The Obstacle of an Armed Citizenry

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Tombstone
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The Obstacle of an Armed Citizenry

Post by Tombstone »

I was reading an American Rifleman Magazine last night.

I thought this was an important tidbit. (August 2002 Issue.)



"It seems that in 1960, 15 years after the end of World War II, Robert Menard,

then a commander aboard the USS Constellation, took part in a meeting between U.S. Navy personnel and members of the Japanese Defense Forces. Most of the attendees at the meeting were World War II veterans.

One American took the opportunity to inquire why, after Pearl Harbor -- with the U.S. Pacific Fleet crippled and the mainland defenses in what must have been obvious disarray -- the Japanese had not simply invaded the U.S. West Coast.

Menard recalled the response of the Japanese commander: "You are right," he conceded. "We did indeed know much about your preparedness. We knew that probably every second home in your country contained firearms. We knew that your country actually had state championships for private citizens shooting military

rifles. We were not fools to set foot in such quicksand."
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Bill Sikes
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The Obstacle of an Armed Citizenry

Post by Bill Sikes »

Tombstone wrote: I was reading an American Rifleman Magazine last night.

I thought this was an important tidbit. (August 2002 Issue.)


You read back issues of that sort of publication? Wow.



Tombstone wrote: (why after Pearl Harbor) -- with the U.S. Pacific Fleet crippled and the mainland defenses in what must have been obvious disarray -- the Japanese had not simply invaded the U.S. West Coast.

Menard recalled the response of the Japanese commander: "You are right," he conceded. "We did indeed know much about your preparedness. We knew that probably every second home in your country contained firearms. We knew that your country actually had state championships for private citizens shooting military

rifles. We were not fools to set foot in such quicksand."


This sounds like a UL to me - invading armies aren't normally dissuaded by

being shot at.
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Tombstone
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The Obstacle of an Armed Citizenry

Post by Tombstone »

Bill Sikes wrote: You read back issues of that sort of publication? Wow.




Have you ever picked up and read this magazine? It's a great read. Lots of historical stories, heritage pieces, guns, reviews, legislation alerts, competitions, classes, etc. I'm looking at purchasing an M1A or Mini-14. They had several reviews of this rifle in either this edition - or the month before or after. (I don't have the magazines with me now - so I can't check.)





This sounds like a UL to me - invading armies aren't normally dissuaded by

being shot at.


Maybe on the story. But the Russian back-off was documented recently - The reason: Well armed Americans.

Look what a relatively small number of Afghanis did to the vaunted Russian Army during the 1980's.

I've said this before, I wouldn't want to go up against 95% of the men and women who own rifles and live in the ~46 pro-gun states. Many have a military background, most are peace-loving patriots, and a large majority can outshoot the vast majority of your normal conscripts.
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Xxena
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The Obstacle of an Armed Citizenry

Post by Xxena »

The NRA tends to **** me off to no end most of the time, BUT, their publications have some excellent articles and good info most of the time. And like or not the comment from that Japanese man echos of it are heard all the time from career criminals in prisons across the USA when asked how they choose people to victimize.. Most cite time and time again that if they know someone or a household is armed they avoid it and go onto the next victim. Obviously the taking heads of Kennesaw GA knew what they were doing when they passed their armed household law.. and the fact that to this day they have lowest crime in the nation.


The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya):lips:
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Tombstone
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Post by Tombstone »

Xxena wrote: The NRA tends to **** me off to no end most of the time, BUT, their publications have some excellent articles and good info most of the time. And like or not the comment from that Japanese man echos of it are heard all the time from career criminals in prisons across the USA when asked how they choose people to victimize.. Most cite time and time again that if they know someone or a household is armed they avoid it and go onto the next victim. Obviously the taking heads of Kennesaw GA knew what they were doing when they passed their armed household law.. and the fact that to this day they have lowest crime in the nation.


Yes, this interesting anecdote has consistently given the same results: A more polite and safer society. (Much to the chagrin of the gun grabbing lobby.) ;)
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Yaaaaaaaaaay



Freedom!






MicahLorain
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The Obstacle of an Armed Citizenry

Post by MicahLorain »

In my neighborhood everyone is armed too. With unregistered weapons that are used to kill people and wound or threaten whatever businesses are left. 74 homicides this year alone in my town. 90% in the urban core. Armed suburbanites and rural residents have nothing to fear. Of course there is low crime. How do we handle the surging street violence involving guns in low income minority areas? One single example: 16 year old boy leaving the Lil Bow Wow concert. He waves at a passing car and is shot in the head. His mother shot in the shoulder and his 14 year old cousin is killed when the car crashes. 16 year old has part of his brain removed. In a coma and unlikely to recover. Assailants found and in possession of stolen gun. Yaaaay!! FREEDOM!
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Post by Xxena »

Our business is located in what is now called the Bario of Chicago... its obviously a low income Hispanic area but its also the most violent and well known gang territory as well - our business/our employees are the ONLY white people for MILES around !! Its nothing to have the crack whores lined up outside our parking lot gate at 6AM trying to get a trick off an employee for a quick fix.. my husband has been sweeping up the discarded hypo needles and crack viles for months now and depositing them in a huge glass container to send to our dear Mayor Daley to let him know just how well his "war on drugs and gangs" is going in the "real inner city" and what a great job Chicago's finest do in that area (NOT)... gun fire .. its a daily ritual down by our business as are the gang bangers on the corner openly armed to the teeth and trying to sell everything from guns to drugs , stolen property, pittbull pups, and the list goes on and on.

The East side of our building is riddled with bullet holes from the daily and weekly shoot outs... luckily its 3 ply brick before the 2 layeres of old walls from previous owners and then the new plywood and walls we've put on top of those..

Couple weeks back one of the workers came to tell my husband about the cool

shootout going on out back.. husband goes out there to see what the hell is going on and 4 of our guys are sitting on the benches out there for them for breaks and lunch in nice weather watching 2 gangs shoot it out across the street from our lot... LITERALLY shoot it out... noon, broad daylight, cars going by on the main street which is main road from the Lake front thorugh all of Chicago and out to the suburbs... cars, city buses, delivery trucks, city cops all driving by within yards of this shoot out going on between the members of these 2 gangs... No one calls the cops.. dosen't matter they don't show up anyway... people are walking around the area so they don't get hit by stray bullets.. and my moronic

employees are watching this like its TV or something... Nerds !

