A deadly Poll

User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

A deadly Poll

Post by Accountable »

My original questions were too long:

I believe a fetus should be aborted if it will be born with severe handicaps and may not survive or have a low-quality life; I also believe in mercy killing and assisted suicide.

I believe a fetus should be aborted if it will be born with severe handicaps and may not survive or have a low-quality life; I do not believe in mercy killing or assisted suicide.

I do not believe a fetus should be aborted simply because it might be born with severe handicaps and may not survive or have a low-quality life; I believe in mercy killing and assisted suicide.

I do not believe a fetus should be aborted simply because it might be born with severe handicaps and may not survive or have a low-quality life; I do not believe in mercy killing or assisted suicide.
hoppy
Posts: 4561
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:58 am

A deadly Poll

Post by hoppy »

Too many people are too willing to take over God's job. And they want to go at it bass akwards. Let's kill unwanted babies so they don't grow up to be criminals. Let's kill deformed babies so they will not be a burden on society. Let's kill the ill to end their suffering. Hey, ain't this fun, being God-like? What? kill those dirtbag serial killers on death row? How DARE you suggest that.:mad:
User avatar
buttercup
Posts: 6178
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:12 am

A deadly Poll

Post by buttercup »

I dont mind saying i chose the first one.
mikeinie
Posts: 3130
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:43 am

A deadly Poll

Post by mikeinie »

Don’t know. Very complex proposals, all of them.

Do I support euthanasia? No, it would worry me where else it would lead to, but… do I support someone being able to die with dignity and decide when they have endured enough suffering? Yes, who am I to let my beliefs keep someone else alive when they are truly suffering.

Do I believe that a child should be aborted just because of imperfections? No.

But am I to inflict on someone a life of suffering and constant medical care and the pain and suffering that comes with the heart ace of the parents that need to dedicate their lives and finances to caring? Or am I to condemn a child to a lifetime of living with pain inside a medical institution for the simple sake of keeping him/her alive?

Who am I to judge that?

these issues are sometimes to easly summed up into nice neat little pro and anti arguements, but each case is an individual life, with individual circumsatances.

I will never really know until it is my turn.
User avatar
flopstock
Posts: 7406
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:52 am

A deadly Poll

Post by flopstock »

While I support abortion if it will be born with severe handicaps and may not survive or would have a low-quality life, I don't think it automatically should be aborted. That's a tough and private call for anyone to make and not my place to impose on them.



I fully support mercy killing and assisted suicide.



I fully support killing serial killers, pedofiles, rapist, drunk drivers and a whole host of folks that don't mind harming others repeatedly.



I don't support spraying my garden vegtables or letting my dog get after the rabbits that keep eating my beans and lettuce.. that just seems wrong somehow...:thinking:
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.

Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6

User avatar
minks
Posts: 26281
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:58 pm

A deadly Poll

Post by minks »

I believe in personal choice and until I am faced with such a decision I can't say what I would choose today.
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�

― Mae West
gmc
Posts: 13566
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:44 am

A deadly Poll

Post by gmc »

Shouldn't you also have a question as to whose decision it should be?
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Posts: 15754
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

A deadly Poll

Post by Bryn Mawr »

As you might imagine I chose the first option but with reservations.

The way it is phrased it is automatic - no degree of choice by the people involved. This I disagree with as an abortion should never be performed against the wishes of the mother.

You treat mercy killing and assisted suicide as equivalent when they are chalk and cheese (assuming we are using the same definition - assisted suicide is euthanasia at the request of the patient whilst mercy killing is euthanasia regardless of the wishes of the patient). Again, euthanasia should never be carried out against the wishes of the patient.
User avatar
flopstock
Posts: 7406
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:52 am

A deadly Poll

Post by flopstock »

Bryn Mawr;1201273 wrote: As you might imagine I chose the first option but with reservations.



The way it is phrased it is automatic - no degree of choice by the people involved. This I disagree with as an abortion should never be performed against the wishes of the mother.



You treat mercy killing and assisted suicide as equivalent when they are chalk and cheese (assuming we are using the same definition - assisted suicide is euthanasia at the request of the patient whilst mercy killing is euthanasia regardless of the wishes of the patient). Again, euthanasia should never be carried out against the wishes of the patient.





What if the wishes of the patient are unknown? Would you leave it to family?:thinking:
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.

Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6

gmc
Posts: 13566
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:44 am

A deadly Poll

Post by gmc »

Bryn Mawr;1201273 wrote: As you might imagine I chose the first option but with reservations.

