George Tiller shot.

Chockygirl
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Post by Chockygirl »

YZGI;1198040 wrote: I consider myself a Christian.( although not real active, if truth were known

I am anti-abortion, although I do not believe it is my god given right to deny others their choices, philosophies or moral standards.

The assassination of George Tiller was murder. No ifs, ands or buts about it. No philosophy arguments for or against. I think everyone is against murder or at least should be.

I am not sure when life begins, I do know Tillers life had begun, I know he had a family that he loved and that loved him. So if you asked me which is worst. The killing of Tiller or his abortions? I would definitely say it was the killing of Tiller.

The main problem I have with some people whether they be anti or pro on the abortion issue is that they all think they have a right to tell me how to think and tell others what to do with their very own bodies. Who are we (especially being a man) to tell another person what is right or wrong for them?

Oh,what a breath of fresh air you are!

How refreshing to read that someone who espouses to be a Christian,can also see and respect the views of others who don't agree with the same philosophy as themselves.

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Post by Chockygirl »

hoppy;1197907 wrote: And the doc was supposedly a christian but made a living killing babies. So, a christian assasin kills a christian baby killer.


That's hypocritical.

If you don't condone what you see as murder,then how can you justify this subsequent murder?
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Post by hoppy »

Chockygirl;1198168 wrote:

That's hypocritical.

If you don't condone what you see as murder,then how can you justify this subsequent murder?


Don't matter. When we all get done hashing this out, no one will change their minds about any of it. And, I'll sleep just fine tonight knowing that sob got his.
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Post by hoppy »

I have very strong feelings about abortion simply because of an unwanted pregnancy. Whenever I attend get togethers in my family, I see two people who would not be there had my parents and X wife not stepped up to the plate and agreed to raise the kid if the mother will have it. As a result, I have a beautiful and smart granddaughter thanks to my x wife and other kin. And, I have a younger brother thanks to my mom and dad. He was an unwanted pregnancy by an older brother's girlfriend.

I talk to them and they tell me about how their life is going and all. It hurts me to think that they could have been killed for convenience sake. That's why abortion disgusts me.
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Post by Chockygirl »

hoppy;1198199 wrote: Don't matter. When we all get done hashing this out, no one will change their minds about any of it. And, I'll sleep just fine tonight knowing that sob got his.

The women came to him and he performed a service,didn't he?

I doubt that he forced anyone into doing something that they didn't want to do.

Would you sleep better if women had to resort to the backyard abortions of the 'bad ol' days'-and often death-if safe terminations were not available?
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Post by Victoria »

YZGI;1198040 wrote: I consider myself a Christian.( although not real active, if truth were known

I am anti-abortion, although I do not believe it is my god given right to deny others their choices, philosophies or moral standards.

The assassination of George Tiller was murder. No ifs, ands or buts about it. No philosophy arguments for or against. I think everyone is against murder or at least should be.

I am not sure when life begins, I do know Tillers life had begun, I know he had a family that he loved and that loved him. So if you asked me which is worst. The killing of Tiller or his abortions? I would definitely say it was the killing of Tiller.

The main problem I have with some people whether they be anti or pro on the abortion issue is that they all think they have a right to tell me how to think and tell others what to do with their very own bodies. Who are we (especially being a man) to tell another person what is right or wrong for them?


Well said.:yh_clap

I do not believe in abortion either but feel that it is the choice and the right of the individual. Murder of a living breathing person is quite different.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Bill Sikes;1198142 wrote: Originally Posted by Bill Sikes

Rubbish. Lon asked "Which of Man's Law was Tiller breaking?", not "Which US law...".



I assume you are referring to abortion. It's illegal for any reason at all in some countries, and in others is allowable only in limited cases - didn't you know?


Now you're just being deliberately obtuse - enjoy :-6
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

hoppy;1198199 wrote: Don't matter. When we all get done hashing this out, no one will change their minds about any of it. And, I'll sleep just fine tonight knowing that sob got his.


