Medical Reasons for Abortion

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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

BabyRider wrote: Acc, here's a scenario for you:

A young woman is living with a man. She is having sex with him, using condoms to prevent pregnancy and STD's. He is abusive, and a drunk. Somehow, despite all the girls efforts, she finds herself pregnant. It's not a good pregnancy, and she's bleeding quite a bit. She sees her Dr., who tells her, the pregnancy *might* be carried to term, no guarantees if the baby will be "normal" and no guarantees the girl will survive the pregnancy, let alone the delivery. She decides to abort the pregnancy.

How do you view this person?Accountable wrote: I see the mother's role and responsibility is to risk her life to save that of her child, yes. She took on that responsibility when she had consensual sex.BabyRider wrote: And tried to prevent a pregnancy by using birth control.



The possibility of a viable pregnancy was slim, and yet you maintain that it's the woman's responsibility to risk her own life to sustain a pregnancy that wasn't wanted in the first place and has little hope of making it to term, let alone be healthy?I'm not responsible for the bad decisions of others, including those that went wrong against the odds. I am accountable to my own values. I'm sorry they apparently don't mesh with this young lady's. I see the mother's role and responsibility is to risk her life to save that of her child. She took on that responsibility when she had consensual sex.
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Post by Jives »

Accountable wrote: I will not sit and support murdering a baby.


And if the baby comes out horribly mutated and deformed, doomed to live a life of terrifying pain and regret? How would you feel then?

Wouldn't it have been better to "murder it" or as I put it, "save it from a lifetime of sorrow?":rolleyes:
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Post by Jives »

Far Rider wrote: They were counseled to terminate the pregnancy. Both refused instantly, said to themselves it was not their call, but Gods (or nature if you prefer)....


I thought of something. In the olden times, babies that were seriously handicapped just didn't survive for long. Isn't it possible that that is "Nature's way", or "God's way" and that by using our technology to help these crippled children live is against his natural order of things?

After all, survival of the fittest is the first law of Nature.:rolleyes:
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Post by robinseggs »

Far Rider wrote: T girl... I have a really hard time weighing in on this one, cause Im a guy, and I have religious idaes about abortion... so Ill set both those aside for a second to focus in on this issue, (try anyway)

Two stories..

I family I know very well has 7 children their first was born hadicapped, and lived for 13 years, an invalid, they basically took care of all his needs as an infant of about 6 months old, all of his life... they had 5 more children all normal in every way, in the mothers 40's they found themselves pregnant again.... She was told that her baby had down syndrome after a test they did on her. They were counseled to terminate the pregnancy. Both refused instantly, said to themselves it was not their call, but Gods (or nature if you prefer)... They had a daughter, Suzannah is her name, she is a doll, she is a perfectly functioning little girl, she has the downsyndrome look, but really, as far as her ability to learn, and grow normally it is very difficult to tell her apart from any other child.

Following the first gulf war, one of my buddies and his wife had their first born son, born, before birth he was told thery'd be a chance he would be deformed, they chose not to terminate but have the child. He was born with a growth in his groin and malformed abdomen, that could be repaired if he lived to four months old. His son died after three weeks. There was some suffering on his part according to the nurses who took care of him. 8 of us guys got together and gave his son a full military buriel, out of honor for my buddy. One of the toughest things Ive ever done.

His wife said something to mine that I heard second hand but has always stuck with me... "I held my son for three weeks, and gave him every chance I could".

Life is always about choices, to err on the side of giving life rather than taking it seems the most right thing to do, when we are talking about the innocent.

I know youre not religious, but in my life Ive seen this over and over again when it comes to believers... "what God orders he cares for" It's my belief that if that was not supposed to be born, then God would not have allowed it to be concieved. In addition to that, what God brings into my life, he also gives the grace and mercy and strength to bare up under it or get through it.

My two cents worth...

Life sometimes gives out hard choices, I dont envy your friends position.


OK....I am crying! Very touching stories...thanks for sharing and may God bless both of those families. Someone in the midwest cried for them today.
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robinseggs
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Post by robinseggs »

Jives wrote: I thought of something. In the olden times, babies that were seriously handicapped just didn't survive for long. Isn't it possible that that is "Nature's way", or "God's way" and that by using our technology to help these crippled children live is against his natural order of things?

