To Be Fair On Gun Control.

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Scrat
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Post by Scrat »

I can't find a better reason to to have it than this. I really have to question why this individual has access to a gun.

What an idiot. He goes up to the teens in their vehicle, takes a swing at them and gets his butt beat. He then pulls a gun.

The video speaks for itself.

LiveLeak.com - Man pulls gun in road rage incident.
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

How do you suggest we screen for that?
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Scrat
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Post by Scrat »

Honestly you would have a very hard time, maybe next to impossible to weed people like that out. I don't think he should be allowed to carry a gun though and it's a crime for him not to be taken in front of a judge and have his right to carry ANY projectile weapon in his possession under any circumstance taken away. I think you'll agree that a big part of our problem with guns is that the laws we have are not enforced.
Bruv
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Post by Bruv »

Accountable;1423226 wrote: How do you suggest we screen for that?


I truly despair.

Is that a serious question ?

The whole point is you cannot screen for idiots, but you can limit their accessiblity to firearms.
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

Bruv;1423254 wrote: I truly despair.

Is that a serious question ?

The whole point is you cannot screen for idiots, but you can limit their accessiblity to firearms.
Y'know, if we locked every person in their own cell and didn't allow them out, then there would be no crime at all.

Yes, it was a serious question, though rhetorical.
Ahso!
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Post by Ahso! »

Bruv;1423254 wrote: I truly despair.The whole point is you cannot screen for idiots,

Is that a serious question ?

The whole point is you cannot screen for idiots, but you can limit their accessiblity to firearms.Not without trampling all over everyone's privacy to a far greater extent than outlawing the manufacturing, sale, possession and use of guns. I find it a much greater perverse intrusion of government and corporate America to label us with this or that condition, disorder or spectrum than to simply remove the most used and effective method of killing one another.

The second amendment of the constitution was penned in a time and by people who were completely ignorant of what we now understand about human behavior, and the amendment is written in such a simple fashion that it screams of that ignorance.

The fact that there are people in power and a number of voting individuals who are still that ignorant does not, at least in my mind, constitute a compelling reason to neglect what needs to happen.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



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Bruv
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Post by Bruv »

Accountable;1423266 wrote: Y'know, if we locked every person in their own cell and didn't allow them out, then there would be no crime at all.

Yes, it was a serious question, though rhetorical.
The alternative is to mandatorily insist every citizen is armed and takes lessons in handling.

Hold it...................that would be infringing their rights......right ?

(Am I in the right thread?)
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Post by Accountable »

Bruv;1423289 wrote: The alternative is to mandatorily insist every citizen is armed and takes lessons in handling.
No, that's not the ONLY alternative. Stop trying to oversimplify a complex issue. You're an intelligent person. I'm betting that you can come up with dozens of alternatives, if you truly want to be intellectually honest.
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Post by Bruv »

Accountable;1423292 wrote: No, that's not the ONLY alternative. Stop trying to oversimplify a complex issue. You're an intelligent person. I'm betting that you can come up with dozens of alternatives, if you truly want to be intellectually honest.


Well............you started the over simplification......and who mentioned ONLY ?

To me it is very simple, don't dodge the issue with over clever phrases such as "Guns don't kill people, people do"

Don't dodge the issue saying it's ALL about freedom, civil liberty, self determination etc etc.

Where does ALL that rate when you have to seriously consider arming Kindergarten teachers?

What does armed kindergarten teachers really mean.......realistically?

What about freedom to live without fear ?
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Ahso!
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Post by Ahso! »

Accountable;1423292 wrote: No, that's not the ONLY alternative. Stop trying to oversimplify a complex issue. You're an intelligent person. I'm betting that you can come up with dozens of alternatives, if you truly want to be intellectually honest.This is the second time you used this patronizing sentence this morning. Stop trying to control the conversations. Learn to respect what's said without insulting people. Control freak! You must be an American educator.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

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Ahso!
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Post by Ahso! »

Bruv;1423296 wrote: Well............you started the over simplification......and who mentioned ONLY ?

To me it is very simple, don't dodge the issue with over clever phrases such as "Guns don't kill people, people do"

Don't dodge the issue saying it's ALL about freedom, civil liberty, self determination etc etc.

Where does ALL that rate when you have to seriously consider arming Kindergarten teachers?

What does armed kindergarten teachers really mean.......realistically?

