Let's discuss Congress' Healthcare Plan

All items relating to Healthcare: Medical insurance, company policies, insurance coverage, policy costs, and more!
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chonsigirl
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Post by chonsigirl »

Omni_Skittles;1224304 wrote: It's a new time, a new world... what's our excuse now?


The Native American may have a large amount of money spent on them, but it is channeled through the BIA-a government agency. It doesn't work very well for them-makes me shudder thinking they want to run a country's health care plan.

Also, Native Americans have specific physical ailments that are more prevalent than in the general population. Those need taken care of.



You have done well, Skittles. You want some links to something specific, PM me.



*off topic*

Chief Ross, ah, Texas Cherokee. I did a presentation on him in grad school. Always a sure winner presentation when you start with a pic' of Jackson to get the crowd booing............................:wah:
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Omni_Skittles
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Post by Omni_Skittles »

chonsigirl;1227998 wrote: The Native American may have a large amount of money spent on them, but it is channeled through the BIA-a government agency. It doesn't work very well for them-makes me shudder thinking they want to run a country's health care plan.

Also, Native Americans have specific physical ailments that are more prevalent than in the general population. Those need taken care of.



You have done well, Skittles. You want some links to something specific, PM me.



*off topic*

Chief Ross, ah, Texas Cherokee. I did a presentation on him in grad school. Always a sure winner presentation when you start with a pic' of Jackson to get the crowd booing............................:wah:
Indian affairs... lol that alone could cause me to scream.





haha oh jackson... sadly i don't even think most navajos even know about his little ordeals with the indians... lol they just blame it on the white man... which one? who knows... but i'm proud of our language not being understood in ww2 :). can't tell you much else i'm proud of though...
Smoke signals ftw!
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chonsigirl
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Post by chonsigirl »

Thank you hoppy, I am going to look through some of it this afternoon. A very long document.

Lots of violence at the Town Hall Meetings- assaults on the regular people attending them. One congressman shouting at a doctor who had made numerous requests for a meeting, at the town hall that congressman should have not lost his temper and asked first who the questioner was before his tirade. A union physically attacking a questioner, caught on camera too.

I hope D.C. is paying attention, there is not a consensus among the American public about this proposed health care plan.
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Post by Clodhopper »

Lots of violence at the Town Hall Meetings- assaults on the regular people attending them. One congressman shouting at a doctor who had made numerous requests for a meeting, at the town hall that congressman should have not lost his temper and asked first who the questioner was before his tirade. A union physically attacking a questioner, caught on camera too.


Wow! Been following this debate with interest, but the comment above really brings it home how tied up with your conception of your country the healthcare issue is.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"

Lone voice: "I'm not."
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Post by Accountable »

Liberty is important. Handing over decisionmaking is handing over liberty. Little decisions, little liberty. Big decisions, more liberty. We are deciding if we want to cede a portion of our liberty not only to this government, but to governments to come.



It's important.
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Post by Clodhopper »

Liberty is important. Handing over decisionmaking is handing over liberty. Little decisions, little liberty. Big decisions, more liberty. We are deciding if we want to cede a portion of our liberty not only to this government, but to governments to come.

It's important.


Interesting that you see it as an encroachment on your liberty. I'm not saying you are wrong to do so: the USA is not the UK and the systems and circumstances are different.

Here, I think it is viewed as an increase in your liberty in that all citizens are freed from the fear of medical calamity. (edit - sorry - freed from the financial consequences of medical calamity)
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"

Lone voice: "I'm not."
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Post by gmc »

Clodhopper;1228170 wrote: Interesting that you see it as an encroachment on your liberty. I'm not saying you are wrong to do so: the USA is not the UK and the systems and circumstances are different.

Here, I think it is viewed as an increase in your liberty in that all citizens are freed from the fear of medical calamity. (edit - sorry - freed from the financial consequences of medical calamity)


Or maybe that we perceive it as having a right to demand certain things from our government? Was watching larry king, Americans do really seem to be getting worked up about this but the discussions don't seem to be about what to do but rather whether you should- Maybe you need to decide that first.

found this-might help explain some of the different attitudes-assuming it is interest of course.