After all, survival of the fittest is the first law of Nature.:rolleyes:


I was told in the delivery room that if I were 2 weeks further along w/ little Daniel, that they could rescesitate (sp?) when he would start to die. At 22 wks gestation they have equipment small enough for what they call the "micro" preemies. But at 20 wks they said there was almost nothing they could do. He would surely die. It broke my heart. Doctors also said that some need little help at all. Some parents opt to not rescesitate. Although I know I would have opted for it, I am almost thankful that it was already decided and I didn't even have to be faced w/ yet another decision.
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Post by TenneseeGirl »

pantsonfire321@aol.com wrote: I had a friend who used termination as a contraceptive she had three terminations before she was 18 the third and last was a late abortion she was about 24 weeks i remember visiting her in hospital she had been through 3 days of labour then had to give birth to live baby -which would then die- it was horrific. My termination was at 16 weeks i new it had to be then or never my other half felt the same way we knew then we couldnt bring a child into a world of pain. Every story should be judged on its own merits - would you judge a woman who wanted a termination after a rape - see..every case is different its not black and white .


It is these types of situations that make me angry. When women use it as birth controll. I think that this is "wrong". But i would not stop them from doing it. i think it is wrong for the simple fact that they know how to prevent pregnancy after the first abortion they will have offered many options of birth controll. Then they chose to ignore it. i can not say that i believe that abortion is "right" in every circumstance. but the option would not be there if we were not supposed to use it. Here i go about to make a ton of people angry. but if god is all knowing then he would not have put abortion on the planet if he had new it would not have been used.
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Post by TenneseeGirl »

And as an update. My friend and i are going on the 1st. we have to drive 60 miles in order to get it done. We live in a bible belt type town and no place here(even on post) offers this procedure. It will be a difficult thing for her. And i know that she will have alot to think about in the days to come. I just hope that she will have the courage to live with the decision that she has made. It is dificult to give up a child no matter what stage of life it is in and difficult to live with those decisions. Whether its abortion/ adoption or miscarriage there is always a sence of loss and a wonder of what could have been. I know that many of you shun this behavior. And others support it. I hope that one day, the maker of rules and morality will come down and free us all from these trying debates. but untill that happens there will always be right and wrong. no matter what side of the fence you are on....
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Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not that's up to you.:lips:
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Post by observer1 »

Accountable wrote: I'm not responsible for the bad decisions of others, including those that went wrong against the odds. I am accountable to my own values. I'm sorry they apparently don't mesh with this young lady's. I see the mother's role and responsibility is to risk her life to save that of her child. She took on that responsibility when she had consensual sex.


I'm just wondering why, if as you say, the father should have a say, we're not concerned with the mother's life. I don't see the father's life being put at risk here. Can't have it both ways.
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Post by LilacDragon »

observer1 wrote: I'm just wondering why, if as you say, the father should have a say, we're not concerned with the mother's life. I don't see the father's life being put at risk here. Can't have it both ways.


Well, there is a thought! A father risking his life to carry a child to term despite everything else. Or a father unable to walk away from a severly handicapped child.

IMHO, in a committed relationship, both father and mother should have a discussion about the options available if a child, in utero, is found to be profoundly handicapped or if the mother has an illness or disease that makes child bearing a risk to her own life. But the ultimate decision should be up to the mother. It is, after all, her life (and quite honestly - her's alone) that will be lost or changed forever.

A profoundly handicapped child is a gift from God, just like any other child. They are also very stressful for parents. I would bet that these families are like most families - living from paycheck to paycheck trying to make ends meet. A profoundly handicapped child means that mother must quit her job to provide 24 hour care. If she is lucky, she has family and friends that can help her out. If not, then she is it 24/7. So dad has to go out and get a second job. Now dad is tired when he is home so he doesn't have the energy to help mom out as much as he would like. Mom feels resentful. Communications between the parents break down and fights over money become common. The marriage falls apart.

