Guns And Cops In England

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OpenMind
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Post by OpenMind »

ArnoldLayne wrote: gmc highlights very well the differences in our cultures . Sorry America but you are gonna have to deal with the lack of gun culture here and accept the differences. We will, after having subjected ourselves to a few more changes in government, work it out, by persuing a different way of dealing with our problems, other than pretending the American way is the right way.



I dont know how many times I have said this but I'll say it again. You keep your guns if you wish and respect our wish not to go down that road. Your system works for you , ours works for us


I am proud to be able to say that I have never carried a weapon in my life. I have never had to defend myself violently. Even on those few occasions I have been abroad to work. Generally, I do not brag about this as I wouldn't want to tempt fate. But I feel that I am safe to brag this here. There is a much deeper story here, but it belongs to another thread.
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Post by OpenMind »

Sorry, I have to amend my last statement. When I was about 8 years old, I was threatened by a ten year old boy. I happened to have a metal toy gun and I took the initiative and used it, butt first. The next time I saw him, he complained to me that he had to have stitches in his head. I answered that he should not have threatened me. Funny that my parents did not get to hear about this. I think that he did not give my name because he was ashamed. If he had, my parents would have given me hell.
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Post by lady cop »

i expect that there is some diversity of opinion in England, as there is here re: gun control. i surely recognize the cultural differences, and because i expect to live out my life in old blighty, i am learning all i can absorb.
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Post by OpenMind »

Far Rider wrote: I'm glad that you Brits feel safe without them. I have them and I feel safer with them.



Truth is anywhere in the world guns are available. So for me I'd rather be armed than unarmed.



I would have been dead on a number of occasions without them, but I purposely put myself in front of them so it's a bit different.



Different cultures. Go figure.


When I read your posts, Far, I kinda get the sense that you have a trigger finger. That's to say, you're quick to the boil. As a kid, I joined the Boys Brigade and I was quite good with the rifle, but my wrist was too weak for the pistol they had (.45).

I simply have a different philosophy (even from my own country's citizens) and some of this comes from America. Besides that, my body is a weapon, I can run, more importantly, I can befriend. I am surrounded by (natural) weapons if needs be. But I have never had to use them. I have a keen instinct that serves me well.
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Post by lady cop »

Six held over woman Pc's killing

A sixth person - a man - is arrested over the fatal shooting of a female Pc during a robbery in Bradford. ....according to this article, the officer was shot in the chest, not the face, and she wore what appears to be most inadequate body armour.
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Post by OpenMind »

lady cop wrote: Six held over woman Pc's killing

A sixth person - a man - is arrested over the fatal shooting of a female Pc during a robbery in Bradford. ....according to this article, the officer was shot in the chest, not the face, and she wore what appears to be most inadequate body armour.


There appears to be a lot of different statements about what actually happened. Last night, the TV reported one of them had only been on the force for 8 weeks. Today, it's nine months. No wonder we don't believe the media here.

Why the hell wasn't it reported as an armed robbery? I can't understand that bit.
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Post by Bez »

Latest news from the BBC...........



Six quizzed over woman Pc murder

Pc Beshenivsky had three children and two step-children

Six people arrested in London over the fatal shooting of Pc Sharon Beshenivsky are due to be questioned in Bradford.

The five men and one woman, who were all arrested on Saturday, will be questioned about the shooting outside a travel agents in Bradford on Friday.

Doctors said the condition of the Pc's colleague, Teresa Milburn, who was shot in the shoulder, had improved.

Meanwhile, former Met Police chief Lord Stevens called for the death penalty for those who murder police officers.

Pc Milburn is in hospital with a shoulder injury



Lord Stevens said the killing of the 38-year-old mother-of-five on her youngest daughter Lydia's fourth birthday had forced him to reconsider his lifelong opposition to the death penalty.

