Brits Demand The Right To Defend Home Against Burglars

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chrisb84uk
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Brits Demand The Right To Defend Home Against Burglars

Post by chrisb84uk »

I don't know whether anyone saw this but a while back ago on BBC1, a program invited an ex-burglar to try and break into a house, (with the occupants consent of course.) They were out to show the ease in which professional burglars can break into un-secure homes and loot them of what they see fit. It really goes to show that 1 must always consider safety and security at home.
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Pearl Harbor
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Brits Demand The Right To Defend Home Against Burglars

Post by Pearl Harbor »

Many nights, Miss P. had a .38-caliber pistol in one hand and rosary beads in the other.

New Orleans and other areas affected by Hurricane Katrina guns proved as necessary to life as food and water. Many people saved their lives and protected their property with guns. Without the guns, who knows what may have happened to them.

__________________________________________

Erich Pratt wrote a good synopsis of why Katrina Educates World On Need For Owning Guns

"All our operators are busy right now. Please remain on the line and an operator will be with you shortly. Your call is important to us."

Can you imagine any words more horrifying after dialing 9-1-1? Your life's in danger, but there's no one available to help you.

For several days in September, life was absolutely terrifying for many New Orleans residents who got stranded in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. There were no operators... there were no phone calls being handled.

Heck, there was no 9-1-1. Even if the phone lines had been working, there were no police officers waiting to be dispatched.

Hundreds of New Orleans police officers had fled the city. Some took their badges and threw them out the windows of their cars as they sped away. Others participated in the looting of the city.

While there were many officers who acted honorably -- even apprehending dangerous thugs while grieving the loss of their own family members -- most residents were forced to fend for themselves.

Many did so successfully, using their own firearms, until New Orleans Police Commissioner Edwin Compass III issued the order to confiscate their guns.

Anti-gun zealots confiscate firearms from law-abiding citizens

On September 8, several news outlets began reporting that officials in New Orleans were confiscating firearms... not from looters, but from law-abiding citizens who legally owned firearms!

"No one will be able to be armed," said Deputy Chief Warren Riley. "We are going to take all the weapons."

It was like a scene out of the former Soviet Union or Communist China.

The Associated Press quoted Compass, the police commissioner, as saying, "Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons."

Well, there you have it. Given the chance, gun control advocates will always implement their real agenda -- confiscation of firearms from everyone... except the police!

ABC News video on September 8 showed National Guard troops going house-to-house, smashing down doors, searching for residents, and confiscating guns. Every victim of disarmament was clearly not a thug or looter, but a decent resident wanting to defend his or her home.

Many of the troops were clearly conflicted by their orders. "It is surreal," said one member of the Oklahoma National Guard who was going door-to-door in New Orleans. "You never expect to do this in your own country."

Many never would have expected it -- confiscating firearms from decent people who were relying on those firearms to protect themselves from the looters.

It was an outrageous order -- one that should not have been obeyed. There was no constitutional authority for the directive, and it ignored the fact that many good people had already used firearms to successfully defend their lives and property.

Guns were saving lives and protecting property prior to the confiscation order

As flood waters started rising in New Orleans, a wave of violence rolled through the city.

"It was pandemonium for a couple of nights," said Charlie Hackett, a New Orleans resident. "We just felt that when [looters] got done with the stores, they’d come to the homes."

Hackett was right... which is why he and his neighbor, John Carolan, stood guard over their homes to ward off looters who, rummaging through the neighborhoods, were smashing windows and ransacking stores.

Armed looters did eventually come to Carolan's house and demanded his generator. But Carolan showed them his gun and they left.

No wonder then that gun stores, which weren't under water, were selling firearms at a record pace to people looking to defend themselves. "I've got people like you wouldn't believe, lots of people, coming in and buying handguns," said Briley Reed, the assistant manager of the E-Z Pawn store in Baton Rouge.

"I've even had soldiers coming in here buying guns," Reed said.

Makeshift militias patrol neighborhoods

In the Algiers neighborhood of New Orleans, dozens of neighbors banded together to protect their neighborhood.

"There's about 20 or 30 guys in addition to us. We know all of them and where they are," Gregg Harris said. "People armed themselves so quickly, rallying together. I think it's why [our] neighborhood survived."

Harris isn't joking about the armaments. A gun battle erupted one afternoon between armed neighbors and looters. Two of the thugs were shot.

