Pledge of Allegiance......

A forum to discuss local issues in Scotland.
User avatar
Chookie
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:55 am

Pledge of Allegiance......

Post by Chookie »



Children’s oath to Queen Marie Woolf, Whitehall Editor

SCHOOLCHILDREN are to be encouraged to swear an oath of allegiance to the Queen and promise to obey the law in ceremonies similar to those for new immigrants.

A review of citizenship by Lord Goldsmith, the former attorney-general, will say this procedure could strengthen children’s understanding of what it means to be British.

One idea is for immigrants’ citizenship ceremonies to be held in schools where children could also take part. Alternatively the event could be included in citizenship studies, which are part of the national curriculum.

Sources close to the review, which was commissioned by Gordon Brown, say the plan is designed to help immigrants and citizens develop a “shared sense of belonging”.

It mirrors the pledge by American schoolchildren to the flag, which is made while standing at attention with the right hand over the heart. The pledge is not compulsory but it is common practice in American schools.

Goldsmith’s report also proposes that citizenship ceremonies for immigrants ought to be held in other public places, such as art galleries, as well as schools.

It recommends immigrants should have “mentors” to teach them British customs and traditions and offer help. The review says they ought to be able to obtain free English lessons.

Critics questioned the value of British-born children swearing allegiance. Lynne Featherstone, the Liberal Democrat youth and equality spokeswoman, said: “I don’t think pledging allegiance to the Queen is the answer to young people’s problems.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 512017.ece


I consider this nothing less than an attack on personal liberties. This is nothing but a move by the Liebour government to enforce their version of "Britishness" on a largely unwilling populace (and that's not counting those of us in Scotland, Wales and N.I. who have no desire to fit into any governments' wishes). Finally, for those idiot politicians who didn't know, we have managed without this bullshyt for 300 years.
An ye harm none, do what ye will....
gmc
Posts: 13566
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:44 am

Pledge of Allegiance......

Post by gmc »

Chookie;800148 wrote: I consider this nothing less than an attack on personal liberties. This is nothing but a move by the Liebour government to enforce their version of "Britishness" on a largely unwilling populace (and that's not counting those of us in Scotland, Wales and N.I. who have no desire to fit into any governments' wishes). Finally, for those idiot politicians who didn't know, we have managed without this bullshyt for 300 years.


Most definitely Unbritish, this truly deserves a traditional British response to those in authority F--k )(F.

Gordon Brown seems determined to destroy the labour party in scotland and finish the job TB started. bet you 50p he loses his seat at the next election.

http://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers.php?showme=1205&
AA grumpy
Posts: 211
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:56 pm

Pledge of Allegiance......

Post by AA grumpy »

hi im AA grumpy and ive just joined the FG

this is just another example of the politically correct loony left beard and sandalls mob at it again!!!
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

Pledge of Allegiance......

Post by Accountable »

Weird. Such a pledge should come of some kind of upswell of nationalism or something. It can't be forced, certainly not in this day and age.



Funny bit o' trivia: the original author of our pledge, Francis Bellamy, was a socialist. :wah: All our rightest of the right wing are up in arms because Obama won't take a socialist pledge.
User avatar
AussiePam
Posts: 9898
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:57 pm

Pledge of Allegiance......

Post by AussiePam »

As a good and generous Republican Aussie girl, I rather like the allegedly once popular - in the olden days - boys' club after dinner toast:

Gentlemen - I give you the queen!.

I also equally generously give you all her offspring.

But I've always kind of envied the way most Americans leap up to their feet, hand on heart, when their National Anthem is sung. Wouldn't mind doing that here. For just a short moment it's a celebration and a reminder of what binds a nation together, even though we are otherwise diverse.
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"

gmc
Posts: 13566
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:44 am

Pledge of Allegiance......

Post by gmc »

AA grumpy;800183 wrote: hi im AA grumpy and ive just joined the FG

this is just another example of the politically correct loony left beard and sandalls mob at it again!!!


