immigration rallies across US today

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lady cop
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immigration rallies across US today

Post by lady cop »

Rights rallies across U.S.



Hundreds of thousands of protesters demanded Monday that illegal immigrants get a chance to live the American dream -- as politicians argue over competing visions for immigration reform. "We come to this country not to take from America, but to make America strong," said one organizer.

FULL STORY ...........what is your opinion? whether you live in the US or elsewhere. in all honesty i am disturbed that people who are illegals are demanding services and assistance here. "give me your tired, your poor"...that did not apply to people unwilling to observe the law. many of our grandparents came through ellis island. it was a day of great pride when they were sworn as citizens. we are a nation founded by immigrants,since the mayflower landed. but i really don't equate our history with the current debacle.
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valerie
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Post by valerie »

This is what I think:



I wrote a letter to the editor this last week... dh and

I out shopping came across a very large protest... of

local high school students... waving the Mexican flags

and trouping up and down the main drag... during school

hours... and a fine member of local law enforcement drives

by without so much as a GLANCE in their direction. I'm all

for peaceful protest but I'm sorry... we're paying for

your schooling, stay there and learn something and do

your protesting on your own time. School gets out plenty

early enough for you to protest in the afternoons!

California has legislation on the books giving illegal

aliens the lower resident tuition rate. HELLO what part

of "illegal" don't people understand?

One last thing... there's been quite a lot of talk among

the Hispanic population that California is their

HOMELAND... I'd sure as heck like to know what the Native

American population thinks of THAT. Early California

Spanish missions pretty much enslaved a lot of the locals!

I know I said one last but I have a quickie addendum: I

wouldn't expect to move to another country (France, say)

and have everything printed up in English, free health care

and english voter's ballots and drive without a license or

insurance!! Just read an article today about impounded cars,

they are often sold back to other illegals. You don't have to

show proof of anything to buy them.



It's not working the way it is, so something's gotta change.

I don't have the answer. But a wall seems too expensive.

And letting the illegals here get off isn't it either. We've done

that before. One last time amnesty doesn't work when you

keep doing it. (Okay, this time we really REALLY mean it!)



GRRRRR.



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valerie
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Post by valerie »

I'm not in the minority by informal poll.



I know American settlers slaughtered the Indians. Might doesn't make

right. But the fact remains, anything any of us except for the Native

Americans we took.



I learned the Spanish language and worked right next to Braseros as

a young girl growing up on 120 acres of almond orchard. I got my

Sociedad Honoraria Hispanica in high scool in 1968. So many semesters

of grade B or better. I'm not totally against hispanic people being here.

I just think there is something wrong with the system the way it is.

And I admit I don't know how to fix it, but I guess I just hate the very

idea of anyone doing illegal things. Guest worker program again? Maybe.

But I know plenty of people working two jobs and busting their butts

who don't have what these people have handed to them. I don't see

how I could ever come around to saying it's right. When that's not the

way I feel!
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LilacDragon
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Post by LilacDragon »

was just reading an AP article online and I am struck by some of the quotes made by demonstrators. One woman, who has been living here illegally since 1992 says "I love this country. It gives us everything."

And yet, I have been a citizen for 42 years and I can promise you I get NOTHING for free. My parents were born in this country, as were their parents. We all pay our taxes. When times have been tough and I have tried to get help in one form or another, I have either been told I don't make enough money or I make too much. When my family didn't have health insurance, we were expected to pay our doctor bills in full and I certainly don't remember getting any breaks on the cost of anything.

I DO not have a problem with people coming to the States legally. But I do have a problem with people coming here illegally and expecting the citizens and the government to bend over backwards to accomodate them.
Sandi



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LilacDragon
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Post by LilacDragon »

[QUOTE][Our system is broken. The people who run this country have absolutely nothing in common with its people.

/QUOTE]

I really think that there should be some very basic changes made in the "perks" that our legislators get.