What does one do ... who the hell knows.. all the talk about the WAR on Drugs,

The War on Gangs, The WAr on Crime etc etc is nothing more than feel good babble on the part of politicans to get elected. Try and DO anything and you have the ACLU and every other radical group down your throat for "discrimination".. so you tell us. We alll know its NOT the guns and its not the law abiding owners... but no one wants to put the abusers into jail and throw away the keys in fear of being labled racists..

So what do we do ???? Personally I'd let them shoot each other until they were all gone and then the problem would be solved :mad:

Unfortunately there is the problem of innocent people in the middle, the working poor... and they are always caught in the middle and its not fair to them and I do agree. But if no one listens to us the citizens and really does something other than a lot of TALK to shut people up and then move on to the next election campaign, what do the law abiding do without being labled vigilantes ?


The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya):lips:
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Tombstone
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Post by Tombstone »

:( Maybe someday you can get out of there.
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MicahLorain
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Post by MicahLorain »

Far Rider wrote: Draw a conclusion, not off a single example please. State something please, your use of sarcasm is confusing if it is sarcasm?

Of the 74 homicides how many involve the use of guns?, then again how many invlove the use of unregistered guns? Or guns not used by their owners? Were any of the homicides a criminal in the act of criminal activity?

Lets see the numbers. It would be helpful to list the county for us.

Now this time im not purposefully trying to aggrivate you, I'm willing to listen to your points. Just make one.
Jackson County, Missouri. Though the city encompasses two other counties, the gun violence is centered in Jackson. All the deaths but a few are due to guns. Guns rock unless you live among the poorest. Reagan's trickle down theory works re: weapons end up being sold, stolen, etc. They end up in the urban areas. You don't see this in Japan, Western Europe, Canada or Australia. It's just a point I was making. So far it is still legal to oppose the gun industry.
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Post by MicahLorain »

Far Rider wrote: Perfectly legal to do so, well within your rights and I respect your opinion.
I have little experience on the computer and am unable to do searches. If you were interested I would love some crime stats about KCMO/Jackson County. We haven't had a homicide rate this high since the 'Crack Wars' of '90-'93. It's my point against guns. And I respect your opinion too, unless you disagree with me.:sneaky:
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Post by Xxena »

Tombstone wrote: :( Maybe someday you can get out of there.


SOON... sooner than most realize. Our plans are in the works - its early retirement if we can pull it off within the next 12 - 18 months. And like my oldest daugther, once we're out of this state, there's no coming back. She comes back to visit us, but we leave we're moving north of her in MN.

Geez its 10PM already.. I still have to clean up the kitchen from dinner. Catch you all later.


The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya):lips:
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Xxena
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Post by Xxena »

MicahLorain wrote: Jackson County, Missouri. Though the city encompasses two other counties, the gun violence is centered in Jackson. All the deaths but a few are due to guns. Guns rock unless you live among the poorest. Reagan's trickle down theory works re: weapons end up being sold, stolen, etc. They end up in the urban areas. You don't see this in Japan, Western Europe, Canada or Australia. It's just a point I was making. So far it is still legal to oppose the gun industry.


If you bother to check the crime stats for the countries you just listed you will find that after their disarmament of the law abiding gun owning citizens the crime rates for England, Japan, Australia and most of the other countries have soared beyond anything they ever envisoned. Japan is experiencing it the worst as is the Liverpool area of England. I have friends in all these countries and get copies of local news articles that the mainstream media will not publish in their

antigun agenda and phobia. The problem with disarmament of the law abiding is a: obviously THEY are not the problem and breaking the law, b: it renders them and others unable to defend themselves against the real criminals and crime and deaths go up NOT down and c: the laws are written to go after the law abiding gun owners since they are the only ones the politicans and law enforcement can readily find there is no way to figure out all the crimanls with the illegal stuff which is what you want off the streets to begin with.

Its what's commonly known as an OXYMORON !!! Gun control equates to nothing more than population control of the law abiding, it never touches the criminals and on the rare occassions it does, the numbers disarmed are so dismal its not worth talking about.


The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya):lips:
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Post by MicahLorain »

Xxena wrote: If you bother to check the crime stats for the countries you just listed you will find that after their disarmament of the law abiding gun owning citizens the crime rates for England, Japan, Australia and most of the other countries have soared beyond anything they ever envisoned. Japan is experiencing it the worst as is the Liverpool area of England. I have friends in all these countries and get copies of local news articles that the mainstream media will not publish in their

antigun agenda and phobia. The problem with disarmament of the law abiding is a: obviously THEY are not the problem and breaking the law, b: it renders them and others unable to defend themselves against the real criminals and crime and deaths go up NOT down and c: the laws are written to go after the law abiding gun owners since they are the only ones the politicans and law enforcement can readily find there is no way to figure out all the crimanls with the illegal stuff which is what you want off the streets to begin with.

Its what's commonly known as an OXYMORON !!! Gun control equates to nothing more than population control of the law abiding, it never touches the criminals and on the rare occassions it does, the numbers disarmed are so dismal its not worth talking about.
I do understand your points but none of the countries I mentioned have violent crime rates anywhere near that of the US. Even allowing for per capita figuring, our armed nation is very bloody. On the other hand Cuba has a very armed population, perhaps explaining why they haven't been invaded. The guns law abiding citizens buy end up in the wrong hands. The more guns manufactured the more that trickle down to the 'hood. Guns don't materialize out of thin air. Like I said people sell them, have them stolen, etc. Law abiding citizen gun purchases are the arms dealers of our urban core.
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Post by Xxena »

MicahLorain wrote: I do understand your points but none of the countries I mentioned have violent crime rates anywhere near that of the US. Even allowing for per capita figuring, our armed nation is very bloody. On the other hand Cuba has a very armed population, perhaps explaining why they haven't been invaded. The guns law abiding citizens buy end up in the wrong hands. The more guns manufactured the more that trickle down to the 'hood. Guns don't materialize out of thin air. Like I said people sell them, have them stolen, etc. Law abiding citizen gun purchases are the arms dealers of our urban core.