Since then, no more looters have bothered the neighborhood. But the neighbors aren't letting their guard down. They all take their turn keeping watch.

Gareth Stubbs sits in a rocking chair on his front porch, holding his shotgun and a bottle of bug spray.

In another home, a 74-year old mother keeps the following near the bed: her rosary, a shotgun and a 38-caliber pistol.

Vinnie Pervel and two other volunteers man a balcony-turned-watchtower with five borrowed shotguns, a pistol, a flare gun, and old AK-47 and loads of ammunition.

To be sure, many of the weapons were borrowed from neighbors who fled before the storm hit. Pervel and Harris did not have any working firearms themselves in the aftermath of the storm. But because Pervel had been keeping in contact (via phone) with neighbors who had already evacuated, he got permission to go into the vacant homes and get his neighbors' weapons.

"I never thought I'd be going into my neighbor's house and taking their guns," Pervel said. "We wrote down what gun came from what house so we can return them when they get back."

Firearms were a hot commodity

It would be an understatement to say that firearms were the hottest commodity in the days following the massive destruction. In Gulf Port, Mississippi, Ron Roland, 51, lost everything -- three homes, four cars, a bait-and-tackle shop and a boat. It was all destroyed by Hurricane Katrina.

Nevertheless, Roland was determined to salvage what he could amidst the rubble -- with or without police protection. And it's a good thing, too, because there would be no such thing as "police protection" in the days following the storm.

Standing guard over one of his homes with a handgun in his waistband, Roland used his firearm to stop looters from rummaging through his storm-damaged property.

Roland and his son even performed a citizen's arrest on one plunderer and then warned future thieves by posting the following message in his yard: "NO TRESPASSERS! ARMED HOMEOWNERS."

Signs like this were common throughout the Gulf Coast region in the days following Katrina.

Unfortunately, some people had to learn the hard way about the utility of keeping firearms for protection.

Water, food... but what about guns?

The managers at the Covenant Home nursing center in New Orleans were more than prepared to ride out the hurricane. They had food and supplies to last the 80 residents for more than ten days.

They had planned for every contingency... or so they thought.

"We had excellent plans. We had enough food for 10 days," said Peggy Hoffman, the home's Executive Director.

But they had no firearms. So when carjackers hijacked the home's bus and drove by the center shouting "Get out!" to the residents, they were completely helpless.

All of the residents, most of them in wheelchairs, were evacuated to other nursing homes in the state.

Hoffman says she has now learned her lesson.

Next time, "We'll have to equip our department heads with guns and teach them how to shoot," she said.

Thank goodness someone is learning from their mistakes.

Does anyone remember Los Angeles?

We should have learned this lesson more than ten years ago when the entire country saw horrifying images coming out of Los Angeles.

If the riots of 1992 taught us anything, it is that the police can't always be there to protect us.

For several days, that city was in complete turmoil as stores were looted and burned. Motorists were dragged from their cars and beaten.

Further aggravating the situation, police were very slow in responding to the crisis. Many Guardsmen, after being mobilized to the affected areas, sat by and watched the violence because their rifles were low on ammunition.

But not everybody in Los Angeles suffered. In some of the hot spots, Korean merchants were able to successfully protect their stores with semi-automatic firearms.

In areas where armed citizens banded together for self-protection, their businesses were spared while others (which were left unprotected) burned to the ground.

The pictures of Korean merchants defending their stores left quite an impression on one group of people living in Los Angeles: those who had previously identified themselves as gun control advocates.

Press reports described how life-long gun control supporters were even running to gun stores to buy an item they never thought they would need -- a gun. Tragically, they were surprised (and outraged!) to learn there was a 15-day waiting period upon firearms.

Confiscating guns puts people at risk

Fast forward more than a decade, it seems that many folks still haven't learned the lessons from previous tragedies. If the Mayor and his cronies really wanted to help the decent citizens of New Orleans, they would have been issuing people firearms instead of taking them away.

These guns were the only thing that prevented many good folks from becoming victims in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

Now that residents are disarmed, will the Mayor provide 24-hour, round-the-clock protection for each of these disarmed families? Will he make himself personally liable for anyone who is injured or killed as a result of being prevented from defending himself or his family?

When your life is in danger, you don't want to rely on a police force that is stretched way too thin. And the last thing you want to hear when you call 9-1-1 is, "All our operators are busy right now...."

