How Many People Have Been Killed by Guns Since Newtown?

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Post by flopstock »

If as many as 60% of these gun deaths are suicide, where do we stand compared to other nations with suicide?



Are other nation suicide rates per 100000 noteably less than ours?
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Post by tude dog »

flopstock;1417576 wrote: If as many as 60% of these gun deaths are suicide, where do we stand compared to other nations with suicide?



Are other nation suicide rates per 100000 noteably less than ours?


Suicide in Japan exceeds 30,000 for 14th year

the most recent census (October 2010), Japan's population is 128,057,352

In Japan, you cannot buy a handgun, much less an assault rifle. In fact, even off-duty police officers are banned from carrying guns.

You can buy a shotgun or an air rifle, but it is not easy:

First, you have to take a class and a written exam.

Then there's a skill test at a shooting range

Next is a drug test

Then a mental evaluation.

Assuming you pass all those tests, you file with the police, who then run a background check.
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Post by Liamnc »

The brainless sheep who support new gun control laws are simply naïve and ignorant. They have forgotten history, and have not been to parts of the world where freedom has turned to tyranny because the people had no ability to fight back.

They can pass all the new gun laws they want, they wont be followed by the majority of gun owners. Even if they stop the sale of assault weapons and high cap mags. People will just buy and sell face to face, myself included. Obama is simply taking advantage of the shooting to push an agenda.
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Post by Ahso! »

Thanks for that insightful and moving post, Liam. Do you, by any chance, have anything to say on the subject that might be considered even slightly intelligent and useful in a mature conversation, or is that what your guns are for?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Saint_ »

Liamnc;1417695 wrote: The brainless sheep who support new gun control laws are simply na�ve and ignorant.


Or just worried about propaganda-spouting, knee-jerk, aggressive, trigger happy right wing extremists.

They have forgotten history,


History. Are you referring to Columbine, Virginia Tech, or Aurora?

and have not been to parts of the world where freedom has turned to tyranny because the people had no ability to fight back.


Yeah, there's that "fight back against the evil government" paranoia.

1. Our government isn't evil and never has been.

2. Even if it suddenly turned evil, what makes you think you could "fight back" against a government armed with nuclear weapons with your popgun?

That might have been possible during the 1700s, but it hasn't been a reality since the Civil War. That argument is not only outdated, it's nonsensical.

They can pass all the new gun laws they want, they wont be followed by the majority of gun owners.


Making all gun owners criminals? Works for me. Because criminals can't own guns!

Even if they stop the sale of assault weapons and high cap mags. People will just buy and sell face to face, myself included.


Oh, so YOU are a criminal and advocate breaking laws? And you have the gall to call yourself American. REAL Americans obey the law because they know this is a country of rule by the majority and rule of law. Only traitors and criminals break American laws. Anyone who would advocate breaking American laws has no idea of what being an American is.

Obama is simply taking advantage of the shooting to push an agenda.


Yeah, because from your post it's obvious that the bullet-riddled bodies of twenty elementary schoolchildren would have absolutely no effect on the opinions of the vast majority of Americans. The continuing massacre of Americans to the tune of 30,000 a year is just a political ploy of the left, right?:thinking:

You, and the gun-worshipping, terror-creating, rabid fanatics like yourself, are, by far, the single best reason for gun control.:mad:

Thanks for posting and making my point.:wah:
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Post by Saint_ »

Ahso!;1417697 wrote: Thanks for that insightful and moving post, Liam. Do you, by any chance, have anything to say on the subject that might be considered even slightly intelligent and useful in a mature conversation, or is that what your guns are for?


ROFLMAO! pwned! You said in one sentence what took me a whole paragraph to say! Nice work.
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Post by halfway »

Shame that the American government has never done anything "evil" in it's history.

Government are made up of men. Men seeking power. Power has the ability to corrupt. Regardless of ALL this, governments can produce tyranny and that is what is to be feared. The Founders were well aware of this and their thoughts were expressed in the protections they GAVE us through a Constitution.

Things America has NEVER done (sarcasm) to be construed as evil or against civil liberties. YOUR WORDS

Herded natives onto reservations and forced them to adopt to a lifestyle not their own and many times not even on their own familiar soil.

Inturned Japanese Americas behind wire for years while we sorted out WW2.

Attempted succession to keep blacks enslaved and stripped of all liberties.

You sir, are a moron.