So you do condone murder - how very un-Christian of you!
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Post by gmc »

Bill Sikes;1198098 wrote: Interesting - back on the old soap box, eh? Oh well. Substitute the word "Muslim" for "Christian", or even substitute "Atheists", or even "Agnostics", and your message above still stands, does it not.


Muslim perhaps but generally speaking atheists and agnostics don't commit atrocities because they have a compelling need to punish those that don't share their belief in a particular god or because they do not follow their particular interpretation of what god means. You have to be religious to justify kill someone for their own salvation.

posted by hoppy

Don't matter. When we all get done hashing this out, no one will change their minds about any of it. And, I'll sleep just fine tonight knowing that sob got his.


Essentially you are condoning religious terrorism because it suits the way you'd like things to be. The justification for the act act is no different from the taliban throwing acid in girls faces because they shouldn't be going to school. No doubt some muslims think they ask for it as well for defying god's law.

posted by hoppy

I have very strong feelings about abortion simply because of an unwanted pregnancy. Whenever I attend get togethers in my family, I see two people who would not be there had my parents and X wife not stepped up to the plate and agreed to raise the kid if the mother will have it. As a result, I have a beautiful and smart granddaughter thanks to my x wife and other kin. And, I have a younger brother thanks to my mom and dad. He was an unwanted pregnancy by an older brother's girlfriend.

I talk to them and they tell me about how their life is going and all. It hurts me to think that they could have been killed for convenience sake. That's why abortion disgusts me.




So why weren't they using contraceptives in the first place so the moral dilemma wouldn't have happened? It's a salient fact that teenage pregnancies are highest in countries that have a prurient attitude to sex that manifests itself in the religious trying to stop people having it rather than just accepting the fact that teenagers will have sex and letting the schools and parents give proper sex education and allowing free access to contraceptives. Sex education empowers the girls, ignorance make them vulnerable.
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Post by Bill Sikes »

Bryn Mawr;1198231 wrote: Now you're just being deliberately obtuse - enjoy : -6


No, I was answering what I thought you asked. If you can phrase a proper question, I will try to answer it, too.
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Post by Accountable »

Chockygirl;1198226 wrote:



Would you sleep better if women had to resort to the backyard abortions of the 'bad ol' days'-and often death-if safe terminations were not available?
Women never have to resort to any abortions at all. At its coldest and most clinical, abortion is elective surgery.



What the doc did was the planned murder of a human being. What his killer did was the planned murder of a human being. The only difference lies in legal semantics.



The guy that shot the doctor did so for justifiable reasons, in his mind, but it was murder nonetheless. I'd be really disappointed if he tried to avoid his responsibility by pleading not guilty.
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Post by Bill Sikes »

gmc;1198254 wrote: You have to be religious to justify kill someone for their own salvation.


Is that what whoever offed Mr. Tiller claims to have done?



gmc;1198254 wrote: It's a salient fact that teenage pregnancies are highest in countries that have a prurient attitude to sex that manifests itself in the religious trying to stop people having it rather than just accepting the fact that teenagers will have sex and letting the schools and parents give proper sex education and allowing free access to contraceptives.


Britain was far more religious in general last century, and had a far more conservative attitude to sex education, and free access to contraceptives was unheard of for the greater part of it. What was the pregnancy rate for young teenagers in those decades? More or fewer per 1,000?
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Post by Chockygirl »

Accountable;1198274 wrote: Women never have to resort to any abortions at all. At its coldest and most clinical, abortion is elective surgery.





*SIGH*

Women will always be judged by statements like that.

I'm wondering where were you in the not too distant past when an unmarried women would have lost her job because of pregnancy?

Would you have cared for her and her child if her family had disowned her?

Or,perhaps an unplanned pregnancy in a family where there are already too many children, or the main income earner has unexpectantly lost their job?

Or rape:should a woman be forced to carry a child that was conceived in brutality,or by a member of her own family?

