~alcoholism~

lady cop
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Post by lady cop »

today it was reported that Joan Kennedy, former wife of senator ted ("a blonde in every pond") kennedy, was found laying unconcious in a Boston street, with a concussion and broken collarbone. she is hospitalized, and one of her sons has assumed her guardianship. this lady is ony 58 years old, and has a history of alcoholism. i felt sad for this lovely woman, and thought a discussion of the ravages of alcoholism might be in order, since it seems to affect so many lives. do you know an alcoholic? do you believe in 12-step programs? (AA) does it affect your life in some way? is it really a disease, or an excuse? it seems to be an affliction that touches the lives of many . what criteria defines "alcoholic" to you?
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Clint
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Post by Clint »

I have the twelve steps written in the back of my favorite Bible, along with their correlating Bible verses. The AA program is very spiritual. It used to be even more spiritual than it is now. In its beginning, unlike now, it resembled a home Bible study.

A very well researched book called, “The Good Book and the Big Book” (can’t remember the authors name) points out that in its early days AA had a 75% success rate. That has dropped drastically over the years as the program drifted from its original roots. The “higher power” thing has lead people down paths that are hopeless. I once saw a young man point to a box of tissues in the middle of the floor and declare that he had been taught and believed, that the box of tissues could be his higher power. I asked him what he was going to do when the box was empty and he didn’t have a reply.

The twelve steps are steps to peaceful, purposeful and content living. They are for anyone who has let something take over their life. Drugs and alcohol are the most common but they work for many things.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
lady cop
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Post by lady cop »

hi Clint...i think the author of the original "big book" was simply called "bill"....my thought on the criteria for alcoholism is whether drinking has impacted a persons life, through family disruption, job problems, arrests, abuse of any kind, DUIs, "accidents", kids neglected; and if so, there is a problem having nothing to do with the number of drinks consumed, but rather their effect. ~~~~Clint, note, clear your PM box. :)
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Clint
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Post by Clint »

lady cop wrote: hi Clint...i think the author of the original "big book" was simply called "bill"....my thought on the criteria for alcoholism is whether drinking has impacted a persons life, through family disruption, job problems, arrests, abuse of any kind, DUIs, "accidents", kids neglected; and if so, there is a problem having nothing to do with the number of drinks consumed, but rather their effect. ~~~~Clint, note, clear your PM box. :)

You are correct. The author of the original Big Book was Bill. I was refering to the author of a book called "The Good Book and the Big Book".

The definition I have always thought fit well is, if drinking causes you serious life problems and you continue, you are an alcoholic. It doesn't matter if it's one beer or a gallon of whisky.

I rode with the PD of a city, who's name I won't mention, for two weeks in the early 70s. By midnight they were pulling people over and calling a cab for them becasue they didn't have the time or staff to book them. Is it any better now? That and an incident with a drunk and a gun, changed my mind about a career in law enforcement.

Thank you for the reminer on the PM box. :o
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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Clint
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Post by Clint »

Clint wrote: You are correct. The author of the original Big Book was Bill. I was refering to the author of a book called "The Good Book and the Big Book".

The definition I have always thought fit well is, if drinking causes you serious life problems and you continue, you are an alcoholic. It doesn't matter if it's one beer or a gallon of whisky.

I rode with the PD of a city, who's name I won't mention, for two weeks in the early 70s. By midnight they were pulling people over and calling a cab for them becasue they didn't have the time or staff to book them. Is it any better now? That and an incident with a drunk and a gun, changed my mind about a career in law enforcement.

Thank you for the reminer on the PM box. :o



"reminer" :confused: Thank you for the reminder. It was a long day and I was tired but I couldn't sleep. I guess I could have downed a few, taken a few shots at the moon with my 4-10 and yelled at the neighbors, then I could have fallen asleep on the front yard. The only problem with that is that I'm between jobs, so I couldn't have gone to work and bragged to my buddies about how I told off the cop who trespassed to see if I was asleep or dead.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Jives
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Post by Jives »

skittles2004 wrote: He can get violent but fortunitly he staggers and I get the upperhand.



Yikes! Be safe, Skittles! :-2

Alcohol is a serious problem where I live. In the 70's an entire generation around here became alcoholics. Drunk driving wasn't a crime (well, not one you could get arrested for unless you killed someone) and the drive-up windows would sell to anyone who could drive a car. Add to that keg parties every weekend in the arroyos and washes and then flash forward 20 years and you have a very big problem.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
lady cop
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Post by lady cop »

Jives, that is something that really appalls and angers me, drive-through liquor stores!! we have them where i live too, and i just want to park a cruiser right there 24/7. :mad: ........Skittles, are you saying you are being abused?? you can PM me if you want to talk about it.
kensloft
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Post by kensloft »

Behaviour therapy. It is when you begin to modify your drinking habits.

Most alcoholics won't admit they are problem drinkers, so, they spend their days and evenings commiserating with other alcoholics about how no one understands them but their drinking buddies.

Spent many years drinking heavily with bikers, punks, ordinary and not so ordinary folk.

Ordinary folk drink spaced out (paced) drinking.