"Owned" saint_. You have a lot of growing up to do.
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Post by Ahso! »

halfway;1417704 wrote: Shame that the American government has never done anything "evil" in it's history.

Government are made up of men. Men seeking power. Power has the ability to corrupt. Regardless of ALL this, governments can produce tyranny and that is what is to be feared. The Founders were well aware of this and their thoughts were expressed in the protections they GAVE us through a Constitution.y

Things America has NEVER done (sarcasm) to be construed as evil or against civil liberties. YOUR WORDS

Herded natives onto reservations and forced them to adopt to a lifestyle not their own and many times not even on their own familiar soil.

Inturned Japanese Americas behind wire for years while we sorted out WW2.

Attempted succession to keep blacks enslaved and stripped of all liberties.

You sir, are a moron.

"Owned" saint_. You have a lot of growing up to do.And so why didn't all you patriots rise up and stop all this evil? Could it be because the bunch of you are FOS?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Saint_ »

halfway;1417704 wrote:

Government are made up of men. Men seeking power. Power has the ability to corrupt. Regardless of ALL this, governments can produce tyranny and that is what is to be feared.


Sorry ... I'm not into living my life in fear like you.

The Founders were well aware of this and their thoughts were expressed in the protections they GAVE us through a Constitution.


Doesn't the amendment state that only a "well-regulated militia" should have weapons? If so why are you against regulation? And are you in a militia?

Things America has NEVER done (sarcasm) to be construed as evil or against civil liberties. YOUR WORDS

Herded natives onto reservations and forced them to adopt to a lifestyle not their own and many times not even on their own familiar soil.


I thought your argument was that the American government would turn on it's own citizens. At the time, natives didn't qualify. Besides that was a century and a half ago, got anything recently?

Inturned Japanese Americas behind wire for years while we sorted out WW2.


Also almost a century ago.

Attempted succession to keep blacks enslaved and stripped of all liberties.


More than a century ago and that wasn't even the American government, it was the Confederate government!

You sir, are a moron.


Perhaps, but I know my history and I can spell "interred."

"Owned" saint_. You have a lot of growing up to do.


Not as much as people who ignore the slaughter of their fellow citizens in their own country.:thinking:
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Post by Ahso! »

Ahso!;1417447 wrote: 11021180
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Post by Liamnc »

As far as I'mconcerned there is nothing else to say on the matter.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

halfway;1417704 wrote: Shame that the American government has never done anything "evil" in it's history.

Government are made up of men. Men seeking power. Power has the ability to corrupt. Regardless of ALL this, governments can produce tyranny and that is what is to be feared. The Founders were well aware of this and their thoughts were expressed in the protections they GAVE us through a Constitution.

Things America has NEVER done (sarcasm) to be construed as evil or against civil liberties. YOUR WORDS

Herded natives onto reservations and forced them to adopt to a lifestyle not their own and many times not even on their own familiar soil.

Inturned Japanese Americas behind wire for years while we sorted out WW2.

Attempted succession to keep blacks enslaved and stripped of all liberties.

You sir, are a moron.

"Owned" saint_. You have a lot of growing up to do.


The Founders were rich men, many owned slaves, many turned to government after the Revolution. The rest is too ridiculous to comment on, but you already know that.
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Post by tude dog »

Ahso!;1417706 wrote: And so why didn't all you patriots rise up and stop all this evil? Could it be because the bunch of you are FOS?


Working according to the rule of law is what we do. Not exciting, but so far seems to work best for us.

I won't apologize that we are civil and not fulfilling your prejudices.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Can't we all just get along? :-)
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Post by tude dog »

Ahso!;1417697 wrote: Thanks for that insightful and moving post, Liam. Do you, by any chance, have anything to say on the subject that might be considered even slightly intelligent and useful in a mature conversation, or is that what your guns are for?


Thank you Ahso!, for your slightly intelligent and useful in a mature comment. No doubt everybody here were enlightened.
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Post by tude dog »

AnneBoleyn;1417795 wrote: Can't we all just get along? :-)


To late, it is all about male testosterone.
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Post by Ahso! »

I just become a little perturbed when a person shows up and describes everyone here who disagrees with her opinion as "The brainless sheep who support new gun control laws are simply na�ve and ignorant. They have forgotten history,".