There is the mother, on her own, with a child to raise. Not easy in the best of circumstances.

While I am quite sure that none of the men on this forum would desert their wives in the above situation - it happens every day.
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Post by Accountable »

Jives wrote: And if the baby comes out horribly mutated and deformed, doomed to live a life of terrifying pain and regret? How would you feel then?



Wouldn't it have been better to "murder it" or as I put it, "save it from a lifetime of sorrow?":rolleyes:
The Accountable way: On the almost-sure chance that someone in the world, possibly the entire world, may benefit from the blessing, allow the baby to have life.



The Jive way: On even the off-chance that someone might be inconvenienced from an imperfect offspring or imperfect life, get an abortion.



In America, a woman can choose either.
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Post by Accountable »

observer1 wrote: I'm just wondering why, if as you say, the father should have a say, we're not concerned with the mother's life. I don't see the father's life being put at risk here. Can't have it both ways.
Can't have what both ways?



The choice was made at the time of consensual sex. God decided that only the woman could carry the baby to term, not me, not men. It would be really cool (and scary) if a doc could transfer the baby, but that's not reality.
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Post by observer1 »

Accountable wrote: Can't have what both ways?



The choice was made at the time of consensual sex. God decided that only the woman could carry the baby to term, not me, not men. It would be really cool (and scary) if a doc could transfer the baby, but that's not reality.


That seems like such a cheuvanistic answer, Acc. We can't help we are the ones to carry the baby. But we BOTH participate, & usually it is the man who gets the most gratification. Two responsibilities. But unfortunately, usually stuck to the mother. So, that leaves the choice up to her as well.
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Post by BabyRider »

Accountable wrote: I'm not responsible for the bad decisions of others, including those that went wrong against the odds. I am accountable to my own values. I'm sorry they apparently don't mesh with this young lady's. I see the mother's role and responsibility is to risk her life to save that of her child. She took on that responsibility when she had consensual sex.
My question is, how do you come to the conclusion that the mother's life is expendable as long as the baby has a chance? Even if it's a very slim chance?
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Post by Accountable »

observer1 wrote: That seems like such a cheuvanistic answer, Acc. We can't help we are the ones to carry the baby. But we BOTH participate, & usually it is the man who gets the most gratification. Two responsibilities. But unfortunately, usually stuck to the mother. So, that leaves the choice up to her as well.
The choice was made at the time of consensual sex.

The choice was made at the time of consensual sex.

The choice was made at the time of consensual sex.



If I could put it to music so you'd get it better, I would.



The choice was made at the time of consensual sex. That's when both, both, took on the awesome responsibility of bringing life into this world. I'm sorry the man can walk away virtually unscathed (at least in this life), I truly am. I'm sorry birth is painful, I truly am. I'm sorry medical science has made it so easy to shun parental responsibility, I truly am.
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Post by Accountable »

BabyRider wrote: My question is, how do you come to the conclusion that the mother's life is expendable as long as the baby has a chance? Even if it's a very slim chance?
Because she's the mother. The husband's life is likewise expendable to save that of the wife. The soldier's life is likewise expendable to save that of his nation. Responsibility sucks sometimes.
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Post by Bez »

Accountable wrote: The choice was made at the time of consensual sex.

The choice was made at the time of consensual sex.

The choice was made at the time of consensual sex.



If I could put it to music so you'd get it better, I would.



The choice was made at the time of consensual sex. That's when both, both, took on the awesome responsibility of bringing life into this world. I'm sorry the man can walk away virtually unscathed (at least in this life), I truly am. I'm sorry birth is painful, I truly am. I'm sorry medical science has made it so easy to shun parental responsibility, I truly am.


Eloquence personified ACC and 100% true. I see a great LACK of responsibility in humankind at the moment for actions taken in most areas of what we call 'living'. Too casual in words and actions and too ready to blame ....well...anybody, and too ready to expect somone else to dig them out of the mire that they got themselves into.
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Post by observer1 »

Accountable wrote: Because she's the mother. The husband's life is likewise expendable to save that of the wife. The soldier's life is likewise expendable to save that of his nation. Responsibility sucks sometimes.