The way it is phrased it is automatic - no degree of choice by the people involved. This I disagree with as an abortion should never be performed against the wishes of the mother.

You treat mercy killing and assisted suicide as equivalent when they are chalk and cheese (assuming we are using the same definition - assisted suicide is euthanasia at the request of the patient whilst mercy killing is euthanasia regardless of the wishes of the patient). Again, euthanasia should never be carried out against the wishes of the patient.



Good point actually. I think if someone wants to have an assisted suicide and they make that choice when fully aware of what they are doing it should be up to them to decide.

posted by flopstock

What if the wishes of the patient are unknown? Would you leave it to family?




It is left to them as next of kin anyway and they can override someone's wishes. If your wife or child was in a coma, brain dead and on life support you would be the one making the decision whether you wanted to or not.
User avatar
flopstock
Posts: 7406
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:52 am

A deadly Poll

Post by flopstock »

gmc;1201314 wrote: Good point actually. I think if someone wants to have an assisted suicide and they make that choice when fully aware of what they are doing it should be up to them to decide.



posted by flopstock





It is left to them as next of kin anyway and they can override someone's wishes. If your wife or child was in a coma, brain dead and on life support you would be the one making the decision whether you wanted to or not.



Sounds logical to me. I would think it would be a hard choice to make. I really want to go first in my immediate family..
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.

Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6

User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Posts: 15754
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

A deadly Poll

Post by Bryn Mawr »

flopstock;1201277 wrote: What if the wishes of the patient are unknown? Would you leave it to family?:thinking:



I'm fully in favour of living wills - pre-declaring under which conditions you would wish euthanasia to take place if you are unable to express a meaningful opinion at the time.

I am not in favour of the family being given the right to decide beyond the existing - so no for active euthanasia but yes for turning off the life support / DNR / etc.
gmc
Posts: 13566
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:44 am

A deadly Poll

Post by gmc »

Bryn Mawr;1201320 wrote: I'm fully in favour of living wills - pre-declaring under which conditions you would wish euthanasia to take place if you are unable to express a meaningful opinion at the time.

I am not in favour of the family being given the right to decide beyond the existing - so no for active euthanasia but yes for turning off the life support / DNR / etc.



If you have any elderly relatives in care you will find one of the forms they have to sign is a no resuscitation form-i.e. in the event of a collapse would they want to be revived. All very well if they are compos mentis enough to sign the thing.
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Posts: 15754
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

A deadly Poll

Post by Bryn Mawr »

gmc;1201342 wrote: If you have any elderly relatives in care you will find one of the forms they have to sign is a no resuscitation form-i.e. in the event of a collapse would they want to be revived. All very well if they are compos mentis enough to sign the thing.



That's what I meant by DNR - Do Not Resuscitate. It is one of the choices the family have to take if the patient is not in a state to be capable of doing so and is not a choice I would wish on anyone.
User avatar
chonsigirl
Posts: 33631
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am

A deadly Poll

Post by chonsigirl »

It helps when they make out a living will before an illness. Otherwise, the loved ones must make the hard decisions in cases like this. I found it very difficult to know what to do when my husband was first ill, he never told me what he wanted. I had to make my best call, which turned out all right. But if it happens again, I would have to make the next decision. Very hard thing to do. It was very frightening at the time, doctors were divided over what should be done. The ones who were negative laid a very heavy guilt trip on me, and tried to scare me about certain procedures.
User avatar
Bryn Mawr
Posts: 15754
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 pm

A deadly Poll

Post by Bryn Mawr »

chonsigirl;1201352 wrote: It helps when they make out a living will before an illness. Otherwise, the loved ones must make the hard decisions in cases like this. I found it very difficult to know what to do when my husband was first ill, he never told me what he wanted. I had to make my best call, which turned out all right. But if it happens again, I would have to make the next decision. Very hard thing to do. It was very frightening at the time, doctors were divided over what should be done. The ones who were negative laid a very heavy guilt trip on me, and tried to scare me about certain procedures.



I have always made my preferences very clear - I would not wish my body to continue if my mind no longer inhabited it. I would not wish to continue to live even if my mind still lived but I had no control over my body.

I say this because I would not have my loved one have to make the decisions that were forced on you - your strength is an inspiration but I would not ask it of anyone.
User avatar
along-for-the-ride
Posts: 11732
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:28 pm

A deadly Poll

Post by along-for-the-ride »

hoppy;1201199 wrote: Too many people are too willing to take over God's job. And they want to go at it bass akwards. Let's kill unwanted babies so they don't grow up to be criminals. Let's kill deformed babies so they will not be a burden on society. Let's kill the ill to end their suffering. Hey, ain't this fun, being God-like? What? kill those dirtbag serial killers on death row? How DARE you suggest that.:mad:



Your post, hoppy, does have the ring of truth in it in today's world.
Life is a Highway. Let's share the Commute.
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

A deadly Poll

Post by Accountable »

mikeinie;1201218 wrote: Don’t know. Very complex proposals, all of them.



