Superstition Creates Killers?

Ahso!
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Post by Ahso! »

Is it possible that that is what drove Adam Lanza to do what he did? Could he have thought that he was sparing his mother and those children of something more horrific had they lived? We'll probably never know. What is common among those who are labeled with Asperger's is that they internalize societial messages, obsess over them and then act on their instincts first. With that in mind, would it not be prudent as a society to make sure that fictional superstitious stories are recognized for exactly what they are rather than real life events? Isn't it better to raise our children in a society where reason and logic are more important than myth? Theology may have a place in society, but it's got to be rational and not overdone.

BEIJING -- Officials say a man who went into a school in central China and stabbed 23 children last week was "psychologically affected" by doomsday predictions.China School Attack: Officials Say Knife-Wielding Man Was Affected By 'Doomsday Rumors'
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Post by Accountable »

:yh_youkid There ya go. If you can't find a link, invent one.
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Post by Bruv »

Accountable;1413034 wrote: :yh_youkid There ya go. If you can't find a link, invent one.


Ahso rubs you up the wrong way doesn't he ?
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Post by Ahso! »

Accountable;1413034 wrote: :yh_youkid There ya go. If you can't find a link, invent one.You think the report from China is a lie?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Ahso! »

Americans react strongly if you dare touch their religion or their guns. I expect emotional-first responses from some Americans.
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Post by Bruv »

Ahso!;1413040 wrote: Americans react strongly if you dare touch their religion or their guns. I expect emotional-first responses from some Americans.


Now I see.........if I was American I might be wound up by that sort of comment.
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Post by Ahso! »

Bruv;1413041 wrote: Now I see.........if I was American I might be wound up by that sort of comment.It might appear that my comment was more of a convenience for you than anything else. After all, I basically said the same thing you did. "Rub the wrong way" is suggestive of an irrational and emotional response, is it not? All I did was add that I expected it from some Americans. I'd be naive if I didn't.
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Post by Bruv »

Ahso!;1413043 wrote: It might appear that my comment was more of a convenience for you than anything else. After all, I basically said the same thing you did. "Rub the wrong way" is suggestive of an irrational and emotional response, is it not? All I did was add that I expected it from some Americans. I'd be naive if I didn't.


Yes but without quoting my post it appears to just be an independent post unrelated to mine.
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Post by Ahso! »

Bruv;1413044 wrote: Yes but without quoting my post it appears to just be an independent post unrelated to mine.That was intentional. I didn't want Accountable to think I was attacking him personally or piling on; nor did I want you to think I was trying to swap spit with you. What's said between you and him on a personal level remains between the two of you as far as I'm concerned.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Ahso! »

Accountable;1413034 wrote: :yh_youkid There ya go. If you can't find a link, invent one.I hope you were careful not to hurt anyone as you ran away.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by jones jones »

We all have our own take on this tragedy. All that is said and done now will be "reactional", of course it will. None among us could have forseen such an event. The irony of it all is that exactly what his mother sought to prevent in her own silly way, has come to pass. Chickens have a habit of coming home to roost.

All the Presidents & Prime Ministers & "leaders" in the world can offer their sympathy and advice, yet none can change what happened. Of course all right thinking earthlings will mourn the loss of so many lives and the Cosmos itself will weep, but all we can do is try to prevent such a tragedy occuring again.

But how many times have we been down this road? We have never been able to predict what sick people will do and we will never be able to.

The only "positive", if I may stretch a point, to come out of this is that this person killed himself, so that at least we have one less sicko among us.
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Post by Ahso! »

So, it appears that Nancy Lanza has some superstitions of her own.

Can this case actually be made?



Marsha said [Nancy] had turned her home ‘into a fortress’. She added: ‘Nancy had a survivalist philosophy which is why she was stockpiling guns. She had them for defense.

‘She was stockpiling food. She grew up on a farm in New Hampshire. She was skilled with guns. We talked about preppers and preparing for the economy collapsing.’

Adam Lanza’s Mother Was an Avid Gun Collector -- Daily Intelligencer
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

I didn't realise the mother collected / stocked guns

to protect herself from what - her own son?

Or perhaps she had a mental disease that the son inherited.?

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Post by flopstock »

Patsy Warnick;1413197 wrote: I didn't realise the mother collected / stocked guns



to protect herself from what - her own son?



Or perhaps she had a mental disease that the son inherited.?



