Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

A Karenina
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by A Karenina »

kalanu wrote: He had unprotected sex?



One would think that a man knows what happens when he lies with a woman, and he doesn't even have to be too smart.



Too many men think that birth control is the responsibility of the woman. They can walk away if 'something' happens and are for the most part not straddled with their kid. It's an inherent flaw in the male psyche and well-thought-out with their other brain.
I can't find where he says he had unprotected sex.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.

Aristotle
Jives
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by Jives »

A Karenina wrote: I don't understand this at all. Jives' girlfriend got an abortion without telling him - so how did he do wrong? :-3


;) Thanks for that vote of support AK. BTW.....I married that girl, even though she had aborted the baby. I always intended to, or I wouldn't have "lain" with her.

Unfortunately, that marriage only lasted 6 months, I found her "lying" with someone else.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
A Karenina
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by A Karenina »

Jives wrote: ;) Thanks for that vote of support AK. BTW.....I married that girl, even though she had aborted the baby. I always intended to, or I wouldn't have "lain" with her.



Unfortunately, that marriage only lasted 6 months, I found her "lying" with someone else.
I know. (sad smile) You've more than earned your happy ending.

You are an exceptional person, Jives and I'm happy to know you.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.

Aristotle
Jives
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by Jives »

oh...and Koan....don't worry about the respect. It would take a heck of a lot more than that for me to lose respect for you. Life's hard, and we all struggle through the best we can. We all make decisions everyday that profoundly affect our lives, some are amazingly good, some outstandingly bad. Like you said, and it appplies to us all, "I had my reasons."

People should really be careful of casting aspersions for any decision anyone else makes. You can bet they've make a few doozies of their own.

Or to quote a great man, "He who casts the first stone..."

A friend of mine often laments his rebellious youth, I tell him, "We grew up the best we could, in a lost decade, with little or no supervision. I have no regrets. Life's not lived that way."
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Paula
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by Paula »

That is terrible, i have 2 little grand-daughters i plan not to view such a movie?I have no concern for pro-choice or pro-abortion, it is a "private" matter..what draws one to these concerns! :yh_monkey
Everyone has these on their face? TULIPS.
A Karenina
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by A Karenina »

kalanu wrote: No?



Perhaps he will tell you what kind of sex gets a woman pregnant, or

what kind of protection he used to avoid it!

Yes, I know that protection is not 100%. Best not to have any sex at all, eh?
I've tried to politely point out that you are jumping to conclusions and judging someone you don't even know. Why was their choice of birth control his responsibility - wouldn't it be theirs, together? Same as their choice to have sex, or not.



Considering your mindset, I've no interest in continuing conversation with you.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.

Aristotle
Jives
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by Jives »

Awww,.....see? These threads always cause hard feelings. Perhaps I can elaborate and calm. Both she and I had lived together all through High School. I had a job when I was fifteen, bought my own car and was puling down straight A's, so my parents allowed me to get my own apartment.

We lived together for three years, it was apparent to both of us that we would marry as soon as I comleted college and was stable. She never expressed an interest in college and instead went straight to the working world.

We loved and supported each other....for years. So don't think it was a spur of the moment fling. When I went away to boot camp, she was already pregnant. I'm not sure how that happened, since she had been on the pill for years. (We were very mature for our age, think about it...cars, apartment, jobs....all before 18.)

She decided then, while I was gone to have the abortion. She later told me that she was afraid and alone. Afraid that (somehow) the baby would change our relationship, or ruin my career as a pilot. Both of those ideas were silly, of course. But being young and alone, I'm sure that the strain was immense on her.

If she had told me about the baby, of course I would have been delighted. Nothing would have changed, but I never got the chance to make that decision.

We did get married, but the marriage fell apart..not because of anything arising from this situation. She just couldn't leave her hometown. She always said she wanted to see the world, but dreaming that and doing it are two entirely different things.

OK, Maybe we should have married earlier, but seeing the eventual outcome...maybe not.

So...I guess you could cast blame, or shake fingers, but honestly, we were in a loving relationship and things just went wrong. Life's like that sometimes.

After that, I went into the Air Force and later into corporate society.



I never married again until I was 34.

(She's not able to have children BTW.)
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
A Karenina
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by A Karenina »

Jives wrote: Awww,.....see? These threads always cause hard feelings. Perhaps I can elaborate and calm. Both she and I had lived together all through High School. I had a job when I was fifteen, bought my own car and was puling down straight A's, so my parents allowed me to get my own apartment.



We lived together for three years, it was apparent to both of us that we would marry as soon as I comleted college and was stable. She never expressed an interest in college and instead went straight to the working world.



