ILLEGAL aliens

Open or closed borders?
4rum
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Post by 4rum »

Yes they are human, yes they deserve to live, yes they have a human right to strive for a better life... BUT, they are breaking the law to do it...and we are permitting it.

Take the second and third generation deadbeats in this country off welfare. The job market the ILLEGALS fill would suddenly become much more attractive. A lot less money would come out of my (earned) paycheck, and it would give me the hope of a retirement program.

If there were to become less jobs for ILLEGALS, there would be less ILLEGALS.

If more deadbeats that live off of very liberal handout programs took jobs there would be less jobs for ILLEGALS.

Holy ship... I'd better close this out... I'm making sense.
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buttercup
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Post by buttercup »

anyone anywhere should have the freedom to live anywhere they so choose in the world :-4
4rum
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Post by 4rum »

buttercup wrote: anyone anywhere should have the freedom to live anywhere they so choose in the world :-4



Then do it legally, support the country and it's people that feed you and don't make me pay twice the price to have the ingredients of my bag of tater chips printed in two frikken languages!
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chonsigirl
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Post by chonsigirl »

Well, I will make my statement-unless you are Native American, then your family has come here at some point in time, illegally. And taken the land from those who owned it first.

Hatred and intense dislike of them will not alter the situation, dear 4rum.

And English is not the official language of the United States, last I heard.
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valerie
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Post by valerie »

Land was taken from the Native Americans, but I don't think that means

everyone else came here illegally. People all over the world have to

submit to their countries being taken over... or at least have down through

history. Doesn't mean it's right, but at some point changes are made, and

people should learn to live with those changes.



I like Sheryl's post in my thread (Monday's Boycott) about wearing red

or blue tomorrow and going shopping.



It does irk me to be held "hostage" in any way by illegal aliens. There

has to be something else done. And the idea of getting people off

welfare and putting them to work just might be viable. Sacramento,

California has for years had programs in place, you look for work or

you don't GET welfare.



We had amnesty many years back. We can't just keep giving it and

giving it and giving it. That doesn't work. We end up getting no

respect and encouraging MORE illegal immigrants to come here in the

hope that oh, what's it matter, they'll give us amnesty anyway.
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Post by pantsonfire321@aol.com »

buttercup wrote: anyone anywhere should have the freedom to live anywhere they so choose in the world :-4



Yes if they pay for it . If i want to go live in the caribbean i would have to pay my own way so why should immigrant's be given free benefit's free housing free schooling and the right to complain anytime they can't get their own way .Show me one country that you and me can rock upto and be given a home money to live on help finding work and if i don't want to work they'll give me a lifetime of benefit's think about it .....while immigrant's are whinging about how hard done by they are in the UK what about the school place's their taking... the fund's being wasted on immigrant's coming in infected with HIV /TB... how many home's are being taken and given to immigrant's .Why the free ride why give convicted alien's asylem why let them stay after the break the law....... WHY because this country does'nt care about it's own citizen's now there's a kick in the face .
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buttercup
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Post by buttercup »

its up to us to vote in a party that will make policies that we agree with regarding this matter pants, obviously the majority of people here voted in the labour party agree with what they do

immigrants are not the only people who abuse the benefits system
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cars
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Post by cars »

buttercup wrote: its up to us to vote in a party that will make policies that we agree with regarding this matter pants, obviously the majority of people here voted in the labour party agree with what they do

immigrants are not the only people who abuse the benefits system



Unfortunately many "Politicians" say what ever is needed to get themselves "elected"! Then once in office, they backstep & say you must have misunderstood what I said, or I'm working on it, & it never happens! The word "immigrants" is really being misused, we're actually talking about "Illegals". Legal Immigrants are "legal" citizens. Illegal is just that Illegal. And that should translate into having no "legal" citizen's rights at all, that they are already getting, & now they want even more!!! :wah:
Cars :driving:





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Post by pantsonfire321@aol.com »

buttercup wrote:

immigrants are not the only people who abuse the benefits system



That's what make's me so mad
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad »

buttercup wrote: anyone anywhere should have the freedom to live anywhere they so choose in the world :-4