Patsy


By all reports I've seen she was a lovely and generous woman.



She had game nights with other folks in her neighborhood and was willing to help out anyone.



She was a gardener.



She also owned guns.
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Post by Ahso! »

From what we're learning so far, and it's still very early, by all accounts it appears Adam and Nancy Lanza enjoyed a close mother/son relationship. My premise here is that it's possible that Adam's delusions, which may have been shared by his mother, and indeed fed to him by her unwittingly, drove him to do what he thought was an altruistic act. To some, the idea that The Apocalypse is coming can be very real, especially when the authorities in one's life are preaching it and acting out on it to any degree. People labeled with Asperger's are very trusting and loyal toward individuals and groups who gain their confidence. That's a good thing provided life is rooted in reality and not fiction.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by Patsy Warnick »

Close relationship - yet he killed his mother.

I can't understand this?

But then again I can't understand why? for the whole scenario.?:-5

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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Patsy Warnick;1413204 wrote: Close relationship - yet he killed his mother.

I can't understand this?

But then again I can't understand why? for the whole scenario.?:-5

Patsy


Maybe he didn't want her to see what he was about to do. Ahso said they "enjoyed" a close mother/son relationship. We don't know ANYTHING yet. I can imagine them in an incestuous relationship, that's enough to drive someone over the edge. As I said in the beginning on Friday, the father, unless he totally checked out after the divorce, & the brother should be thoroughly questioned. They must know something.
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Post by Ahso! »

For clarity, my use of the word "enjoyed" was not intended to insinuate any such thing as incest between Adam and Nancy Lanza; there is not even a hint of any such relationship as far as I know.

Anne speaks for Anne.
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

Oh Anne

your right - I never thought incestuous relationship as a possibility.

Good God.

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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Ahso!;1413213 wrote: For clarity, my use of the word "enjoyed" was not meant to insinuate any such thing as incest between Adam and Nancy Lanza; there is not even a hint of any such relationship as far as I know.

Anne speaks for Anne.


I know you weren't insinuating it. We can't assume anything at this point, especially that anything was "normal".
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Post by Ahso! »

Patsy Warnick;1413214 wrote: Oh Anne

your right - I never thought incestuous relationship as a possibility.

Good God.

PatsyPleas, Please, Please, let's not go running away with this, it's pure speculation without any merit.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Ahso!;1413216 wrote: Pleas, Please, Please, let's not go running away with this, it's pure speculation without any merit.


It is also speculation to assume they had anything "normal" going on.
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Post by Ahso! »

AnneBoleyn;1413215 wrote: I know you weren't insinuating it. We can't assume anything at this point, especially that anything was "normal".It's best to stick with what is factual. I realize it's early but lets go by what family and friends are actually saying.
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

I said possibility

and sorry - I'll wait for more info from investigation .

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Post by flopstock »

Yikes!
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Post by Ahso! »

AnneBoleyn;1413212 wrote: Maybe he didn't want her to see what he was about to do.It makes sense that he'd kill the person he loved most first.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by YZGI »

Ahso!;1413230 wrote: It makes sense that he'd kill the person he loved most first.


Ok, but then, why children? Why not politicians or authority figures?
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Post by jones jones »

I can't help thinking that somewhere along the line we, and by "we" I mean perhaps society in general, failed these deceased children. Kindergarten children are surely unable to protect themselves from a maniac of this ilk and we should have been able to to do better. Children trust us to keep them safe & if we can't, who will?

Don't ask me for the answer because I don't have it ... I wish I did. After every incident like this we promise "never again" but it keeps happening over and over again.

Stricter gun laws? People who want to kill will find a weapon to use. More security at schools? Locked doors perhaps and then a fire breaks out and hundreds die. Armed guards parolling the corridors? Heaven forbid that we actually brings firearms in the schools.

As I said, I do not have an answer and quite frankly, I'm not sure there is one.
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Post by Ahso! »

YZGI;1413233 wrote: Ok, but then, why children? Why not politicians or authority figures?It wasn't out of hate or malice. He wanted to spare the children the "coming apocalypse", beginning with the financial collapse. The mother appears to have had a bit of an obsession, not only with guns, but money as well.

When she filed for divorce her main concern was finances. Her former husband left her "very well off" according to the sister-in-law. She didn't need to work.

