I have become the advocate or spokesperson for a friend who was recently commited to the psychiatric ward in a local hospital. She is 18 and was going through hard times. Comes from a very unstable, abusive home that she was forced to move back to after a failed relationship and they were giving her the boot from the house with extremely short notice. She had no job, nowhere to live and no money saved. She had a breakdown. Unfortunately she did not come to me, she ended up in an arguement with her mother who phoned the police and had her taken to the ward. She went willingly thinking that it might be a nice vacation. She thought she had nowhere else to go. Now we can't get her out.
We can't get her out!!!!!!!
They have overdosed her twice, keep her so drugged up I can hardly recognize her. She is unable to concentrate long enough to read her mental health rights which, I think, is part of the "plan" because they refuse to grant her the rights we have requested since I found out where she was. They will not call me at her request. They took ten days to provide her certification papers which we requested daily. They will not let her switch doctors. They told her they were releasing her so she would sign a form to cancel her review. After she signed it (I wasn't there at the time) they told her they were keeping her indefinately. I finally wrote a letter telling them I would retain a lawyer on her behalf if they did not release her by the end of the week.
This is common fear. How do you prove you are sane when they keep pumping you full of drugs and intentionally provoking aggression?
Another one flies over the cuckoos nest
Another one flies over the cuckoos nest
THat is much too much work for any human this time of year?
Everyone has these on their face? TULIPS.
Another one flies over the cuckoos nest
That's horrible that something like that can and does go on. Please for her sake, keep trying. Don't give up. Call government officials, news people, and anyone and everyone.
Another one flies over the cuckoos nest
Horrible! What state and is the facility state or county run?
Check out this page too: http://www.ashbusstop.org/pi_getout.html
Check out this page too: http://www.ashbusstop.org/pi_getout.html
Please use the "contact us" button if you need to contact a ForumGarden admin.
Another one flies over the cuckoos nest
This is happening in New Westminster (Greater Vancouver) BC. I am thinking about contacting the media when I return if they don't respond to my letter. I think getting a lawyer's advice first might be beneficial and a letter from a lawyer is only $100. Sometimes all it takes is legal letterhead. I think because I look so young and dress kind of funky they didn't take me seriously when I tried to speak with them before. On the other hand, now that I know this is happening, is it good enough just to get my friend out? How many other people are in the same situation? I might consider the media anyway, even if they release her immediately, just to draw attention to the matter and make sure that they do not get away with this in other situations. A patient that has no immediate family or friends in the area could be stuck there for life. I think I am opening a proverbial can of worms. This is not the kind of thing I can just walk away from. Thanks for the link, Tombstone. I will check it out.
-
Bill Sikes
- Posts: 5515
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am
Another one flies over the cuckoos nest
koan wrote: (friend stuck in hospital) They have overdosed her twice, keep her so drugged up I can hardly recognize her. She is unable to concentrate long enough to read her mental health rights which, I think, is part of the "plan" because they refuse to grant her the rights we have requested since I found out where she was. They will not call me at her request. They took ten days to provide her certification papers which we requested daily. They will not let her switch doctors. They told her they were releasing her so she would sign a form to cancel her review. After she signed it (I wasn't there at the time) they told her they were keeping her indefinately. I finally wrote a letter telling them I would retain a lawyer on her behalf if they did not release her by the end of the week.
I wonder why she is there? Have you, where you are, any law that says she may be detained for whatever it is she's confined for?
koan wrote: This is common fear. How do you prove you are sane when they keep pumping you full of drugs and intentionally provoking aggression?
And why they should be doing this? It does not strike me as normal practice.
Is there any possibility, I wonder, that whatever treatment she's getting might help?
I wonder why she is there? Have you, where you are, any law that says she may be detained for whatever it is she's confined for?
koan wrote: This is common fear. How do you prove you are sane when they keep pumping you full of drugs and intentionally provoking aggression?
And why they should be doing this? It does not strike me as normal practice.
Is there any possibility, I wonder, that whatever treatment she's getting might help?