Conflicting Views of the Attlee Governments

I think it would be fair to say most people in this country would be extremely hostile to the NHS being privatised. We look at the situation in the states and wonder why you accept it.
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Post by fuzzywuzzy »

Accountable;1228159 wrote: Liberty is important. Handing over decisionmaking is handing over liberty. Little decisions, little liberty. Big decisions, more liberty. We are deciding if we want to cede a portion of our liberty not only to this government, but to governments to come.



It's important.


HOw is the health care plan handing over liberty? and how could it be any worse than handing over your liberty to war?
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Post by fuzzywuzzy »

I still don't get it? How do Americans have a problem with every American being able to access a doctor? I'm sorry I thought (until I went to your good country ) that everyone had it..................I was stunned to find that people never saw a doctor because they weren't allowed/entitled to ..................WTF?

And why are my good friends (some on this forum ) not entitled to see a medical practitioner? what kind of country are you running? ....I thought all men were created equal? Obviously not in the States
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Post by Accountable »

fuzzywuzzy;1229068 wrote: HOw is the health care plan handing over liberty? and how could it be any worse than handing over your liberty to war?My post was about the right to make decisions for oneself.



fuzzywuzzy;1229074 wrote: I still don't get it? How do Americans have a problem with every American being able to access a doctor? I'm sorry I thought (until I went to your good country ) that everyone had it..................I was stunned to find that people never saw a doctor because they weren't allowed/entitled to ..................WTF?



And why are my good friends (some on this forum ) not entitled to see a medical practitioner? what kind of country are you running? ....I thought all men were created equal? Obviously not in the StatesThat's the myth that not even the supporters are saying, yet lots of people are inferring. Everyone has access to doctors. People are allowed/entitled to see a doctor.
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Post by Accountable »

The debate has changed from changing healthcare to changing the rules insurance companies must follow, yet the bills are still over 1000 pages each. :confused:



They want insurance companies to be unable to refuse to cover a person based on a pre-existing condition. Fine. Write ONE law on that.



They want to cap out-of-pocket expenses a patient has to pay for healthcare. Fine. Write ONE law on that.



They want to cap what an insurance company charges for coverage. Fine. Write ONE law on that.

Thay want a public option for people that can't afford healthcare? Medicare such a wonderful plan. Expand it to include those people.



Too much extraneous BS can be hidden in a 1000+ page bill. How many pages was the original Social Security bill? Medicare? I'll bet the two together were less than 1000 pages.
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Post by Accountable »

Here's the reason I will fight against this program. This is the President's townhall meeting yesterday.



C-SPAN Video Player - Pres. Obama Health Care Townhall in Portsmouth, NH



I'd love to edit it for you but I can't. At 44:25 into the program (44 minutes, 25 seconds) President Obama states "I have not said I was a single payer supporter." He lied.



YouTube - Obama on single payer health insurance



I don't like being played. He wants single-payer and imo is laying the groundwork to get there.



YouTube - Barack Obama: I Want Universal Health Care, Not Private Insurance (2007) [Naked Emperor News]



This is the camel's nose under the tent.
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Post by gmc »

Accountable;1229100 wrote: The debate has changed from changing healthcare to changing the rules insurance companies must follow, yet the bills are still over 1000 pages each. :confused:



They want insurance companies to be unable to refuse to cover a person based on a pre-existing condition. Fine. Write ONE law on that.



They want to cap out-of-pocket expenses a patient has to pay for healthcare. Fine. Write ONE law on that.



They want to cap what an insurance company charges for coverage. Fine. Write ONE law on that.

Thay want a public option for people that can't afford healthcare? Medicare such a wonderful plan. Expand it to include those people.



Too much extraneous BS can be hidden in a 1000+ page bill. How many pages was the original Social Security bill? Medicare? I'll bet the two together were less than 1000 pages.


The beveridge report in 1942 that led on to the welfare state was 300 pages long of which only five related to healthcare. dunno about the act itself. I donl;t see how you can do it unless each state is left to run it's own bit of the system.



quick glimpse of some of the arguments pro and con-bet you recognise some of them.

1946 National Insurance Act

I must tell you that a socialist policy is abhorrent to British ideas on freedom. There is to be one State, to which all are to be obedient in every act of their lives. This State, once in power, will prescribe for everyone: where they are to work, what they are to work at, where they may go and what they may say, what views they are to hold, where their wives are to queue up for the State ration, and what education their children are to receive. A socialist state could not afford to suffer opposition - no socialist system can be established without a political police. They (the Labour government) would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo.


and the british people said F))) Off we're not that gullible.
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Post by Clodhopper »

Interesting article on the Attlee govt. Thanks.