I thought you said earlier you had no idea about the statistics of any of this and didn't know how to use a computer to do research , if that's the case then how would you know about the per capita crime stats of any country in comparison to to the US and vice versa, or are you reading it from the nifty little HCI easy fact sheet;)

We own guns, many and have had them for in excess of 30 years.. mine are not missing, unaccounted for or in the hands of children or criminals and I can think of at least 100 plus people I know well as active owners and shooters who can account for everyone of their firearms and they in turn can probably list a long group of other shooters they know that have no problems with missing arms and that can be multiplied over and over.... get the drift ?

Would you like me to provide YOU with some articles and facts and stats to disprove everything the hoplophobes have given you ? Unfortunatly most research is posted at least 2 years after its done and you will not find more than from 2000 - 2002 at the most at this point. I just checked on the gun injury/deaths that is done by the National SAfety Council each year and their 2003 stats are out to date and firearms are STILL at the bottom of the list after 8 other ways kids and people are killed or die as the most common means and guess what my friend, the #1 killer of all is still that user friendly motor vehicle ! More kids die each year in the USA from poison and drowning than they from firearms. The death rates climbs in the teens to early 20's for firearms but upon further research you will find that is due to those involved in gangs and illegal activities then at the late 20's that number for firearms drops dramatically once again.

If you want to use the tried old clicque of guns are the root of all evil and kill. the argument can be made for everyday things that are easy to get and not illegal that account for MORE injury and deaths across the USA as noted in the Major Cities Police Department Statistics, the National Safety Council, The CDC the US Justice Department and the list goes on and on of the groups that gather and disseminate this information and not one of them cites firearms as the #! on any list... just the opposite, most have them somewhere between the middle to the ends of their lists.

As for your claim that none of the countries you cite have violent crime rates as high as the usa that does not hold water either... Violent crime is ALL Encompassing, and not just limited to crimes with firearms. In the overall statistics, firearms are the lesser of evils, more people are attacked and injured or killed with knives, human hands and things like bats or golf clubs during violent crime than with firearms and that is seen across all countries.

The worldwide statistics that are gathered and reported by groups that are NOT leaning one way or another with a view on firearms but do their work as strictly

a reporting agency show that the countries with the most restrictive firearms laws have higher crime, higher violent crime and higher gun crime at the hands of criminals, which is once again flaming obvious since the good guys are UNarmed and the bad guys are.

Want to keep the guns out of the hands of criminals, then tell all the bleeding heart liberals to quit wet nursing them and punish them for their crimes and make them pay back their debt to the society they have been preying upon, instead of making them out to be the victims and criminalizing the real victims. Ever notice the brazen attitude of most criminals in this country... wonder why ?... its simple the shift has been towards such lenient sentencing for even the most heinous crimes the criminals have NO fear of being caught much less really and truly being punished. In their case, CRIME DOES PAY. Don't blame it on a tool that is useless without an human hand to work it.. blame it on the people that have the power to right the wrongs these criminals commit, the lawyers and the judges. If you were to hold THEM accountable for releasing criminals back into society that continue a life of crime and preying on innocent victims - you would see them take a much harder stance on crime and punishment, but they are immune to any liability at all in what they do and its outcome on the rest of society. THERE lies the key to solving the problem.


The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya):lips:
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Post by Xxena »

Ah.. Cuba has not been invaded for the obvious.. there's nothing there to gain by invasion... other than Rum and coconuts ! The country has been bankrupted, destroyed and thrown into countrywide poverty by its "Benevolent Dictator"... like any country those with $$$ an Power enjoy the fruits of anything to be had while the working people suffer at their hands and their greed and arrogance. Come on you cannot be that naieve ... its has nothing to do with firearms or their ownership... Cuba has been systematically destroyed by Castro and the fact that there is NO country where Socialism and Communism have been strictly enforced that has ever survived or prospered on it. In theory and books by their great creators such as Marx and Stalin it might sound like the great Utopia, but in reality its sucks for everyone but the elitest few at the very top... and that is what Cuba

has become and IS... that is why people fight to leave there for anywhere and no one wants to go there ...

side note.. a lot of the illegal gun runners are known to work via Cuba/Casto and the corrupt officials there so that blows your theory on that one .. sorry :rolleyes:

Love to stay and debate this with you all night, but tomorrow is a work day and 6AM comes early when its already almost midnight here... so to quote snagglepuss... exit stage left and to bed ! Adios Amigos, manyana !


The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya):lips:
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Xxena
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Post by Xxena »

For later discussion:



Jackson County Missouri

Agriculture

Field crops

Population, immigration, and demographics

2000 Social characteristics (PDF) includes disability data

1990 Census, Summary Tape File 1A Information based on a limited number of basic population and housing questions collected from both the short form and the long form for every inhabitant and housing unit in the United States.

1990 Census, Summary Tape File 3A Population, housing, and socioeconomic information collected from the census long form for a one in six sample of households in the United States.

2000 Housing characteristics (PDF)

2000 Economic characteristics (PDF)

2000 General demographic profile

Business

County Business Patterns

Minority- and women-owned business

Personal income

Economic Census, 1997

Consolidated Federal Funds Report

Crime

Crimes reported to police

Energy and Environment

Environmental Protection Agency regulated facilities

[ Back to Jackson County Missouri ]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Crimes reported in Jackson County Missouri

Crime 2000

[ Arrests ] [ Crimes reported ] [ Back to Jackson County, Missouri ]

Statistics presented are based on data collected by the FBI as part of its Uniform Crime Reporting Program. These data represent offenses reported to and arrests made by State and local law enforcement agencies as reported to the FBI. These data do not include Federal law enforcement activity. Additionally, not all law enforcement agencies consistently report offense and arrest data to the FBI. Users should refer to the Coverage Indicator for the proportion of the population covered by the agencies reporting to the FBI.