I think that they should be paid based on the economics of their district. If the average yearly income of their constituents is $40,000, then that is how much they should make for a year of service. They should pay the same thing for health care that is paid by their constituents. You see where I am going?

Being part of the legislature should be about doing what is best for the people who voted for you - not about being rich and powerful.
Sandi



weeder
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Post by weeder »

There are places in the bouroughs of Manhattan. Queens, Bronx, Brooklyn,Staten Island.. where the population of Asian immigrants is so high, that all of the shop signs are written in Chineese. Mexicans here in Virginia are working all of the jobs that Americas lazy youth will not take. I understand that the people who come want better opportunity. The problem always goes back to the government. And the fact that... Im sorry, but we here in the US never take care of our own. Why are we always so willing to sell real estate to foreigners? Or to arrange for small business loans for foreigners? As a single, self employed female.. I have never been able to qualify for a home mortgage. I was not able to afford college for my sons. My older son went.. but he is 40,000.00$ in debt with school loans.Health insurance? I went for 15 years without any. Two years ago I finally bought it through my business. Last summer, I incurred medical expense and even with the coverage I owe 5,000.00. I have always been interested in working in Europe. I recently looked up the work and visa requirements. #1 European employer must prove that the opened position could not be filled by a resident of that country. #2

If the applicant from outside the country has filed bankrupsy or is in the process of doing so... forget it, dont come. Life here is a free for all. Lots of talk,talk,talk,

but none of the major issues get resolved. I would not want to see anyone go hungry. Or be denied access to a place where they could be safe. But we are so willing to provide everything for free to those who do come, that we are hurting our own health and educational budgets. And Id like to know... Ive always wanted to know... why are the numbers of Irish allowed to immigrate here so low?? My Irish friends were hard working people.. never expected anything for free. And they were always living in fear of being deported. I see Mexican immigrants yelling and screaming on the news... announcing that they are here illegally, demanding health care, and an education, and we struggle with coming up with ways to provide it. I dont understand it, I never will. I just know that we the people really do not have anything to do with the decisions that are made. My final feelings are that a big bulk of the population here is getting despondent.

The boat is getting over loaded. And we are standing on the brink of mayhem.
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

With respect, my favorite stalkee, your post didn't address criminal aliens at all.



Employers want to save a buck, so they hire criminal aliens at a fraction of what they would have to pay if they hired law-abiding people. They save on the wage, and they don't have to pay payroll taxes.



Now the stereotype is that the only way to get the work done is to hire criminal aliens. Unemployed people think they can't find work because the criminals are stealing all the jobs. Who's right?



If there were a god of criminals who came down swept them all away, we'd suffer temporarily but survive - even thrive.



Nothing will happen. The politicians will pander and talk, maybe make a new law or two. So what? We already have the laws we need; we're just not enforcing them.



If we had a national ID card, we could find criminal aliens quite easily and deport them under the laws we already have. We could do it without the ID cards, but the one or two legal aliens that would have to prove themselves would cry racial profiling.



If we need more immigrants to work the farms and build the houses, let's increase whatever quotas we need to. We don't need to aid and abet criminals.
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Post by pantsonfire321@aol.com »

The UK has thousand's of immigrants coming in every year, the offical number quoted does not include the one's who come here via trafficing and illegal mean's,What bother's me is the fact they have broken the law to get here in the first place,Only to be given free local authority houseing free schooling and access to the NHS and benefit's money straight in their hand ... they need do nothing other than settle and the goverment will bend over backwards to accommodate them and there is not one dam thing we can say or do for fear of being branded a racist . If i want to go live in Cyprus i have to buy my own home and have enough money in the bank to see me though the rest of my life ,yet you can smuggle yourself into the UK claim asylem and have free representation instantly and even if you do get deported we will pay for you to appeal 2/3/4 time's . Why should somebody just be allowed to rock up and be GIVEN a home rent free when i myself cannot even get a council house.... and they wonder why there is resentment . My other half is a builder and at the moment 75% of men on site are immigrant's working cash in hand i even know of a pick up point where these guy's stand at the side of the road to be picked up every morning to be taken to and from work. I don't mind the fact that there has to be a system i just expect it to be a fare one .
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Peg
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Post by Peg »

They want freedom and rights? Let them go to Iraq and fight for freedom, rights, and safety and then we'll talk.