There are rules and laws butter. Follow the rules, then come. Dont come here illegally then protest your rights if you havent earned your rights.
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LilacDragon
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Post by LilacDragon »

buttercup wrote: anyone anywhere should have the freedom to live anywhere they so choose in the world :-4



Well, if I wanted to move and live permanently in another country first I would find out what kind of paperwork was needed. And while the paperwork was being processed (and we all know THAT could take forever) I would take a class or buy some cassettes so that I could learn the native language of the country I was hoping to move to. I would also learn as much as I could about the customs and laws of that country so as not to offend people or end up in a foreign jail.

If I really liked living there and decided to become a citizen I would find out what tests I would need to take or what other requirements there were so that I could complete them.

Illegal aliens do none of these things yet want to take advantage of all the benefits of being a citizen. Sorry, but that is NOT the way it is supposed to work.
Sandi



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buttercup
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Post by buttercup »

i take everyone's points but the way (it is supposed to work) is we are all inhabitants of the earth & should be able to move freely period

as i said before if governments in power refuse to do what you want then all of you who object should be looking closer at who you vote in, cars pointed out earlier that governments will say anything to get in power & if they do not carry out what they set out to do then i ask again, why do the people keep voting the same party back in :confused:

im sorry people but if you feel so strongly about this issue you should be getting together & doing something about it instead of just moaning & waiting for something to happen
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

The term that gets to me most is "undocumented immigrant." I don't know if they use this term outside the US. Sounds kinda nice, doesn't it?



If someone enters my house without my permission, do we call him an undocumented resident? NO! We call him what he is: a burglar. A criminal! People that enter my country without following the rules and guidelines set forth for that purpose are likewise criminals, no better than any other burglar.



Ours is a nation of laws. If you don't agree with the law, fight to change it. Until then, obey it.



One's right to swing a fist ends at the tip of my nose, as the saying goes. "Anyone anywhere should have the freedom to live anywhere they so choose in the world"?? Say that to the stranger who's crawled in your window to raid your fridge.
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Post by Maxi_Uno »

Accountable wrote: The term that gets to me most is "undocumented immigrant." I don't know if they use this term outside the US. Sounds kinda nice, doesn't it?



If someone enters my house without my permission, do we call him an undocumented resident? NO! We call him what he is: a burglar. A criminal! People that enter my country without following the rules and guidelines set forth for that purpose are likewise criminals, no better than any other burglar.



Ours is a nation of laws. If you don't agree with the law, fight to change it. Until then, obey it.



One's right to swing a fist ends at the tip of my nose, as the saying goes. "Anyone anywhere should have the freedom to live anywhere they so choose in the world"?? Say that to the stranger who's crawled in your window to raid your fridge.



WASHINGTON - Immigration agents arrested seven executives and hundreds of employees of a manufacturer of crates and pallets Wednesday as part of a crackdown on employers of illegal workers.

Authorities raided offices and plants of IFCO Systems in at least eight states, the culmination of a yearlong criminal investigation, law enforcement officials said.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents arrested seven current and former IFCO Systems managers on charges they conspired to transport, harbor and encourage illegal workers to reside in the United States for commercial advantage and private financial gain, said Glenn T. Suddaby, the chief federal prosecutor in Albany, N.Y., where some arrests were made.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12393925/
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

I don't understand the connection to my statement. :-2
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Post by Maxi_Uno »

Accountable wrote: I don't understand the connection to my statement. :-2



If there are so many Mexicans in this country and we don't need them, why do companies encourage "illegal workers"? Why do they transport, harbor and encourage them to com3e and live here?
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LilacDragon
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Post by LilacDragon »

Maxi_Uno wrote: If there are so many Mexicans in this country and we don't need them, why do companies encourage "illegal workers"? Why do they transport, harbor and encourage them to com3e and live here?