Another one flies over the cuckoos nest
koan wrote: This is happening in New Westminster (Greater Vancouver) BC. I am thinking about contacting the media when I return if they don't respond to my letter. I think getting a lawyer's advice first might be beneficial and a letter from a lawyer is only $100. Sometimes all it takes is legal letterhead. I think because I look so young and dress kind of funky they didn't take me seriously when I tried to speak with them before. On the other hand, now that I know this is happening, is it good enough just to get my friend out? How many other people are in the same situation? I might consider the media anyway, even if they release her immediately, just to draw attention to the matter and make sure that they do not get away with this in other situations. A patient that has no immediate family or friends in the area could be stuck there for life. I think I am opening a proverbial can of worms. This is not the kind of thing I can just walk away from. Thanks for the link, Tombstone. I will check it out.
Okay, I was wondering if it was under Canadian authority. Boy, I just don't know the laws for Canada.
I agree with a couple of the other posts though - what is really going on? Do they think she is a threat to herself? Others? It's a curiously strong response from the authorities.
Okay, I was wondering if it was under Canadian authority. Boy, I just don't know the laws for Canada.
I agree with a couple of the other posts though - what is really going on? Do they think she is a threat to herself? Others? It's a curiously strong response from the authorities.
Please use the "contact us" button if you need to contact a ForumGarden admin.
-
persephone
- Posts: 664
- Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:14 pm
Another one flies over the cuckoos nest
Wow, things are really different here, we don't drug patients up although it may seem that way at first, this is because when they first come in they are in a totally different world from reality, and the drugs they are given are to create a "normal" chemical balance that allows them to function in the real world and think for themselves once again without the voices or whatever. You have to be there and see the change to understand.
The only time a patient is ever seriously drugged is if they become a danger to themselves or others and talking just doesn't calm them down. This normally happens if control and restraint has been used and they are still kicking off.
We have to be VERY careful with all of the above.
Here all patients have access to a lawyer when they are sectioned, the lawyer will give advice and work on getting the section revoked, esspecially when it is a long section, we have many from 24 hours to 1 year or longer if it is a criminal section.
I would say the lawyer is the way to go, and also check out the sectioning acts that are relevant to your area... Over drugging I'm sure must be wrong somewhere by law.
The only time a patient is ever seriously drugged is if they become a danger to themselves or others and talking just doesn't calm them down. This normally happens if control and restraint has been used and they are still kicking off.
We have to be VERY careful with all of the above.
Here all patients have access to a lawyer when they are sectioned, the lawyer will give advice and work on getting the section revoked, esspecially when it is a long section, we have many from 24 hours to 1 year or longer if it is a criminal section.
I would say the lawyer is the way to go, and also check out the sectioning acts that are relevant to your area... Over drugging I'm sure must be wrong somewhere by law.
Bad Girls have very high standards, but they love you even if you sometimes fall short.
Another one flies over the cuckoos nest
Her mother told police that she threatened her with a knife. Although she held a knife in her hand as she was cooking at the time of the arguement, the knife was not used in a threatening manner. She was commited as a threat to others even though they were told that the knife was not used as a weapon and that the mother had lied. I was open to there being possible benefits to her stay in the hospital for the first two weeks until I saw the overdoses and have watched her slowly deteriorate. She is now unsure as to what is expected of her and just like childhood is the complete victim of the whims of people in authority so she is reverting to a more childish self.
There are laws. The hospital is not following them. They gave her a paper with her rights written on it, told her to sign that she had received her rights, nobody went over them with her, nobody informed her that she has the right to a lawyer nobody tells her anything about her treatment or will phone me to discuss it and nobody has complied with any of her rights as we have requested them until harassed about the legality of their compliance.
The weirdest part is that in Surrey, just over the bridge from New West, a different friend's schizophrenic brother dumped gasoline all over himself and threatened innocent bystanders, was released from the psychiatric ward within 24 hours despite the family's request that they keep him there. But then if you know Surrey at all I guess it is not that weird.
There are laws. The hospital is not following them. They gave her a paper with her rights written on it, told her to sign that she had received her rights, nobody went over them with her, nobody informed her that she has the right to a lawyer nobody tells her anything about her treatment or will phone me to discuss it and nobody has complied with any of her rights as we have requested them until harassed about the legality of their compliance.
The weirdest part is that in Surrey, just over the bridge from New West, a different friend's schizophrenic brother dumped gasoline all over himself and threatened innocent bystanders, was released from the psychiatric ward within 24 hours despite the family's request that they keep him there. But then if you know Surrey at all I guess it is not that weird.
