Freemasons/Masons

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Hawke
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Post by Hawke »

I realize that they are not terribly "ancient", but I cannot find a better forum for this subject.

I have recently developed an interest in learning more about the Masons. I learned a few days ago from my mother that my grandfather was a high-ranking member, and it has sparked a curiousity in me to learn more. Therefore, I pose the following to you folks: Can you tell me what Masonism is about, as the information I can find is either purely speculative or outright falsehoods.

Best Regards,

FH
koan
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Post by koan »

This is actually the perfect forum area. The Freemasons are supposed to have originated from the Knights Templar. The Knights Templar are supposed to have acquired a significant amount of ancient knowledge.

A good book for research is "The Hiram Key" written by two Freemasons. I had an ongoing debate with a Mason regarding what they actually do. It is rare that you will get too much info from a live one who didn't write a book. Some secrecy there. Got him backed into a corner a few times though. Couldn't come up with any reasonable answer to some of the questions.

Yes they do a lot of good charity work. But what else?

The Illuminati are supposed to be an elite group of Freemasons of high order who have been able to influence the direction of the new world. Not sure if I buy this.

Being a woman, it is a lot harder to find out the intimate details of the Order. Maybe now that I am a construction worker they will consider me half man and let me in on the deal? I've studied Rosicrucianism too. San Jose, California. Not too underground anymore. I think the knowledge is similar but the technique is different. Masons have BIG ritual segments. Apparently you don't have to know what the ritual means as they have mostly forgotten the true meanings anyway...you just have to memorize it. I find memorization far more difficult than understanding something. Might make a bad Mason after all.
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Lon
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Post by Lon »

Masonry is a Fraternal Organisation that began it's Speculative form in England in 1717. The first Lodge in the U.S. was established 1730. It is not the super secret organisation that many claim even though the members take an oath (symbolic) to not reveal the ritual of the degrees. Membership is not solicited and is open to Jews, Hindus, Buddist and all faiths. Belief in a Supreme Being is required. The tools that were used by ancient craftsman (masons) are given symbolic meaning that members can use to try and lead an honest forthright life. There are three basic degrees in Free Masonry with Master Mason being the highest. You will hear of someone being referred to as a 32 degree Mason. The 4th to 32nd degrees are received through either the York Rite or Scottish Rite and are symbolic. The 33rd Degree is Honorary and is bestowed on very few Masons for exemplary services to the Order and Humanity in general. All aspects of Masonry have been noted for their charitable good works. The Shriners (A social spinoff of York & Scottish Rite Masons) have a series of Children's Hospitals and Burn Centers throughout the U.S. where the services are completely free to those without funds.

There have been over the years many hateful and mis-informed things said about Masonry. A Google Search on the net will bear that out. Membership has declined in recent years due to all the conflicting time requirements of the family. At one time, Lodge Night was the thing. I have been a member of the Fraternity for over 40 years and the lessons of Free Masonry have served me well
LoveMama
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Post by LoveMama »

Fyrehawke wrote: I realize that they are not terribly "ancient", but I cannot find a better forum for this subject.

I have recently developed an interest in learning more about the Masons. I learned a few days ago from my mother that my grandfather was a high-ranking member, and it has sparked a curiousity in me to learn more. Therefore, I pose the following to you folks: Can you tell me what Masonism is about, as the information I can find is either purely speculative or outright falsehoods.

Best Regards,

FH


Fryehawke, THere is a ton of information on the Internet about Masonry......so won't try to fill you in here. My father, a wonderful man was a 32nd degree Mason and a member of the Al Bahr Shrine in San Diego, CA. From what I understand, almost every President of the United State's have been Masons. My dad was very proud to be one and was the president elect of his Chapter when he passed away.

xxxxxxxxxoooooooo

mama
koan
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Post by koan »

Even though they *apparently* don't have any metaphysical connections, two Freemasons wrote a book suggesting that a lot of ritual in the order is based on the lost rite of king making from ancient Egypt.

Just a thought. Secrets are still safe...even from members of the order.
koan
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Post by koan »

KlatunIckto wrote: HAHAHAHA The Illuminati my _ ss!

Your laughter proves nothing.