That might just be the last thing you ever hear.
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Accountable
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Brits Demand The Right To Defend Home Against Burglars

Post by Accountable »

I don't own a gun, but I will never give up my right to bear one, should I need it. If that right is stolen from me by politicians and well-meaning but short-sighted people, I will have to steal a gun.
gmc
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Brits Demand The Right To Defend Home Against Burglars

Post by gmc »

posted by pearl harbor

Fast forward more than a decade, it seems that many folks still haven't learned the lessons from previous tragedies. If the Mayor and his cronies really wanted to help the decent citizens of New Orleans, they would have been issuing people firearms instead of taking them away.


He might also have made plans to evacuate those who had no private transport you're poor tough **** seems a harsh way of looking at things.

America has a violent gun culture this is peculiar to them, most people react in a crisis by helping each other. Maybe you should start worrying about what it is that makes americans turn on each other in a crisis.
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Brits Demand The Right To Defend Home Against Burglars

Post by Accountable »

gmc wrote: posted by pearl harbor





He might also have made plans to evacuate those who had no private transport you're poor tough **** seems a harsh way of looking at things.



America has a violent gun culture this is peculiar to them, most people react in a crisis by helping each other. Maybe you should start worrying about what it is that makes americans turn on each other in a crisis.
IMO, this particular behiavior is not peculiar to America, it is peculiar to inner-city poor. Even in the shelter where I am, they look at each other suspiciously. Most seem to trust us because we're strangers, rather than in spite of it. Tensions seem to be highest when someone is handing out something. Many are concerned that the goodies (food, money, free facials, whatever) will run out before they get their share. The attitude seems to be "someone else is getting something and I'm not." As long as everybody has nothing, everything's fair.



I believe any large city with a concentration of gov't-supported poor would react the same way, given the same circumstances. I'm not defending the actions - they are apalling. This is my objective observation.
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Post by gmc »

posted by accountable

IMO, this particular behiavior is not peculiar to America, it is peculiar to inner-city poor. Even in the shelter where I am, they look at each other suspiciously. Most seem to trust us because we're strangers, rather than in spite of it. Tensions seem to be highest when someone is handing out something. Many are concerned that the goodies (food, money, free facials, whatever) will run out before they get their share. The attitude seems to be "someone else is getting something and I'm not." As long as everybody has nothing, everything's fair.

I believe any large city with a concentration of gov't-supported poor would react the same way, given the same circumstances. I'm not defending the actions - they are apalling. This is my objective observation.


I'd be inclined to agree with you on that one. But what is different is in most countries the first reaction would not be to reach for a gun, certainly in the UK most of them would not have a gun. Nor I suspect would they start firing at rescue helicopters, it would happen but on a whole different level.

In most eec countries it is a given that one of the roles of government is to help people out of poverty not condemn them because they are poor. There's no easy answer but we have a very different culture and attituide to social reform, drawing parallels between the UK and US is of dubious help.



In 1949 the US State Department included the following definition in its' official classification of a 'Communist' :

"...anyone who belives that the government has a direct responsibility for the welfare of its' people."

[Source: 'A CHOMSKY READER' by Noam Chomsky, M.I.T.]


By that definition most of europe is communist.
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Brits Demand The Right To Defend Home Against Burglars

Post by Accountable »

Not sure if there is a solution, other than to be aware, just like one has to be aware of poisonous plants and dangerous animals in the wilderness.
gmc
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Brits Demand The Right To Defend Home Against Burglars

Post by gmc »

posted by accountable

Not sure if there is a solution, other than to be aware, just like one has to be aware of poisonous plants and dangerous animals in the wilderness.


There, is but you try one thing and then another and keep working away at it. what worked twenty years ago might not work today. We have gone about dealing with poverty in ways that work for us, we also need to re think our approach in light of the differences those policies have made and look to the future.

I think your politicians need to start thinking about what they can do for the country rather than what they can do for themselves and to score points off each other. Seems like politics has become the goal rather than the means to an end. On the other hand I am not amnerican so I do not claim to know what I am talking about, still have an opinion though:D

In the UK political debate has devolved in to spin and scoring points for the media and all the parties are distanced from the voters which is why the numbers voting have fallen. It's not lack of interest we're pissed off with the lot of them. Mediocrities masquerading as up standing human beings-still we voted them in to office:-5
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Post by Accountable »

gmc wrote: I think your politicians need to start thinking about what they can do for the country rather than what they can do for themselves and to score points off each other. Seems like politics has become the goal rather than the means to an end. On the other hand I am not amnerican so I do not claim to know what I am talking about, still have an opinion though:D


I'd say you're hitting the target pretty well ... for a ferner. :D



Politicians drive me crazy (I'd originally typed 'politicians make me nuts', but in your language that's an incomplete sentence, isn't it?). The most frustrating thing is that I can't think of a replacement for them :-5 .