Because - illegals don't pay taxes and they don't pay into Social Security, they are generally paid lower wages then a U.S. citizen would demand. So the company saves money by paying less for labor and not having to pay payroll people to do payroll. They can also get around paying Workman's Compensation. If a worker gets hurt on the job, then they can go to a county hospital and get medical care for free. (Oh, sorry - I paid their medical bill with MY taxes!).
Sandi



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valerie
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Post by valerie »

Buttercup, moving freely is what could potentially let terrorists into

this country.



I've been watching about 2 1/2 hours of news programs, a lot of it

centered on this issue and today's boycott. And I think I'm more angry

over it than I was before. There are some schools in my area that had

attendance only 40% of normal.



One employer locally, a restaurant owner, had to close his business for

the day because his 6 cooks took it off. He was quoted as saying "What

am I going to do, fire them all?" If he did, he's out more time until he's

able to hire more cooks.



And it appears that so many legal immigrants took the day off "To show

solidarity" well then that really isn't right, either.



Maybe a wall IS the answer.



P.S. I heard a figure of between 700,000 and 900,000 legal immigrants

the US lets in every year. That's a big number in any book.



Lilac, you might have said before, forgive me, but what are your husband's

thoughts on this if you don't mind my asking?
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Post by Maxi_Uno »

LilacDragon wrote: Because - illegals don't pay taxes and they don't pay into Social Security, they are generally paid lower wages then a U.S. citizen would demand. So the company saves money by paying less for labor and not having to pay payroll people to do payroll. They can also get around paying Workman's Compensation. If a worker gets hurt on the job, then they can go to a county hospital and get medical care for free. (Oh, sorry - I paid their medical bill with MY taxes!).



Blame the peoples that employ them.:o
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LilacDragon
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Post by LilacDragon »

Maxi_Uno wrote: Blame the peoples that employ them.:o



I DO blame the people that employ them!! And I think that there should be laws about employing them! Oops - my bad - there are laws. Too bad they aren't more strictly enforced.

As for my DH's opinions on this - our time online to talk is limited and we have decided not to waste it talking about politics.
Sandi



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Post by pantsonfire321@aol.com »

Along with the appropriate paperwork i think it should be compulsory to check an immigrant for prior convictions they should also be finger printed and screened for HIV/TB and any other long term illness that would be a lifetime drain on medical resource's and housed in detention center's until their case is dealt with . The reason anyone can't just live anywhere is because each country has the right to lay down it's own law's. I'm sure i'm not the only one sick and tired of hearing story's about illegals committing crime's over and over and not being deported ...what about the 1000 illegal immigrant's released by mistake here in the UK these included rapist's murderers and peadophiles the list was endless all released into the community without supervison .We have enough homegrown criminal's we don't need any more and why arn't these people trying to build back up their own country's.... there's no reason why if they have to break their neck's to travel half way around the world ( ignoring the first country of safety) they can't go back ..also has anyone noticed it's generally young male's coming into the UK ...,,
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buttercup
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Post by buttercup »

Accountable wrote: The term that gets to me most is "undocumented immigrant." I don't know if they use this term outside the US. Sounds kinda nice, doesn't it?



If someone enters my house without my permission, do we call him an undocumented resident? NO! We call him what he is: a burglar. A criminal! People that enter my country without following the rules and guidelines set forth for that purpose are likewise criminals, no better than any other burglar.



Ours is a nation of laws. If you don't agree with the law, fight to change it. Until then, obey it.



One's right to swing a fist ends at the tip of my nose, as the saying goes. "Anyone anywhere should have the freedom to live anywhere they so choose in the world"?? Say that to the stranger who's crawled in your window to raid your fridge.



hi accountable :-4

ive been broken into before, he was not an immigrant

The term 'illegal immigrant' implies a shady character, who might be into smuggling drugs or even children. Illegal is code for criminal, a corrupting influence on honest British communities. But the reality is very different: illegal immigrants are living and working in British towns and cities, and in many cases have been doing so for years. They could be Aussie students who overstayed their visas, the chef in your local Chinese restaurant, or African porters in hotels.