These are ILLEGAL immigrants. Therefore, they do not follow the rules. They do not care about laws. Do we need more here?
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Post by weeder »

Accountable wrote: With respect, my favorite stalkee, your post didn't address criminal aliens at all.



Employers want to save a buck, so they hire criminal aliens at a fraction of what they would have to pay if they hired law-abiding people. They save on the wage, and they don't have to pay payroll taxes.



Now the stereotype is that the only way to get the work done is to hire criminal aliens. Unemployed people think they can't find work because the criminals are stealing all the jobs. Who's right?



If there were a god of criminals who came down swept them all away, we'd suffer temporarily but survive - even thrive.



Nothing will happen. The politicians will pander and talk, maybe make a new law or two. So what? We already have the laws we need; we're just not enforcing them.



If we had a national ID card, we could find criminal aliens quite easily and deport them under the laws we already have. We could do it without the ID cards, but the one or two legal aliens that would have to prove themselves would cry racial profiling.



If we need more immigrants to work the farms and build the houses, let's increase whatever quotas we need to. We don't need to aid and abet criminals.
Your right, my love. Sorry I get so detoured when I respond to a thread beyond my intellectual ability. Ok, as a former employer... I lived in fear of hiring someone " off the books" never mind illegal. If they were hurt on the job, or I got caught ( which wowaysme... I would have ) I would have been in deep do do.

These illegal immigrants happen to be great workers... thats one big reason that business owners here ARE willing to go along with this. And yes... they arent paying payroll taxes. Which by the way is another big reason ( on a list of many) that I failed at my business venture down in Georgia. But that brings us back to our government again. They make it so difficult for businesses and entreprenurs to make it here that people will actually break the law to survive. Was that good?
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weeder
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Post by weeder »

OK....... come on....
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valerie
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Post by valerie »

Peg wrote: They want freedom and rights? Let them go to Iraq and fight for freedom, rights, and safety and then we'll talk.



I thought about this when reading Lilac's posts. What does it say to all

our young men and women fighting for us to have illegals protesting here?

Just as a wild guess I would say we don't have ANY illegals in our

military! Hmmm...



On our local news last night there was a bit on a beautiful new hiring

hall, built at great expense in a town just north of here. DH commented

on all the men in the front row hiding their faces. I hadn't even realized

so we went back and yup, he was right. Hands to foreheads, faces

tucked down in shirt collars, whatever. They didn't have green cards.



So do we go after the employers? A lot of these people work in the wine

grape business in this county, a business that apparently takes in

large sums of money every year. The wineries might have to take a

little cut in profits (what am I saying no they wouldn't price of wine

would go up!! :-5 ) but if they paid more maybe some of the unemployed

around here WOULD do that work.



Yo, employers, here's how to ask for a green card: "Donde esta su

tarjeta verde?" (Where is your green card?) or: "Damelo su tarjeta

verde" (Give me your green card) Want more? :-5



Our Home Depot here in town now has announcements in Spanish.



*I* am starting to feel like a minority...



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LilacDragon
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Post by LilacDragon »

That is a GREAT idea!! Maybe we could require that illegals that wanted to become citizens could serve in the military and expedite their citizenship. Of course, it sure would help if they would learn to SPEAK ENGLISH!!!!!!
Sandi



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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

weeder wrote: Your right, my love. Sorry I get so detoured when I respond to a thread beyond my intellectual ability. Ok, as a former employer... I lived in fear of hiring someone " off the books" never mind illegal. If they were hurt on the job, or I got caught ( which wowaysme... I would have ) I would have been in deep do do.