We do it to ourselves. The only way a person can get elected is to make unrealistic promises. If one should tell the truth about how things ought to be, or what all these coddling programs cost, one would never make enough campaign donations to pay for coffee.



Worse, the only way to get re-elected is to show how you've improved things, and that means more gov't programs - whether they're needed or not (and they usually are not). And, of course, more programs mean more money means higher taxes. Need an idea for a new program? Plenty of lobbyists with access to very deep pockets are slithering around to give you ideas; not only ideas, they'll give big campaign donations as well. All it'll cost is your soul.



Since it's the soulless politicians what makes the rules, the rules allow that campaign donations that they don't spend they can keep for themselves, don't they! No conflict of interest there, of course. :mad: I don't know about in your area, gmc, but it's common for US politicians to enter Congress broke, earn something like $100,000 annually, and magically become millionaires in just a few years. I'll stop typing now and go find my blood pressure medicine.
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Brits Demand The Right To Defend Home Against Burglars

Post by wormwood »

I think your politicians need to start thinking about what they can do for the country rather than what they can do for themselves and to score points off each other. Seems like politics has become the goal rather than the means to an end. On the other hand I am not amnerican so I do not claim to know what I am talking about, still have an opinion though I would say that is a pretty fair assessment of our system.

In the UK political debate has devolved in to spin and scoring points for the media and all the parties are distanced from the voters which is why the numbers voting have fallen. It's not lack of interest we're pissed off with the lot of them. Mediocrities masquerading as up standing human beings-still we voted them in to office Same here, but at least they don't insult your intelligence as much. You get multiple parties and such, in the US they don't even try...every four years they say "pick one of these two a**holes" and we do it like it really matters. They are both just different heads of the same hydra. How did it come to this? Where are the Roosevelts or the Lincolns? Surely there are still great Americans, yet we see nothing but the same pathetic parade every few years.

To bring this back to guns and the violent American culture, I can only say that we are like the Romans were before us. There is a sort of societal infatuation with violence, only our television's are our coloseums. Our guns are of no consequence however...they allow poor people to kill each other, pose no real threat to our government or it's military, and allow gun manufacturers to get rich in the process. The only people that suffer are the citizens I suppose...

A side note, has anyone cross referenced bugalaries prevented by guns with accidental shootings caused by guns and compared the numbers?
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Post by Accountable »

Wormwood! Dude! I'm glad to meet ya. I agree with most of this post. It's nice to see someone else of similar thought. Except that I believe Roosevelt, Lincoln and their ilk were the start of all the big government that draws that type of politician.
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Post by gmc »

posted by accountable

Politicians drive me crazy (I'd originally typed 'politicians make me nuts', but in your language that's an incomplete sentence, isn't it?). The most frustrating thing is that I can't think of a replacement for them .


Cardboard cutouts might be a ggod alternative, at least we could throw darts at them. (I'd originally typed 'politicians make me nuts', but in your language that's an incomplete sentence, isn't it?).


If we start worrying if the other will understand the idiomatic phrases we both use posting will become rather stilted. I get the gist even with the strange spelling mistakes:sneaky:

posted by wormwood

Same here, but at least they don't insult your intelligence as much. You get multiple parties and such, in the US they don't even try...every four years they say "pick one of these two a**holes" and we do it like it really matters. They are both just different heads of the same hydra. How did it come to this? Where are the Roosevelts or the Lincolns? Surely there are still great Americans, yet we see nothing but the same pathetic parade every few years.