By and large, immigrants have slotted easily into British life, especially in big metropolitan centres like London and Manchester. In these cities, different communities interact freely every day and racial prejudice is lower than ever.



The sound and fury about the 'immigration issue' has nothing to do with real immigrants living in real cities. It is a projection of a whole host of social anxieties. Hence the resonance of illegal immigration, which by definition points to people we do not know about. It's like a parody of the WMD debate: 'How many weapons is Saddam hiding from us?' becomes 'How many immigrants are hiding from us?'. The latest figure was taken from census data, where the number of legal immigrants was subtracted from the total number of those who stated that they were born overseas. But commentators were wheeled out to say that there could actually be far, far more.



Critics argue that Tony Blair is 'dodging the immigration issue'. But so are they. The discussion isn't about the figures themselves - about how many really are living in Britain. Instead, the whole thing has become about Tony Blair: whether he lied to us in the past and whether his stats can be trusted now.



We need a debate about the reality of immigration



During the election, Blair was asked 20 times by BBC Newsnight presenter Jeremy Paxman how many illegal immigrants there were in the UK. 'I can't be sure', Blair parried repeatedly. Now this study comes out, and everyone cries 'Gotcha!'. Blair was trying to mislead us - how could he not have known? Shadow home secretary David Davis leapt on the attack: 'This report shows unequivocally that the prime minister was wrong when he claimed it was impossible to know how many failed illegal immigrants there are in Britain.' The Sun concurred: 'It seems impossible to believe the Home Office only discovered the truth in the past two months.'



The government clearly doesn't want to talk about immigration, though. Blair's squirming interview said that, as did the fact that the Home Office didn't put its latest report on the homepage of its website (though it did flag up its defensive response to critics). After the General Election, government minister Margaret Beckett claimed that immigration was one of the reasons Labour had done badly.



Why is it such a political hot potato? Less because of immigrants causing problems, than because of politicians' fears about another section of the population - the Daily Mail- and Sun-reading white working class. Politicians feel that the British masses are a strange breed, like a tinderbox waiting for a spark. Any talk of immigrants, they suspect, is likely to set people off - and probably turn the whole lot of them over to the British National Party (BNP).



We should have no time for the government's defensiveness, or the critics' endless speculations. Instead, we need a debate about the reality of immigration, and life in Britain today. Should we relax border controls more? How are communities getting on in Britain's cities? What kind of towns and cities do we want to live in?

i wont comment further on this thread as i fear with such strong feelings either way it could land up a bitch fest as seems to be the way in most political or religious threads :rolleyes:
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

Maxi_Uno wrote: If there are so many Mexicans in this country and we don't need them, why do companies encourage "illegal workers"? Why do they transport, harbor and encourage them to com3e and live here?
The question is not Mexicans. It is the criminals that come into our country without going through the required process. Rale against the process all you want. You won't likely get an argument from me.



I never posted anything about whether we need Mexicans.



As for the employers who knowingly employ the criminals: seems like aiding and abetting to me. That's a crime. They pay the criminals under the table, thereby saving nearly 50% in payroll taxes, insurance, etc. That's another crime. They use unfair practices to undercut law-abiding competition. Yet another crime. A rookie cop or 3rd year law student could probably come up with a whole list of crimes these employers are committing. If these laws were enforced as they should be, the demand for criminal employees would virtually disappear. That would greatly reduce the criminal invasion.



Still working 4/10s?
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

buttercup wrote: hi accountable :-4
:yh_hugs I miss you since I can't hang out much.



buttercup wrote: ive been broken into before, he was not an immigrant



The term 'illegal immigrant' implies a shady character, who might be into smuggling drugs or even children. Illegal is code for criminal, a corrupting influence on honest British communities. But the reality is very different: illegal immigrants are living and working in British towns and cities, and in many cases have been doing so for years. They could be Aussie students who overstayed their visas, the chef in your local Chinese restaurant, or African porters in hotels.
Illegal is not code; it means not legal, which is criminal.



No doubt most in the US come in for jobs to better their lives. As hardworking and dependable as they may be, they cannot be called honest.