Nancy Lanza appears to have been a bit obsessive. And if that's the case, what in the world was she doing with all these guns? People should have emotional and mental evaluation before obtaining any gun license. The gun lobby doesn't want any part of that conversation, I assure you.
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Post by Bruv »

All people react differently to their parenting.

I am one of 5 brothers (1 sister) and when we talk of our parents and how they managed their parenting, we all have a different take on it.

One brother's take is so different as to be unrecognisable by all the others.
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Post by Ahso! »

Bruv;1413236 wrote: All people react differently to their parenting.

I am one of 5 brothers (1 sister) and when we talk of our parents and how they managed their parenting, we all have a different take on it.

One brother's take is so different as to be unrecognisable by all the others.I'm the youngest of seven and we've often talked about coming from two completely different families.
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Post by YZGI »

I'm the middle of three boys. I obviously got beaten more often. I do not however have middle child syndrome..LOL
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

YZGI;1413233 wrote: Ok, but then, why children? Why not politicians or authority figures?
Grownups scare him, but not little kids.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Ahso!;1413235 wrote: It wasn't out of hate or malice. He wanted to spare the children the "coming apocalypse", beginning with the financial collapse. The mother appears to have had a bit of an obsession, not only with guns, but money as well.

When she filed for divorce her main concern was finances. Her former husband left her "very well off" according to the sister-in-law. She didn't need to work.

Nancy Lanza appears to have been a bit obsessive. And if that's the case, what in the world was she doing with all these guns? People should have emotional and mental evaluation before obtaining any gun license. The gun lobby doesn't want any part of that conversation, I assure you.


Look who is speculating now!
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Post by flopstock »

It was a sure bet that eventually folks would bring it around to being the mothers fault.



Isn't it always?



Cripes!:wah:
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Post by Ahso! »

It's apparently necessary to employ more than remedial reading skills and rudimentary behavioral prejudices to understand what I've said. I didn't blame anyone, I don't "blame" people, I comment on their behaviors.

That said; they were the mother's guns, were they not? She did raise the child, did she not? She spent most of the time with him, isn't that right?
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Post by Ahso! »

AnneBoleyn;1413247 wrote: Look who is speculating now!All based on what's been reported as fact by the media, Anne. The articles are in the thread if you care to read them. All I'm doing is applying what's out there to my premise. I could end up being completely wrong in the end, and I'm not afraid of that happening. However, so far it's looking pretty accurate from where I'm standing.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

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Post by Ahso! »

AnneBoleyn;1413246 wrote: Grownups scare him, but not little kids.I thought he also killed 8 adults, including himself, no?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Ahso!;1413253 wrote: All based on what's been reported as fact by the media, Anne. The articles are in the thread if you care to read them. All I'm doing is applying what's out there to my premise. I could end up being completely wrong in the end, and I'm not afraid of that happening. However, so far it's looking pretty accurate from where I'm standing.


Excuse me.

"...wasn't out of hate or malice. He wanted to spare the children the "coming apocalypse", beginning with the financial collapse. The mother appears to have had a bit of an obsession, not only with guns, but money as well.

When she filed for divorce her main concern was finances. Her former husband left her "very well off" according to the sister-in-law. She didn't need to work."

Nancy Lanza appears to have been a bit obsessive.

Coming apocalypse--is that a quote from Adam Lanza? Is there an eyewitness, an "ear" witness, or is this hearsay or your opinion? Here is your opinion: mom was obsessive. When I learned she was from NH, where people have arsenals, & I lived quite a few years in NH, I understood this better.

Everyone thinks about money. Especially at her level of income. Not unusual, not obsessive, except IYO.

Flop, if I may answer you here, what I have been suggesting is What about the Father? & I don't know anything at all, but I am not "blaming" mother, I want to go after Father! or lack thereof! A father's influence can be felt as much in absence, & they all lived in the same small town. I want to know everything about Adam Lanza.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Ahso!;1413254 wrote: I thought he also killed 8 adults, including himself, no?


He killed Women. Women watching Children. Like taking candy from a baby.

eta--I am so repulsed by having to say the above, but I am trying to see it his way.
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Post by flopstock »

YZGI;1413241 wrote: I'm the middle of three boys. I obviously got beaten more often. I do not however have middle child syndrome..LOL


then you did not get beaten enough.:sneaky:
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Post by Ahso! »

AnneBoleyn;1413259 wrote: He killed Women. Women watching Children. Like taking candy from a baby.

eta--I am so repulsed by having to say the above, but I am trying to see it his way.Ah, I assumed you included women as "grownups".
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Ahso!;1413262 wrote: Ah, I assumed you included women as "grownups".