These illegal immigrants happen to be great workers... thats one big reason that business owners here ARE willing to go along with this. And yes... they arent paying payroll taxes. Which by the way is another big reason ( on a list of many) that I failed at my business venture down in Georgia. But that brings us back to our government again. They make it so difficult for businesses and entreprenurs to make it here that people will actually break the law to survive. Was that good?

You're always excellent. Few criminal aliens are lazy; I would think it's physically quite difficult to cross our borders. I would also think the farther away from the border, the less lazy the criminals would be, simply because the lazy ones can get the freebies without traveling so far. The fact remains that they are criminals.



I would fully support far more liberal immigration rules, but every immigrant must be checked. It's a sad requirement in our post-9/11 environment. We need a fence to deter the criminals. The criminals that are here should get no benefit from their crime - none. We need better cooperation between the national & local authorities to flag the criminals when we find them, and send them back.
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Bez
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Post by Bez »

The details in these posts you have all made are spookily close to the situation in the UK. At work we have people from many nations and we have to scrutinise their paperwork or else we are in deep trouble if they are here illegally. One or 2 have had to go back to their own countries because their visa renewals were turned down.... these were Brazillian and Thai.

We have the same problem with the benefit situation which causes resentment.
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Post by spot »

lady cop wrote: Hundreds of thousands of protesters demanded Monday that illegal immigrants get a chance to live the American dream
Today's New York Times Quote of the Day highlights the nature of that "American dream" whether or not you're an illegal immigrant:

"I have no problem with the demonstration, but this is a business. Couldn't they have protested in the morning before work? Couldn't they have protested in their hearts?" - Charley Bohley, a restaurant owner who fired 10 workers after they attended an immigration rally.
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Accountable
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Post by Accountable »

Lots of criminals have no chance to live the American Dream. People forget that rights and freedom have an annoying little tag-along ... it's called responsibility.
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Post by spot »

Accountable wrote: Lots of criminals have no chance to live the American Dream. People forget that rights and freedom have an annoying little tag-along ... it's called responsibility.
Assuming this to be a logical construct, am I to infer that criminals have no rights or freedoms? I note that criminality is defined by the State, not by the action.
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Post by Accountable »

spot wrote: Assuming this to be a logical construct, am I to infer that criminals have no rights or freedoms? I note that criminality is defined by the State, not by the action.
Criminal aliens are not "allowed" to live the American Dream because they are trying to steal it. If they climb back out the window and come round to the front door like civilised folk, they're welcomed with (relatively) open arms.
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Post by spot »

Accountable wrote: If they climb back out the window and come round to the front door like civilised folk, they're welcomed with (relatively) open arms.
Balderdash. A small pre-selected subset have the door opened to them, with a lottery added to give rather minimal hope to the hopeless in the way that lotteries by their nature do. This isn't the way the Italians, the Irish, the Ukrainians or the Poles for example made their entrance. What we have now is we got here first, we're full, we already won, your aspirations mean nothing to us unless you're young, skilled and educated.
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Post by Accountable »

I already said I support loosening the rules to let more in. The Italians, the Irish, the Ukrainians and the Poles came in legally, via Ellis Island.



We have plenty of room and plenty of jobs. That's not the issue. Security is.
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Post by spot »

Accountable wrote: I already said I support loosening the rules to let more in. The Italians, the Irish, the Ukrainians and the Poles came in legally, via Ellis Island.
You appear not to notice that the rules have changed between then and now, and it has nothing to do with security and everything to do with affluence. What was legal once - to immigrate to the US with no skills or education - is now criminalized, not by the immigrants but by the inhabitants. The people haven't changed, the law has been changed to redefine criminality. To call these people criminals and thereby remove their rights and freedom is part and parcel with criminalizing the existing resident underclass of the USA. The political and media message is fear and despise the have-nots. America has changed a lot since the thirties.
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Post by Accountable »

I noticed, and I addressed it. When I say I support loosening the immigration rules, I mean let them in. Hell, let them all in! Just bring them through a facility that records their names, prints, etc. so we can know who is coming in.

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