Our Needs,Our Wants,Our Rights What are they?

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Lon
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Our Needs,Our Wants,Our Rights What are they?

Post by Lon »

I personally struggle with this question which I suspect places me in the minority. There are politicians telling us all the time the things to which we have a right and yet many of these things are not written into law or the Constitution. We certainly need food and housing without question, but are they a RIGHT? Is the fact that food & housing are readily available make it a right? We all need education to a point to survive in this world, but how much and what kind and is it a RIGHT? Being and staying healthy is certainly a need and is desireable, but when did it become a RIGHT? Is it a right simply because good medical care is available and any and all costs can be shared through a tax system?

Politicians publicly stating over and over what our rights are and then go on to say how they will support and enforce those rights seem to be pandering to the masses in a attempt to secure their personal power, further, much of the masses buys into this and makes me ask the question. Does this weaken or diminish the indiduals initiative and self reliance?
gmc
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Our Needs,Our Wants,Our Rights What are they?

Post by gmc »

Lon;1493523 wrote: I personally struggle with this question which I suspect places me in the minority. There are politicians telling us all the time the things to which we have a right and yet many of these things are not written into law or the Constitution. We certainly need food and housing without question, but are they a RIGHT? Is the fact that food & housing are readily available make it a right? We all need education to a point to survive in this world, but how much and what kind and is it a RIGHT? Being and staying healthy is certainly a need and is desireable, but when did it become a RIGHT? Is it a right simply because good medical care is available and any and all costs can be shared through a tax system?

Politicians publicly stating over and over what our rights are and then go on to say how they will support and enforce those rights seem to be pandering to the masses in a attempt to secure their personal power, further, much of the masses buys into this and makes me ask the question. Does this weaken or diminish the indiduals initiative and self reliance?


No. Surprised you need to ask. If you need to ask somebody what rights you can have yoiu miss the point IMO. You live in a society where you have a right, for want of a better word, to say how it's resources are spent and elect your own leaders. The rights are not something handed to you you've had to fight for them against those who would claim the right to rule and tell you how to lkead your lives and what to believe. You have to respect the rights for others so long as their exerting their perceived rights don't fringe on others. It's in the ineretsts of society to educate people as far as they are capable and provide health care for the greater good of society not just for the individual how on rearth does being well educated and healthy make you less self reliant? Indeed all thye evidence pinjts to being badly educated and in poor health makes yoy less capable of looking after yourself.
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tude dog
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Our Needs,Our Wants,Our Rights What are they?

Post by tude dog »

Lon;1493523 wrote: I personally struggle with this question which I suspect places me in the minority. There are politicians telling us all the time the things to which we have a right and yet many of these things are not written into law or the Constitution. We certainly need food and housing without question, but are they a RIGHT? Is the fact that food & housing are readily available make it a right? We all need education to a point to survive in this world, but how much and what kind and is it a RIGHT? Being and staying healthy is certainly a need and is desireable, but when did it become a RIGHT? Is it a right simply because good medical care is available and any and all costs can be shared through a tax system?

Politicians publicly stating over and over what our rights are and then go on to say how they will support and enforce those rights seem to be pandering to the masses in a attempt to secure their personal power, further, much of the masses buys into this and makes me ask the question. Does this weaken or diminish the indiduals initiative and self reliance?


Our Declaration of Independence says it best, among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness]no mention of rights.

Life and liberty are rights. Feel free to find happiness, whatever that is for ya.

I agree wIth Lon and tire of hearing people speak of rights hitherto unknown of.
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

“Never doubt the courage of the French. They were the ones who discovered that snails are edible.”
― Doug Larson
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Lon
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Our Needs,Our Wants,Our Rights What are they?

Post by Lon »

gmc;1493527 wrote:

No. Surprised you need to ask. If you need to ask somebody what rights you can have yoiu miss the point IMO. You live in a society where you have a right, for want of a better word, to say how it's resources are spent and elect your own leaders. The rights are not something handed to you you've had to fight for them against those who would claim the right to rule and tell you how to lkead your lives and what to believe. You have to respect the rights for others so long as their exerting their perceived rights don't fringe on others. It's in the ineretsts of society to educate people as far as they are capable and provide health care for the greater good of society not just for the individual how on rearth does being well educated and healthy make you less self reliant? Indeed all thye evidence pinjts to being badly educated and in poor health makes yoy less capable of looking after yourself.


We have politicians in the U.S. that are in favor of the government paying for the cost of a college education,implying that it is a right.
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Snowfire
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Our Needs,Our Wants,Our Rights What are they?

Post by Snowfire »

Lon;1493563 wrote: We have politicians in the U.S. that are in favor of the government paying for the cost of a college education,implying that it is a right.


Should your level of income determine the level of your children's education ?
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."

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AnneBoleyn
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Our Needs,Our Wants,Our Rights What are they?

Post by AnneBoleyn »

Lon;1493563 wrote: We have politicians in the U.S. that are in favor of the government paying for the cost of a college education,implying that it is a right.


You mean Bernie Sanders? He is only speaking of public colleges, not private ones. I went to the City University of New York system, and it was free; however, I graduated from New York University, a private institution, & it was not; thankfully I was on mostly scholarship. That was years ago, as you can see.