We tend to forget these days how poor the vast bulk of the population was as recently as the '20s and '30s. Perhaps why that's why we and the Americans have such different views on the issue.
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Post by chonsigirl »

AARP isn't happy with the plan.

I bet the Post Office is wondering at Obama's statement yesterday.................it gave me a laugh this morning.
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Post by Accountable »

gmc;1229118 wrote: The beveridge report in 1942 that led on to the welfare state was 300 pages long of which only five related to healthcare. dunno about the act itself. I donl;t see how you can do it unless each state is left to run it's own bit of the system. I'm all for that. Our Constitution supports that.

gmc wrote: quick glimpse of some of the arguments pro and con-bet you recognise some of them.



1946 National Insurance Act







and the british people said F))) Off we're not that gullible.
Clement Atlee wrote: Our policy was not a reformed capitalism but progress towards a democratic socialism.

I don't support democratic socialism for the USA.
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Post by Accountable »

chonsigirl;1229122 wrote: AARP isn't happy with the plan.



I bet the Post Office is wondering at Obama's statement yesterday.................it gave me a laugh this morning.
That was pretty funny, pointing to the post office as a model of what a gov't program will do. :wah:
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Post by Accountable »

I found the Social Security act of 1935 original text. I don't know what the original font was, but when I pasted it into my word processor it was 46 pages. Medicare is the 1965 amendment to that act.



Today, the Act is posted in volumes. :(:mad:
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Post by gmc »

Accountable;1229126 wrote: I'm all for that. Our Constitution supports that.



I don't support democratic socialism for the USA.


We did you see, That's the difference although nowadays and if you said the NHS was a socialist policy to people nowadays many would give you blank looks. But they won't have it privatised. Most of the time people don't really bother about politics but get really worked up when they want something to change and god help any politician in their way. Maybe Americans are beginning to feel that way about healthcare and your ruling elites have really made a mess of the economy. Interesting times as they say.
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Post by gmc »

BBC NEWS | Americas | Are US healthcare protests genuine?

Are US healthcare protests genuine?


Are they?
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Post by chonsigirl »

Yes, they are.

Why would you think they are not?

I know several people who go to these events all the time-the tea party in Annapolis, the meeting the other day in Hagerstown. Real people, real questions. And the questions are not being answered. It is becoming surreal, that if you dare to ask a question, you are being labeled something radical. That is fear, fear from proponents of the health care plan, union people, and the represenatives themselves hosting the meetings-after all, if they do not answer these questions, they shold be voted out next term. And my representative, the coward, wouldn't hold a town meeting at all!

The town halls and tea parties are the average American out there voicing their questions. As with any large group, you pick up on the fringe-those making a buck out of it (and why not, free enterprise and all) like the one man who was selling buttons and was assaulted by union people. (pro-health care)

The example of the doctor who asked the represenative for an answer, and got yelled at and told to call his office for a meeting-then it was later found out that doctor had called for a meeting several times. And was refused one.

These events will continue, until the Congress and President begin to listen. Otherwise, I can see there being initiatives started-referendums, recall elections, etc.
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Post by gmc »

chonsigirl;1229993 wrote: Yes, they are.

Why would you think they are not?

I know several people who go to these events all the time-the tea party in Annapolis, the meeting the other day in Hagerstown. Real people, real questions. And the questions are not being answered. It is becoming surreal, that if you dare to ask a question, you are being labeled something radical. That is fear, fear from proponents of the health care plan, union people, and the represenatives themselves hosting the meetings-after all, if they do not answer these questions, they shold be voted out next term. And my representative, the coward, wouldn't hold a town meeting at all!

The town halls and tea parties are the average American out there voicing their questions. As with any large group, you pick up on the fringe-those making a buck out of it (and why not, free enterprise and all) like the one man who was selling buttons and was assaulted by union people. (pro-health care)

The example of the doctor who asked the represenative for an answer, and got yelled at and told to call his office for a meeting-then it was later found out that doctor had called for a meeting several times. And was refused one.