Or HER nation??? Don't you remember the story of the woman who was killed when Jessica Lynch was taken hostage??? We fight right alongside the "men".

I'm sorry this is the painful truth, I truly am.
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Post by pantsonfire321@aol.com »

I asked before but nobody answered so again what if a woman is raped is she duty bound to complete the pregnancy .
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Post by LilacDragon »

It seems to me rather a bit unfair that if a woman consents to having sex she must also consent to dieing or spending the rest of her life taking care of a child that may never be able to take care of itself, while all a man really consents to is a good time. So it seems to me that final decisions on whether or not to carry a child to term should rest squarely with the woman.
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Post by actionfigurestepho »

Here's my idea to solve the problem. Are you ready?

Ok. Find a way to sterilize people that's reversable.

Make them take a bunch of classes. Have social workers come check them out, make sure they're responsible, mature, not pedophiles, what have you. (This also creates jobs!) Collect references.

If the person can pass, they are then allowed to procreate.

It would certainly solve the abortion debate.

Ah, if I were in charge.
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Post by actionfigurestepho »

Well if I were in charge the social welfare system would be fixed, believe me. You wouldn't get arrested for raising your voice to your child, or be judged as unfit to raise a kid if you weren't upper middle class, or if you were single. It would all go hand in hand with my "mandatory steralization" plan.
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Post by Bez »

Far Rider wrote: Steph....



I like you a lot, but theres not an entire army on the face of this earth that could hold me down for a steralization procedure....:D


OUCH !:D
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Post by observer1 »

pantsonfire321@aol.com wrote: I asked before but nobody answered so again what if a woman is raped is she duty bound to complete the pregnancy .


I think you already know my answer, Bez.
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Post by Bez »

observer1 wrote: I think you already know my answer, Bez.


I didn't actually ask the question you answered OB !!
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Bez wrote: I didn't actually ask the question you answered OB !!


OOPS!! Err.. ahhh.. nevermind!! :o
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Post by Jives »

LilacDragon wrote: It seems to me rather a bit unfair that if a woman consents to having sex she must also consent to dieing or spending the rest of her life taking care of a child that may never be able to take care of itself,


Except, of course if they use birth control, then she's also only consenting to having a good time.

while all a man really consents to is a good time.


You are implying that men only have sex for fun. They never take it seriously, and it's never thought of as a responsible act by them. Nice stereotyping, Lilac.

Personally, I have never had sex with a single girl that I didn't want to raise children with. Moreover, I am acutely aware of my responsibilites to any child fathered in that act and I have the integrity to live up to that responsibility.

The words, "casual sex" are not in my vocabulary. I have a code of honor and so do many of the men I know. Please don't lump us all into the "sex-fiend-gigalo" category!

So it seems to me that final decisions on whether or not to carry a child to term should rest squarely with the woman.


Well now....how sexist is that? And I thought only men were chauvenists. The act of intercourse is a mutual responsibility and any children that come from that union are the responsibility of both parties. Just where do you get off taking my entire gender out of the equation? Obviously, you have a low opinion of fatherhood.

Mark my words, Lilac, if you go on with that presumption, someday you are going to lose the love of a good man. The upstanding kind of guys don't take it well being told that they have no say in the pregnancy that they had an equal partnership in starting. After all, it's their child too!
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Post by robinseggs »

Things are getting pretty crazy around here, but I just wanted to jump in and clarify some of my thoughts on this....

I think when you are talking about a rape victim who becomes pregnant, it is a situation where I believe an EARLY abortion should be allowed. By early I mean before 8 weeks gestation. A rape victim knows they've been raped and the possibility of pregnancy, therefore the procedure could be done that early and even earlier. Don't know about other states, but here in MO the "morning after" pill is legal and available. I truly don't believe these victims should have to carry the burden (yes the burden!) of pregnancy which will remind them for 10 months of the entire horrific ordeal. Lord knows, they will likely relive the trauma for the rest of their lives......

But when a teenager (or any age woman) gets pregnant by sheer carelessness (or even if the "condom broke"), then I don't agree with abortion. If this person dreads having a baby, I share some of the views of others on here like Accountable--she should HAVE the baby! Nobody said she had to keep it. There are many loving couples out there looking to adopt!