Don't get confused about this. This is not left wing politics in any shape or form. You're not going to see any of a left wing disposition swearing allegiance to the queen any time soon, The very idea is anathema. This isn't loony left or anything remotely left wing this is right wing tory fascism coming from new labour. Should really be the new tories.

Course it could be a cunning plan to get rid of the monarchy?

posted by accountable

Weird. Such a pledge should come of some kind of upswell of nationalism or something. It can't be forced, certainly not in this day and age.

Funny bit o' trivia: the original author of our pledge, Francis Bellamy, was a socialist. All our rightest of the right wing are up in arms because Obama won't take a socialist pledge.


They probably don't know their own history and can't get the irony of it. (

Maybe you should have stuck with the original

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."


Interesting to note a socialist was someone that believed in liberty and justice for all. How perceptions change.
User avatar
Galbally
Posts: 9755
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:26 pm

Pledge of Allegiance......

Post by Galbally »

In Ireland we tend to be far more overtly nationalistic than our British cousins, who seem to have a lot of hang ups in regards to identity ect. So when they play the national anthem here, which people tend to do at the end of a lot of events and dos etc etc, (and yes it can seem a bit silly sometimes) people all stand up and sing our national anthem, as most people here have a very strong sense that they are Irish, and that this actually means something.

I think like most people that this idea is not very realistic given the attitude of most modern British people to the monarchy, the country, and their government. The question I would ask is what practical measures people would suggest could be used to re-invigorate the idea of a shared British national identity and destiny in a positive sense?

Leading on from that the question has to be posed what do people in Britain think their country is, what is Britain, what makes it British, who is British, and what way should all that be expressed?
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"



Le Rochefoucauld.



"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."



My dad 1986.
gmc
Posts: 13566
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:44 am

Pledge of Allegiance......

Post by gmc »

Galbally;800387 wrote: In Ireland we tend to be far more overtly nationalistic than our British cousins, who seem to have a lot of hang ups in regards to identity ect. So when they play the national anthem here, which people tend to do at the end of a lot of events and dos etc etc, (and yes it can seem a bit silly sometimes) people all stand up and sing our national anthem, as most people here have a very strong sense that they are Irish, and that this actually means something.

I think like most people that this idea is not very realistic given the attitude of most modern British people to the monarchy, the country, and their government. The question I would ask is what practical measures people would suggest could be used to re-invigorate the idea of a shared British national identity and destiny in a positive sense?

Leading on from that the question has to be posed what do people in Britain think their country is, what is Britain, what makes it British, who is British, and what way should all that be expressed?


Best leave the subject alone. If you ask most English people their nationality they tend to say english first and british second-scots and welsh do the same. Indeed to many england and britain were synonymous to the extent that up until fairly recently the english used the union jack rather than the english flag at internationals, which really used to annoy. It's nice they've stopped that I don't see why they shouldn't be proud iof being english. The only ones I know that insist in being called british tend to be unionists from northern ireland.

We've always been a mongrel nation with vastly different cultural heritage up and down the country. North england and south east england are very different, lancashire is different from yorkshire and manchester very different from newcastle. Different tribes they even talk differently and there are distinct cultures. A kind of multicultural unity that was forged in blood (except with the scots we had to be bribed). We're also incredibly aggressive if we have to be.

We don't actually need some moron telling us what it means to be british, least of all the corrupt lying hypocritical set of politicians like we have at the moment.

If they keep this up all that will happen is that scotland and wales will become more nationalistic. cos we already feel detached from westminster anyway. I seriously think gordon brown and alasdair darling will lose their seats at the next election at which point labour will be well and truly stuffed.

The monarchy is tolerated because the alternatives to a constitutional monarchy are not appealing, but if they start trying to get people to swear an oath of allegiance the response I think will be a resounding get stuffed.

It also raises the question of whether we want a whole pile of immigrants that refuse to accept our culture. I suppose being tolerant of others is typically british but that doesn't mean we'll put up with a load of crap. If some won't accept our values then why do we put up with it. It's not british to stand for being pushed around.

Return to “Scotland”