These events will continue, until the Congress and President begin to listen. Otherwise, I can see there being initiatives started-referendums, recall elections, etc.


I was just wondering-the article was asking the question and basically saying it didn't know. Outsiders looking in you see it's hard to judge the reality that's why I was curious. I'm not familiar enough with American newspapers etc to judge their veracity or otherwise.

It's spilled over to this side of the atlantic. Apparently some american commentator has said Stephen Hawking (who was receiving some award from your president) wouldn't have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless. seemingly unaware that he was British, has lived here all his life and is still alive because of the NHS-else they just lied but either way it's funny but also kind of sad that people can believe such nonsense. It doesn't seem like you are having a reasoned debate.

It doesn’t take Stephen Hawking to figure this one out | Jay Bookman

Also a british tory MEP has been on American TV slagging off the NHS and saying it should be dismantled as a consequence of which the tories are shitting themselves and appearing all over the place saying they support the NHS because if they are perceived as being likely to privatise it it could cost them the election. Politicians who oppose the NHS in principle are very much on the lunatic fringe of British politics-we might argue about how to fund it all but the basic principle of care free to all regardless of ability to pay is almost sacrosanct.

You should really stop bringing the NHS in to it.
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Post by Accountable »

We're not having a reasonable debate. We've got used car dealers on both sides slinging all kinds of crap to muddy the waters. It's distracting. I'm finding that it's even more frustrating when I see the same questions, the same accusations, and the same non-answers repeated in meeting after meeting, on talk shows and even on the news channels.



Smart people who have the time should unplug everything except their reading lamp and read the bill. They'll find it's like sorting sausage meat.



Nothing so "good" could possibly have to be so confusing.
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Post by cigar898 »

From some of the reports I have perused lately, seems a number of members of the Legislative Branch of the Government of the United States have been getting the sixes handed to them. This Sarge approves.

I have sent the following to my contingent in the Senate::mad:

Senator,

The first and only question you need to ask about the health care reform legislation is this: “Is the legislation consistent with the enumerated powers granted Congress in Article One, Section 8 of the Constitution of the United States?” If you support this legislation, you have violated your oath of office and the trust placed in you by the citizens of the State of South Dakota.

Sincerely

"Name"
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Post by Accountable »

I called my rep's office. The guy said he's out talking to constituents. I asked about his schedule because I'd like to attend. He told me to check the home page and sign up for the email newsletter. I did. The newsletter came ............. nothing about any meetings. But I did find a recording of a phone conference they called a townhall meeting.



Frickin' coward if you ask me.
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Post by cigar898 »

Big State....long wait......:wah:
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Post by cigar898 »

Check out Obama's quote in the third to last paragraph of this article. Apparently he thinks government run healthcare will be comparable in (lack of) quality to the Post Office. I think we should actually believe him on this one.

Crap! How does one post hyperlinks so they work?????

Yahoo News

To friendly crowd, Obama assails health care foes

By PHILIP ELLIOTT, Associated Press Writer Philip Elliott, Associated Press Writer – Tue Aug 11, 7:09 pm ET

PORTSMOUTH, N.H. – Braced for a fight he never got, President Barack Obama went on the offensive in support of his health care plan Tuesday, urging a town hall audience not to listen to those who seek to "scare and mislead the American people."

"For all the scare tactics out there, what is truly scary is if we do nothing," Obama told a friendly crowd of about 1,800 in a high school auditorium and a nationwide audience watching on cable television.

The White House had been ready for an unruly reception from opponents of overhauling health care. There was no sign of that, perhaps because of the makeup of the day's crowd or out of traditional deference for the president.

Obama's push came amid a string of disruptive health care town halls nationwide that have overshadowed his message and threatened to derail support in Congress. Indeed, Republican-turned-Democratic Sen. Arlen Specter faced hostile questions, taunts and jeers earlier Tuesday as he tried to explain his positions at a town hall in Lebanon, Pa. Voter fears of a government takeover of health care were on stark display.

Some lawmakers, holding forums during Congress' August recess, have gone so far as to replace public forums with teleconferences or step up security to keep protesters at bay.

But the Democratic president faced no outbursts.

The encounter was so friendly, in fact, that by the end Obama was even asking for skeptical questioners to come forward — to no avail.