He told the News of the World: "For the first time in my life, despite 40 years at the sharp end of policing, I finally see no alternative. "Such an extreme act of pure evil can only be met by the most extreme of responses - and that can only be death." Pc Beshenivsky's father, Billy Jagger, also told of his grief and anger, saying he wanted kill whoever shot his daughter "with my own bare hands".

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Post by lady cop »



Debate over whether to arm police



Should carrying guns become the norm for police officers?



A former senior police representative has opposed arming all officers in the wake of the Bradford police shooting.

Lord Brian Mackenzie - former president of the Superintendents' Association of England and Wales - said the move risked making violence worse.

Citing time spent with the American FBI, he said officers often were shot with their own weapons by attackers.

"And of course you have more risk of accidents and innocent people get shot," he told Radio Five Live.

On Saturday, Home Office minister Hazel Blears also rejected calls for officers to be routinely armed, saying it could endanger the police's relationship with the public.

Ms Blears said what happened in Bradford highlighted "the fact that police officers right across the country put their lives on the line in many cases in order to protect the rest of us".

In the wake of the Bradford shooting, the Police Federation has called for more armed response units.

"When we did a survey three years ago of all police officers, over 80% of police officers said they did not believe that every police officer should be routinely armed," Ms Blears told BBC News.

"They did, however, express concern that not sufficient officers were trained to carry firearms.

"I do think that the resilience of the police officers, in terms of having enough firearms officers, is extremely questionable at the moment and that will need to be properly debated."

'Informed debate'

Pc Norman Brennan, director of Protect the Protectors, welcomed an "informed debate" and a ballot of all officers on "the full time arming of the British police service".

"The adage that if you arm the police more criminals will carry guns is nonsense.

"The police service are being outgunned on the streets of Britain day and night."

Film director Michael Winner, founder of the Police Memorial Trust, is among the most vocal advocates of guns for all officers.

"The criminals are armed with guns and knives, with weapons that kill the police and I think they should have a better chance of retaliation," he said.

However, Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair has said 90% of the Met is unarmed and he "wants to keep it that way".



Chris Fox, president of the Association of Chief Police Officers, called on the courts to issue stiffer punishments to offenders caught carrying weapons. "They should get the very maximum sentences - throw away the key, for me," he said.

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Post by lady cop »

Citing time spent with the American FBI, he said officers often were shot with their own weapons by attackers. ....what total crap.
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Post by Galbally »

I think that one of the most relevant parts of the piece that ladycop posted was the attitude of an unarmed civilian population to an armed police force. I think that it is right and proper that the police have a capability to respond to incidents involving firearms with adequate protection and a means of defending themselves i.e. firearms. But in the U.K. and Ireland the majority of police work and incidents will invovle unarmed citizens and arming all police at all times would imeadiatly change the nature of this work, and alter the relationship between citizens and their police force. In our countries the police enfore the law through consent, in that they represent the state and the law as unarmed agents of that law. Normally over here any encounters with these state representitives will not involve you being confronted by someone with a gun, this by demonstrates a society that is unwilling unless necessary to always have the option of the use of deadly force to coerce its citizens to comply with the law, but expects them to act resonibly and participate in a society without having to be physically threatened. To be sure there are people who have no intention of doing anything of the sort, but they are a minority, and you do not need your entire law enforcement community to be armed to deal with him. Now this is just the way it is over here, the situation in the states where in general the public are armed is a different one as I'm sure that ladycop will know. I am happy that in our coutries over here the state is able (for the moment) to use a low level of physical force to enfore the law, where there is a serious problem is in the sentance handed down (particularly in the case of violent crime) by the judiciary, but that is a seperate argument.
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Post by lady cop »

we survive by a "use of force continuum"...we meet force with equal force, in otherwords i am not going to shoot the shoplifter. and you are correct in that things are different here. everyone has a bloody gun and i have to assume they do. further, in my conversations with Bothwell i understand sentencing in England is woefully pathetic. what do you get, 5 years for murder? where's the deterrent? we in florida have a mandated law-10-20-life, judges have no discretion, carry a gun, 10 years. use a gun in a crime, 20 years. discharge the gun at a person, life. period.
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Post by Galbally »