[ Caution ] [ Coverage ] [ Definitions of crimes ]

Crime Number (Estimate)

Total 49,708

Murder 88

Rape 297

Robbery 1,927

Aggravated Assault 3,933

Burglary 7,638

Larceny - theft 28,838

Motor vehicle thefts 6,560

Population 649,363

Coverage indicator 97%



Data provided by the Federal Bureau of Investigation to the National Archive of Criminal Justice Data, University of Michigan

Population statistics are based on data provided by the FBI and may differ from similar statistics reported by the Census Bureau. Population statistics generated by the FBI are used to calculate crime rates and to estimate the proportion of the population covered by the UCR program.

Additional Information on Crime in US Localities









--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Fedstats - www.fedstats.gov/


The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya):lips:
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Xxena
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Post by Xxena »

Do you live in Jackson MO (as in City of Jackson) nothing recognizes Jackson County as a City, only as a county.. here's Jackson MO

Jackson Missouri Crime Statistics and Data Resources

Web Search:

Jackson MO Crime Statistics (2002 - New Crime Data) Crime Type 2002 Total Per 100,000 People National per 100,000 People

Overall Jackson Crime Index 303 2501.65 4118.8

Jackson Murders 0 0 5.6

Jackson Forcible Rapes 1 8.26 33.0

Jackson Robberies 5 41.28 145.9

Jackson Aggravated Assaults 17 140.36 310.1

Jackson Burglaries 41 338.51 746.2

Jackson Larceny/Thefts 226 1865.92 2445.8

Jackson Motor Vehicle Thefts 13 107.33 432.1

Jackson Arsons 1 8.26 N/A



Based on 2002 Federal Bureau of Investigation Crime Reports.

Population data used for crime calculations is based on the Jackson crime collection area and may not match US Census data.





If you want to reserach anything you must be specific, especially when it comes to locations !


The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya):lips:
MicahLorain
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Post by MicahLorain »

Xxena wrote: I thought you said earlier you had no idea about the statistics of any of this and didn't know how to use a computer to do research , if that's the case then how would you know about the per capita crime stats of any country in comparison to to the US and vice versa, or are you reading it from the nifty little HCI easy fact sheet;)

We own guns, many and have had them for in excess of 30 years.. mine are not missing, unaccounted for or in the hands of children or criminals and I can think of at least 100 plus people I know well as active owners and shooters who can account for everyone of their firearms and they in turn can probably list a long group of other shooters they know that have no problems with missing arms and that can be multiplied over and over.... get the drift ?

Would you like me to provide YOU with some articles and facts and stats to disprove everything the hoplophobes have given you ? Unfortunatly most research is posted at least 2 years after its done and you will not find more than from 2000 - 2002 at the most at this point. I just checked on the gun injury/deaths that is done by the National SAfety Council each year and their 2003 stats are out to date and firearms are STILL at the bottom of the list after 8 other ways kids and people are killed or die as the most common means and guess what my friend, the #1 killer of all is still that user friendly motor vehicle ! More kids die each year in the USA from poison and drowning than they from firearms. The death rates climbs in the teens to early 20's for firearms but upon further research you will find that is due to those involved in gangs and illegal activities then at the late 20's that number for firearms drops dramatically once again.

If you want to use the tried old clicque of guns are the root of all evil and kill. the argument can be made for everyday things that are easy to get and not illegal that account for MORE injury and deaths across the USA as noted in the Major Cities Police Department Statistics, the National Safety Council, The CDC the US Justice Department and the list goes on and on of the groups that gather and disseminate this information and not one of them cites firearms as the #! on any list... just the opposite, most have them somewhere between the middle to the ends of their lists.

As for your claim that none of the countries you cite have violent crime rates as high as the usa that does not hold water either... Violent crime is ALL Encompassing, and not just limited to crimes with firearms. In the overall statistics, firearms are the lesser of evils, more people are attacked and injured or killed with knives, human hands and things like bats or golf clubs during violent crime than with firearms and that is seen across all countries.

The worldwide statistics that are gathered and reported by groups that are NOT leaning one way or another with a view on firearms but do their work as strictly

a reporting agency show that the countries with the most restrictive firearms laws have higher crime, higher violent crime and higher gun crime at the hands of criminals, which is once again flaming obvious since the good guys are UNarmed and the bad guys are.

Want to keep the guns out of the hands of criminals, then tell all the bleeding heart liberals to quit wet nursing them and punish them for their crimes and make them pay back their debt to the society they have been preying upon, instead of making them out to be the victims and criminalizing the real victims. Ever notice the brazen attitude of most criminals in this country... wonder why ?... its simple the shift has been towards such lenient sentencing for even the most heinous crimes the criminals have NO fear of being caught much less really and truly being punished. In their case, CRIME DOES PAY. Don't blame it on a tool that is useless without an human hand to work it.. blame it on the people that have the power to right the wrongs these criminals commit, the lawyers and the judges. If you were to hold THEM accountable for releasing criminals back into society that continue a life of crime and preying on innocent victims - you would see them take a much harder stance on crime and punishment, but they are immune to any liability at all in what they do and its outcome on the rest of society. THERE lies the key to solving the problem.
I read. I have articles, links and plenty of smarts. Though not the smartest, I do my homework. Not knowing how to post and do searches does not mean I'm a jackass. Jackson County is in Missouri. Kansas City is the city inside it. Guns kill people. Rednecks that buy and sell them should be held accountable. Congrats on your gun ownership. I choose not to have one and will continue to express my opinion.
MicahLorain
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The Obstacle of an Armed Citizenry

Post by MicahLorain »

Xxena wrote: Ah.. Cuba has not been invaded for the obvious.. there's nothing there to gain by invasion... other than Rum and coconuts ! The country has been bankrupted, destroyed and thrown into countrywide poverty by its "Benevolent Dictator"... like any country those with $$$ an Power enjoy the fruits of anything to be had while the working people suffer at their hands and their greed and arrogance. Come on you cannot be that naieve ... its has nothing to do with firearms or their ownership... Cuba has been systematically destroyed by Castro and the fact that there is NO country where Socialism and Communism have been strictly enforced that has ever survived or prospered on it. In theory and books by their great creators such as Marx and Stalin it might sound like the great Utopia, but in reality its sucks for everyone but the elitest few at the very top... and that is what Cuba

has become and IS... that is why people fight to leave there for anywhere and no one wants to go there ...