He told his audience reassuringly, "For all the chatter and the yelling and the shouting and the noise, what you need to know is this ... if you do have health insurance, we will make sure that no insurance company or government bureaucrat gets between you and the care you need."

Retooling his message amid sliding support, he addressed some of his remarks to a vital and skeptical audience: the tens of millions of people who already have health insurance and are generally satisfied with the care they get.

He said the overhaul is essential to them, too, contending it is the way to keep control in their hands. Obama said while government bureaucrats should not meddle with people's care, bureaucrats at insurance companies should not, either.

The president accused critics of creating "boogeymen."

"Spread the facts. Let's get this done," Obama implored the crowd.

The tone was set as soon as Obama arrived. He came in to applause and told one person who shouted support, "I love you back."

One man identified himself as a Republican and said, "I don't know what I'm doing here." The Democratic president said he was happy to have him in attendance.

Toward the end of the session, Obama went so far as to ask people to give him skeptical questions. The best he got were queries about why he doesn't chastise Congress more and where the nation would find the additional doctors and nurses it needs.

Heading toward a pivotal fall debate before congressional action, Obama is scrambling to get lawmakers and the public behind what would be the most ambitious and costly changes to the health care system in decades.

He reiterated his determination that the plan be paid for without adding to the nation's soaring deficit.

He took on what he described as erroneous claims that have risen as the debate in Washington and the nation has developed.

He singled out the charge that the Democratic health care legislation would create "death panels" to deny care to frail seniors. Former Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin has said the Democrats' legislation includes "death panels" that could deny care.

Obama declared that a provision that he said had caused the uproar would only authorize Medicare to pay doctors for counseling patients about end-of-life care, living wills, hospice care and other issues, if the patients wanted it. It would not "basically pull the plug on grandma because we decided that it's too expensive to let her live anymore," as Obama put it.

The people Obama called on for questions asked him largely about their personal medical concerns and how any new law would affect them. "We're not talking about cutting Medicare benefits," he said, trying to reassure one questioner.

Obama sought to dispel talk that his ultimate goal is a single-payer federal health care system, like that in countries such as Canada.

He also disputed the notion that adding a government-run insurance plan into a menu of options from which people could pick would drive private insurers out of business, in effect making the system single-payer by default.

As long as they have a good product and the government plan has to sustain itself through premiums and other non-tax revenue, private insurers should be able to compete with the government plan, Obama said.

"They do it all the time," he said. "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. ... It's the Post Office that's always having problems."

In its first TV ads of this year's health care fight, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce will begin airing 30-second spots in about 20 states Wednesday criticizing the Democratic proposal to offer optional government health coverage, according to R. Bruce Josten, executive vice president of the nation's largest business group.

The multimillion-dollar buy would be one of the largest so far critical of Obama's effort, in a year in which opponents have been heavily outspent by supporters of the president's plan. The spots, showing a balloon being inflated until it bursts, says, "Big tax increases, huge deficits, expanded government control of health care. Call Congress."
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YouTube - post office
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Post by gmc »

Just keep the NHS out of it-come up with your own solutions- we gave you liberal democracy, TV, newspapers, telephone, computers, jet engines, electricity, ant-biotics, aesthetics etc etc just for once stop pinching our ideas and work out your own solutions to your problems.

It's a classic tactic-if you can't come up with a good counter argument then personalise the debate- replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim and distract attention from discussion of the real issues. creating hysteria is a good way to stop people having discussions. It's quite sad to see. There are issues with the NHS and we complain about delay or lack of service but we also take for granted everybody can receive medical care if they need it without worrying about how much it is going to cost

If these pundits criticising the NHS in the states came to britain and spoke to ordinary britons would get a hell of a shock at the hostility their attitudes receive in this country, never mind hostile crowds they would almost be lynch mobs. The tories are worried now-they were cruising to win the next election but it is an issue that could lose them the next election, even against a total plonker like gordon brown, if they are perceived as wanting to privatise the NHS.



'We were duped': Two British women tricked into become stars of campaign to sabotage Obama's healthcare reforms | Mail Online
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chonsigirl
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That is an interesting article, but I have never seen anyone mentioned on it in an advert. (but I'm sure it must be showing somewhere to make those claims) Haven't seen hardly any adverts except pro-health care and Obama. He seems a little worried about it now.....................:rolleyes:
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Post by K.Snyder »

Seems like it will pass.