Now--all that said, as a mother of 3 children, we have seriously been thinking about having a 4th lately.....I am 36 years old and am now what OB-GYNS consider of "advanced maternal age"!!! There are risks we have to consider. On top of all this, one of my best friends, age 38 just found out the baby she is carrying has Down's Syndrome.....she was offered but never considered termination. I have a lot to think about.
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Post by Accountable »

pantsonfire321@aol.com wrote: I asked before but nobody answered so again what if a woman is raped is she duty bound to complete the pregnancy .
I am answering this post only because you requested that I do so. It's not consensual sex. That makes it far too gray (or grey) for any third party to have a pertinent opinion. It's a hypothetical situation that I can't fathom entering my life, and I choose not to address it unless it does.



I know that disappoints you, but all my posts in this thread have been about consensual sex.
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Post by pantsonfire321@aol.com »

You can only say it how it feels - thanks for answering .
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Post by LilacDragon »

Jives wrote: Except, of course if they use birth control, then she's also only consenting to having a good time.



You are implying that men only have sex for fun. They never take it seriously, and it's never thought of as a responsible act by them. Nice stereotyping, Lilac.

Personally, I have never had sex with a single girl that I didn't want to raise children with. Moreover, I am acutely aware of my responsibilites to any child fathered in that act and I have the integrity to live up to that responsibility.

The words, "casual sex" are not in my vocabulary. I have a code of honor and so do many of the men I know. Please don't lump us all into the "sex-fiend-gigalo" category!



Well now....how sexist is that? And I thought only men were chauvenists. The act of intercourse is a mutual responsibility and any children that come from that union are the responsibility of both parties. Just where do you get off taking my entire gender out of the equation? Obviously, you have a low opinion of fatherhood.

Mark my words, Lilac, if you go on with that presumption, someday you are going to lose the love of a good man. The upstanding kind of guys don't take it well being told that they have no say in the pregnancy that they had an equal partnership in starting. After all, it's their child too!


You are right, it was a pretty sexist, blanket statement.

Having admitted to my faults, I guess I should explain my thoughts just a bit more.

My ex-husband would have had a coronary had I suggested having an abortion when I was married to him. I am sure that he would have felt the same way about the life of the son that is 5 months younger then our daughter. And yet, after the divorce, he didn't want to pay child support and he hasn't seen the girls in several years. He showed no interest in talking to them until they turned 18, because then he wouldn't have to pay child support for them anymore. Well, if he had bothered to pay it before that is.

I know a few gentlemen, like yourself, who would feel morally obligated to take care of a child born from consentual sex, no matter what the cost or complications. I also know a few men who think that sex is a serious thing that shouldn't be taken lightly.

But I know so many more who think that sex is something that you have at the end of a date. The number of Deadbeat Dads in the U.S. is staggering. I doubt they gave much thought to the consequences of having sex. And if they did, they sure didn't care. The number of single woman on Welfare, also staggering.

As for losing the love of a good man because I think this way - I doubt it. We agreed after our son was born that he would be my last child and I had my tubes tied.
Sandi



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Post by robinseggs »

[QUOTE=LilacDragon]You are right, it was a pretty sexist, blanket statement.



My ex-husband would have had a coronary had I suggested having an abortion when I was married to him. I am sure that he would have felt the same way about the life of the son that is 5 months younger then our daughter.



I am completely confused...................how can you have son that you gave birth to, who is 5 months younger than your daughter?????????????????????????????
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Post by LilacDragon »

robinseggs wrote: [QUOTE=LilacDragon]You are right, it was a pretty sexist, blanket statement.



My ex-husband would have had a coronary had I suggested having an abortion when I was married to him. I am sure that he would have felt the same way about the life of the son that is 5 months younger then our daughter.



I am completely confused...................how can you have son that you gave birth to, who is 5 months younger than your daughter?????????????????????????????


I don't - his girlfriend did. MY son is 11 years younger then my daughter.
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Post by observer1 »

LilacDragon wrote: You are right, it was a pretty sexist, blanket statement.