We loved and supported each other....for years. So don't think it was a spur of the moment fling. When I went away to boot camp, she was already pregnant. I'm not sure how that happened, since she had been on the pill for years. (We were very mature for our age, think about it...cars, apartment, jobs....all before 18.)



She decided then, while I was gone to have the abortion. She later told me that she was afraid and alone. Afraid that (somehow) the baby would change our relationship, or ruin my career as a pilot. Both of those ideas were silly, of course. But being young and alone, I'm sure that the strain was immense on her.



If she had told me about the baby, of course I would have been delighted. Nothing would have changed, but I never got the chance to make that decision.



We did get married, but the marriage fell apart..not because of anything arising from this situation. She just couldn't leave her hometown. She always said she wanted to see the world, but dreaming that and doing it are two entirely different things.



OK, Maybe we should have married earlier, but seeing the eventual outcome...maybe not.

So...I guess you could cast blame, or shake fingers, but honestly, we were in a loving relationship and things just went wrong. Life's like that sometimes.



After that, I went into the Air Force and later into corporate society.





I never married again until I was 34.



(She's not able to have children BTW.)
Bless your heart...for both the experiences you two went through, and for trying to mend fences.



I didn't understand you being made out to be the sole cause of her abortion since it was consensual sex, her decision alone to have the abortion, and so on. It strikes me in a bad way, and it'll take too long to explain my weird views of friendship and the empowerment of women (we're not victims).



And I'm just dang cranky! waaaaaa!



Thanks, Jives. I know it isn't easy to share painful things.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.

Aristotle
Paula
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by Paula »

kalanu: are you hoping to become pregnant? there are places to go for help & discussion about options. it is impolite to ask others about their sex lives and how they DO IT. :yh_loser this is the part of forums that are disgusting. No i haven't had it today, maybe tonight!
Everyone has these on their face? TULIPS.
Jives
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by Jives »

kalanu wrote: My heart hurts for you. I did not ask that you should bare your soul. And I'm sorry if I was the catalyst that you should feel you needed to say these things.

I humbly assure you that I understand what makes us human. You project a gentle spirit, I thank you for letting it show. :-6

Kalanu


No need to be sorry. It helps me sometimes to remember and talk about it. It was all a very, very long time ago.

Besides, that's what forums are for....isn't it? To get out difficult, exciting, mysterious, controversial, and emotional ideas and converse with others about them in a controlled, moderated way? The Greeks were really on to something! :yh_wink
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
A Karenina
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by A Karenina »

kalanu wrote: My heart hurts for you. I did not ask that you should bare your soul. And I'm sorry if I was the catalyst that you should feel you needed to say these things.

I humbly assure you that I understand what makes us human. You project a gentle spirit, I thank you for letting it show. :-6

Kalanu
Very gracious. :)
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.

Aristotle
Beth
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by Beth »

billyandmichellecoffey wrote: The life of a human being begins when that human being first comes into existence.-- birth.

If that is the case then how can you hear a babys heart beat at a three week pregnancy check up? I heard all three of my childrens heartbeats when i was three weeks pregnant and i have pictures of them also. Yes they are really tiny but guess what they are alive.

If a baby is not alive until birth how can a person feel them kick while they are inside of the mother?

If the baby is not alive until birth then how do they gain weight? It is proven fact that non existant things do not gain weight, have a heart beat, hiccup, or have bath room rights.A fetus is a living human organism, but it is not a human being. Until the 22-24 week, a fetus' brain is not fully wired and is unable to have the most primative cognitive thought. It is a potential human being. It will become an actualized human being if the mother allows it to grow withing her to be born.
koan
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by koan »

chattergal, i believe you did the right thing.

let no one tell you different. In my eyes you are very brave.
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nvalleyvee
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by nvalleyvee »

I lost 4 children - I really can't speak on this because it upsets me sooo much.
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Wolverine
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by Wolverine »

Jackie, you hit it right on the nose there. As for the others who are preaching about the sanctity of life: when the census comes around every ten years, do they count a pregnant woman as two people?? No. She is one person. Whatever is growing inside her, is HER body. Wether it be a baby or a tumor.

And what do you say to the women who take the "morning after pill" Are they committting murder? I don't think so. But I don't hear as much uproar about that. I mean if life begins at conception, then she should be punished in some way.

Do I agree with abortion? In most cases, yes. What i do NOT agree with are the women who use it as a means of birth control. Get a f**king condom!!

And I do not agree with partial birth ones either. To my understanding, that is when the fetus has matured more and it is late in the pregnancy? My question is "why did you wait so long?"