What I want to know is if this health care plan serves to lower private insurance holders' rates enough to negate the taxes imposed wouldn't you feel such would be worth it considering you will pay what you're paying now anyway?

Surely you wouldn't suggest not giving health care to people that need it was ok, let alone morally corrupt, out of resentment and jealousy!
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Post by LarsMac »

I just spent the last while dredging through the health care reform bill, as it was presented to the Senate (I haven't even begun looking at the amendments presented, so far, in the Senate)

So I first thought a health care reform might be a good idea.

I mean, there are around 30 million people out there who have no insurance, and no coverage for medical care, short of medicaid, possibly.

My mother became ill last year, it proved fatal after 6 months of struggle. My dad had left here with a great medicare supplement, and getting basic care for her was no problem. we were in and out of the ER several times with her, and I saw way too many children brought into the ER with serious injuries, and way too many young working couples, and single parents having to face extraordinary medical bills.

I am all for a medical plan that helps these folks, and helps children get good, affordable preventive care. and that helps young families just starting out to get the health care insurance against overwhelming medical costs.

And I am for seeing that the elderly have affordable health care and drug coverage so they can enjoy a deserved retirement.

But, reading through this monstrosity, I don't see where it really solves that problem, and it promises to screw up health care for millions of us who now enjoy at least some basic reliable health coverage.
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Let's discuss Congress' Healthcare Plan

Post by Ahso! »

LarsMac;1274997 wrote: I just spent the last while dredging through the health care reform bill, as it was presented to the Senate (I haven't even begun looking at the amendments presented, so far, in the Senate)

So I first thought a health care reform might be a good idea.

I mean, there are around 30 million people out there who have no insurance, and no coverage for medical care, short of medicaid, possibly.

My mother became ill last year, it proved fatal after 6 months of struggle. My dad had left here with a great medicare supplement, and getting basic care for her was no problem. we were in and out of the ER several times with her, and I saw way too many children brought into the ER with serious injuries, and way too many young working couples, and single parents having to face extraordinary medical bills.

I am all for a medical plan that helps these folks, and helps children get good, affordable preventive care. and that helps young families just starting out to get the health care insurance against overwhelming medical costs.

And I am for seeing that the elderly have affordable health care and drug coverage so they can enjoy a deserved retirement.

But, reading through this monstrosity, I don't see where it really solves that problem, and it promises to screw up health care for millions of us who now enjoy at least some basic reliable health coverage.It really can't get any worse for those with no coverage, so maybe if more people become caught in the snag there will be more of an outcry in the future. I don't see how anyone really thought there was going to be anything substantial coming out of the senate especially when the aids to the senators are former insurance people.

Take what you can get and hope it gets better with time.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



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K.Snyder
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Let's discuss Congress' Healthcare Plan

Post by K.Snyder »

LarsMac;1274997 wrote: it promises to screw up health care for millions of us who now enjoy at least some basic reliable health coverage.


How exactly?
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LarsMac
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Let's discuss Congress' Healthcare Plan

Post by LarsMac »

My apologies for trying to start a new thread on this, and for what seems to be a false statement earlier.

The senate version specifically states:

SEC. 131. NO CHANGES TO EXISTING COVERAGE.

6 (a) OPTION TO RETAIN CURRENT INSURANCE COV7

ERAGE.—With respect to a group health plan or health

8 insurance coverage in which an individual was enrolled

9 prior to the effective date of this title, this subtitle (and

10 the amendments made by this subtitle) shall not apply to

11 such plan or coverage.

12 (b) ALLOWANCE FOR FAMILY MEMBERS TO JOIN

13 CURRENT COVERAGE.—With respect to a group health

14 plan or health insurance coverage in which an individual

15 was enrolled prior to the effective date of this title and

16 which is renewed after such date, family members of such

17 individual shall be permitted to enroll in such plan or coverage.
Control is an illusion. The Chaos is all part of the fun.
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rizythomas
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Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 11:37 pm

Let's discuss Congress' Healthcare Plan

Post by rizythomas »

Hi All, Thank you very much for all your assistance in this thread. We have share good experience and thoughts till now, hope the same will continue for long time...

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