She went over the top and received the response she deserved.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Accountable »

That, and it was so much easier than actually trying to think of a rebuttal.
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Post by Ahso! »

Accountable;1417805 wrote: That, and it was so much easier than actually trying to think of a rebuttal. A rebuttal to: "The brainless sheep who support new gun control laws are simply na�ve and ignorant."? I gave one.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Be the wave that I am and then

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Post by Accountable »

Ahso!;1417808 wrote: A rebuttal to: "The brainless sheep who support new gun control laws are simply na�ve and ignorant."? I gave one.


And the rest?

Liamnc;1417695 wrote: ..... They have forgotten history, and have not been to parts of the world where freedom has turned to tyranny because the people had no ability to fight back.

They can pass all the new gun laws they want, they wont be followed by the majority of gun owners. Even if they stop the sale of assault weapons and high cap mags. People will just buy and sell face to face, myself included. Obama is simply taking advantage of the shooting to push an agenda.
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Post by Ahso! »

Ahso!;1417723 wrote: 11801221
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Post by Ahso! »

Accountable;1417811 wrote: And the rest?Knock yourself out. There's nothing there worth my time. Or are you dictating?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

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Post by Ahso! »

AnneBoleyn;1417795 wrote: Can't we all just get along? :-)This is what getting along looks like in the male world sometimes, Anne. :wah:

Think: Football, Hockey, Combat -. We're raised to be warriors, that's how America likes her men.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Accountable »

Ahso!;1417824 wrote: Knock yourself out. There's nothing there worth my time. Or are you dictating?
You should stretch before you run. You might hurt yourself.
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Post by Ahso! »

Ahso!;1417822 wrote: 12211311
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Post by Ahso! »

Ahso!;1418052 wrote: 13111440
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Post by hoppy »

So, where's your source? Or are you just pulling these #'s outta your ass? How many were innocent victims and how many killed by police?
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Post by Accountable »

Welcome back Hoppy! It's been way too long.
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Post by Ahso! »

Ahso!;1418365 wrote: 14401501
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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Post by Accountable »

hoppy;1418911 wrote: So, where's your source? Or are you just pulling these #'s outta your ass? How many were innocent victims and how many killed by police?
The link in the OP updates all the time. Pretty cool app. You click on one of the little people icons and it gives a name & link to the source.

I don't know why Ahso was skeered to answer you. I guess because he doesn't care to look beyond the numbers and actually think. It's much more fun to just point and scream that the sky is falling.
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Post by hoppy »

I didn't wade through all the posts. Libturds ain't worth the effort anyway.
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Post by Saint_ »

Accountable;1418920 wrote: . It's much more fun to just point and scream that the sky is falling.


Why it's "fun" that 1,400 people have died by guns in a month is beyond me. That's approaching the 9/11 number of dead and you had a problem with that, didn't you? But this is n big deal?

I'd say the sky IS falling.
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Post by Accountable »

Saint_;1419065 wrote: Why it's "fun" that 1,400 people have died by guns in a month is beyond me. That's approaching the 9/11 number of dead and you had a problem with that, didn't you? But this is n big deal?

I'd say the sky IS falling.
So you want to disarm the police as well? The one little silhouette thing I clicked on was about a cop shooting a perp in self defense.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

hoppy;1419063 wrote: I didn't wade through all the posts. Libturds ain't worth the effort anyway.


Looking to fight with someone?
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Post by Saint_ »

hoppy;1419063 wrote: Libturds ain't worth the effort anyway.


How re-thug-lickin of you...I guess that's the pros and neocons of it.
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

Not sure how many here remember the State Rep Gabby Gifford who was shot in the head.

Gabby was speaking at a public outside lot - some looney started shooting

he killed several & Gabby was shot in the head & survived. This was a couple of yrs. ago.

@ 2 weeks ago Gabby & her astronaut husband Mr. Gifford were in WA D.C.

Gabby gave a short labored speech on gun control

While she was giving her speech another looney in her home town shot up a business

again a few died. Then the gun man @ 70 yrs. old committed suicide.

It just doesn't stop

I believe Ahso's count is climbing.

Patsy
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Patsy Warnick;1419151 wrote: Not sure how many here remember the State Rep Gabby Gifford who was shot in the head.

Gabby was speaking at a public outside lot - some looney started shooting

he killed several & Gabby was shot in the head & survived. This was a couple of yrs. ago.

@ 2 weeks ago Gabby & her astronaut husband Mr. Gifford were in WA D.C.