lady cop wrote: we survive by a "use of force continuum"...we meet force with equal force, in otherwords i am not going to shoot the shoplifter. and you are correct in that things are different here. everyone has a bloody gun and i have to assume they do. further, in my conversations with Bothwell i understand sentencing in England is woefully pathetic. what do you get, 5 years for murder? where's the deterrent? we in florida have a mandated law-10-20-life, judges have no discretion, carry a gun, 10 years. use a gun in a crime, 20 years. discharge the gun at a person, life. period.


I think this almost gets into the gun control issue, where in my country the state does not permit its citizens to hold handguns (though some people do have guns such as farmers etc) and as part of that "deal" the state does not automatically reserve the right to arm all the agents of the law. By and large this approach has worked well here, though of course incident such as those that happened on Firday in England show that there is a price to pay for such leaniancy. I think most people in Ireland and Britain, if not in love with the police, at least accept them. I think what people would like to see here is simply more officers, better training, a more zero tolerance approach (including armed responses) to serious and habitual offenders, and most importantly an overhaul of the judcial and prison system, whereby there was an adequte deterent for those people who are never going to law abiding.
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Post by OpenMind »

Far Rider wrote: I can befriend talk and cajole someone into giving up, but its so much easier to walk up and break their arm off, so why waste my breath.



Arent you sick and tired of dealing with folks who have no regard for other people in the first place? Why should we give up our peaceful living to take huge amounts of time money and energy out to go talk and befirend or run away from some hellion?



I am sick of the types of people that suck all of the energy out of life. Be gone already I say.



I am not trigger happy, I am happy to talk with folks who are law abiding citizens. But so help me pull a gun out or yell at your kid, or slap a weaker person in my presence and I'm not gonna just stop and befriend them.



OM it takes all kinds in this world, and I appreciate your approach, but I'm passed it. Call me jaded, fine I'll accept that. The problem with this world as I see it is we've been on your approach for far to long and we've sat by and watched our common enemies build up around us, and among us.


But for the Grace of God, go I. I was fortunate enough to have been taught decent values as a child. Not everyone gets this, damned few in fact except for the very wealthy.

As I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, I am prepared to kill to defend my life, my property, my peers, and my community. But this is a last resort for me. On the other hand, if a person kills in cold blood, he should be sentenced to death. A life for a life.

This does not mean that I don't respect your opinion Far. It is a sad world where everyone thinks they're more important or special than the next guy. You have your reasons for your opinion and I'm no judge. Personally, I think you have displayed strong values.

Fortunately, I don't have confrontations very often. But the feeling is so high if I can win through without a fight.
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Post by ComfortablyNumb »

Wgat were two probationers doing being sent to a robbery? Used to be that one in a team had to be experienced.

Re guns/no guns:

British justice has mainly been based on 'punishment should fit the crime'. If you bring guns into the equation then all that would change. Opportunist thieves (some of them age undetermined) could be gunned down by adrenalin pumping bobbies, maybe for stealing a DvD and running and refusing to stop.

Is death a suitable punishment for theft? No. Life for life only.
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Post by gmc »

posted by open mind

There appears to be a lot of different statements about what actually happened. Last night, the TV reported one of them had only been on the force for 8 weeks. Today, it's nine months. No wonder we don't believe the media here.

Why the hell wasn't it reported as an armed robbery? I can't understand that bit.


One of the staff set off a panic button, the police had no reason to expect the prescence of gunmen

posted by open mind

But for the Grace of God, go I. I was fortunate enough to have been taught decent values as a child. Not everyone gets this, damned few in fact except for the very wealthy.