Not so ordinary are people that have social status but can't allow people to know that they have problems.

Bikers drank heavily, steadily and mixed their intake. If it was alcohol... the stronger the better.

The punks drank constantly. An alcoholic's alcoholic. Drink when you're thirsty and if you aren't thirsty then drink anyway.

Behaviour modification requires that you change the way you drink. Instead of drinking twenty beers you drink ten with the option open to drink more if you want. One beer is OK. Two beers is too many. Three beers is not enough. Sounds funny but it is true. Once you begin to relax with the alcohol coursing through the system you are there for the night.

It is a slow process but it works. It allows you to live your life without living in the dread of the AA syndrome... if I ever have another drink I will be lost forever. Takes years to become an alcoholic, so, it could take years to become an unalcoholic.

How quickly you drink also comes into play. You can drink twenty four beers over the course of the day and be, relatively, OK. You can drink the 24 in 6 hours and be stupid drunk. Modifying your intake has a lot to do with behaviour modification.

Some of my friends are still heavy drinkers and some of them die prematurely, become sickly with the vital organs dying off. Some of them quit but live in fear of starting up again. A small percentage change the way they consume and are content to enjoy their new lifestyle. It is a small percentage because it is still a relatively new concept.

I can drink and when need be drink anyone under the table. I don't have to but every once in a while there are people that have to be shown that they are not who they think they are or claim to be for their own good.

Kennedy sounds like she's doing the 24 in 6 hours.
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BabyRider
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Post by BabyRider »

Kensloft, I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from. Are you saying that people need to "rethink" how much they drink, or how much they consume in a certain time period, or pace themselves, and if they can master that, then they should be able to drink? Is this for anyone who drinks? I'm not sure I can agree, if this is what you mean. If it's not what you mean, maybe you could elaborate for me?

Myself, I am one of those people who just can't drink alcohol. Of any kind. In any amount. Ever. I tried the "pacing myself" thing. I tried the "no hard stuff" thing. I tried the "beer only" thing. Didn't work. Alcohol changes me. It does something to me that I can't control and it almost cost me my life. Not that I almost died from it, but it really did come within a day or two of costing me everything that meant anything to me. I was faced with a choice: Have the person that you love and the life you could have together, or have booze.

There was no question for me which mattered more.

Now, I liked drinking. I liked it a LOT. Getting a buzz on and loosening up felt good. If only I could have stopped there. But I couldn't. And once I got past a certain point, I got stupid. And mean.

I thought I could control it. I really honestly believed that I could. But a true alcoholic can't. And we always think we can. There are rare days that I think how good a drink would taste. Just one. I can handle one. And then I think about the look on the face of the man I love that last time I drank. There isn't anything in the world that could intice me to drink again when I think of that.

I quit for myself. I quit because I don't want to be the person I am when I drink. Because I'm NOT the person I was when I drank. Nobody liked her, least of all me. I don't miss her. Good riddance.

So, LC...to answer your questions, yep, I know an alcoholic. I don't know if it's a disease or not. If my choices are disease or excuse, I'd have to go with excuse. Lots of people would disagree. That's just for myself, how I see me. I never went to AA, and don't know if I could. I quit January 15th this year, and I did it on my own, but with the support of the most wonderful man in the world.

And how does it affect my life? It doesn't. Anymore.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
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[/FONT]










Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.




lady cop
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Post by lady cop »

BabyRider, you are very brave and honest. :yh_hugs i admire and respect you. and you WILL succeed. each day.
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BabyRider
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Post by BabyRider »

lady cop wrote: BabyRider, you are very brave and honest. :yh_hugs i admire and respect you. and you WILL succeed. each day.
LC, that means more than you know. Thanks.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]










Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.




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Post by abbey »

:yh_hugs :yh_hugs :yh_hugs From me too BRave Lady, an inspiration XX
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Peg
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Post by Peg »

Skittle--There is a wonderful program for families of alcoholics called Al-Anon.

As for "modifying your drinking habits", that means you still have control. An alcoholic cannot control their drinking habits.

A lot of times judges sentence people to attend AA meetings. If these people do not want to change, they are wasting not only their time, but the group's.
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Post by Bullet »

BabyRider wrote: Kensloft, I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from. Are you saying that people need to "rethink" how much they drink, or how much they consume in a certain time period, or pace themselves, and if they can master that, then they should be able to drink? Is this for anyone who drinks? I'm not sure I can agree, if this is what you mean. If it's not what you mean, maybe you could elaborate for me?

Myself, I am one of those people who just can't drink alcohol. Of any kind. In any amount. Ever. I tried the "pacing myself" thing. I tried the "no hard stuff" thing. I tried the "beer only" thing. Didn't work. Alcohol changes me. It does something to me that I can't control and it almost cost me my life. Not that I almost died from it, but it really did come within a day or two of costing me everything that meant anything to me. I was faced with a choice: Have the person that you love and the life you could have together, or have booze.

There was no question for me which mattered more.

Now, I liked drinking. I liked it a LOT. Getting a buzz on and loosening up felt good. If only I could have stopped there. But I couldn't. And once I got past a certain point, I got stupid. And mean.