-
persephone
- Posts: 664
- Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:14 pm
Another one flies over the cuckoos nest
You could make an official complaint to the health authority as well, that would be slow but it helps the others who are suffering the same sort things.
Get copies of her records as evidence. Really if she went in of her own free will she shouldn't have been sectioned/commited and therefore as long as she had shown no risk of harm to herself or others should've been able to walk out as easily as she walked in.
No one here can be sectioned without an assessment from a doctor and a social worker.
Get copies of her records as evidence. Really if she went in of her own free will she shouldn't have been sectioned/commited and therefore as long as she had shown no risk of harm to herself or others should've been able to walk out as easily as she walked in.
No one here can be sectioned without an assessment from a doctor and a social worker.
Bad Girls have very high standards, but they love you even if you sometimes fall short.
Another one flies over the cuckoos nest
At 18, is she considered an adult, or is mamma pulling the strings? Is she being visited by her personal doctor ? Is there a patient omsbudman at either the facility, or on a govt. level. I don't know Canadian law, but I suspect you have absolutely no authority, you really do need the lawyer, but you need to research as much on line as possible. You may be able to find a support group to help, the lawyer's gonna get expensive fast, and hospitol bureaucracies extremely tough. Another avenue of attack, find out who is paying the bills, you might find a stingy ally. Good Luck. 
Old age and treachery, is an acceptable response to overwelming youth and skill 
Another one flies over the cuckoos nest
We believed that she went in to the hospital voluntarily and should be able to walk out but they certified her and can now hold her on a monthly basis pending recertification at the end of each month indefinately. The bills are being paid by our wonderful health care system. I noticed that there was a legal aide bulletin stating her right to legal counsel and will read it more closely when I return. Might be able to help her get free counsel. I asked her who her normal doctor was and she was going to try and reach them during the week and request them to visit her in the hospital. Her previous request to change doctors was denied (not sure how they get away with that either). If I could be there during the day it would be a lot easier to help her but I can't compromise my work right now as the pressure to complete the project is immense. I won't really be able to time off work when I return for about another two weeks.
-
persephone
- Posts: 664
- Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:14 pm
Another one flies over the cuckoos nest
I suspect you have absolutely no authorityThis should be a pretty unerversal thing, if the patient formally gives her consent for Koan to be involved in her care then they have to respect that. There is no way that they can deny access of information etc. It's "Patient Centred Care".
Consent can be given verbally, in writing or by action. Example of the last one... Nurse comes up to you to take BP and without saying anything you just offer her your arm.
Although the main problem with this is as she has been certified they may say she is not in her right mind to consent to anything. Of course certified persons still have rights in the matter of consent and requests being followed.
Consent can be given verbally, in writing or by action. Example of the last one... Nurse comes up to you to take BP and without saying anything you just offer her your arm.
Although the main problem with this is as she has been certified they may say she is not in her right mind to consent to anything. Of course certified persons still have rights in the matter of consent and requests being followed.
Bad Girls have very high standards, but they love you even if you sometimes fall short.
-
Wednesday's Child
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:00 pm
Another one flies over the cuckoos nest
Koan
It sounds as if the hospital has more serious charges from the family of which you are not being made aware.
If you wish to spend some money on this, you should contact a medical malpractice attorney (lawyer/solicitor) if B.C. has such an animal...surely there
ARE some cases even though the government pays for everything....
You can apply to be her advocate, and if not, get someone from social services to look into the matter.
Once adjudged mentally ill (this would take weeks of interviews, testing, observation and family interviews and may not be a complete intake as yet)....
but the hospital would have the final say.
I still would spend the time and money to have an accurate path to follow advised by an attorney....
Generally for a person to be held over 72 hours in the U.S., there has to be a team consensus that the inpatient is a danger to herself and/or to others.... and if not, allowed to leave the hospital with a recommended psychiatric evaluation and consultation with medication as follow up.
Somehow the evaluator(s) at New Westminster (Royal Columbian?).... have determined your friend is either suicidal or may harm someone in her family... but someone should at least explain the evaluation to you.... or can you trust the family to do so? She may not have an assigned psychiatrist as yet, but once ambulatory again after calming down, she will be allowed into "group" and perhaps individual intakes by others.