I heard that the US has no law actually criminalizing overstaying on expired visas, so to call them illegal aliens (which we do) is actually a misnomer here.





buttercup wrote: By and large, immigrants have slotted easily into British life, especially in big metropolitan centres like London and Manchester. In these cities, different communities interact freely every day and racial prejudice is lower than ever.
Good! Also irrellevant. :o



buttercup wrote: The sound and fury about the 'immigration issue' has nothing to do with real immigrants living in real cities. It is a projection of a whole host of social anxieties. Hence the resonance of illegal immigration, which by definition points to people we do not know about. It's like a parody of the WMD debate: 'How many weapons is Saddam hiding from us?' becomes 'How many immigrants are hiding from us?'. The latest figure was taken from census data, where the number of legal immigrants was subtracted from the total number of those who stated that they were born overseas. But commentators were wheeled out to say that there could actually be far, far more.
Yeh, that tendency drives me nuts, too. The fact remains that so long as we have avenues for people to enter the country without our knowledge, terrorists can enter the country without our knowledge.







I can't comment on Blair or your country's immigration issues.
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Post by Jives »

Sorry, I haven't read the rest of this thread. No time right now.

Yesterday, all the illegal immigrants boycotted work to draw attention to thmeselves.

I'm a little confused about all this.

1. If you are a criminal, why would you want attention?

2. You are not paying any taxes, yet you recieve all social services for free. What is there to protest about?

3. Why did you come to America if you did not want to be American?

So anyway, they are waving the Mexican flag on my main street and burning it in Mexico city. I'm sad about that. What's the point of that? :/
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
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valerie
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Post by valerie »

buttercup wrote: hi accountable :-4

ive been broken into before, he was not an immigrant



The term 'illegal immigrant' implies a shady character, who might be into smuggling drugs or even children. Illegal is code for criminal, a corrupting influence on honest British communities. But the reality is very different: illegal immigrants are living and working in British towns and cities, and in many cases have been doing so for years. They could be Aussie students who overstayed their visas, the chef in your local Chinese restaurant, or African porters in hotels.





By and large, immigrants have slotted easily into British life, especially in big metropolitan centres like London and Manchester. In these cities, different communities interact freely every day and racial prejudice is lower than ever.





The sound and fury about the 'immigration issue' has nothing to do with real immigrants living in real cities. It is a projection of a whole host of social anxieties. Hence the resonance of illegal immigration, which by definition points to people we do not know about. It's like a parody of the WMD debate: 'How many weapons is Saddam hiding from us?' becomes 'How many immigrants are hiding from us?'. The latest figure was taken from census data, where the number of legal immigrants was subtracted from the total number of those who stated that they were born overseas. But commentators were wheeled out to say that there could actually be far, far more.





Critics argue that Tony Blair is 'dodging the immigration issue'. But so are they. The discussion isn't about the figures themselves - about how many really are living in Britain. Instead, the whole thing has become about Tony Blair: whether he lied to us in the past and whether his stats can be trusted now.





We need a debate about the reality of immigration



During the election, Blair was asked 20 times by BBC Newsnight presenter Jeremy Paxman how many illegal immigrants there were in the UK. 'I can't be sure', Blair parried repeatedly. Now this study comes out, and everyone cries 'Gotcha!'. Blair was trying to mislead us - how could he not have known? Shadow home secretary David Davis leapt on the attack: 'This report shows unequivocally that the prime minister was wrong when he claimed it was impossible to know how many failed illegal immigrants there are in Britain.' The Sun concurred: 'It seems impossible to believe the Home Office only discovered the truth in the past two months.'





The government clearly doesn't want to talk about immigration, though. Blair's squirming interview said that, as did the fact that the Home Office didn't put its latest report on the homepage of its website (though it did flag up its defensive response to critics). After the General Election, government minister Margaret Beckett claimed that immigration was one of the reasons Labour had done badly.





