.
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Oscar Namechange;1456943 wrote: The BNP ( British National Party ) Is a Bona Fide registered political Party that Is just as accountable to the electoral Commission as are any other Political Party and takes part In legal elections across the country as does any other political party.

They are skating on very thin Ice. They should have learned lessons from this.

Bus driver sacked for being member of the BNP wins legal battle claiming dismissal was a breach of his human rights | Mail Online

A swing to far right UKIP In the EU elections and a General coming up In a year. Doesn't need brain of Britain to work this one out.


I've always supported the idea that light is the best disinfectant. Let 'em organize. Insist that they make their views public. Put up a good valid alternative to them. Trust the people to ultimately make the right decision
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Post by Bruv »

I can understand banning convicted criminals from certain jobs, but I fail to see how we can stop someones political beliefs affecting their employment prospects.

It harks back to McCarthyism
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Personally I find the whole concept of the BNP totally odious. We even used to have the local candidate in our choir & if he hadn't have left, I was about to as every time I saw him I just wanted to punch his lights out. Normally I'm really laid back, but that sort of thing brings out the worst in me.

However, having said that, just as has already been mentioned, love them or loathe them, they are a legitimate political party & as such it has to be technically illegal to discriminate against anyone who has not been convicted of a criminal offence.

Much as I would not want such people teaching my kids (if I had any), I can also see how banning them because of their political views could also be viewed as taking the same fascist stance. Hitler never had any opposition parties. They weren't allowed. Anyone who held opposing views just mysteriously disappeared.

I think the key difference has to be those of having controversial beliefs & instigating them into others of an easily corruptible nature.

It's all a touch of "I may not agree with your views, but I will defend, to the death, your right to express them".
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

FourPart;1456990 wrote: Personally I find the whole concept of the BNP totally odious. We even used to have the local candidate in our choir & if he hadn't have left, I was about to as every time I saw him I just wanted to punch his lights out. Normally I'm really laid back, but that sort of thing brings out the worst in me.



. Then that makes you the thug that the uninformed assume the BNP are.

Out of Interest, do you like football?
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Oscar Namechange;1456993 wrote:

Out of Interest, do you like football?
Nope.
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FourPart;1456996 wrote: Nope. So you assume that because a proportion of football fans are violent criminals hellbent on disrupting the terraces, all football fans are violent? So because you met one BNP member you wanted to physically attack, you assume all BNP supporters are rabid nutters?

What about UKIP.? One Councilor says ' poofter should be shot' so you assume all UKIP supporters want homosexuals killed.
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FourPart;1456990 wrote: Hitler never had any opposition parties. They weren't allowed. Anyone who held opposing views just mysteriously disappeared.
That, to be fair, was scarcely the fault of Hitler or National Socialism. Allow me a very relevant quote which holds as true for ForumGarden as it did for the Reichstag:When the speaker of one party indulged in his oratory, the others walked out. It was not worth while to listen to somebody's opinion when you knew that his premises were all wrong. The grim determination to silence the unconvincible enemy by execution or imprisonment already existed prior to 1933 in many parties.

Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn, The Menace of the Herd. Milwaukee: The Bruce Publishing Co., 1943.

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Post by gmc »

For once I agree with what's her name, this is wrong on so many levels. What next ban left wing parties because they are anti capitalist, anti monarchist?

posted by four part

I think the key difference has to be those of having controversial beliefs & instigating them into others of an easily corruptible nature.




In that case let's ban all religious teachers and religious schools in case they preach that their way is the only way and everybody else is wrong and going to hell. sectarianisn/racism what's the difference, onc you get beneath the skin? Both basically say anyone who is different is to be shunned or treated as lesser.

posted by today I am going to be called gerald.

What about UKIP.? One Councilor says ' poofter should be shot' so you assume all UKIP supporters want homosexuals killed.




Your starter for ten which type of organisation not only demands the right to discriminate against homosexuals and deny their human rights but does so on the grounds that their beliefs are somehow better than everybody elses and sacrosanct. Which prime minister recently stated that as a nation we all support these beliefs. Can't wait till they try and change the laws of succession and all the christians go for each other.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

gmc;1457034 wrote: For once I agree with what's her name, this is wrong on so many levels. What next ban left wing parties because they are anti capitalist, anti monarchist?

posted by four part



In that case let's ban all religious teachers and religious schools in case they preach that their way is the only way and everybody else is wrong and going to hell. sectarianisn/racism what's the difference, onc you get beneath the skin? Both basically say anyone who is different is to be shunned or treated as lesser.

posted by today I am going to be called gerald.