Oh right so you have to be wealthy to know right from wrong? The biggest crooks always wear suits and are good at getting away with it. I assume you didn't mean it the way it came across else you as the younger son of a single parent family from a council housing estate I would be tempted to be quite rude.

As an aside seeing the hunting lobby flouting the law and daring the police to arrest them for it rather detracts from their right to criticise chavs doing the same thing with stolen cars:sneaky:

You will find in the housing schemes up and down the country the ones that want to be toughest on crime, particularly violent crime, are those whose life are made a misery by mindless thuggery. The biggest problem is not the police or the system but a judiciary that think someone committing a violent crime just needs a smack on the wrist but will imprison a petty thief. In Glasgow recently, a two year old was killed by a thug with an air rifle, if the locals had got their hands on him going to prison would have been the least of his problems. The demand for the control of their sale and that of combat style knives isn't driven by the hunting and fishing set worried about the hoi polloi, it's the hoi polloi themselves that want the ban just as it was the hoi polloi that demanded the hand gun ban.

posted by galbally

I think what people would like to see here is simply more officers, better training, a more zero tolerance approach (including armed responses) to serious and habitual offenders, and most importantly an overhaul of the judcial and prison system, whereby there was an adequte deterent for those people who are never going to law abiding.


I would be inclined to agree with you there. The police have become a bit detached from their local communities. It's not that locals are hotile to them they just want to see them doing more and doing it visibly.

Michael winner is a narcissistic arsehole fascinated by sadistic violence who would probably revel in the kind of freewheeling violence that would result if we listen to nutters like him.
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Post by BabyRider »

ComfortablyNumb wrote: Opportunist thieves (some of them age undetermined) could be gunned down by adrenalin pumping bobbies, maybe for stealing a DvD and running and refusing to stop.
Comments like this always crack me up. Are you really so afraid of your police force that you're concerned they will lose all self-control and forget every minute of training and start popping off rounds at the slightest provocation? Our police force is trained better than that. We trust them more than that.
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Post by gmc »

posted by babyrider

Comments like this always crack me up. Are you really so afraid of your police force that you're concerned they will lose all self-control and forget every minute of training and start popping off rounds at the slightest provocation? Our police force is trained better than that. We trust them more than that.


Are traffic wardens armed in the States? That really would be frightening, having a power trip with a parking ticket is bad enough.
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Post by Bothwell »

Just a couple of points first, someone metioned the last copper shot dead over here, it was up North somewhere and he was actually shot by a Florida native on the run from the USA for a contract killing. He of course was caught sentenced to life but will not be extradited to the USA as Florida has the death penalty and the EU human rights act forbids member nations from doing such a thing.

Secondly there is no role for the government or teflon Tony here, it is entirely up to each chief contsable as to how many armed officers he wants to put on the street, every policeman/woman could be armed right now if they were trained, so it would appear that the chief constables do not want this.

BTW i would take with a large pinch of salt any comments made by Norman Brennan, slightly to the right of Attila the Hun is my impression of him, wants death penalty back as well.

IMO the error made here was in admin, whoever decided having got the call that an armed robbery was in progress sent two unarmed policewomen???
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Post by OpenMind »

gmc wrote: posted by open mind





One of the staff set off a panic button, the police had no reason to expect the prescence of gunmen



posted by open mind





Oh right so you have to be wealthy to know right from wrong? The biggest crooks always wear suits and are good at getting away with it. I assume you didn't mean it the way it came across else you as the younger son of a single parent family from a council housing estate I would be tempted to be quite rude.