Why is it such a political hot potato? Less because of immigrants causing problems, than because of politicians' fears about another section of the population - the Daily Mail- and Sun-reading white working class. Politicians feel that the British masses are a strange breed, like a tinderbox waiting for a spark. Any talk of immigrants, they suspect, is likely to set people off - and probably turn the whole lot of them over to the British National Party (BNP).





We should have no time for the government's defensiveness, or the critics' endless speculations. Instead, we need a debate about the reality of immigration, and life in Britain today. Should we relax border controls more? How are communities getting on in Britain's cities? What kind of towns and cities do we want to live in?



i wont comment further on this thread as i fear with such strong feelings either way it could land up a bitch fest as seems to be the way in most political or religious threads :rolleyes:



I know you said you wouldn't post on this again Buttercup, but I was just

curious where you got this? Was it a newspaper? I guess I'm coming at

this from mainly California viewpoint, don't know anything really about the

UK side of it...
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valerie
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Post by valerie »

Jives wrote: Sorry, I haven't read the rest of this thread. No time right now.



Yesterday, all the illegal immigrants boycotted work to draw attention to thmeselves.



I'm a little confused about all this.



1. If you are a criminal, why would you want attention?



2. You are not paying any taxes, yet you recieve all social services for free. What is there to protest about?



3. Why did you come to America if you did not want to be American?



So anyway, they are waving the Mexican flag on my main street and burning it in Mexico city. I'm sad about that. What's the point of that? :/



Jives, I found out recently (much to my surprise) that some do pay taxes.

They use tax ID numbers, the article I read wasn't clear on how they get

those.



Some of them I saw in various marches, covered their faces, many using

the Mexican flag tied over the lower half, like a robber with a kerchief

or something.



And local news last night, had a shot of a school bulletin board, all the

words on it were SPANISH. This in SANTA ROSA CALIFORNIA!



Another thing that bothered me, was all the children. Most seemed to

just be parroting what their parents say all the time. One 8 year old

said something about how he was going to be sent back to Mexico, that's

why he was there. He is a citizen, his father is not.



:thinking:
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Post by buttercup »

valerie wrote: I know you said you wouldn't post on this again Buttercup, but I was just

curious where you got this? Was it a newspaper? I guess I'm coming at

this from mainly California viewpoint, don't know anything really about the

UK side of it...



only in respect of valerie do i post this, the above is a widely held view in scotland val & not being in america i cannot really understand the u.s viewpoint, it saddens me that we cannot live where we want in this planet :(
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Post by Jives »

valerie wrote: Jives, I found out recently (much to my surprise) that some do pay taxes.

They use tax ID numbers, the article I read wasn't clear on how they get

those.



Well...that makes me feel better.
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valerie
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Post by valerie »

buttercup wrote: it saddens me that we cannot live where we want in this planet :(



I truly do understand that.
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Post by buttercup »

valerie wrote: I truly do understand that.



i know you do :-4

lets go hug some trees :D
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Post by 911 »

What I don't understand is the reasoning by my fellow Americans and the illegals regarding jobs. If they become citizens then they will be entitled to at least minimum wage or more. They claim that they do the jobs that we as Americans will not, so if they become citizens they won't do those jobs either because it will be illegal to pay them the wages they are getting now. The employers will be in the same shape then they would be in if they hired true Americans. It will be the same for the employers to hire born Americans as it will be for them to hire Mexican-Americans. What's the diff? The illegals will have to pay all the taxes we pay now and with a minimum wage job and (as we know so well) that will barely put a roof over their heads. Why would they want to become citizens?

If they want to become citizens I suggest they have to go through all the rigamaroll every other alien does. Learn English, learn a little of our history and go through all the paperwork to become a citizen and swear their alligence to the United States.

But if they (the government) choose not to do that then I suggest an exchange program. For every illegal person here that the government make a citizen by saying *poof* you are now a citizen, we send one sex offender to Mexico. We build several jails in Mexico and transfer our hardened criminals, those on death row and those serving life sentences, to them and make them take care of our unsavory citizens. That should just about cover the costs of caring for their citizens that we have here on welfare. Once they can't get a job because they don't speak English, they will all go on welfare as sit on their a**es and become a burden on us. You at least have to be able to say "You want fries with that?" in order to get a job at McDonalds!