Your starter for ten which type of organisation not only demands the right to discriminate against homosexuals and deny their human rights but does so on the grounds that their beliefs are somehow better than everybody elses and sacrosanct. Which prime minister recently stated that as a nation we all support these beliefs. Can't wait till they try and change the laws of succession and all the christians go for each other. It Is absurd and for this reason.

To register a political party with the Electoral Commission, you must submit your constitution. The Commission accepted the BNP's constitution and registered them as a bona fide political party open to as much scrutiny as any other party and by registering them, gave them the legal right to contest any seat or council In the country. So after accepting their registration and taking their fee's, they now attempt to dictate who can do what. I'd actually have more respect If any government called for the BNP to be de-registered rather than this absurd course they want to take.

They are on very dangerous ground. Look at the amount of trials of BNP members and key figures and see how many either get thrown out of court or found not guilty by jury. Look at the case the sacked bus driver won. Nick Griffin has a damn good legal department.
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Oscar Namechange;1456993 wrote: Then that makes you the thug that the uninformed assume the BNP are.


Nah, not for wanting to but refraining from. That makes him fairly normal.
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FourPart;1456990 wrote: Personally I find the whole concept of the BNP totally odious. We even used to have the local candidate in our choir & if he hadn't have left, I was about to as every time I saw him I just wanted to punch his lights out. Normally I'm really laid back, but that sort of thing brings out the worst in me.

...


Oscar Namechange;1456993 wrote: Then that makes you the thug that the uninformed assume the BNP are.

...


Accountable;1457062 wrote: Nah, not for wanting to but refraining from. That makes him fairly normal.


True. there is a very long road from "wanting to" and actually punching (or shooting, strangling, kicking, etc.)
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Bruv;1456939 wrote: Delegates at the AGM of the EIS heard that there were already provisions to ban teachers who expressed racist views in the classroom.

However, the union decided to campaign on the issue by calling on the Scottish Government to ensure members of the BNP, led by Nick Griffin, and other fascist groups would not be allowed to teach in schools.



Oh No...........what section of society next ? Seen this ?



Civil Liberty - Church of England in terminal decline after BNP ban
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Accountable;1457062 wrote: Nah, not for wanting to but refraining from. That makes him fairly normal. Due to media, the BNP has historically been portrayed as violent thugs. Look at any headline Involving the BNP and you'll see the word ' thugs'... as this one for example.

PressTV - Scuffles break out between BNP thugs & anti-fascists in London

Although ' thugs libels most BNP members. I just find It ironic that many In this country can quite happily label all BNP members as thugs and go along with the negative media yet then talks of wanting to hit a member after he finds the BNP abhorrent. There's an Irony there.
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LarsMac;1457069 wrote: True. there is a very long road from "wanting to" and actually punching (or shooting, strangling, kicking, etc.)
Thank you. I'm glad to see someone understood what I was getting at.

You see this particular person was always promoting his beliefs that everyone of foreign descent should be shipped bake to their native countries, despite the fact of having been born here. He also believed that Capital Punishment should be a standard, across the board, penalty for all crimes, claiming it would be the ultimate deterrent, but not only that, but in public so that everyone could see justice being done. He was just an outright nutter who also claimed to be a 'Born-Again Christian'.

As to claims of the media being responsible for the hype describing BNP as 'thugs', is that so far from the truth? As in the earlier simile of Football Hooligans, despite the vast majority of Football Fans being interested in nothing more than a decent game of football, there are that fringe who specifically intent on using the event as grounds for a damn good punch up. Fortunately, though, the powers that be finally got round to stamping this fringe element out (at least mostly), hopefully repairing our country's worldwide reputation as one of hooligans.

As for UKIP, I am one of their supporters, inasmuch as I am totally against EU membership, but I am also totally against those that use it as a platform for their more extremists beliefs, such as campaigning against homosexuality & racial / religious disharmony. Such members are more likely to be ones who previously held allegiance to the BNP. Despite UKIP making a policy to disqualify previous BNP Members into their own membership, there are still those who may not have been official party members, bit still strongly supported their cause, just as there are with all the other parties.

I see the BNP as being a thoroughly evil influence, albeit an extremely minority one. In this, there are 2 main problems.

1. It would be wrong to ban them, as that is a case of gagging someone's personal beliefs - something they want to impose for themselves on everyone that doesn't agree with them.

2. The fact that when a people are in an overall state of discontent & desperation (just as with Germany in the 30s) they will turn to anyone who offers them change, if if the change offered is nothing but pie in the sky.
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Oscar Namechange;1457077 wrote: Seen this ?