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Post by Bill Sikes »

Chockygirl;1198279 wrote: B]FONT="Century Gothic"]SIZE="3"]COLOR="DarkOrchid"]

*SIGH*

Or,perhaps an unplanned pregnancy in a family where there are already too many children


An answer might be to take one or two of the children outside and shoot them dead, mightn't it?

Some planning in permenant sterilisation might be a better bet, though.
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Post by Chockygirl »

gmc;1198254 wrote:

So why weren't they using contraceptives in the first place so the moral dilemma wouldn't have happened? It's a salient fact that teenage pregnancies are highest in countries that have a prurient attitude to sex that manifests itself in the religious trying to stop people having it rather than just accepting the fact that teenagers will have sex and letting the schools and parents give proper sex education and allowing free access to contraceptives. Sex education empowers the girls, ignorance make them vulnerable.

I've often wondered if males could become pregnant if the status quo would change and sex education and contraception would be freely available?
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Post by Chockygirl »

Bill Sikes;1198282 wrote: An answer might be to take one or two of the children outside and shoot them dead, mightn't it?

Some planning in permenant sterilisation might be a better bet, though.




Unless you're a strict Catholic of course,and then any form of contraception is banned.:rolleyes:
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Post by hoppy »

Chockygirl;1198226 wrote:

The women came to him and he performed a service,didn't he?

I doubt that he forced anyone into doing something that they didn't want to do.

Would you sleep better if women had to resort to the backyard abortions of the 'bad ol' days'-and often death-if safe terminations were not available?


I'd sleep better if women just had the brat and adopted it out. Why don't that novel idea enter into the picture?
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Post by Chockygirl »

hoppy;1198291 wrote: I'd sleep better if women just had the brat and adopted it out. Why don't that novel idea enter into the picture?

If you could give birth is that what you would do?
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Post by hoppy »

gmc;1198254 wrote: Muslim perhaps but generally speaking atheists and agnostics don't commit atrocities because they have a compelling need to punish those that don't share their belief in a particular god or because they do not follow their particular interpretation of what god means. You have to be religious to justify kill someone for their own salvation.

posted by hoppy



Essentially you are condoning religious terrorism because it suits the way you'd like things to be. The justification for the act act is no different from the taliban throwing acid in girls faces because they shouldn't be going to school. No doubt some muslims think they ask for it as well for defying god's law.

posted by hoppy



So why weren't they using contraceptives in the first place so the moral dilemma wouldn't have happened? It's a salient fact that teenage pregnancies are highest in countries that have a prurient attitude to sex that manifests itself in the religious trying to stop people having it rather than just accepting the fact that teenagers will have sex and letting the schools and parents give proper sex education and allowing free access to contraceptives. Sex education empowers the girls, ignorance make them vulnerable.


Why weren't they using contraceptives? Well, I'd ask my older brother if I could but he was killed in 'nam. I'd ask the mom but no one knows where she is now. I asked my son and he said it was a heat of the moment thing.

What is that posted by Hoppy on those above quotes? I didn't post any of that.
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Post by hoppy »

Chockygirl;1198292 wrote:

If you could give birth is that what you would do?


First, I'd do all I could to make sure no "accidents" happened. If one did, I'd have the brat. My family, being the kind of people they are, would have made the kid one of the clan. That's your answer to what I would have done. NEVER, would I have had the kid killed.
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Post by Chockygirl »



Hoppy,I enjoy a really good discussion,so thanks for hangin' in there and giving me your opinions.

I trained as a social worker and for some years,I worked with abused children.

I can't even begin to tell you what some parents do to their children,especially the unwanted ones.:mad:

Every child that is conceived should be loved,but sadly, that is often not the case.

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Post by gmc »

Bill Sikes;1198276]Is that what whoever offed Mr. Tiller claims to have done?




Haven't a clue, wouldn't surprise me though-either that or god told him to do it.



posted by bill sikes

Britain was far more religious in general last century, and had a far more conservative attitude to sex education, and free access to contraceptives was unheard of for the greater part of it. What was the pregnancy rate for young teenagers in those decades? More or fewer per 1,000?