side note.. a lot of the illegal gun runners are known to work via Cuba/Casto and the corrupt officials there so that blows your theory on that one .. sorry :rolleyes:

Love to stay and debate this with you all night, but tomorrow is a work day and 6AM comes early when its already almost midnight here... so to quote snagglepuss... exit stage left and to bed ! Adios Amigos, manyana !
What did Grenada have Xena the Almighty?? Or Vietnam to warrant US interest? Or Lebanon? Or Haiti or Colombia where the US finances death squads? Long live the Cuban gun runners. The US couldn't handle Cuba. They can't even secure Baghdad or Kabul! They got their arses kicked in Vietnam AND Somalia. Go lube your guns Xena the Almighty. Pick on a faster typer!
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Post by Accountable »

MicahLorain wrote: I read. I have articles, links and plenty of smarts. Though not the smartest, I do my homework. Not knowing how to post and do searches does not mean I'm a jackass. Jackson County is in Missouri. Kansas City is the city inside it. Guns kill people. Rednecks that buy and sell them should be held accountable. Congrats on your gun ownership. I choose not to have one and will continue to express my opinion.
Micah, I luv ya like a stranger - okay a little more than that - but I could not disagree more about guns. I was stationed in Japan. the culture is just general more passive. There were virtually no guns, but when a crazy guy got a bug up his butt he didn't just say "gee, if I only had a gun." No, he grabbed the biggest godawful kitchen knife I ever laid eyes on and hijacked a bus. True (I see you inhaling getting ready to respond) if he had a gun, he probably could have been more "effective," but crazy's crazy and gangs are gonna try to kill each other.
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Post by MicahLorain »

Accountable wrote: Micah, I luv ya like a stranger - okay a little more than that - but I could not disagree more about guns. I was stationed in Japan. the culture is just general more passive. There were virtually no guns, but when a crazy guy got a bug up his butt he didn't just say "gee, if I only had a gun." No, he grabbed the biggest godawful kitchen knife I ever laid eyes on and hijacked a bus. True (I see you inhaling getting ready to respond) if he had a gun, he probably could have been more "effective," but crazy's crazy and gangs are gonna try to kill each other.
I see your point. But so far there haven't been 31 drive by knifings in KC this year. A child playing with a knife likely won't kill himself or his playmate. There are Millions more knives than guns yet handguns kill more people than any other weapon. If you lived in a violent urban area you would see the impact gun violence has on everyone in the area, not just the thugs. You'd think I'd have a gun living in a bad area, but I don't. Millions of them are manufactured annually and they have a very long shelf life. Our gun culture is the bloodiest on earth for a developed nation. How can we keep it fed with our blood and money? I do not want to appear a flamer here so I'll exit the gun lover only thread. Just remember gun buyers; Aim at the criminals, not at people that don't suck up to the rightwing gun lobby.
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Post by Accountable »

MicahLorain wrote: I see your point. But so far there haven't been 31 drive by knifings in KC this year. A child playing with a knife likely won't kill himself or his playmate. There are Millions more knives than guns yet handguns kill more people than any other weapon. If you lived in a violent urban area you would see the impact gun violence has on everyone in the area, not just the thugs. You'd think I'd have a gun living in a bad area, but I don't. Millions of them are manufactured annually and they have a very long shelf life. Our gun culture is the bloodiest on earth for a developed nation. How can we keep it fed with our blood and money? I do not want to appear a flamer here so I'll exit the gun lover only thread. Just remember gun buyers; Aim at the criminals, not at people that don't suck up to the rightwing gun lobby.
Good points and don't go. Do you have a strategy for getting the guns away from the criminals if you were king?
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Post by MicahLorain »

Accountable wrote: Good points and don't go. Do you have a strategy for getting the guns away from the criminals if you were king?
If I were king the need to kill for money or a car would be erased as my socialization of the nation would significantly diminish poverty. Gun sales would be stopped and manufacture ceased as we already have enough guns to last 1000 years or more. $5000 per gun buybacks would be my final polite solution. Anyone caught with a gun after all these generous steps would be imprisoned for a minimum of 15 years in general lockup at a federal (or royal) facility. All seized guns would be sent to FARC in Colombia, The CP of Nepal, Venezuela and the Irian Jaya movement to secede from Indonesia and assimilate into Papua New Guinea. I would also declare my birthday as a national holiday; August 13th. (Fidel's B-Day too!)
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Post by Xxena »

MicahLorain wrote: What did Grenada have Xena the Almighty?? Or Vietnam to warrant US interest? Or Lebanon? Or Haiti or Colombia where the US finances death squads? Long live the Cuban gun runners. The US couldn't handle Cuba. They can't even secure Baghdad or Kabul! They got their arses kicked in Vietnam AND Somalia. Go lube your guns Xena the Almighty. Pick on a faster typer!


Oh we have a live one here boys and girls .. a real true racist hoplophobe who if stuck in the middle of a war would run screaming and whinning like the biggest school yard sissy one ever saw. Poor me, Poor me.... a classic member of the mushroom masses.

As for your questions regarding political conquest please direct them to DC...the rest of us have no control over that anymore than you do.

Like to stay and play but I have work to do.. proposals to be ready for a meeting tommorrow with some of the Distributors and times a wasting here with you that's for darn sure.

A:-6 Aren't you late for a Greenie or ACLU meeting or something Micah ?