Maybe you are related to whats her name after all :wah:

I doubt it since I read and can maintain sequential thought.

Knights per se they were Solomons most trusted inner sanctum guards,who had nothing LMAO :yh_rotfl to do with the knights templar org.

Interesting.

The understanding is there of what we memorize,it is however the lost knowledge which are the true secrets we hope to find,and thus understand.

As I've said before, I'm not good at memorization. Probably would make a lousy mason, if they would have me. Are "you" actively seeking for the lost meanings or did ya all give up?

The secrecy is very easy to understand...The veil of secrecy remained with the order even after the meeting at a pub in 1717 to consider expansion,and reorganization which would take them ultimately to the new world.

Crowley et al made a point of blowing apart most of the secrets in the world. Nobody got burned at the stake. Hasn't happened for a long time, I believe.

Other organizations would spring forth from the order with similar rites,words,and signs but none could trace themselves back to King Solomons inner Santum Guards but they,we, the Free.& Accepted Masons.

Must be nice to be "free & accepted", are the others not?

The only metaphysical/occult/mysterious that you can link to it is the 6th,7th,8th books of Moses these rites were given him at the burning bush by God.


I giggle everytime I think of Moses having epiphanies from a burning bush. Thank God for penicillin.
Hawke
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Post by Hawke »

People, please treat each other with a modicum of respect. Please realize that we all come from different cultural and educational backgrounds, which may lead to a different corpus of information and knowledge. If you find information that is inaccurate or patently false, politely point that out and, if possible, point to an informative source where the poster can learn more about the subject.

We are, more or less, all adults here. Let's treat each other that way, shall we?
koan
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Post by koan »

KlatunIckto,

:yh_silly

I know you are but what am I? :wah:

Everyone has their beliefs challenged or belittled at some point in life. You make it sound like I'm the only one who thinks the masons have secrets. Come now.
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abbey
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Post by abbey »

I dont know about the States & Canada but in Britain its really difficult to get into the Masons, you have to be quite well connected to get in & if you're not you get "blackballed" (sounds painful does'nt it)

Personally i don't agree with any "organisation" where the members are in a position where they can use signs & handshakes to get them further in careers.

I also think its wrong that people in authority are Masons, police, judges etc.. I'm not saying it happens, but the thought that a certain signal could sway a judge makes my blood boil. :mad:
A Karenina
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Post by A Karenina »

Lon and Jack, I have a somewhat dumb question for you. My dad was a Mason, and he really loved it. He was a Shriner as well.



I have some vague memories of him talking about it. These memories have been bothering me lately...is membership a family tradition? Should I encourage my son to go to a lodge and talk with some of the people there? It seems like my dad used to talk about the men in our family being involved for a long way back.



Thanks. :)
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.

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Bothwell
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Post by Bothwell »

No Koan you are a woman and therefore could not join. In the Uk you also cannot ask to join, you have to be invited. As has been said before thre is a lot of crap talked about the Masons here in the UK, they are a charitable organisation and especially so to their own members. there are however some lodges that IMO should be avoided, these are the so called "Closed" lodges. These are for example, police lodges where it is perfectly possible for a junior police rank to be of a more senior rank on the square.
"I have done my duty. I thank God for it!"
koan
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Post by koan »

Bothwell wrote: No Koan you are a woman and therefore could not join. In the Uk you also cannot ask to join, you have to be invited. As has been said before thre is a lot of crap talked about the Masons here in the UK, they are a charitable organisation and especially so to their own members. there are however some lodges that IMO should be avoided, these are the so called "Closed" lodges. These are for example, police lodges where it is perfectly possible for a junior police rank to be of a more senior rank on the square.


Hence my flippant attitude towards the order. I have a distaste for boys clubs, having come from the film industry. I'm sure the order has many good things about it but it is a boys club and it reeks of cheese to me for that reason. There are many ways to acheive the things that the club has to offer. Too bad they think they are better off being exclusive...usually breeds vanity.

I'm overtired right now. Twelve days in a row of physical labour. Please forgive my shortness.
A Karenina
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Post by A Karenina »

koan wrote: Hence my flippant attitude towards the order. I have a distaste for boys clubs, having come from the film industry. I'm sure the order has many good things about it but it is a boys club and it reeks of cheese to me for that reason. There are many ways to acheive the things that the club has to offer. Too bad they think they are better off being exclusive...usually breeds vanity.