Civil Liberty - Church of England in terminal decline after BNP ban


I fail to see what they are trying to say.

The Churches are empty because all the congregation are at BNP meetings?

Or........is this another poor excuse for empty pews.
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FourPart;1457082 wrote: Thank you. I'm glad to see someone understood what I was getting at.

You see this particular person was always promoting his beliefs that everyone of foreign descent should be shipped bake to their native countries, despite the fact of having been born here. He also believed that Capital Punishment should be a standard, across the board, penalty for all crimes, claiming it would be the ultimate deterrent, but not only that, but in public so that everyone could see justice being done. He was just an outright nutter who also claimed to be a 'Born-Again Christian'.

As to claims of the media being responsible for the hype describing BNP as 'thugs', is that so far from the truth? As in the earlier simile of Football Hooligans, despite the vast majority of Football Fans being interested in nothing more than a decent game of football, there are that fringe who specifically intent on using the event as grounds for a damn good punch up. Fortunately, though, the powers that be finally got round to stamping this fringe element out (at least mostly), hopefully repairing our country's worldwide reputation as one of hooligans.

As for UKIP, I am one of their supporters, inasmuch as I am totally against EU membership, but I am also totally against those that use it as a platform for their more extremists beliefs, such as campaigning against homosexuality & racial / religious disharmony. Such members are more likely to be ones who previously held allegiance to the BNP. Despite UKIP making a policy to disqualify previous BNP Members into their own membership, there are still those who may not have been official party members, bit still strongly supported their cause, just as there are with all the other parties.

I see the BNP as being a thoroughly evil influence, albeit an extremely minority one. In this, there are 2 main problems.

1. It would be wrong to ban them, as that is a case of gagging someone's personal beliefs - something they want to impose for themselves on everyone that doesn't agree with them.

2. The fact that when a people are in an overall state of discontent & desperation (just as with Germany in the 30s) they will turn to anyone who offers them change, if if the change offered is nothing but pie in the sky.


Then you have got my point about the football.

To date there are 25 Labour Councillors convicted of child sex abuse. Do you think every Labour supporter Is a child molester? A UKIP councillor announced all Poofters should be shot. Do you think every UKIP supporter Is homophobic ? Tory MP's have been convicted of fraud. Is every Tory supporter a crook ?

Have you actually read the BNP manifesto?

I always have to laugh at this Inference that Nick Griffin Is some kind of evil guru over his flock. He's just a bloke that's all.

When anyone chooses to support a political party, they do not agree with every single proposal on that manifesto. When choosing, most people will go with the party that they agree with more proposals than others. It does not mean to say that every BNP supporter agree's with everything Griffin lays out because I can assure you, they don't. That's why there has been so much Internal warfare between Brons and Griffin and a major split within the party with a large amount going off with Brons to form a new political party. In fact, had Brons not lost the leadership challenge two years ago by just 4 votes, under Brons the BNP would have been a far more menacing political party.

I digress... In every party you have nutters like the one you met. Have you actually witnessed the Labourites on the streets attacking our police and desecrating war memorials under the guise of the UAF ( Unite Against Fascism )?

No the UKIP supporters who are against homosexuality are not from the BNP. The BNP accepts homosexuality, It's just Nick has a problem with overt sexual behaviour on the streets In front of children. He doesn't give a toss what they do In their own homes.
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FourPart;1457082 wrote:





I see the BNP as being a thoroughly evil influence, albeit an extremely minority one. In this, there are 2 main problems.

1. It would be wrong to ban them, as that is a case of gagging someone's personal beliefs - something they want to impose for themselves on everyone that doesn't agree with them.

2. The fact that when a people are in an overall state of discontent & desperation (just as with Germany in the 30s) they will turn to anyone who offers them change, if if the change offered is nothing but pie in the sky.


Oh and for the record... Do you know where I hear the very worst of blatant racism ? Where c**n, N****r, Golliwogs etc are used In abundance?

Not at any far right meeting... no... down The Royal British Legion.
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Oscar Namechange;1457162 wrote: Oh and for the record... Do you know where I hear the very worst of blatant racism ? Where c**n, N****r, Golliwogs etc are used In abundance?

Not at any far right meeting... no... down The Royal British Legion.


You haven't been to many Freemason events, perhaps.

To most centrists like myself, "far right meeting" and "Royal British Legion" are synonyms.
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Oscar Namechange;1457162 wrote: Oh and for the record... Do you know where I hear the very worst of blatant racism ? Where c**n, N****r, Golliwogs etc are used In abundance?