Gabby gave a short labored speech on gun control

While she was giving her speech another looney in her home town shot up a business

again a few died. Then the gun man @ 70 yrs. old committed suicide.

It just doesn't stop

I believe Ahso's count is climbing.

Patsy


They showed her speech on UK TV - very moving.
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Post by Accountable »

This was moving as well:

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Post by Patsy Warnick »

Not sure if this was moving - I didn't tear up

but he certainly made his point.. Bravo

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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Accountable;1419217 wrote: This was moving as well:




Not moving but he'd obviously put a lot of thought into what he wanted to say.

I agree that the way to resolve the impasse is to change the Constitution, that has never been a point of dispute (although I would dispute that it is God given, it was written by man for man).

That the state constitution states that anyone and everyone has a right to own as many of whatever types of guns they wish with no registration process is insane. There is a measurable minority of the population who are mentally unbalanced in a way that it would be criminally negligent of the state to allow them to have free access to guns. OK, guns do not kill people it is the "evil" person holding the gun that does that but where it is predictable that a person or group of people is/are likely to act in that way then the cause of the deaths is the decision to allow that person / group free access to guns.
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Post by Accountable »

He didn't say the constitution was God given; he said the rights are endowed by our Creator.

He didn't do a very good job of indicating where his quote ended, probably because he was in Connecticut and wasn't thinking about the international exposure of Youtube, but the Conn. Constitution says "SEC. 15. Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state," and the rest is his elaboration/explanation.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/asp/Content/const ... tution.pdf
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Accountable;1419234 wrote: He didn't say the constitution was God given; he said the rights are endowed by our Creator.

He didn't do a very good job of indicating where his quote ended, probably because he was in Connecticut and wasn't thinking about the international exposure of Youtube, but the Conn. Constitution says "SEC. 15. Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state," and the rest is his elaboration/explanation.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/asp/Content/const ... tution.pdf


And what is the difference?
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Post by Accountable »

Bryn Mawr;1419235 wrote: And what is the difference?Between a constitution and rights?? One is a document, in our case setting the limitations of government. Rights, generally, are those actions we can take independent of others, without obligating others to take action.
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Post by hoppy »

AnneBoleyn;1419097 wrote: Looking to fight with someone?


So, asking for a source for someone's questionable claims is looking for a fight? How ****in liberal of you.
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Post by YZGI »

Good video ACC. One of the better ones I've seen.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Accountable;1419242 wrote: Between a constitution and rights?? One is a document, in our case setting the limitations of government. Rights, generally, are those actions we can take independent of others, without obligating others to take action.


No, between a constitution that was God given and one that was endowed by our creator which was the change of phrasing that you picked me up on.

Our creator is God for no one else could have created the universe.

To endow is to give, the two phrases are synonymous.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

hoppy;1419247 wrote:



So, asking for a source for someone's questionable claims is looking for a fight? How ****in liberal of you.


I'm not the one calling people Turds. You are.
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Post by Accountable »

Bryn Mawr;1419260 wrote: No, between a constitution that was God given and one that was endowed by our creator which was the change of phrasing that you picked me up on.

Our creator is God for no one else could have created the universe.

To endow is to give, the two phrases are synonymous.


No one but you said anything about the constitution coming from God. I didn't say the constitution came from God. I didn't say that the constitution was endowed by our creator, either. Neither did the gent in the video.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Accountable;1419284 wrote: No one but you said anything about the constitution coming from God. I didn't say the constitution came from God. I didn't say that the constitution was endowed by our creator, either. Neither did the gent in the video.


And I thought I was the pedant. OK, I dispute that the right mentioned in the constitution are endowed by the creator, the right to bare arms is part of a social contract written by man for man.
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How Many People Have Been Killed by Guns Since Newtown?

Post by tude dog »

Bryn Mawr;1419290 wrote: And I thought I was the pedant. OK, I dispute that the right mentioned in the constitution are endowed by the creator, the right to bare arms is part of a social contract written by man for man.


Something is getting confused here.

The Creator thingy comes from the Declaration of Independence.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.-

I love the Preamble to our Constitution.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

It was a two step process.

One establish the right as inherent. Next, Who is to establish this assumed right.
If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles,” Doug Larson.

“Never doubt the courage of the French. They were the ones who discovered that snails are edible.”
― Doug Larson

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