What about freedom to live without fear ?Guns do kill - guns kill fear - they kill ideas and opinions - they kill diversity, thought and the search for better, more brave alternatives to difficulty. To be fair, guns also do kill some intent to harm, but so does a stern look and any number of other alternatives.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

Bruv;1423296 wrote: Well............you started the over simplification......and who mentioned ONLY ?

To me it is very simple, don't dodge the issue with over clever phrases such as "Guns don't kill people, people do"

Don't dodge the issue saying it's ALL about freedom, civil liberty, self determination etc etc.

Where does ALL that rate when you have to seriously consider arming Kindergarten teachers?

What does armed kindergarten teachers really mean.......realistically?

What about freedom to live without fear ?
There is no right to live without fear. I wish there was such a right. Most of our politicians would be in prison for violations.

It's kinda pitiful that you see ideals of freedom, civil liberty, & self determination to be dodges, yet lift up such freedom from a base emotion as somehow legitimate.
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Accountable;1423301 wrote: There is no right to live without fear. I wish there was such a right. Most of our politicians would be in prison for violations.

It's kinda pitiful that you see ideals of freedom, civil liberty, & self determination to be dodges, yet lift up such freedom from a base emotion as somehow legitimate.


To cross this thread with another - in a civilised country a person should be able to live without fear of being attacked by his fellow citizens.
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

Bryn Mawr;1423321 wrote: To cross this thread with another - in a civilised country a person should be able to live without fear of being attacked by his fellow citizens.
In general, we do. ......... Well, everybody but Saint. He's some kind of violence magnet.
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Post by Bruv »

Accountable;1423326 wrote: In general, we do. ......... Well, everybody but Saint. He's some kind of violence magnet.


Re: Living without fear, Except for the apparent need to carry a concealed weapon ?

I shall bat it back to you, as an intelligent person, would you wish that America had not evolved it's need to have the right to bear arms ?

It is a fantasy question, something to get your imagination around, no need to trot out the trite pro arms verbiage, just your own wishes for a decent society.
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

Bruv;1423341 wrote: Re: Living without fear, Except for the apparent need to carry a concealed weapon ?

I shall bat it back to you, as an intelligent person, would you wish that America had not evolved it's need to have the right to bear arms ?There was no such evolution. The nation was created recognizing the need. Indeed, without the armed citizenry, the United States might never have been realized as the trumpeter of liberty that it was. (I'd originally written "bastion" but couldn't leave it in good conscience.)

Bruv;1423341 wrote: It is a fantasy question, something to get your imagination around, no need to trot out the trite pro arms verbiage, just your own wishes for a decent society.Your bigotry is noted. Please note the profound offense I take at your characterization. Phuck off.
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Post by Bruv »

Accountable;1423342 wrote: There was no such evolution. The nation was created recognizing the need. Indeed, without the armed citizenry, the United States might never have been realized as the trumpeter of liberty that it was. (I'd originally written "bastion" but couldn't leave it in good conscience.)

Your bigotry is noted. Please note the profound offense I take at your characterization. Phuck off.


Taking offence seems to be an American trait,mainly when their lifestyle is questioned, not even attacked......this time.

I posed a simply question, I take it your answer is no.

Fair enough.

Bastion or trumpeter?, I would suggest only if viewed from the isolation of middle America, there is a long list of countries with the oppossing point of view.

Bigotry: a person who has strong, unreasonable beliefs and who thinks that anyone who does not have the same beliefs is wrong.

Or somebody that takes offence when their beliefs are questioned ?
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Post by gmc »

Accountable;1423301 wrote: There is no right to live without fear. I wish there was such a right. Most of our politicians would be in prison for violations.

It's kinda pitiful that you see ideals of freedom, civil liberty, & self determination to be dodges, yet lift up such freedom from a base emotion as somehow legitimate.


Yet you have such rights built in to your constitution. For instance the right live live without fear of arbitrary arrest and imprisonment by your government - there has to be due process.

The right to live without the fear of your goods being seized at the whim of government.

The right to live without fear you will be persecuted for your religious beliefs

The right to say what you like without fear of reprisal.

There are probably others that lay themselves open to such interpretation. Rights aren't something given to you by a more powerful being sometimes you have to take them and remind those who think you are not entitled to such rights that they are wrong.

If in america the majority decide they have the right to live in a country where people can't own certain types of weapons and the right to bear arms stops at the point where the weapon of choice can be used for mass slaughter and they have a right to disarm those paranoid enough to think they need such protection who do you think will win such a contest? We the people or we the we have got guns and will shoot to kill.

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