Not at any far right meeting... no... down The Royal British Legion.


So, why, pray tell, do you hang out with those sorts?
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LarsMac;1457164 wrote: So, why, pray tell, do you hang out with those sorts? The Royal British Legion Is one of the largest charities In this country.

They do an Immense amount of good work. However, I stumble across some racists In that good work and organisation. That's my point, you don't have to support the far right to be racist. There are many closet racists out there In all forms.

The Royal British Legion - Shoulder to shoulder with all who Serve - The Royal British Legion.

Don't worry, I have made It very clear In the past that I find that talk offensive.

eta... I must point out that I've never heard words like that from the younger members under 60 years old. It comes from the 80 year olds who fought In the war and before PC entered their lives. Some just don't understand that such words are now Illegal. Some just don't care. It's also surprising to see how many of those ex forces turn up at far right meetings.
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Oscar Namechange;1457080 wrote: Due to media, the BNP has historically been portrayed as violent thugs.


It's really disingenuous to blame the media for the histrocity of the BNP and its roots in the National front. That fact that the members of this organisation changed tack, smartened themselves up to make themselves seem more electable, doesnt detract from the direction and aims of their politics. That doesnt seem to have changed from the old days of the NF.

Thats where the blame lies
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Snowfire;1457199 wrote: It's really disingenuous to blame the media for the histrocity of the BNP and its roots in the National front. That fact that the members of this organisation changed tack, smartened themselves up to make themselves seem more electable, doesnt detract from the direction and aims of their politics. That doesnt seem to have changed from the old days of the NF.

Thats where the blame lies Nearly every government and politician has sleeze, fraud, double dealings, Illegal wars. Quango's etc against them.

Nick Griffin has remained stoic throughout the last 35 years. People may not agree with his policies but I've yet to see him caught out lying or doing a U turn.

Griffin Is what It says on the tin. I'd be more cautious of Farge for being an unknown quantity.

The media have played a huge part In the BNP and the refusal to give Griffin air time. Most of that blame lies with the libelous New Of The World who are now getting their just deserts.

Do you think for example the timing of rewriting the Equality laws was just a co-incidence? Or maybe, just In time for the general election In the belief that Griffin would fight It all the way to the EU courts using up party funds In legal fee's leaving him unable to stand candidates In every ward?
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Oscar Namechange;1457204 wrote: I've yet to see him caught out lying or doing a U turn.
You cannot be serious, the man's entire life is so U-turned that he might be compared to a spinning top. Just look at his quotes from the 80s and consider his spruced-up posturing of the last few years and then tell me he doesn't U-turn. Would you like me to drag a few of the least savory into the thread for you?
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Post by Bruv »

Oscar Namechange;1457204 wrote: People may not agree with his policies but I've yet to see him caught out lying or doing a U turn.

Griffin Is what It says on the tin.

The media have played a huge part In the BNP and the refusal to give Griffin air time.


He hasn't changed ?

So still the same as he always has been........in a different package.

He should keep himself off TV ..............might help his image.......remember the cringeworthy performance on "Question Time"?
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Bruv;1457207 wrote: He hasn't changed ?

So still the same as he always has been........in a different package.

He should keep himself off TV ..............might help his image.......remember the cringeworthy performance on "Question Time"?


Yes It was and he should never have gone on. The Griffin I know Is far removed from the Griffin who goes on the defensive when he has a camera shoved In his face. That's why for the sake of just 4 votes In the leadership challenge, Brons would have been the better option for the party. Far more rooted In the NF than Griffin but Is extremely adept at dealing with hostile media. Extremely educated and calmer...
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Bruv
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Move to ban BNP members teaching

Post by Bruv »

Oscar Namechange;1457214 wrote: Yes It was and he should never have gone on. The Griffin I know Is far removed from the Griffin who goes on the defensive when he has a camera shoved In his face. That's why for the sake of just 4 votes In the leadership challenge, Brons would have been the better option for the party. Far more rooted In the NF than Griffin but Is extremely adept at dealing with hostile media. Extremely educated and calmer...


Better at manipulating you mean?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Oscar Namechange
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Move to ban BNP members teaching

Post by Oscar Namechange »

Bruv;1457215 wrote: Better at manipulating you mean? No.

I've spent enough time with Mr Brons to say he would have been a better front man for the BNP based on the fact that he's unflapple, concise and true to his roots whatever anyone thinks of him. In fact.... shhhhh I voted for him In the leadership challenge
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon

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