I'm overtired right now. Twelve days in a row of physical labour. Please forgive my shortness.
Hopefully you can get some rest soon. :)



There probably are many ways to accomplish the good that the Masons do. But they choose to do it their own way. Seems to me it provides opportunity for men to develop their friendships as well as help their communities.



I belonged to a community-based club when I was a housewife. It was all women. I enjoyed going to those meetings - I needed the time with my own sex. The men were totally supportive of our projects and showed that by helping out with fund raisers. They never said we were vain or a girls club. They just seemed to think what we did was cool - like running a summer camp for kids with cancer.



I'm confused on your views.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.

Aristotle
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Bill Sikes
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Post by Bill Sikes »

abbey wrote: I also think its wrong that people in authority are Masons, police, judges etc.. I'm not saying it happens, but the thought that a certain signal could sway a judge makes my blood boil.


It should. It's forbidden, in that context.
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Bill Sikes
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Post by Bill Sikes »

koan wrote: I have a distaste for boys clubs


Why? Do you have a similar distaste for (say) the W.I.?
koan
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Post by koan »

Bill,

IYDSUAITIWV

The masons I have met and conversed with in person have all shown vanity and spoken down to me both as a woman and an non initiate. This may be a poor sampling from the pot but my opinion is based on experience. The proof of their arguements were usually in the line of "I know because I am a Freemason of the highest order and I don't need to prove my point of view. End of discussion." I am sure there are very wonderful Freemasons in the world I have not personally met them.

Somehow I seem to have been made an antimasonist. This is not the case. I just find a giggle factor in some of the ritual and, since this is not a local community based social group but a large international association that has claimed to have a very good system of gaining self knowledge and perfecting the soul...I think it's a bit different than the group you mentioned Karenina. Did you have pinky rings and secret handshakes? Did your group contain most of the prominent leaders and shapers of society?
A Karenina
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Post by A Karenina »

koan wrote: Somehow I seem to have been made an antimasonist. This is not the case. I just find a giggle factor in some of the ritual and, since this is not a local community based social group but a large international association that has claimed to have a very good system of gaining self knowledge and perfecting the soul...I think it's a bit different than the group you mentioned Karenina. Did you have pinky rings and secret handshakes? Did your group contain most of the prominent leaders and shapers of society?
We didn't have secret handshakes, no. I would imagine that there were prominent women in the club - Junior Women's, and Women's are national clubs. But my neighborhood was your routine suburbia. No famous people.



I can understand being turned off by the Masons you've met that talked at you rather than to you. Unfortunately, I don't think that attitude is confined to one club. Neither do you, I realize you're not saying that.



Still, I am confused about what precisely is bothering you. Is it the rituals? The secrets? Are you thinking that the actions of the group is not living up to its stated purpose?
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.

Aristotle
koan
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Post by koan »

Karenina,

I had no idea how I got put on the defensive here and it was bothering me too. Read my first post. That is what I had to say about this topic. Then Klatunickto jumped in to say I was full of crap. That is how I got on the defensive. There are metaphysical teachings in the Freemason rituals. Freemasons have said it themselves, except a few who like to tell me I'm full of crap. Someone is lying here. Either the Masons who have written books tracing the metaphysics and those who admit to them or KlatunIckto and others of his ilk who like to pretend that there is not. What bothers me is lies. I hate being lied to. So...which is the real story? It can't be both. Maybe someone would like to clarify. I am not upset about the Orders existence. I couldn't care less. I have found my own path(s) and am doing quite well without being a Mason. I do care when people are lying and then tell me I am full of it.

That is what is bothering me.

But then KlatunIckto proves my point by way of his response and by not being here anymore to actually discuss the matter. I wonder who has the baggage?
weeder
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Post by weeder »

Secrets???? Ha Ha Ha Who would waste the littlest amount of time.. showing the least amount of interest, in finding out what their secrets are? Who would want to know humans whose desire is to belong to a group that feels such pride at maintaing secrets? Like The Little Rascals. Remember thos ridiculous hats they used to wear? Things that arent nice.. hide in darkness and secrecy. Good things are bathed in light. Humans have proven over and over again.. That when they are left unsupervised, in a group, they eventually become cruel. That is why we are always at war. What a shame.
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koan
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Post by koan »

AHA!