Not all women. Not females who are police, etc. But grammar school kids? The school only goes thru 4th grade. No big 6th grade boys who already play football, no bossy tough girls. Little babies & those sweet women who are not expecting such incredible evil.
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Post by Ahso! »

AnneBoleyn;1413258 wrote: Excuse me.

"...wasn't out of hate or malice. He wanted to spare the children the "coming apocalypse", beginning with the financial collapse.That's my premise. I was answering a question when I wrote it. AnneBoleyn;1413258 wrote: The mother appears to have had a bit of an obsession, not only with guns, but money as well.

When she filed for divorce her main concern was finances. Her former husband left her "very well off" according to the sister-in-law. She didn't need to work."

Nancy Lanza appears to have been a bit obsessive.The first part is my summary and the rest are quotes from interviewed people. I don't see a problem with that. If I'm incorrect about her being a bit obsessive, show me, I'll admit if I'm wrong.



AnneBoleyn;1413258 wrote: Coming apocalypse--is that a quote from Adam Lanza?nope AnneBoleyn;1413258 wrote: Is there an eyewitness, an "ear" witness, or is this hearsay or your opinion?again, check what's in the articles AnneBoleyn;1413258 wrote: Here is your opinion: mom was obsessive.Not exactly. Though if Adam was Autistic, theres evidence out there that it might be genetic. I'll admit that I'm making the jump that that might have been from her genes, but that's because of her reported behaviors from the SIL and the gardener.AnneBoleyn;1413258 wrote: When I learned she was from NH, where people have arsenals, & I lived quite a few years in NH, I understood this better.okay.

AnneBoleyn;1413258 wrote: Everyone thinks about money. Especially at her level of income. Not unusual, not obsessive, except IYO.Again, I could be wrong.

AnneBoleyn;1413258 wrote: Flop, if I may answer you here, what I have been suggesting is What about the Father? & I don't know anything at all, but I am not "blaming" mother, I want to go after Father! or lack thereof! A father's influence can be felt as much in absence, & they all lived in the same small town. I want to know everything about Adam Lanza.She was talking about me, I'm the "folks".
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Post by Ahso! »

AnneBoleyn;1413263 wrote: Not all women. Not females who are police, etc. But grammer school kids? The school only goes thru 4th grade. No big 6th grade boys who already play football, no bossy tough girls. Little babies & those sweet women who are not expecting such incredible evil.You think Adam chose that school because there were no males there?
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Ahso!;1413267 wrote: You think Adam chose that school because there were no males there?


I was surprised there were no male teachers. I don't know what Adam thought, but isn't it logical? No real resistance, he knew the teachers would rush to shield the kids, would sacrifice themselves.

And btw, I don't want any reckless complaints against teachers ever again! There's been too much disrespect for this profession.
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

Today on the news it's reported the mother took this son out shooting.

She had plenty of gun knowledge & taught this son to be a marksman.

I would have to question the parenting here.?

I have not heard much about the Father - other than the divorce & the amount of money he paid & the support he guaranteed to this son.

support was money - college - and a car.

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Superstition Creates Killers?

Post by AnneBoleyn »

So they lived in the same small town & never interacted? Just financial? I know you don't know but the father must know things, even if the information comes from the older brother Ryan.

I have heard therapies for kids that involved all sorts of things. She may have thought, like so many do in NH, that it builds confidence & responsibility. There were so many guns in NH, so much social shooting (targets, I should hasten to say!) that she absorbed all this. I do think she should have stored the guns outside the home in a locked facility in the past couple of years, or when she felt unable to help him.
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Accountable
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Superstition Creates Killers?

Post by Accountable »

Ahso!;1413218 wrote: It's best to stick with what is factual. I realize it's early but lets go by what family and friends are actually saying.:yh_rotfl Holy PHUCK! :yh_rotfl You actually posted that?? And probably in all seriousness!! :yh_rotfl

Way to call him on it, Anne.
Ahso!
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Superstition Creates Killers?

Post by Ahso! »

Accountable;1413273 wrote: :yh_rotfl Holy PHUCK! :yh_rotfl You actually posted that?? And probably in all seriousness!! :yh_rotfl

Way to call him on it, Anne. How is suggesting that the mother might have been having an incestuous relationship with her son calling me on anything?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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