Having admitted to my faults, I guess I should explain my thoughts just a bit more.

My ex-husband would have had a coronary had I suggested having an abortion when I was married to him. I am sure that he would have felt the same way about the life of the son that is 5 months younger then our daughter. And yet, after the divorce, he didn't want to pay child support and he hasn't seen the girls in several years. He showed no interest in talking to them until they turned 18, because then he wouldn't have to pay child support for them anymore. Well, if he had bothered to pay it before that is.

I know a few gentlemen, like yourself, who would feel morally obligated to take care of a child born from consentual sex, no matter what the cost or complications. I also know a few men who think that sex is a serious thing that shouldn't be taken lightly.

But I know so many more who think that sex is something that you have at the end of a date. The number of Deadbeat Dads in the U.S. is staggering. I doubt they gave much thought to the consequences of having sex. And if they did, they sure didn't care. The number of single woman on Welfare, also staggering.

As for losing the love of a good man because I think this way - I doubt it. We agreed after our son was born that he would be my last child and I had my tubes tied.


Lilac, I'm pretty much in your situation. When I found out I was pregnant with my daughter, my ex was so excited. But he never even went to find out with me, nor did he accompany me to my parents' house to tell them I was pregnant... out of wedlock. He didn't have to face any of it. He would stay out all night & come home the next afternoon. This continued throughout our marriage (we were married when I was 6 months pregnant, because I "wanted to do the right thing"). Only once did I ask him to pick our daughter up at daycare, because that time, he showed up DRUNK!! Then, believe it or not, I was the one reported to Children & Youth!!!

I was his built-in maid, baby-sitter, cheuffer (he didn't have a license), & bread-winner (he could never hold onto a job). I know you men are going to ask why didn't I leave him. You're right... but at 21, you're still in that fantasy world where you truly think you "can change him". Also, HE was the one who was so gung-ho over the whole pregnancy! As much as I LOVE my daughter, I considered other options. But as the time went on, I grew a special bond to that person inside me (I say person only during the second trimester). After she was born, the police picked him up for non-paid fines & he spent the first 6 months of her life in jail. We separated for a year after that, with him calling me constantly. We finally got back together because he'd been sober for 6 months & was sweet as pie. Even held a regular job.

I left him after he started drinking again, quit a good job he'd gotten just because he didn't want to work there (I never had a choice if or where I wanted to work!), & hit me once.

Long story short, we've been apart for 14 years now. My daughter is 18. He only paid his child support when he had a girlfriend with kids, who would pay it for him or get on him about it. He's had 16 warrants, rarely shows up for his hearings, & I haven't seen a payment for over a year. He's $10,000 in arrearages. He's in jail right now, but do you think our wonderful "system" is deducting the support from his wages (he's on work release)?? HE** NO!! Also, Domestic Relations never even lifted a finger to try to find him & pick him up. He had the last warrant out for almost a year!!

The other day, my daughter told me that her dad told her that they still think she's in school & he has to keep paying. The audacity of this low-life! Of course, he made her feel bad, so SHE went into Domestics & told them she wasn't in school anymore!!! I told her I'd already contacted them, but have to take a day off of work to actually take care of it. HE doesn't pay, but wants me hurry to end the process!!! HE'S SCUM!!!

This, by the way, is the usual story, not just mine.
Jives
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Post by Jives »

Whew! Well thank you for that retraction / codification, Lilac.:o

As for your worthless ex-husband. It's guys like that who give the good men a bad name. Personally, my name for deadbeat dads is.....rat.

And you are completely right about the number of deadbeat dads rising, along with the number of single mothers.

I blame the media and hollywood for glorifying casual sex, and rap music for it's blatant promotion of sex-as-a-hobby.:mad:

Anastrophe always disagrees with me when I promote the idea that seeing all this casual sex iand desensitizing violence on TV and in the movies and music is eroding our national sense of values. He says it doesn't have an impact on people.