It's hard to say just as it's hard to quantify the number of back street abortions there were or how many women died while having them. Also in the more religious times single women that became pregnant also became social pariahs, lost their jobs (if they had one) and had no option but to give up their children for adoption-there are countless heart-rending stories or women put in that position of forced adoption because society preferred to punish them and their children for their sins and drive home how worthless they were- some ended up in mental institutions as feeble minded-there were still survivors in mental institutions as late as the 60's and 70's so institutionalised they couldn't cope on their own.

In the 19th century women, especially if they were married had no rights, the husband controlled everything and they had no rights to their own property and had few rights when it came to their own children- come to that childhood prostitution was quite common if you really think the last century (I suspect you are thinking of the 19th century rather than the 20th) it was somehow a golden age of moral propriety because we seemed more religious you are kidding yourself.

In the 60's it was the number of women dying after back street abortions caused many doctors to campaign for making it legal in the UK. It wasn't the introduction of contraceptives that made it more prevalent rather society changed changed so that such things could be talked about and brought out on to the open rather than pretending it didn't happen.
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Post by YZGI »

hoppy;1198144 wrote: I believe Tiller violated a few laws concerning getting the opinion of at least two other docs as required in some places. More will come out in the next few days.
He was acquitted of these charges. I live in the town he practiced and he was scrutinized unmercifully on following the letter of the law.
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Post by Lon »

hoppy;1198291 wrote: I'd sleep better if women just had the brat and adopted it out. Why don't that novel idea enter into the picture?




Brat? Is it brat if unwanted and a child if wanted?
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Post by Lon »

I have often wondered if the thinking on abortion, pro or con, would be different if the fetus looked more like a blob or circle instead of clearly defined fingers, eyes, nose etc. My point is that their is a degree of emotionalism that affects some peoples thinking. Were there as many anti abortion people prior to such pictures being made possible? It sort of like some folks will not eat lamb because of the cute and cuddly pictures they see.
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Post by hoppy »

Lon;1198342 wrote: Brat? Is it brat if unwanted and a child if wanted?


Hi Lon. First, I want to apologize for being too outspoken earlier. As I explained, I have very strong feelings about abortion as do others here. Second, all kids are brats, ain't they?:wah:
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Post by Lon »

hoppy;1198348 wrote: Hi Lon. First, I want to apologize for being too outspoken earlier. As I explained, I have very strong feelings about abortion as do others here. Second, all kids are brats, ain't they?:wah:


Apology accepted, but your use of the term BRAT seems to indicate less concern for the fetus and it's potential than for your hatred of those that perrform abortions.
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Post by Lon »

Written by SHANNYA MOORE----May 31, 2009



Christian Fundamentalist Terrorism.

It's shocking to write. But it's time to start calling it what it is.

When Jim D. Adkisson walked into the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church with 76 rounds and a shot-gun, he killed 2 people and was charged with murder. His motive was "he hated the liberal movement" and was upset with "liberals in general as well as gays." He should have been charged with terrorism.

Sunday George Tiller, a Wichita doctor, was killed INSIDE the lobby of his Wichita church. Reformation Lutheran Church became a crime scene; fundamentalist terrorism.

The right wing media hacks make targets of the left. The fundamentalist reverends blather their intolerance of other Americans. Their marriages are in jeopardy if the GLBT community can walk down an aisle. Their children are going to be molested if you have to rent to a same sex couple. Fear...fear...fear the queer.

Bill O'Reilly's hit piece on Dr. Tiller is a training tape for Christian Fundamentalist Terrorists. Never did he ask the woman interviewed how she, as a 13 year old, got pregnant, who was the father, or where her parents were when she underwent an abortion at Dr. Tiller's clinic. I'm sure O'Reilly's drivel will insist on personal accountability for the murderer. I'm sure he won't be in line for any "accountability" for calling the doctor "Tiller the baby-killer" or his clinic a "death mill."

Are anti-choice groups celebrating today? An abortion doctor is dead so women won't have unwanted pregnancies!