The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya):lips:
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Post by BabyRider »

MicahLorain wrote: If I were king the need to kill for money or a car would be erased as my socialization of the nation would significantly diminish poverty. Gun sales would be stopped and manufacture ceased as we already have enough guns to last 1000 years or more. $5000 per gun buybacks would be my final polite solution. Anyone caught with a gun after all these generous steps would be imprisoned for a minimum of 15 years in general lockup at a federal (or royal) facility. All seized guns would be sent to FARC in Colombia, The CP of Nepal, Venezuela and the Irian Jaya movement to secede from Indonesia and assimilate into Papua New Guinea. I would also declare my birthday as a national holiday; August 13th. (Fidel's B-Day too!)
Wow...Nirvana and Disneyland all rolled into one!!

I love your phrase: "the NEED to kill for money or a car..." because that's what criminals are about, right? Need? Nuh-uh.

You know what else I find funny? The phrase, "We have enough guns to last us 1000 years..." Why do I find that funny, you might ask? Because I only have 2 hands. 2 hands means I can only shoot 2 guns at once. Why would I want more? Because I can. I currently own 7 guns, and we are collecting more. Why? Because we can. It's my right, thank the founding fathers, to own guns. And $5,000 a piece doesn't scratch the surface. I'd scoff at your 5 grand. It's an insult to gun owners everywhere. You think it's about money?? Pshaw. It's about my rights. And my rights are worth a sight more to me than some friggin' money.
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Post by BabyRider »

Xxena wrote: Aren't you late for a Greenie or ACLU meeting or something Micah ?
Oh hell yes. You and I will get along just wonderfully!!! :yh_bigsmi

And for Micah, in response to:

"Guns kill more people than knives"

Here ya go:





Doctors:

(A) The number of doctors in the U.S. is 700,000

(B) Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year are 120,000

(C) Accidental deaths per physician is 17.14% Statistics courtesy ofthe

U.S.Dept of Health & Human Services



Guns:

(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is

80,000,000 (yes that's 80 million)

(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500

(C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is

0.001875% Statistics courtesy of the FBI



So statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous

than gun owners.

Time to start banning health care. :yh_eyebro

[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
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Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


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Post by MicahLorain »

Xxena wrote: Oh we have a live one here boys and girls .. a real true racist hoplophobe who if stuck in the middle of a war would run screaming and whinning like the biggest school yard sissy one ever saw. Poor me, Poor me.... a classic member of the mushroom masses.

As for your questions regarding political conquest please direct them to DC...the rest of us have no control over that anymore than you do.

Like to stay and play but I have work to do.. proposals to be ready for a meeting tommorrow with some of the Distributors and times a wasting here with you that's for darn sure.

A:-6 Aren't you late for a Greenie or ACLU meeting or something Micah ?
I AM late for a Crossdressers United fund raiser! Gotta grab my M-16 and my black stlilletos and run!!
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Post by MicahLorain »

BabyRider wrote: Wow...Nirvana and Disneyland all rolled into one!!

I love your phrase: "the NEED to kill for money or a car..." because that's what criminals are about, right? Need? Nuh-uh.

You know what else I find funny? The phrase, "We have enough guns to last us 1000 years..." Why do I find that funny, you might ask? Because I only have 2 hands. 2 hands means I can only shoot 2 guns at once. Why would I want more? Because I can. I currently own 7 guns, and we are collecting more. Why? Because we can. It's my right, thank the founding fathers, to own guns. And $5,000 a piece doesn't scratch the surface. I'd scoff at your 5 grand. It's an insult to gun owners everywhere. You think it's about money?? Pshaw. It's about my rights. And my rights are worth a sight more to me than some friggin' money.
It aint about your hands BR!! Millions of guns are manufactured every year! To fit millions of hands! What are you gun nuts so TERRIFIED of?? I live in a ghetto with violent crime all around me and I don't have a gun. You'd be so scared you'd whine until a cop or a beefy drag queen whisked you back to biker country, where there are loads of guns but nuthin to shoot at!! Who be the pansy here BR??
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Post by BabyRider »

MicahLorain wrote: It aint about your hands BR!! Millions of guns are manufactured every year! To fit millions of hands! What are you gun nuts so TERRIFIED of?? I live in a ghetto with violent crime all around me and I don't have a gun. You'd be so scared you'd whine until a cop or a beefy drag queen whisked you back to biker country, where there are loads of guns but nuthin to shoot at!! Who be the pansy here BR??
Oh goody...here we go again.

You think you're the first twit to come along and call me a "gun nut" simply because I own and know how to use guns?? Please. All you "gun pansies" can take your blanket judgements and stereotypical moronic attitudes and cram 'em where the sun don't shine.

Not that you care, because you seem to think you know SO much about me, but I happen to be a responsible, LAW-ABIDING, gun owner.

I'd be scared? What the F do you know about what I'm scared of? The area I live in is FILLED with crack dealers, gang bangers, muggers, theives and the general dregs of society. The clubhouse the M/C belongs to is in the deepest darkest Africa of a ghetto. Fear that? Sh!t...they fear US. Don't EVER claim to know about MY lifestyle, cause you can't begin to imagine it.

"Biker country where there's nothin' to shoot at"??? HA!! Shows what you know. It's apparent, now, that you don't know jack. When you jump to wild conclusions about a person, it's my reccommendation that you have even an INKLING of what that person lives every day. Until then, keep your erroneous assumptions to yourself.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
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Post by Xxena »

BabyRider wrote: Oh hell yes. You and I will get along just wonderfully!!! :yh_bigsmi

And for Micah, in response to:

"Guns kill more people than knives"

Here ya go:





Doctors:

(A) The number of doctors in the U.S. is 700,000

(B) Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year are 120,000

(C) Accidental deaths per physician is 17.14% Statistics courtesy ofthe

U.S.Dept of Health & Human Services



Guns:

(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is

80,000,000 (yes that's 80 million)

(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500

(C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is

0.001875% Statistics courtesy of the FBI



So statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous

than gun owners.

Time to start banning health care. :yh_eyebro




Break time...

oh geez... now we're playing the guns kill more than knives or whatever..