And, one other thing, why do we celebrate Cinco de Mayo? Does Mexico celebrate the Fourth of July? I'm sure we have Americans living there too. Just because there are Mexicans here doesn't mean we should make a big deal out of one of their holidays. Does it make us feel cool or 'in' to celebrate something we know nothing about? :-2
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Post by Nomad »

A person that enters this country through the proper channels REALLY REALLY wants to be here. Thats a guy I want here. Not someone sneaking through the back door.
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

valerie wrote: Jives, I found out recently (much to my surprise) that some do pay taxes.

They use tax ID numbers, the article I read wasn't clear on how they get

those.
I don't see how it could be done other than through fraud, another crime they're getting rewarded for committing.
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Post by Jives »

Nomad wrote: A person that enters this country through the proper channels REALLY REALLY wants to be here. Thats a guy I want here. Not someone sneaking through the back door.



Interestingly, Mexico won't take immigrants unless they are educated. That seems hypocritical to me.
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Post by Jives »

911 wrote: What I don't understand is the reasoning by my fellow Americans and the illegals regarding jobs.



One illegal in my town was quoted as saying "I WANT MY RIGHTS!!" I had to laugh. If you want rights, become a legal citizen and you automatically get the same as everyone else. The only reason you don't have right is because you sneaked across the border.

As to jobs...911 has the right idea. If you stop the demand there will be no motivation to come here.

I say we make it a felony to hire illegals and enforce that law. If they can't get a job, there will be no reason to be here.

Unfortunately, we'll all have to do our part. The number-one employers of illegals are homeowners. No more getting the local illegals at Home Depot to weed your yard.:cool:
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Post by valerie »

Accountable wrote: I don't see how it could be done other than through fraud, another crime they're getting rewarded for committing.



I don't either but unfortunately I didn't save the newspaper article.



I seriously doubt it's really prevalent among illegals, though. This was

a man who had a construction business, and was hoping to CYA if

they were ever granted amnesty again. Not having a social security

number and running a business and paying taxes was interesting.



One of our really big problems here is the impounding of illegal's cars,

which are then sold to other illegals. There is a move afoot among some

here to inact a law where it is illegal to sell a vehicle to someone without

a valid driver's license.
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Post by Adam Zapple »

buttercup wrote: anyone anywhere should have the freedom to live anywhere they so choose in the world :-4



Why?
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Post by Lulu2 »

I'm asking, too, Zapple....WHY?

Let's assume I have a lovely house with a gorgeous garden. I've worked all my life to earn and save the money to build that garen and take care of that house.

One day, someone jumps the wall and sneaks into my house. In order to fool and supplicate me, he mows my lawn and polishes my windows.

The next day, he moves into my house and begins to demand things....for example, he demands that my television set be tuned to a channel in HIS language! He demands to be entitled to vote...and that all communications be written in his native tongue.

Although he has no insurance for health care, he demands that he be able to use emergency rooms at local hospitals as health care clincs....he takes his children there when they have measles or a cough or any other childhood disease.

The rest of us wait in line.

Although he has no right to any form of social services, he utilizes them.

Although he has no right to representation in our government, he takes to the streets, waving a Mexican flag, and demands "HIS RIGHTS"....(for what? to vote? to jump the line ahead of thousands of people who've been "in queue?")

Finally, if your very first act in getting here is an illegal one....why on EARTH should I trust you to live here or become a citizen or even raise law-abiding children? Our jails are overcrowded with members of foreign-born gangs...with all their tattoos and signs and histories!

You know...it's the easiest thing in the world to level the title of

(Nana, nana, NANNNNNNA! YOU ARE A RACIST!)

and most of us will back off because you CANNOT prove this and you CANNOT identify anyone who even MIGHT be a racist. Calling me (or anyone else) racist makes it only impossible to "clear" ourselves....but then, you KNOW that, don't you?