The "war on terror" needs to include domestic religious, fundamentalist .
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Post by Bill Sikes »

gmc;1198331 wrote: I suspect you are thinking of the 19th century rather than the 20th


No, I was specifically thinking of the C. 20th. - last century.
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Post by Bill Sikes »

gmc;1198331 wrote: In the 60's it was the number of women dying after back street abortions caused many doctors to campaign for making it legal in the UK.


Can you tell me how many there were? I shall be very interested.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Bill Sikes;1198264 wrote: No, I was answering what I thought you asked. If you can phrase a proper question, I will try to answer it, too.


I asked no question, I made a point in words of one syllable.

When you said that man's law depends on the viewpoint of the observer I disagreed, the law that applies to the case is dependant on the location of the crime. As the murder was committed in the USA the laws that were broken were the laws of the USA, not the laws of the UK because that was where you happened to be when you heard about it.



As a follow up to :-

Bryn Mawr wrote: I thought that would be obvious. When you are discussing whether a person has broken the law, where the offence takes place is fundamental to determining the answer. To judge the question using British law would be an irrelevance as Tiller was an American in America therefore the question should be answered using American law


a reply of :-

Bill Sikes wrote: I assume you are referring to abortion. It's illegal for any reason at all in some countries, and in others is allowable only in limited cases - didn't you know?


is playing mind games at its worst. As I said, enjoy, it is not a game I wish to play.
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Post by Bill Sikes »

Bryn Mawr;1198383 wrote: When you said that man's law depends on the viewpoint of the observer I disagreed, the law that applies to the case is dependant on the location of the crime. As the murder was committed in the USA the laws that were broken were the laws of the USA, not the laws of the UK because that was where you happened to be when you heard about it.


But this is not true. One can do something that constitutes an offence "at home" which is not an offence wherever it happens to be comitted "away", and be prosecuted "at home" for it.

As for the rest, "mind games" and so on, I do not understand what you mean. Never mind.
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Post by gmc »

Bill Sikes;1198372 wrote: No, I was specifically thinking of the C. 20th. - last century.


In that case ww1 the depression and ww2 effectively destroyed any claim to moral superiority the establishment might have had and people were no longer prepared to accept their place in society and accept the right of anyone to tell them what is right and wrong and especially when and by whom they could have children. The churches lost their moral authority when they proved themselves more than willing to condone war and bloodshed in the name of patriotism.

One other factor was the change in status for women from being wholly dependant on men to being economically independent from them. No longer where they trapped, the rise in the divorce rate (divorce had always been an option if you had enough money) is due as much to that economic independence as it is to any change in the law making it easier. It's the same with having children out of wedlock-if you can support a child on your own you don't have to accept being forced to put it up for adoption or accept the strictures of society. With the arrival of the pill and contraceptives being more readily available ( i vaguely remember the stooshie when supermarkets started selling condoms openly) the number of unwanted pregnancies actually went down and with the economic choice to keep the baby the number of babies up for adoption also went down.

BBC News | UK | History of adoption and fostering

It's hard to get accurate figures on teenage pregnancy for the early part of the century as there was so much stigma attached the reality was hidden away and girls sent away to have their children so no one could find out what had happened. Highly visible standards of public morality usually hides much private misery. The drop in the number of babies available for adoption probably gives a good hint. We think there is more teenage pregnancy now because we don't pretend it doesn't happen. Just as some think there is more child abuse because it's no longer not talked about.

As to how many woman died through back street abortions there are plenty of statistics on the subject. You just need tom lookYou might find this of interest-it's written by the wife of David steel whose private members bill became the 1967 abortion act.

Acting to eradicate the dangers posed by backstreet abortions - Selkirk Today

or this

The back-street butchers

But to them, they might have lost their lives if they had had the baby. Socially and economically, an illegitimate pregnancy, until very recently, was about the worst misfortune that could occur to a woman."