I am so sorry .... these cases do slip through ... and she may not even be on the proper medication yet, only being given ones to calm her down to be more acquiescent to treatment.... (i.e.: dumbed down and out).
I have no idea why people don't get their heads checked as often as they take care of their teeth..... leaving it up to a full blown crisis when they are committed and terrified out of what is left of their rational minds.
The laws are probably different in Canada, but I cannot see a patient being kept against her will unless they have determined she is not capable of being allowed
free will at the present time - to do otherwise they would be liable.
What a wonderful friend you are! Rare as can be - especially when someone is mentally ill. :-6
It sounds as if the hospital has more serious charges from the family of which you are not being made aware.
If you wish to spend some money on this, you should contact a medical malpractice attorney (lawyer/solicitor) if B.C. has such an animal...surely there
ARE some cases even though the government pays for everything....
You can apply to be her advocate, and if not, get someone from social services to look into the matter.
Once adjudged mentally ill (this would take weeks of interviews, testing, observation and family interviews and may not be a complete intake as yet)....
but the hospital would have the final say.
I still would spend the time and money to have an accurate path to follow advised by an attorney....
Generally for a person to be held over 72 hours in the U.S., there has to be a team consensus that the inpatient is a danger to herself and/or to others.... and if not, allowed to leave the hospital with a recommended psychiatric evaluation and consultation with medication as follow up.
Somehow the evaluator(s) at New Westminster (Royal Columbian?).... have determined your friend is either suicidal or may harm someone in her family... but someone should at least explain the evaluation to you.... or can you trust the family to do so? She may not have an assigned psychiatrist as yet, but once ambulatory again after calming down, she will be allowed into "group" and perhaps individual intakes by others.
I am so sorry .... these cases do slip through ... and she may not even be on the proper medication yet, only being given ones to calm her down to be more acquiescent to treatment.... (i.e.: dumbed down and out).
I have no idea why people don't get their heads checked as often as they take care of their teeth..... leaving it up to a full blown crisis when they are committed and terrified out of what is left of their rational minds.
The laws are probably different in Canada, but I cannot see a patient being kept against her will unless they have determined she is not capable of being allowed
free will at the present time - to do otherwise they would be liable.
What a wonderful friend you are! Rare as can be - especially when someone is mentally ill. :-6
Another one flies over the cuckoos nest
I finally was contacted by a doctor at the hospital!
The regular doctor went on holiday and the new guy said he shared some concern that our requests were being ignored. He is contacting a social worker and will pursue having her case reviewed. The social worker should be contacting me tomorrow! Apparently we will likely have to wait for a discharge until the other doctor returns but things have been put into motion. :-6
The regular doctor went on holiday and the new guy said he shared some concern that our requests were being ignored. He is contacting a social worker and will pursue having her case reviewed. The social worker should be contacting me tomorrow! Apparently we will likely have to wait for a discharge until the other doctor returns but things have been put into motion. :-6
-
Wednesday's Child
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:00 pm
Another one flies over the cuckoos nest
Koan
What wonderful news....if you hadn't rattled the cages....I don't want to think about it.
What a great friend you are!
I hope your friend will also get some help when she is discharged. Perhaps this new
doctor will give her some excellent advice about her goals when she leaves.
Congratulations!
What wonderful news....if you hadn't rattled the cages....I don't want to think about it.
What a great friend you are!
I hope your friend will also get some help when she is discharged. Perhaps this new
doctor will give her some excellent advice about her goals when she leaves.
Congratulations!
Another one flies over the cuckoos nest
Update. She's out for the night and we're supposed to get a weekend pass. The doctor finally agreed to meet with me and it appears that he is willing to release her now that he knows she is going to a home with a responsible adult. (Little does he know....WE'VE FOOLED THEM ALL!!!!!) Just kidding.
It does take a sense of humour to survive in this world though.
It does take a sense of humour to survive in this world though.
-
Wednesday's Child
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:00 pm
Another one flies over the cuckoos nest
Koan
Best wishes to you and your friend. I hope everything turns out well. She is lucky to have you.
Best wishes to you and your friend. I hope everything turns out well. She is lucky to have you.