Rider.. SAVE your time and energy on this one - I've played their games for more years than I care to count and they are so deeply embedded in their delusional paranoia they'll never find their way back to Kansas...or, in this case Missouri. All you have to do is go back and re-read all the posts this individual has made and you see the flaming contradictions immediately... If I wasn't so backed up in work

I'd have some real fun with this one but unfortunately NO time.. its a working

weekend if I want to make hunting season this year with husband ;) Let 'da Micha" live in his/her land of delusions it will eat them eventually. As for all the antiAmerican comments... I often wonder why these people who bash this country so badly stay here... If Utopia is Cuba and North Korea and the rest of the places they cite why the fark don't they move there and shut the hell up and let the rest of us get on with life ?

Micah... Greenpeace is calling you, they need someone to count the great white sharks on the reef this weekend.. underwater.. have fun, I'll pack a cooler of chum for you... yumm yummm hoplophobes and chum, sharks love that !

..otay... break time over.. my tea is ready.. back to spreadsheets and work

Ciao babies...:-4


The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya):lips:
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Post by Xxena »

Hey Micah... how come all your other posts OFF THE GUN SITE your typing is top notch , as is your spelling, grammer and command of debate and discussion.. why do you only play the fool here ?



BTW... that is her "Exaulted Extreme Highness Xxena the Gun Warrior Princess" to you and other gun phobics:p ... shoot you and those like you .. NEVER.. its a sin to waste ammo:wah:


The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya):lips:
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Post by BabyRider »

Xxena, I can debate the issue all day. I've fought this battle many times, too. It's when idiots start making assumptions about ME or my life, or what I'm about, or what I know that I can't abide. For some reason this debate brings out the infant in many people, and they resort to huge sweeping assumptions that they have no business making.

Talk about the F**king topic, not me or my life.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
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Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.




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Post by MicahLorain »

BabyRider wrote: Oh goody...here we go again.

You think you're the first twit to come along and call me a "gun nut" simply because I own and know how to use guns?? Please. All you "gun pansies" can take your blanket judgements and stereotypical moronic attitudes and cram 'em where the sun don't shine.

Not that you care, because you seem to think you know SO much about me, but I happen to be a responsible, LAW-ABIDING, gun owner.

I'd be scared? What the F do you know about what I'm scared of? The area I live in is FILLED with crack dealers, gang bangers, muggers, theives and the general dregs of society. The clubhouse the M/C belongs to is in the deepest darkest Africa of a ghetto. Fear that? Sh!t...they fear US. Don't EVER claim to know about MY lifestyle, cause you can't begin to imagine it.

"Biker country where there's nothin' to shoot at"??? HA!! Shows what you know. It's apparent, now, that you don't know jack. When you jump to wild conclusions about a person, it's my reccommendation that you have even an INKLING of what that person lives every day. Until then, keep your erroneous assumptions to yourself.
I'll spread my assumptions where I choose. You and Xena the armchair warrior attacked and berated ME for (GOD FORBID!) supporting gun control!! Dishing it out often leads to tasting it yourself once in awhile.
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Post by MicahLorain »

Xxena wrote: Hey Micah... how come all your other posts OFF THE GUN SITE your typing is top notch , as is your spelling, grammer and command of debate and discussion.. why do you only play the fool here ?



BTW... that is her "Exaulted Extreme Highness Xxena the Gun Warrior Princess" to you and other gun phobics:p ... shoot you and those like you .. NEVER.. its a sin to waste ammo:wah:
The reason I'm not so p issed off in other threads is because, like any human in the minority on a rightwing thread, I get defensive when lambasted. I get personal, go off, then regret it. I bet there is something somewhere we agree on.
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Post by BabyRider »

Just so long as you realize they ARE assumptions, and since you're so hung up on spreading them where you choose, you can do it alone. You don't want to discuss gun issues, you want to rag on me and my beliefs when you don't know jack.

When you decide to rectify the anal-cranium inversion you suffer from, I'll come back to the ISSUE.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
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Post by Pearl Harbor »

MicahLorain wrote: In my neighborhood everyone is armed too. With unregistered weapons that are used to kill people and wound or threaten whatever businesses are left. 74 homicides this year alone in my town. 90% in the urban core. Armed suburbanites and rural residents have nothing to fear. Of course there is low crime. How do we handle the surging street violence involving guns in low income minority areas? One single example: 16 year old boy leaving the Lil Bow Wow concert. He waves at a passing car and is shot in the head. His mother shot in the shoulder and his 14 year old cousin is killed when the car crashes. 16 year old has part of his brain removed. In a coma and unlikely to recover. Assailants found and in possession of stolen gun. Yaaaay!! FREEDOM!


What you fail to mention, is that only the criminals are armed in your neighborhood/city. Law abiding citizens are not allowed to carry concealed. And since law abiding citizens follow the law, only the criminals have the guns in public.
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Post by Xxena »

MicahLorain wrote: I'll spread my assumptions where I choose. You and Xena the armchair warrior attacked and berated ME for (GOD FORBID!) supporting gun control!! Dishing it out often leads to tasting it yourself once in awhile.


Of I were you Micah, I'd shut my big f..... mouth, if you want to walk in my shoes then go right ahead! I've come back from hell a few time in my 52 years and it had NOTHING to do with guns like them or love them.. and it has nothing to do with drugs, alcohol or anything else that is the curse of most... its what others have inflicted on me when I was not in a position to defend myself from childhood on. So take your self righteous bull crap and shove it where the sun don't shine you racist pig. My firearms are for sport and self defense ONLY as a last resort.. you want um.. you come and get um but you have to get through me first and I won't be armed.. NOW MF'er if you have the f... balls to take me on, one on one without anything that either us are armed with .. call it. As a female I have more balls than you do any day , any time for nothing more than sheer guts and tenacity..you whimpering whinny SOB... Go run to mommy so she can wet nurse you some more you sorry sick excuse for a human. Grow the hell up and learn that the world is NOT a pretty place and bad things happen to good people.. that's life and it DOES go on if you want it too. If you want to sit around and feel sorry for yourself, like you obviously do... then go crawl in our stinking hole of self pitty and fester there.

OH my .. I live in an area of crime.. I hate guns, they are the root of all evil.. then Farking MOVE whinny baby... and shut the hell up.

I have things to do, people to see and meet and a life to live and thank God it does NOT involve whimpering sniveling excuses like you.