See, I am not alone. Thank you weeder. :yh_bigsmi
A Karenina
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Post by A Karenina »

koan wrote: Karenina,



I had no idea how I got put on the defensive here and it was bothering me too.
I hate when that happens to me. Argh!





koan wrote: What bothers me is lies. I hate being lied to.
Understandably so. I was getting bogged down in the boys club part, and not getting what you were saying. Thanks for the clarification.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.

Aristotle
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capt_buzzard
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Post by capt_buzzard »

Koan is just great when it comes these old religions and ancient wisdom ect.

:-6
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capt_buzzard
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Post by capt_buzzard »

Hawke wrote: People, please treat each other with a modicum of respect. Please realize that we all come from different cultural and educational backgrounds, which may lead to a different corpus of information and knowledge. If you find information that is inaccurate or patently false, politely point that out and, if possible, point to an informative source where the poster can learn more about the subject.



We are, more or less, all adults here. Let's treat each other that way, shall we?Thank you for bringing this up.
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buttercup
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Post by buttercup »

well i hope this does not kick off bad feeling, it is mearly my opinion of masons that i would like to share

i grew up in glasgow, all the masons i knew & there were many, were protestant & rangers supporters & biggots

all the men in my family are members,all the women - eastern star - not me

i have no religion, i have none due to the fact that growing up in that environment is wrong, what i was taught was hatred

the masons do a lot of charitable work - yes i agree but to say they are all pillars of society, dont make me laugh

im not saying every lodge in the world is the same, im just saying i know from personal experience what some are like & most of them include criminal members, who's inviting them in - the police, judges?

its all hypocracy & a crock of ****

there secrets are that they know how to build pyrimids, who cares?

gets off soapbox & goes looking for a dictionary, ooooh how i miss spellcheck :D
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spot
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Post by spot »

In corrupt society, freemasonry is even more offensive than it is in the UK. I can't speak for the last twenty years but I have no reason to believe it's changed. In England, members demonstrably help each other in furthering their careers. Contracts go to the salesmen with the masonic handshake and the lodge connections, especially in local government. Anything related to ritual is incidental by comparison. The reason people join it to get on in the world materially. As for Italy, it's the common meeting ground for the military, police, church and mafia, where the country gets carved up. As with Buttercup, I'm from a masonic family. I got the invite. I turned it down.

In my County, you didn't get to run a school - or even reach deputy head - unless you were a mason. All the appointments went through the office of the Director of Education who proposed, filtered and appointed. The boys at my school even nicknamed our headmaster Boaz (a masonic password of a lower order), it was so blatant. You didn't get to Chief Constable unless you were a mason, nor far up the plainclothes Police Intelligence branch. There was a distinct targetting of the points of power, and I'm quite sure it was conscious. The member list was filled with lawyers, and that's just for the open lodges which appeared in the County Member directories. Nobody official ever tried to prove conspiracy, nationally, it would have been too big a mess to have out in the open and, besides, there must have been pressure points among the Great and the Good to put a rapid end to any attempt.

If you consider how many journalists tried over the years to discover the membership list of the Italian P2 lodge, and failed, it gives an indication of how well they protect themselves and how great the need is that they should.

The ritual, here at least, is eighteenth century as amended, the intention has nothing to do with Medieval Guilds, or companionship, or good living, or altruism, it's a self help group with political overtones that's very effective and has been for generations.
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john8pies
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Post by john8pies »

Hawke, can I recommend you get hold of a definitive book about the masons like The Brotherhood. There are so many different facets to the whole thing, eg one of my uncles is a Mason and swears there is nothing wrong with it at all, it is totally open and all they do is raise money for charities. Others disagre!
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Lon
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Post by Lon »

spot wrote: In corrupt society, freemasonry is even more offensive than it is in the UK. I can't speak for the last twenty years but I have no reason to believe it's changed. In England, members demonstrably help each other in furthering their careers. Contracts go to the salesmen with the masonic handshake and the lodge connections, especially in local government. Anything related to ritual is incidental by comparison. The reason people join it to get on in the world materially. As for Italy, it's the common meeting ground for the military, police, church and mafia, where the country gets carved up. As with Buttercup, I'm from a masonic family. I got the invite. I turned it down.