Just remember it was the religious that were most likely to condemn the unwed mother and the pregnant teen-and it still is.



posted by hoppy

Why weren't they using contraceptives? Well, I'd ask my older brother if I could but he was killed in 'nam. I'd ask the mom but no one knows where she is now. I asked my son and he said it was a heat of the moment thing.

What is that posted by Hoppy on those above quotes? I didn't post any of that.




Sorry missed this earlier. You did post those quotes-although admittedly the first one had been in response to something chockygirl said. I didn't mean to offend I was just curious. The US and UK have a common problem-everybody talks about sex but for some reason proper sex education and how to use contraceptives seem to be taboo. In regard to abortion it is IMP up to the woman to have the right to choose.

I have no time for religious terrorism. You seem to approve of this killers action-in other words you seem to be in favour of terrorism when you think the cause is right.
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Post by Chockygirl »



I'm wondering what those who are against abortion under any circumstances would think of this case?

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Post by Kathy Ellen »

I think that's it awful that this man has been murdered:mad: If abortion is legal in an area, then no one has the right to harass or hurt anyone who works or visits the abortion clinic.
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Post by Kathy Ellen »

Chockygirl;1198540 wrote:

I'm wondering what those who are against abortion under any circumstances would think of this case?






That's a horrible story Chocky. I teach 9 year olds. They are little children. Why should they be burdened with pregnancy at this young age. Their lives are destroyed as it is....why make it worse by making the child go through with the pregnancy:thinking:
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Post by Bill Sikes »

gmc;1198520 wrote: It's hard to get accurate figures on teenage pregnancy for the early part of the century


So you don't know? Neither do I - however. it would be interesting to find out the bare unadorned facts.
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Post by Chockygirl »

Kathy Ellen;1198560 wrote: That's a horrible story Chocky. I teach 9 year olds. They are little children. Why should they be burdened with pregnancy at this young age. Their lives are destroyed as it is....why make it worse by making the child go through with the pregnancy:thinking:

Yes,Kathy,a horrible story,but one that is replicated many times throughout the world.

Not only was this child forcibly made pregnant,but the church thought it was better to sacrifice her life rather than the unborn children.:mad:
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Chockygirl;1198658 wrote:

Yes,Kathy,a horrible story,but one that is replicated many times throughout the world.

Not only was this child forcibly made pregnant,but the church thought it was better to sacrifice her life rather than the unborn children.:mad:


Do you recall the explosions of the chemical plant in Seveso and the Church's absolute refusal to allow any of the women affected to seek termination?

If the deformed and mutilated children born as a result were the will of God then I want no part of the religion involved.
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Post by Chockygirl »

Bryn Mawr;1198666 wrote: Do you recall the explosions of the chemical plant in Seveso and the Church's absolute refusal to allow any of the women affected to seek termination?

If the deformed and mutilated children born as a result were the will of God then I want no part of the religion involved.

I don't really remember the episode when it happened,but I've since read many articles about how the people of the area were affected,and the many deformed children who were born as a result of the chemicals.

This is only one small part of why I would never belong to an organised religion of any kind.

I'm reminded also of the current pope lecturing the folk in Africa-a country decimated by the ravages of Aids,and the subsequent loss of entire generations-and telling them that condoms were against the teachings of God.

I was absolutely stunned that someone in such an elevated position of trust,would act so irresponsibly.:mad:
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Post by Kathy Ellen »

Bryn Mawr;1198666 wrote: Do you recall the explosions of the chemical plant in Seveso and the Church's absolute refusal to allow any of the women affected to seek termination?



If the deformed and mutilated children born as a result were the will of God then I want no part of the religion involved.


Hello Bryn and Chockie...



I do know about the explosion, but not the aftermath... Please post a link so I can enlighten myself. Thanks:-6
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Post by hoppy »

Chockygirl;1198540 wrote:

I'm wondering what those who are against abortion under any circumstances would think of this case?




I'm wondering if it's even true.
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Post by hoppy »

Kathy Ellen;1198555 wrote: I think that's it awful that this man has been murdered:mad: If abortion is legal in an area, then no one has the right to harass or hurt anyone who works or visits the abortion clinic.