AND- here's the truth....I absolutely AM not a racist...nor am I an ageist or a communist or a fighter against men's agendas....

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Post by charity2k4 »

4rum wrote: Yes they are human, yes they deserve to live, yes they have a human right to strive for a better life... BUT, they are breaking the law to do it...and we are permitting it.

Take the second and third generation deadbeats in this country off welfare. The job market the ILLEGALS fill would suddenly become much more attractive. A lot less money would come out of my (earned) paycheck, and it would give me the hope of a retirement program.

If there were to become less jobs for ILLEGALS, there would be less ILLEGALS.

If more deadbeats that live off of very liberal handout programs took jobs there would be less jobs for ILLEGALS.

Holy ship... I'd better close this out... I'm making sense.



Its interesting that people take a lot of issue over this if i recall weren't Americans illegal aliens ? :-3
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Post by Accountable »

charity2k4 wrote: Its interesting that people take a lot of issue over this if i recall weren't Americans illegal aliens ? :-3
no.



And we aren't deaf, either. :D
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Post by Accountable »

Mexico just had presidential elections, and it was very close. I wonder how the vote would have turned out if all her citizens were there and available to vote.
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Post by Lulu2 »

Good point! Now we wait and see if anything changes....
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Post by ZAP »

I'm facing a dilemma here. Don't know on which side of the fence I belong. The one with the law-abiding, tax-paying, hard-working Americans who have slaved and done things the proper way and gained some assets during their lifetime and are now fearful of their lifestyle being taken away or diminished. I certainly qualify for this group.

Or on the side of a hypothetical creature I'm about to illustrate for consideration of worthiness. A Mexican woman, poorer than most of us can ever imagine, with small children, no husband, no means of support or any way of obtaining food, other than begging for it. They are near starvation in a country which has no welfare programs. She lives in a cardboard and tin shack with a dirt floor and feels grateful to have that. They sleep on rags. She sees the possibility of something better for herself, but more importantly, for her children, but it means breaking some laws.

I say I doubt what the proper thing to do is, but if I saw my children starving, I know what I would do.

Then I have to look to my ancestors, maybe there's an answer there. Were the wealthy Europeans who came here and helped to build this land, owned slaves, but treated them fairly and were generally fine and upstanding citizens the ones I should admire, or my other ancestors, the Native Americans they took the land from? Were my pioneer ancestors who went out with Danile Boone's party to settle the lands west of Ohio more admirable than the ancestor who was on the Trail of Tears, being banished to Oklahoma?

Like I said, I don't know where I belong.
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Post by Sheryl »

The way they get tax id numbers and such is because there's some guy in a backroom producing fake id's and such. I can travel 10 miles and go get a whole new idenity right now if I had the cash and want too. The problem is that I run the risk of having the same SS# as 12 other folks in my county. :rolleyes:

I've worked in the ER of a county hospital. I've seen all the folks come in with ailments that could of waited till the family physicians opened up the next day. But no they come to the ER because we cannot refuse them service for not having insurance or medicaid.

It's now rouging season in my area. There are hundreds of illegal immigrants here hoeing cotton for nearly $800 a week. If it wasn't for the fear of being the only gringo out there, I'd go hoe cotton for that money. :rolleyes:
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Post by Jives »

Sheryl wrote: I've worked in the ER of a county hospital. I've seen all the folks come in with ailments that could of waited till the family physicians opened up the next day. But no they come to the ER because we cannot refuse them service for not having insurance or medicaid.



The same thing is happening in the schools. Even if your parents are illegal, the schools still hve to take the kids in. Worse yet, they don't speak English. So while we are trying to teach them to speak the native language of this country (which they refuse to do) they take the tests given by the government and fail them, making the whole school go under.:-5
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Post by Nomad »

Jives wrote: The same thing is happening in the schools. Even if your parents are illegal, the schools still hve to take the kids in. Worse yet, they don't speak English. So while we are trying to teach them to speak the native language of this country (which they refuse to do) they take the tests given by the government and fail them, making the whole school go under.:-5





Your an idiot.
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