As an aside seeing the hunting lobby flouting the law and daring the police to arrest them for it rather detracts from their right to criticise chavs doing the same thing with stolen cars:sneaky:



You will find in the housing schemes up and down the country the ones that want to be toughest on crime, particularly violent crime, are those whose life are made a misery by mindless thuggery. The biggest problem is not the police or the system but a judiciary that think someone committing a violent crime just needs a smack on the wrist but will imprison a petty thief. In Glasgow recently, a two year old was killed by a thug with an air rifle, if the locals had got their hands on him going to prison would have been the least of his problems. The demand for the control of their sale and that of combat style knives isn't driven by the hunting and fishing set worried about the hoi polloi, it's the hoi polloi themselves that want the ban just as it was the hoi polloi that demanded the hand gun ban.



posted by galbally





I would be inclined to agree with you there. The police have become a bit detached from their local communities. It's not that locals are hotile to them they just want to see them doing more and doing it visibly.



Michael winner is a narcissistic arsehole fascinated by sadistic violence who would probably revel in the kind of freewheeling violence that would result if we listen to nutters like him.


I was raised by my grandparents who already had five children of their own. Raised on a council estate. My grandparents never lived anywhere than on a council estate. I have never been rich in my life.

Your sarcasm is unbefitting.
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Post by lady cop »

click for article......Shot Pc's father at murder scene

The father of murdered police officer Sharon Beshenivsky visits the scene of the shooting in Bradford. .
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Post by BabyRider »

gmc wrote:

Are traffic wardens armed in the States? That really would be frightening, having a power trip with a parking ticket is bad enough.
We don't have "traffic wardens" and all our police force (including the traffic cops) are armed. Again, I'll ask you: do you have so little faith in your police force that you're afraid they'll get a gun in their hands and immediately lose all control and reason? Whatever their position? I've held hundreds of guns and believe me, it's just not THAT thrilling.
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Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????


We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.




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Post by Galbally »

BabyRider wrote: We don't have "traffic wardens" and all our police force (including the traffic cops) are armed. Again, I'll ask you: do you have so little faith in your police force that you're afraid they'll get a gun in their hands and immediately lose all control and reason? Whatever their position? I've held hundreds of guns and believe me, it's just not THAT thrilling.


No, we are not afraid to have armed police as we have them already, e.g. 2 months ago Irish police from an ERU (emergency respose unit) shot dead 3 bank robbers during a raid who opened fire on them, and there are a couple of incidents like this most years. What we don't want right now is for "all" police to be armed as a matter of course, as we don't feel that is either required or desriable. If 99 percent of citizens don't possess or carry firearms then there is no need for all of the police to have them either. If it became a case where criminals were routinly shooting unarmed police officers in cold blood, then obviously the rules would have to change as the police would not be able to do their work safely, it hasn't quite come to that yet, though if it does then I will be the first to call for a completely armed force.
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Post by gmc »

posted by babyrider

We don't have "traffic wardens" and all our police force (including the traffic cops) are armed. Again, I'll ask you: do you have so little faith in your police force that you're afraid they'll get a gun in their hands and immediately lose all control and reason? Whatever their position? I've held hundreds of guns and believe me, it's just not THAT thrillin


personally no. But I see no need to have them all armed.

I was being slightly facetious about the traffic wardens. Blue meanies as they are known up here, power mad twits e.g. I have been given a ticket for parking in a disabled space WITH a disabled sticker displayed-even the supervisor who happened along couldn't believe that one. muppets with pens.

posted by openmind

I was raised by my grandparents who already had five children of their own. Raised on a council estate. My grandparents never lived anywhere than on a council estate. I have never been rich in my life.

Your sarcasm is unbefitting.


My comment was in response to yours

But for the Grace of God, go I. I was fortunate enough to have been taught decent values as a child. Not everyone gets this, damned few in fact except for the very wealthy.