If abortion is legal, then let's kill babies without hesitation. But if homosexual sex acts and marriage is illegal, we must waste no time changing the laws. And you dare not kill those serial murderers on death row. Sorry, but I can't get a handle on this new liberal society.:mad:
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Post by Kathy Ellen »

Chockygirl;1198674 wrote:

I don't really remember the episode when it happened,but I've since read many articles about how the people of the area were affected,and the many deformed children who were born as a result of the chemicals.



This is only one small part of why I would never belong to an organised religion of any kind.



I'm reminded also of the current pope lecturing the folk in Africa-a country decimated by the ravages of Aids,and the subsequent loss of entire generations-and telling them that condoms were against the teachings of God.

I was absolutely stunned that someone in such an elevated position of trust,would act so irresponsibly.:mad:


I think that we who live in a free and easy society do not understand what other nations go through with living in poverty. People just try to survive.



Who are we to judge others when we have so much and they have so little...and assume that we know what they're going through:confused:



Who are we to judge whether one should have an abortion or not:confused:
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Kathy Ellen
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Post by Kathy Ellen »

hoppy;1198682 wrote: If abortion is legal, then let's kill babies without hesitation. But if homosexual sex acts and marriage is illegal, we must waste no time changing the laws. And you dare not kill those serial murderers on death row. Sorry, but I can't get a handle on this new liberal society.:mad:


I'm sorry Hoppy that we disagree, but i do think that a woman has the right to choose if she wants to have the baby or not.
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Post by Chockygirl »

hoppy;1198678 wrote: I'm wondering if it's even true.

What the fact that an underage child was raped and made pregnant?

Or,that the Catholic church deemed the life of the unborn as more important than the mother?

I've worked with children who have been raped by a family member,some as young as 3-4:mad: and others around 12ish who have ended up pregnant.

Thankfully,the church wasn't allowed to interfere with the decisions made for the welfare of the pregnant children.

And,anecdotal stories amongst friends and aquaintances have left me with no doubt that the Catholic church places the life of the unborn ahead of the mother.:mad:
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Post by Bill Sikes »

Bryn Mawr;1198666 wrote: Do you recall the explosions of the chemical plant in Seveso and the Church's absolute refusal to allow any of the women affected to seek termination?


No. Please add some further information regarding these matters.



Bryn Mawr;1198666 wrote: If the deformed and mutilated children born as a result were the will of God then I want no part of the religion involved.


Interesting. How many "deformed and mutilated children" were born (see request for further info. above) as a result, and what were their various deformations and mutilations? Also, what about people born who are "abnormal" for "ordinary" reasons? Those of different shape, or size, or with various bodily or mental shortcomings? Would you "off" them too, like the ones you implicitly advocate "offing" above due to their putative deformities as a result of chemical contamination?
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Post by hoppy »

Chockygirl;1198689 wrote:

What the fact that an underage child was raped and made pregnant?

Or,that the Catholic church deemed the life of the unborn as more important than the mother?

I've worked with children who have been raped by a family member,some as young as 3-4:mad: and others around 12ish who have ended up pregnant.

Thankfully,the church wasn't allowed to interfere with the decisions made for the welfare of the pregnant children.

And,anecdotal stories amongst friends and aquaintances have left me with no doubt that the Catholic church places the life of the unborn ahead of the mother.:mad:


That a 9 year old would be pregnant. What's next, 5 year old mothers?
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Post by Kathy Ellen »

hoppy;1198697 wrote: That a 9 year old would be pregnant. What's next, 5 year old mothers?


Hoppy,



Please read back. This 9 year old child was raped by her stepfather.:mad:
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Post by hoppy »

Kathy Ellen;1198699 wrote: Hoppy,



Please read back. This 9 year old child was raped by her stepfather.:mad:


So, lets kill her. she's only a few years older than her babies will be if aborted. Three birds, one abortion, sort of. Hey, makes as much sense to me as killing a baby. Damn, I didn't think there were so many child haters on this board.

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