We do in theory but a combination of first past the post and gerrymandering effectively fix the results TB actually only has about a third of the votes, if they had any integrity he would take the hint and resign.
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Brits Demand The Right To Defend Home Against Burglars

Post by wormwood »

Accountable:

Wormwood! Dude! I'm glad to meet ya. I agree with most of this post. It's nice to see someone else of similar thought. Except that I believe Roosevelt, Lincoln and their ilk were the start of all the big government that draws that type of politician. Well thanks, glad to meet you too. When I brought up Roosevelt and Lincoln, I meant more on a personal level. For example, Lincoln was more or less just a regular guy that accomplished great things by looking out for the people. What ever incidental effects occured later as a result of their administration are up for debate. Now the people that are choosen are so far removed from the common man, that they have no idea what real people want or need. I am so sick of the fundamentalist "ken doll" haircut, W.A.S.P.s from the country club...just once I would like to see an actual person. Someone that admits to their flaws, does not make unrealistic promises, and actuall works on fixing domestic problems before trying to police the rest of the world.

gmc:

We do in theory but a combination of first past the post and gerrymandering effectively fix the results TB actually only has about a third of the votes, if they had any integrity he would take the hint and resign.
We have got you guys beat again! At least your election rigging was subtle and through somewhat democratic means...here Bush's brother just happens to be the governor of the highly controversial and deciding state, and his father just happened to be the ex-head of the C.I.A. .....C.I.A., what do they do again?....oh yeah, they fix foreign elections...and perhaps domestic ones too. No one finds this rather unusual string of coincidence at all odd, in fact if you bring it up, people accuse you of being a Bush basher, or unamerican. I have seen interveiws and debate from TB on UK media, at least in the UK the reporters keep up the pretense of being objective to the candidates.

I think the fact that the UK population doesn't want guns doesn't necessarily mean they are better or worse that the US, it just means the two are different. I think it speaks more about British trust for their government. In the US the opinion seems to be that the government would not be able to defend us, or might actually be the source of the attack on the citizens. We (as a population) want to be armed because it gives us a feeling of taking matters into our own hands, and being in control of our families safety. Also you must understand that in America the less legal something is, the more accesable it is. For example, I can not find food in this town after midnight, but I can find pot 24 hours a day. If we outlawed guns, then only the criminals would have them, but people WOULD still have them. Additionally it doesn't seem (and I don't know first hand) that the UK has the same kind of lunacy in it's crime. It is a shame that the same statutes designed to protect people also arms the criminals. I suppose the antagonism allows the violent lifestyle we subconsciously crave.

If I thought that it was possible to take guns from ALL Americans effectively, I would support this policy for the U.S. At this point I don't see the "War on Guns" being any more effective than "the war on drugs" or the "war on terror". All would be phenomenal wastes of resources and just end up hurting Americans more than they help. Thanks for the thoughts guys.
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Post by Accountable »

wormwood wrote: If I thought that it was possible to take guns from ALL Americans effectively, I would support this policy for the U.S. At this point I don't see the "War on Guns" being any more effective than "the war on drugs" or the "war on terror". All would be phenomenal wastes of resources and just end up hurting Americans more than they help. Thanks for the thoughts guys.
Uh uh. Sorry, I can't agree with taking away guns, not at all. Sooner or later we're going to have our own crazy King George. These last couple of Presidents George have alot of people uneasy about our gov't :p .



If we did not have an armed public, it would be too easy to crush resistance. As it is, we're far too complacent as the gov't runs roughshod over our God-given rights. I don't own a gun but I can use one and use it well (qualified M-16 marksman). Admittedly, it would take a major life-changing, foundation-shaking event to convince me to use my skills against my military, but if the event happens, I want to be able to act.
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Post by wormwood »

Uh uh. Sorry, I can't agree with taking away guns, not at all. Sooner or later we're going to have our own crazy King George. These last couple of Presidents George have alot of people uneasy about our gov't .


Well considering the types of guns that are legal to own, we really wouldn't put up much resistance against the military anyway. Hunting rifles are no match for tomahawk missles. I don't own a gun either, but it would be reassuring to know that the crips down the street also don't have guns. There would be a lot less bold violent crime in this country...take away the gun take away the courage. Also if they took guns from the people, that would mean that the cops wouldn't have guns either. That means the military would be the only ones with guns and they can not occupy every American city at the same time. If and when your rights are taken, it will be done in such a way that most people will agree with it, the guns I think, will be irrelevant, but you did reinforce my point about American's trust for the government :)
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Post by Accountable »

That's right. G-Damn redtape spiders weaving webs all over the place. :mad:



I miss Micah. I wish he hadn't gotten himself banned. He always waded into gun fights, words a'blazing! I almost never agreed with him, but I loved his passion. MicahLorain, I think his name was. Do a search; it's interesting reading, mostly.

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