Rather implied only the wealthy are taught moral values. Didn't think you meant it the way it read. You do indeed meet those who think anyone from a housing estate must be a crook or wastrel worthy only of asbos and jail sentences. Had you indeed meant that i would have felt entirely justified in being sarcastic. As it is no offence intended and my apologies if any were given.
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Post by buttercup »

far - our police join up knowing that they will be unarmed

our police are aware that these instances are rare

the british people & officers on the whole do not want to be armed

why is it bothering the american people so much?
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Post by lady cop »

buttercup wrote:



why is it bothering the american people so much?mostly the story was bothering me Buttercup, i took it personally that two defenseless women officers were shot. :yh_flower :yh_flower
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Post by buttercup »

lc its so very sad & our thoughts, prayers & heartfelt sympathy goes to the families of these women

we have to remember hun that it was there choice to join the force & take on all the responsibility that entails when part of the force in this country, you have to remember

we do not have a problem recruiting officers

this instance, painfull as it is - is incredibly rare & new recruits know this

hugs to you lc, i do understand your pain being a serving officer yourself
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Post by Galbally »

Far Rider wrote: Dammit, ask yourself how many of your unarmed cops need to die before you equal the odds?

What the hell, they are expendable?

Why wait for it to get to be routine?


Far rider, being a police officer is dangerous that is part of the job. When incidents like last friday happen, you obviously think about whether more should be done to lessen the chances of police being killed by criminals, we're not children. But you don't seem to realize that having an unarmed police force is very important to us, its the type of society that we want to have. We are happy with the way things are, if people go out with guns and think they can use them then I am quite happy for the police to deal with them, but that believe it or not, is not the normal situation where I live. And I will not give the government summary powers to police an unarmed socitey with armed force by using the fear of extreme and still quite rare violent gun crime as an excuse. You as an American should understand why I would be wary of giving the state any more power over our lives than it already has.
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Post by OpenMind »

gmc wrote: Rather implied only the wealthy are taught moral values. Didn't think you meant it the way it read. You do indeed meet those who think anyone from a housing estate must be a crook or wastrel worthy only of asbos and jail sentences. Had you indeed meant that i would have felt entirely justified in being sarcastic. As it is no offence intended and my apologies if any were given.
No apologies needed GMC but thanks anyway. I really must learn not to generalise too much.

The case of the UK's changing moral values is not an easy one to explain. It involves more than one social force. Needless to say, I'm not going to try and expound on that here.
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Post by OpenMind »

Here a couple of links that may help anyone who wants to know the philosophy of our police forces.

http://www.victorianweb.org/history/pms ... eel10.html



http://www.newwestpolice.org/peel.html
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Post by Galbally »

Far Rider wrote: I apologize, Im not british, I should bow out of this conversation I dont understand obviously...

This is just way off my norm. It appears unreasonable to me.

There's no need to apologize Far Rider you are entitled to your opinion, its just a different cultural perspective. I am the same about the gun culture in America, which I find strange and a little disturbing, but I know enough Americans now to know that its their way, they grew up in a different society, and that my perspective doesn't really apply to them. I think its good when people say what they think about these things becuase even if you don't agree its always useful to get a new pair of eyes looking at something. I think its fair to say that when it comes to issues like this, and particularly civilian gun ownership Europeans and Americans just have completely different ideas about whats for the best.

P.S. Just for the record, I'm not British either! ;)
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Post by pantsonfire321@aol.com »

£2.000 - Is all they got say one news paper this morning and four of the suspects were wait for it ASYLUM SEEKERS .Beggers belief - i believe thats where most of the guns come from that hit our steets,because we didnt have a gun problem before we were swamped with aliens .
Can go from 0 - to bitch in 3.0 seconds .:D







Smile people :yh_bigsmi







yep, this bitch bites back .;)
gmc
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Guns And Cops In England

Post by gmc »

posted by pantsonfire (Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: london

Posts: 306 )

£2.000 - Is all they got say one news paper this morning and four of the suspects were wait for it ASYLUM SEEKERS .Beggers belief - i believe thats where most of the guns come from that hit our steets,because we didnt have a gun problem before we were swamped with aliens .


Why is it people from london think anybody from up north is from a different planet? :thinking:
lady cop
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Post by lady cop »

2005, 13:11 GMT



Police hunt three over Pc killing

Pc Sharon Beshenivsky joined the Bradford South team in May

Police investigating the shooting of Pc Sharon Beshenivsky in Bradford on Friday have said they are actively seeking three male suspects.