In my County, you didn't get to run a school - or even reach deputy head - unless you were a mason. All the appointments went through the office of the Director of Education who proposed, filtered and appointed. The boys at my school even nicknamed our headmaster Boaz (a masonic password of a lower order), it was so blatant. You didn't get to Chief Constable unless you were a mason, nor far up the plainclothes Police Intelligence branch. There was a distinct targetting of the points of power, and I'm quite sure it was conscious. The member list was filled with lawyers, and that's just for the open lodges which appeared in the County Member directories. Nobody official ever tried to prove conspiracy, nationally, it would have been too big a mess to have out in the open and, besides, there must have been pressure points among the Great and the Good to put a rapid end to any attempt.



If you consider how many journalists tried over the years to discover the membership list of the Italian P2 lodge, and failed, it gives an indication of how well they protect themselves and how great the need is that they should.



The ritual, here at least, is eighteenth century as amended, the intention has nothing to do with Medieval Guilds, or companionship, or good living, or altruism, it's a self help group with political overtones that's very effective and has been for generations.
Much ado about nothing!! What's the difference between a group of Anarchists, Liberals, Conservatives, Knights of Columbus, Boy Scouts, Feminists, etc. etc. supporting one another and Masons supporting one another? It must be the not so secret secrets. There is, and always will be groups with common interests, support one another.
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capt_buzzard
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Post by capt_buzzard »

http://www.irish-freemasons.org/



We got here too folks
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capt_buzzard
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Post by capt_buzzard »

Isn't the Ku Klux Klan part of this group?
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Lon
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Post by Lon »

capt_buzzard wrote: Isn't the Ku Klux Klan part of this group?
There were Masons that did belong to the KKK, but one organization has nothing to do with the other.
gimli3
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Post by gimli3 »

Can you be a Mason and also a Christian?

I think not!

Can you be a Mason and also a churchgoer?

Certainly! My church (CE) has leaders who are Masons.

Something wrong here, I think.

:-5
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Lon
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Post by Lon »

Masonry is open to all faiths. One is only asked to believe in a Supreme Being.
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Post by alobar51 »

koan;14186 wrote: KlatunIckto,

:yh_silly

I know you are but what am I? :wah:

Everyone has their beliefs challenged or belittled at some point in life. You make it sound like I'm the only one who thinks the masons have secrets. Come now.


Secrets, yes.

My first real exposure to the Masons was through a book called Freemasonry vs. Catholicism, given to me by one of my more influential teachers, described by some as a Catholic mystic. Whether she was or not, I can't say, but she was highly intuitive, was so conservative a catholic she thought Vatican II was the work of the devil, and reportedly had stygmata on Good Friday.(I never witnessed this)

Her life's work was fighting the Masons.

Extreme as her passion was on this subject, I don't reject all of it out of hand. She was highly intelligent, very well read, and not given to irrationality.

They are a little too secretive for my comfort, and they do have many unanswered questions. But then, so do the Catholics.
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Marie5656
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Post by Marie5656 »

My home town, Batavia NY had it's own freemasons...and apparently a man was murdered for writing some sort of expose on them. I never hear of this story till this past summer, when my husband was watching a program on the History Channel about them.

http://www.padfield.com/1993/morgan.html
koan
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Post by koan »

What fun it is to read threads again from so long ago. Dec 2004. I had completely forgotten about KlatunIckto. I was rather sad to see him go.

The Mason conspiracies never really die, I think anything with secrecy needlessly invites it. I do think it moves in waves though. Probably based on the release of new books which get folks riled up about the ideas then it dies down again. They must be admired to some degree for having maintained their status as a public curiosity for so long.
clearmind69
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Post by clearmind69 »

The masons always seemed to be about money. The all seeing eye in the pyramid upon the dollar bill.

Other than that,mere speculation. I dont know too much about them.

:-6 :-6 :-6 :-6

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