I am not grouping medical and health reasons into this category. Just the women who change their minds halfway through. Uhm, sorry. 'Fraid not.

But personally i think that this topic is as heated as sex. If people were more open with themselves, their kids we would be seeing a great reduction in the number of abortions in young people. But God forbid we talk about sex.

This mentality of "if we don't talk about it, they won't do it" has got to STOP! We aren't talking about it and clearly they are still doing it. I have two 14 year old girls in my Western Civilizations class that are pregnant. They are due in June. They were kept out of the sex ed classes by their parents.

I got in some trouble when they came to me asking questions. I wasn't about to lie to them, or say "I don't know" or "your folks told me not to tell you"

I'm sorry. I got to rambling again. I don't mean to. Hopefully Jives won't kick my @$$ like he did last time.

Because all this, this whole mess, leads back to education. If they knew about their bodies, sexual activity, birth control would be less likely to expierement on a Friday night under the bleachers. But that's just me.


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observer1
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by observer1 »

Why do we then celebrate BIRTHdays? Why not celebrate CONCEPTIONdays instead?
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minks
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Post by minks »

observer1 wrote: Why do we then celebrate BIRTHdays? Why not celebrate CONCEPTIONdays instead?


because often those are a mystery ahahaha or better yet, we don't want our own moms and dads to know their grandchild was conceived on their couch whilst they were away on holidays and we were supposed to be responsible adults and only come in and water plants AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�

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Betty Boop
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by Betty Boop »

I wouldn't know when to celebrate!! It would have to be a guess!

Especially if you're trying really hard for a baby!! It could be one of many dates! :wah:
observer1
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Post by observer1 »

But still, that date should by far be much more important than the date of birth. After all, isn't that when your life 'began'?? :-3
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actionfigurestepho
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by actionfigurestepho »

I hate the idea of convenience abortions, but I can't imagine telling someone in a horrible situation that they have to go through with giving birth and the agony of adoption, or medical problems for something that's not their fault. I have a friend who was raped and became pregnant. I don't know that I would have been strong enough to carry that child, either. She was in school on scholarship at the time.

Or what about those young teenagers who are 12, 13 who get raped by family members and end up pregnant? Can you imagine being in that situation? How horrible.
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

I have a real problem with the government mandating what we "must" do simply because it is something we "should" do.



As for the birthday thing (ignoring the obvious "you'd have to call it conception day" argument :) ), life begins at conception. That is scientific fact. The true argument hidden behind the term is really citizenship. Life begins at conception; Rights begin at citizenship, which begins at birth.



If we change the rules to allowing citizenship at conception, we make a problem far too complicated for politicians to sum up in a sound bite, therefore unacceptable.
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actionfigurestepho
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by actionfigurestepho »

Accountable wrote:

If we change the rules to allowing citizenship at conception, we make a problem far too complicated for politicians to sum up in a sound bite, therefore unacceptable.
LOL. Good point though. Kind of like in trials where someone murders an expectant mother and everyone argues over whether it was one murder or two.
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actionfigurestepho
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Pro-choice and pro-abortion: two very different things

Post by actionfigurestepho »

Wolverine wrote:

And what do you say to the women who take the "morning after pill" Are they committting murder? I don't think so. But I don't hear as much uproar about that. I mean if life begins at conception, then she should be punished in some way.
Just for the record, the morning after pill is NOT an abortion, it's actually just a very concentrated birth control pill. If someone takes the morning after pill and they're already pregnant, it will do nothing. It has the same effect as taking three or four ortho-cyclens. Your skin would clear up a little, that's about it. Are you thinking of the "abortion pill"? That's the pill you take in the first trimester that causes miscarraige. It's not birth control, you take it after you find out you're already pregnant.
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BTS
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Post by BTS »

Chris wrote: Agreed. But a philosophical view doesn't preclude mixing in your religious beliefs as well.







There are a lot of folks who consider the above not ethical. (Egg harvesting.)



Also, if you slip down the slope to the "it's a cell issue" - you completely discount my argument about the sanctity of life. You either believe in it - or not. I believe in it so I follow the belief that life begins at the moment of conception.









The mother is not at fault with a miscarriage! This was the body rejecting the fetus. She didn't choose for this to happen. How could you blame her?









I Disagree. When did your life begin? At 1 hour after conception? Two weeks after conception? 8 months after conception?



If the ACLU or the Courts said that your life began at month 4 - then what WERE you during the previous 3.99 months? Is that really a human thought issue?


Great points Chris............



Where did you go?

No Post count...........Just GONE

Did you get banned for your views?

I hope not as I agree with all you have posred.........
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