They said there were significant developments in the case as they released a 31-year-old man on bail.

Pc Beshenivsky was shot dead and her colleague, Pc Teresa Milburn, injured during a robbery at a travel agents.

Officers have also released details of a silver Toyota hire car thought to be have been used in the robbery.

They identified the car as a Rav 4 model, registration number WP05 YTT.

Travelled north

Det Supt Andy Brennan, of West Yorkshire Police, said: "The vehicle was hired at Heathrow Airport on 25 October.

"We believe the vehicle travelled to West Yorkshire from London in the early hours of Friday and returned to London later that evening."

Police now have possession of the Toyota and want to hear from anyone who may have seen it particularly last Friday, the day of the robbery.

Pc Beshenivsky, 38, died after being shot in the chest on her youngest daughter's fourth birthday. She had been a serving police officer for nine months.

Her colleague Pc Milburn, 37, who joined the West Yorkshire force in April 2004, was shot in the shoulder during the raid on the travel agents on Morley Street in Bradford.

Piles of flowers have been place at the scene of the shooting



Five Somalian men, and a woman, were arrested in London over the weekend and brought to police stations in West Yorkshire but have all now been released.

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said Scotland Yard detectives were helping West Yorkshire Police.

He said significant developments were expected in the next 24 hours and the search for suspects was being extended wider than the Somali community.

BBC correspondent Mark Simpson said it is understood police know the names of two of the men regarded as prime suspects in the case.

Their names, which have not been made public, are being circulated to police forces and to airports.

At Prime Minister's Questions in the Commons, Tony Blair offered condolences to the family of Pc Beshenivsky who, he said, had been "so tragically murdered on duty".

Meanwhile in Bradford, a large police operation was still continuing at the scene of the shooting with officers carrying out house-to-house inquiries in the city. Outside the travel agency, forensic scientists have been carrying out a fingertip search behind a wooden barricade.
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OpenMind
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Guns And Cops In England

Post by OpenMind »

Interesting LC. Yesterday on the evening news, it was stated that two men and the woman were released on bail pending further investigations. I wonder if they are now hunting for the people they released.
lady cop
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Post by lady cop »

OpenMind wrote: Interesting LC. Yesterday on the evening news, it was stated that two men and the woman were released on bail pending further investigations. I wonder if they are now hunting for the people they released.no, it's three others from my understanding.
ComfortablyNumb
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Post by ComfortablyNumb »

BabyRider wrote: Comments like this always crack me up. Are you really so afraid of your police force that you're concerned they will lose all self-control and forget every minute of training and start popping off rounds at the slightest provocation? Our police force is trained better than that. We trust them more than that.


Well, an innocent South American was gunned down on the London Underground a little while back, and I've just read a hair raising stat:

13 British police have been killed in 20 years

1000 civilians have been killed by British police since 1969

Until they're as familiar with firearms and as well trained as a New York cop I WILL be scared!
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abbey
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Post by abbey »

ComfortablyNumb wrote: Well, an innocent South American was gunned down on the London Underground a little while back, and I've just read a hair raising stat:



13 British police have been killed in 20 years

1000 civilians have been killed by British police since 1969



Until they're as familiar with firearms and as well trained as a New York cop I WILL be scared!Have to agree with that, our armed police do seem to be trigger happy.
lady cop
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Post by lady cop »

click for article............ Police name Pc shooting suspects

Three men wanted in connection with the murder of a policewoman in Bradford are named by police.

lady cop
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Post by lady cop »

my last post in this thread was nov. 25. this is from today's BBC, Feb.14 2006. another woman police officer shot..............................

Policewoman shot during burglary

A 25-year-old female Pc is in a serious condition after being shot as she attended a burglary in Nottingham.

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