Do I support euthanasia? No, it would worry me where else it would lead to, but… do I support someone being able to die with dignity and decide when they have endured enough suffering? Yes, who am I to let my beliefs keep someone else alive when they are truly suffering.



Do I believe that a child should be aborted just because of imperfections? No.



But am I to inflict on someone a life of suffering and constant medical care and the pain and suffering that comes with the heart ace of the parents that need to dedicate their lives and finances to caring? Or am I to condemn a child to a lifetime of living with pain inside a medical institution for the simple sake of keeping him/her alive?



Who am I to judge that?



these issues are sometimes to easly summed up into nice neat little pro and anti arguements, but each case is an individual life, with individual circumsatances.



I will never really know until it is my turn.

:yh_clap :yh_clap :yh_clap :yh_clap :yh_clap :yh_clap
User avatar
Accountable
Posts: 24818
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am

A deadly Poll

Post by Accountable »

gmc;1201263 wrote: Shouldn't you also have a question as to whose decision it should be?

I was hoping that would come out in the conversation. What's your view?
User avatar
kazalala
Posts: 13036
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:00 am

A deadly Poll

Post by kazalala »

minks;1201240 wrote: I believe in personal choice and until I am faced with such a decision I can't say what I would choose today.



exactly.. it is a personal choice i think ,, and depends on a lot of different factors,, one of them being your own emotions and how you could or could not cope.

I was given an amniocentesis with my third pregnancy due to genetic defects that led to my second child dying 4 hours after birth, He had Edwards Syndrome and its very very rare for children born with this to live ,, a few months is usually the most you can hope for. After having the test with my 3rd pregnancy, i lost some of my waters and had to stay in bed for a week, i was distraught thinking i had put my baby at risk to find out if it had the same defects as the son i had lost,, or other defects as they can detect others with that test. I had went along with the test automatically,, but when i was forced to actually think about it, i couldnt stand the thought of aborting,, even after speaking to my husband,, he didnt think he would cope well with a physically/mentally/or both handicapped child, i knew even if it meant us splitting up i wasnt going to get rid of my baby just because it had Downs or some other handicap. I dont know what i would have done if i was told the baby would definately die, be in pain, suffer a lot,, but i think if i had terminated because of some other defect like downs syndrome or something else like that, then i would never ever feel i could try again for another baby. We were lucky and did not have to make the decision in the end, I went to have have an Angel of a daughter:)healthy and the sunshine of my life:)

That was my experience and my feelings,,, i could never condemn anyone else for having a different viewpoint and making a diffrent decision.




FOC THREAD PART1

In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.

Martin Luther King Jr.
gmc
Posts: 13566
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 9:44 am

A deadly Poll

Post by gmc »

Accountable;1201451 wrote: I was hoping that would come out in the conversation. What's your view?



For abortion I would say it is the woman's choice and the right to choose shouldn't be taken away from her. It's not a black and white issue though is it. In the UK the debate tends to be a bit more clinical without the religious frenzy you get in the states.

Mercy killing-depends what you mean. Doctors in the past used to take the decision to turn off life support machines when they judged there was no brain activity and the decision was theirs, is that mercy killing? Now it's a big issue-was there not a big stooshie about such a case in the states? If a baby is so badly

Is mercy killing simply not providing medical assistance and keeping the body alive in such a case or a non-resuscitation decision when the person is elderly? It's a grey area I think. If for instance you have a relative who is completely senile are they actually still alive? Is signing an instruction not to resuscitate agreeing to a mercy killing. We can keep people alive beyond the point they would have died of what were natural causes not so long ago. I don't think you can make a sweeping generalisation or law about such things that covers all the angles.

Assisted suicide? personally I think I would make such a decision while I was still capable of doing it myself rather than put members of my family through such a thing. If you want to commit suicide just do it and if you know you are going to then why wait it just prolongs the inevitable. I don't see suicide as a sin though-to me it's a personal decision. If someone wants to end their life before it becomes unbearable-for them that is-then they should be able to. It's a bit harder in the UK than the US cos we can't just buy a gun and blow our brains out like they do in the states and you know jumping of a building is going to hurt and you will have time to change your mind on the way down.

Return to “Health Care”