I thought I could control it. I really honestly believed that I could. But a true alcoholic can't. And we always think we can. There are rare days that I think how good a drink would taste. Just one. I can handle one. And then I think about the look on the face of the man I love that last time I drank. There isn't anything in the world that could intice me to drink again when I think of that.

I quit for myself. I quit because I don't want to be the person I am when I drink. Because I'm NOT the person I was when I drank. Nobody liked her, least of all me. I don't miss her. Good riddance.

So, LC...to answer your questions, yep, I know an alcoholic. I don't know if it's a disease or not. If my choices are disease or excuse, I'd have to go with excuse. Lots of people would disagree. That's just for myself, how I see me. I never went to AA, and don't know if I could. I quit January 15th this year, and I did it on my own, but with the support of the most wonderful man in the world.

And how does it affect my life? It doesn't. Anymore.
I love you Baby Girl, :yh_hugs :-4 :yh_kiss
Death is more universal than life. For although everyone dies, not everyone truly lives.
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BabyRider
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Post by BabyRider »

Bullet wrote: I love you Baby Girl,

I love you too! :yh_kiss I couldn't have done it without you. :-4





Abbey, thanks. You guys and your support are fantastic.



Peg, I agree. "Modifying" drinking habits was what I failed so miserably at. I bought into that idea, and if I hadn't I might have been able to quit a long time ago.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]










Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.




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Peg
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Post by Peg »

lady cop wrote: hi Clint...i think the author of the original "big book" was simply called "bill"....my thought on the criteria for alcoholism is whether drinking has impacted a persons life, through family disruption, job problems, arrests, abuse of any kind, DUIs, "accidents", kids neglected; and if so, there is a problem having nothing to do with the number of drinks consumed, but rather their effect. ~~~~Clint, note, clear your PM box. :)



Back in 1979-1982, West Virginia had what was called a hygiene commissioner. This sounds a lot like the criteria he followed when deciding to "probable cause" someone into getting help. Although my husband was a very abusive alcoholic, he never missed work. He didn't show up on time, but he didn't miss. Unfortunately, his boss, also an alcoholic, understood this and let him keep his job. He never was arrested because his boss paid the cops well, from what I heard, so he had no arrests. Therefore, I was basically told to deal with it. He chose alcohol over paying the electric bill, etc. I hope laws have improved although I have my doubts.
kensloft
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Post by kensloft »

BabyRider wrote: Kensloft, I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from. Are you saying that people need to "rethink" how much they drink, or how much they consume in a certain time period, or pace themselves, and if they can master that, then they should be able to drink? Is this for anyone who drinks? I'm not sure I can agree, if this is what you mean. If it's not what you mean, maybe you could elaborate for me?



The problem is that there is the time element. You do not quit and then all of a sudden within a week or two start making choices that will allow you to drink as a casual drinker. Some people can do it quickly but for the most part it takes time to come to terms with the habits that you have created and enhanced by your drinking.

Myself, I am one of those people who just can't drink alcohol. Of any kind. In any amount. Ever. I tried the "pacing myself" thing. I tried the "no hard stuff" thing. I tried the "beer only" thing. Didn't work. Alcohol changes me. It does something to me that I can't control and it almost cost me my life. Not that I almost died from it, but it really did come within a day or two of costing me everything that meant anything to me. I was faced with a choice: Have the person that you love and the life you could have together, or have booze.

There was no question for me which mattered more.



It took me a year to get to the point where I was drinking every three days. I would still get drunk but only every three days. It took over three years to get to the point where I was solidly drinking for over a year every week only. No longer 'if I could only', but the way it was. Getting to two weeks was the same focus of trying to maintain the status quo. It was easier and was accomplished to the point that sometimes I forgot to drink on the appointed day. It was during this phase that you begin to realize that you can have a beer or two during that period of time without affecting your routine. When you would get to your drinking you wouldn't want to get drunk. Go figure?

Now, I liked drinking. I liked it a LOT. Getting a buzz on and loosening up felt good. If only I could have stopped there. But I couldn't. And once I got past a certain point, I got stupid. And mean.

I thought I could control it. I really honestly believed that I could. But a true alcoholic can't. And we always think we can. There are rare days that I think how good a drink would taste. Just one. I can handle one. And then I think about the look on the face of the man I love that last time I drank. There isn't anything in the world that could intice me to drink again when I think of that.

I quit for myself. I quit because I don't want to be the person I am when I drink. Because I'm NOT the person I was when I drank. Nobody liked her, least of all me. I don't miss her. Good riddance.



Hanging around the bar with the other alcoholics commiserating that nobody understands them except your drinking buddies.

So, LC...to answer your questions, yep, I know an alcoholic. I don't know if it's a disease or not. If my choices are disease or excuse, I'd have to go with excuse. Lots of people would disagree. That's just for myself, how I see me. I never went to AA, and don't know if I could. I quit January 15th this year, and I did it on my own, but with the support of the most wonderful man in the world.

And how does it affect my life? It doesn't. Anymore.



I'll go with the excuses.

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