I say he's wrong.:cool:
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
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LilacDragon
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Post by LilacDragon »

My younger daughter, though 18, is still in school. It took a year and a half to catch up with my ex, but he is now paying child support regularly as it is deducted from his retirement check. (He is retired military.) The problem with this is - the part of his retirement check they are taking for child support should be mine anyway as I am entitled to that according to my divorce decree! And I have to pay a lawyer to get anything else out of him!

I know Jives is going to really jump on me for this but I honestly think that until there are MORE women in government, men will continue to get away with not taking care of their children.
Sandi



observer1
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Post by observer1 »

LilacDragon wrote: My younger daughter, though 18, is still in school. It took a year and a half to catch up with my ex, but he is now paying child support regularly as it is deducted from his retirement check. (He is retired military.) The problem with this is - the part of his retirement check they are taking for child support should be mine anyway as I am entitled to that according to my divorce decree! And I have to pay a lawyer to get anything else out of him!

I know Jives is going to really jump on me for this but I honestly think that until there are MORE women in government, men will continue to get away with not taking care of their children.


I have to agree Lilac. I know this isn't ALL men. And I did try to get away from him before I got pregnant, but he wouldn't leave me alone, seriously.

My ex doesn't pay his taxes, so he doesn't get a return. He also has no retirement, since he's "self-employed". She'll get nothing from him. He's just so good at twisting things around & making me look like the bad guy. He even went as far as to tell her I wouldn't allow him to see or speak with her when she was younger!!! He NEVER BOTHERED!!!!! Not for Christmas, her birthday, NOTHING!!
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LilacDragon
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Post by LilacDragon »

Jives wrote: Whew! Well thank you for that retraction / codification, Lilac.:o

As for your worthless ex-husband. It's guys like that who give the good men a bad name. Personally, my name for deadbeat dads is.....rat.

And you are completely right about the number of deadbeat dads rising, along with the number of single mothers.

I blame the media and hollywood for glorifying casual sex, and rap music for it's blatant promotion of sex-as-a-hobby.:mad:

Anastrophe always disagrees with me when I promote the idea that seeing all this casual sex iand desensitizing violence on TV and in the movies and music is eroding our national sense of values. He says it doesn't have an impact on people.

I say he's wrong.:cool:


How could it not impact our young people!?! In the quest for the almighty dollar so many children are being raised in our schools with no one home that gives a damn about what they do after school!

I am a pretty relaxed mom. My kids watch t.v., movies and listen to the radio. My daughter loves Brittany Spears (where is the vomitting smiley when you need it) and my son loves all kinds of video games. BUT - I take my responsiblity to teach my children right from wrong very seriously. My 7 year old is well aware that violence is NOT the answer even if it looks like it on t.v. My daughter is not sexually active, doesn't do drugs and has great morals. Because I took the time to teach them instead of letting her get them from a t.v. show.
Sandi



Jives
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Post by Jives »

LilacDragon wrote: I know Jives is going to really jump on me for this but I honestly think that until there are MORE women in government, men will continue to get away with not taking care of their children.


Not at all! I know your idea would probably help....but it's not the root cause of this problem.

Ask yourself, just why are men shirking their parental responsibilities in ever growing numbers? It was never that way in the past.

Unless we find the cause of that, all the enforcement in the world won't help.:o
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Jives
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Post by Jives »

LilacDragon wrote: My 7 year old is well aware that violence is NOT the answer even if it looks like it on t.v. My daughter is not sexually active, doesn't do drugs and has great morals. Because I took the time to teach them instead of letting her get them from a t.v. show.


Bravo!:D
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
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LilacDragon
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Post by LilacDragon »

observer1 wrote: I have to agree Lilac. I know this isn't ALL men. And I did try to get away from him before I got pregnant, but he wouldn't leave me alone, seriously.

My ex doesn't pay his taxes, so he doesn't get a return. He also has no retirement, since he's "self-employed". She'll get nothing from him. He's just so good at twisting things around & making me look like the bad guy. He even went as far as to tell her I wouldn't allow him to see or speak with her when she was younger!!! He NEVER BOTHERED!!!!! Not for Christmas, her birthday, NOTHING!!


Let's continue this here...http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showt ... post149886
Sandi



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