There are many who say the cost of college, including public, has risen due to increased loans which resulted in increased tuition. Then, however, the student is saddled with debt, sometimes for decades.
Bruv
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Our Needs,Our Wants,Our Rights What are they?

Post by Bruv »

Lon;1493563 wrote: We have politicians in the U.S. that are in favor of the government paying for the cost of a college education,implying that it is a right.


Or implying that it might be beneficial for the nation to have an educated population? Why is free Primary education accepted as good, but college education a product to sell ?
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gmc
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Our Needs,Our Wants,Our Rights What are they?

Post by gmc »

Lon;1493563 wrote: We have politicians in the U.S. that are in favor of the government paying for the cost of a college education,implying that it is a right.


Adam Smith - he who wrote the wealth of natuions and is c redited as being the father of capitalism benefdited from free compulsory education and had access to university education ny means of a scholarship. he argued that access to educartion and an educated workforce was essential for the good of society but also to vreate a pool of skilled workers with which to build a modern economy. He also advocated that a high wage economy so the workers had rthe free income to buy the goods being so generating more demand amd more wealth amd more jobs. While we're at it access to medical care was essential not only for the good of society but to ensure there was a healthy workforce available. Adam Smith also inspired what we would now recognise as socialism. Never mind the morality for a moment a heathy well, educated motivated workforce makes a lot of sense when measured against one forced to work for minimun wage with no prospects.

Over the last thirty years america has exported all the skilled manufacturing jobs overseas while forcing down wages in the mainland US and economists wonder why no one is buying all these cheap goods being imported. gave a wander round walmart and look at wghere the stuff is made.

Americans irt seems to me have been told for so long that those who accumulate wealth and control resources are somehow doung it for the greater good that they believe it and don't think they have a right tio challenge that world view. I grew up in the sixties went to university in the seventies and benefited from access to free university education ( it was means tested I grew up in what amerixcans call social housing or the projects) and have watched opublic school educatyed politicians undo and undrmine all the post war achienvements of socialism in the UK and not for our benefit I hate the tories and despise what was once a socialist labour party that has disappared up it's own backside.

Access to education is a right it's not somethimng that should be at the largesse of the wealthy. Trickle down economics is a joke to anyone with half a brain. Financial services are just that a service industry serving agriculture and industry it#s a parasitical organism that should never have ben allowed to take over the body. Bankers and accountants have caused immense damahe monetarism is an insane political theory that doesn't make sense without that basic industrial base. Like i said I'm puzzled why you need someone to tell you what your rights are and accept the authority of anyone to confine them to what they thibnk is best. The cynic in me would suggest that eleites of any kind do not want an educated populace because rthey can;t get away with so much.
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FourPart
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Our Needs,Our Wants,Our Rights What are they?

Post by FourPart »

Their can be no Rights written in Law, when those that mean to infringe those Rights are also the Lawmakers.

For example - the recent charade of the ESA Cuts. We have the Upper House for a reason. It is a safety buffer against Dictatorship. The rules being that they can turn a Bill down twice before having to let it through. Knowing this Cameron & his Cronies forced it through, had it refused, then, without making any changes to it, put it through again - and again, knowing that once it went through for the 3rd time they couldn't stop it. However, even the EU has denounced it as a Breach of Human Rights. Hopefully, however, although very unlikely, the Queen might exercise her right of veto & turn it down.
ZAP
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Our Needs,Our Wants,Our Rights What are they?

Post by ZAP »

I agree with Lon and tude dog. We have far too many 4th and 5th generation welfare recipients who have no intention of bettering themselves. Some know that the more babies they have the more money they get. Who pays for that? We have illegal non-citizens collecting Social Security, that I and other citizens have paid for and continue do so. As for the education issue, I can't see them being handed a free ride, when others have had to work and pay for it, myself included. I got my degree while working and raising 3 daughters. And I paid for it. My daughters got theirs by earning scholarships, working and paying for it.
Bruv
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Our Needs,Our Wants,Our Rights What are they?

Post by Bruv »

It is all about priorities,America is paranoiac HERE

Clicking through the links tells us that the finances come from tax payers pockets, strange priorities ?
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gmc
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Our Needs,Our Wants,Our Rights What are they?

Post by gmc »

ZAP;1493678 wrote: I agree with Lon and tude dog. We have far too many 4th and 5th generation welfare recipients who have no intention of bettering themselves. Some know that the more babies they have the more money they get. Who pays for that? We have illegal non-citizens collecting Social Security, that I and other citizens have paid for and continue do so. As for the education issue, I can't see them being handed a free ride, when others have had to work and pay for it, myself included. I got my degree while working and raising 3 daughters. And I paid for it. My daughters got theirs by earning scholarships, working and paying for it.


How would it be a free ride? It's not a case of turn up and get a degree they would still have to get the qualifications and pass the courses they would have to get off their backsides and do the work the problem is that the way things are there is no way it would be financially viable. We get the same arguments about welfare scroungers over here (except to the tories not being able to walk just means you are lazy not disabled ) it doesn't stack up to close examination. I do know soime lazy bastards that seem av=ble to play the system but I klnow even more stuck in a trap they can't get out of.

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