Oh, just to make the record clear .. I'm no right winger, I'm not a republican or a democrat .. they are both sell out scum suckers.. I'm am a true independent and follow NO political party which is nothing more than hell on earth for those like you that HAVE to have someone lead them by the nose and tell them what to do.

Gun owners are NOT rednecks.. we come from all walks of life, all races, all ethnic groups, all economic and educational groups. Your stereotyping of gunowners is so typical of the "left wingers" its pathetic. The real threats for you and others like you are NOT US.. its your own side you misguided baffoon. You have eaten what they have shoved down your throat so readily its disgusting.

YOu know why I call you mushroom people ? cuz you live in the dark and eat the **** they feed you without EVER ONCE questioning any of it... what a waste of life and time on this planet you and your ilk... we are on this planet for such a lmited time in the scope of the universe.. and you waste it on such trival things because you allow yourself to be led by the nose and brainwashed by those that want to be YOUR Masters. YOU stereotype and discrimate all for one object... a hunk of metal that can do absolutely NOTHING without a human hand controlling it and dicating its use... you make it in YOUR mind a God of destruction when it can have so many other uses in the hands of those that mean no harm to any living being. But, you cannot move beyond that space of "lead me"... you cannot "step out of the box" and think for yourself, where independent thought is the crux of what we are as the species at the top of the food chain IF we allow ourselves to be such though independent thought and actions.

I really do pity people like you.. you are so lost and so out of touch with what you were meant to be and could be if you only had the guts to allow yourself the freedom to think and act without being TOLD what to think and do by your handlers.

Life is for the living and you and people like you are truly the walking dead.

to conclude in the words of Shakespear: Be gone damn spot, be gone !


The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya):lips:
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Post by Accountable »

MicahLorain wrote: The reason I'm not so p issed off in other threads is because, like any human in the minority on a rightwing thread, I get defensive when lambasted. I get personal, go off, then regret it. I bet there is something somewhere we agree on.
Congrats, Micah. You rousted Pearl Harbor from his nearly 4-month slumber - I checked.



Yaaaaaaay Freedom!

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Post by BabyRider »

Far Rider wrote:

Im a constitutionalist. I'm a patriot, Im a soldier, and a law abiding cirtizen, a gun owner and many other things.
Far, when I saw this I about fell over. Not many people use that term, but here's a portion of my profile at another forum:



Fashion Statement

leather

Religion

Eww...ick!! Blech...

Ethnicity

Native American

Political Stance

Constitutionalist

Sexual Orientation

I have to be oriented??

Relationship Status

Very involved! With a sexxxy, smart, caring, HOT big, bad, bald biker.

Children

One 16 year old son.

Personal Ad

Love hard, work hard, play hard, live hard.



I've gotten several comments on it, how do people react when you use the term?
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Post by Clint »

Thank you BR and FR. Now I know what I am. I’ve been trying to put a handle on it because I didn’t identify with any of the other options. Constitutionalist.:yh_clap :yh_dance
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Post by Accountable »

Clint wrote: Thank you BR and FR. Now I know what I am. I’ve been trying to put a handle on it because I didn’t identify with any of the other options. Constitutionalist.:yh_clap :yh_dance
I'll have to check some more before I'm willing to take on that label. I've been talking with Spot outside FG. He claims to be an anarchist and our views are very close to parallel (can you believe it??). I love my Constitution; I'm not sure anarchist and constitutionalist are really so far apart.



This to deal with on top of the news that I'm Scottish. My head hurts.
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Post by BabyRider »

Hmmm...interesting, Micah. Why is it that you say "brought out the real Xxena"?? Is it because of the name-calling? Because that would mean you're doing the same thing you're calling Xxena on.

The frustration that comes from debating the gun issue is very real, and I've been caught up in it many times, including resorting to taking cheap shots. What I don't understand is how can you say it's wrong for her, when you're doing exactly the same thing.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
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The Obstacle of an Armed Citizenry

Post by Xxena »

MicahLorain wrote: :wah: Ohhhh little witch is so insecure even IIIIIIII got to ya! I wear your post with a Badge of Honor!! You proved my point without my even being online!! Fat, old and lonely broads that hate blacks and anyone with a non-incestuous upbringing LOVES dey guns cus they're terrified of their own shadows! Such a cowardess!:yh_loser And an uneducated little tramp!! THIS communist is Proud to have brought out the REAL Xena, Cowardess Tramp of The North!! :yh_laugh

You sound like a child abuser! Such rage over something like a person supporting gun control! BTW my balls are real, dyke.


I think you have to much time on your hands and need to get a real job like the rest of the adult world. Even communists in communist countries must work Comrade and you could use a good dose of some it and being an adult. You whine too much you know that... no one said you lacked balls, you're lacking in the big head on top of your shoulders.. the gray stuff they call brains.

Not fat, not lonely not old and I don't hate any black people, grew up and live in a city that is one of the big melting pots of the USA so its rather hard to be discrimatory to people you have known and been around your whole life knowing them as neighbors, friends, teachers etal.

But you're right I am a racist when it comes to ignorant twits like you. Crawl back into the hole you came out of and go whine by someone that cares.. Dyke :D I have to show my husband this post he'll break up laughing when he reads that one but I do have a few lesbian girlfriends I know would be insulted by your use of the term dyke and the way you used it. But then they are educated professionals that probably make more in a month in the companies they own than you do in a year..

go whine you do that best. Oh, don't forget to watch your back.. some big nasty old gun might creep up on you and decide to shoot itself and get you... they do that you know, just like the boogeyman .... BOO !


The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya):lips:
MicahLorain
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:00 pm

The Obstacle of an Armed Citizenry

Post by MicahLorain »

BabyRider wrote: Hmmm...interesting, Micah. Why is it that you say "brought out the real Xxena"?? Is it because of the name-calling? Because that would mean you're doing the same thing you're calling Xxena on.

The frustration that comes from debating the gun issue is very real, and I've been caught up in it many times, including resorting to taking cheap shots. What I don't understand is how can you say it's wrong for her, when you're doing exactly the same thing.
Then you love both of us equally??

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