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Post by spot »

Look, FG even has a forum for it.

My grandmother had Type 2, my dad had Type 2, I was scarcely going to avoid it for ever. I've had annual blood tests to watch for it and the blood sugar count this month showed it has arrived.

What annoys me about doctors is the appalling nutritional advice they've given over the last however many years. Don't eat saturated fats they shouted. Fill up on potatoes. They should be pilloried. This year, the authorities say, stick to lots of fats including saturated ones and cut your carbohydrates as hard as you can manage. They've also reversed what they say about crash diets, from don't to this year's "cut your calories to 800 a day". Finally doctors are giving evidence-based advice. Not before time.

My BMI is only just under 30 so I can afford to lose up to a third of me and still not hit the underweight label. Bringing that blood sugar test (currently saying HbA1c = 76 mmol/L) back to normality (under 45) involves low carbohydrates. I'm looking at two birds with one stone here.

I've started using cronometer.com as a food diary and it's impressed me a lot.

We shall see what happens.
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Post by Clodhopper »

Dear old thing,

Nothing changes the fact you are a fantastic person.

edit: and if there isn't something I disagree with you about I'll do my best to find it.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

The very best of luck with it, your father managed to contain his with diet alone so, hopefully, so can you :-)
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Post by spot »

I seem to remember him sticking pins in his fingers too. I shall defer self-administered Blood Glucose tests for now.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

spot;1517415 wrote: I seem to remember him sticking pins in his fingers too. I shall defer self-administered Blood Glucose tests for now.


Why? You are hyperglycemic. You should test, not guess. It doesn't hurt.

eta--I converted your mmol to 9.1 HbA1c. Is this correct or did I make a mistake? If it is 9.1 that's really bad.

http://www.diabeteschart.org/mtop.html
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Post by spot »

Your conversion is correct, yes.

I was hyperglycemic until they told me. Now I'm not.

There's urine test strips. They're doing three things at the moment. They're telling me I'm no longer excreting glucose which I had been, so my blood sugar is corrected; that I now have ketones instead which means I'm burning body fat; and that I ought to increase my water intake because that's currently only about a litre a day. I know why I have a water issue, it's because the only liquid I drink at the moment is black filter coffee and two litres a day would be unfortunate. I might just add a few glasses of iced water and see if that mends matters.

I can't measure HbA1c myself at home, but just to find out how to use the stabbing kit I bought I'll give it a go this week and see what my blood glucose actually is. I may faint while doing it. I may also have "It doesn't hurt" carved on my gravestone.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Ketones in your urine can become very dangerous:

"Ketonuria is a medical condition in which ketone bodies are present in the urine. It is seen in conditions in which the body produces excess ketones as an indication that it is using an alternative source of energy. It is seen during starvation or more commonly in type I diabetes mellitus."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketonuria

Are you on any diabetic medications? Hba1c is an average of your daily blood sugars over an approximate period of 3 months so there is no point in not having your doctor do it over that time span; it's really not necessary for you to buy that test equipment. For daily, for new diabetics, take your blood sugar before a meal then again 2 hours later to see what your food did to you, if your blood sugar spiked.

In drawing your own blood for a test what is your problem? The sight of your own blood? Are you very susceptible to the slightest, smallest "ow-wie?" I don't even feel it, for goodness sake, spot. Test, don't guess!

eta--9.1 is, I repeat, real bad; maybe you should see an endocrinologist if you haven't already.

Another point--just because glucose is not being excreted in your urine DOES NOT MEAN that your blood sugars are normal.
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Post by spot »

AnneBoleyn;1517425 wrote: Are you very susceptible to the slightest, smallest "ow-wie?" I couldn't have put it better myself. That's exactly it. I have a sensitive nature. I'm not medicated.

The ketonuria bit is relevant to the type I people who aren't making insulin, because that way lies coma and death. For type II diabetics it's no different to the healthy population, it means your intake of carbohydrates is so low that your body is consuming itself. It's a desirable state for insane bodybuilders and people on crash diets. I have fifty pounds to get rid of by summer, keeping at a steady daily mid-range ketone level is how to check my diet is working, with a weekly scale weighing for confirmation.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Please give updates on how you are doing. I'm interested.

Everyone on my maternal side has been diagnosed as type 1, 1.5, 2 and brittle. I'm insulin dependent.

It's a subject I know a bit about, though you'd never think so reading my own Hba1c's. Most inconvenient disorder, I'm quite annoyed by it. Good luck.
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Post by spot »

That's kind of you, and I shall.

The only way I know of discovering whether I actually have an insulin problem - either resistance or deficiency - is an oral glucose test, and I've not had one of those. I might ask for one in a few months when I'm more stable.

My theory is that I got that high reading because I was lazily eating nothing but sandwiches for the last few months, practically everything was carbohydrate except the cheese and butter. Which makes it entirely my own fault, I know that.
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Post by LarsMac »

Definitely need to increase water intake. I have been averaging 2 L per day.

Does you doc have you on any diabetes meds?

Metformin, perhaps?

The urine testing helps, but unfortunately to get an accurate instantaneous Blood sugar, you will need to use that pricker.

I hate the thing, but I also have the need to know what is going on. There are some that you can use on other areas beside finger tips which are a bit more comfortable.

As for finger sticking, become ambidextrous and prick a different finger and different hand each time. It gets easier. Use those alcohol wipes, too. The stuff you pick up during the day on you skin and even sweat can affect your readings by 20 points or more.

First thing in the morning will tell you how your overall system is doing. Amazingly, even 30 minutes in the morning can make a big difference, because when you wake, your system starts cranking out glucose to get you going. I can have 68 to 98 right after waking, and 30 minutes later it is up to 130-140.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

You're either diabetic or you are not, and you are. Doesn't matter anymore how you think you got there; besides, you are probably wrong. It's not easy to arrive at 9.1; a few months isn't long enough. What matters now is where you go from here. You can control it, but once you are diabetic it's chronic.
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Post by spot »

I mistrust doctors who medicate, my lurking suspicion is that doctors do it to increase your subsequent reliance on them. I'm not taking any medication but I am self-dosing on vitamins and minerals.

There's also a doctor-led suggestion in the UK that overweight people showing type II diabetes, who are then dieting on low carbohydrates and losing all the symptoms, are seen in sufficient numbers that it could at least be described as in remission. In other words the diabetes symptoms are a by-product of stuffing on bread and pizza and it's reversible. I agree that compromised insulin production is irreversible but that's a different thing.

I'll post figures when I see them.

Today's consumption is on the graphic.

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Post by LarsMac »

spot;1517434 wrote: I mistrust doctors who medicate, my lurking suspicion is that doctors do it to increase your subsequent reliance on them. I'm not taking any medication but I am self-dosing on vitamins and minerals.

There's also a doctor-led suggestion in the UK that overweight people showing type II diabetes, who are then dieting on low carbohydrates and losing all the symptoms, are seen in sufficient numbers that it could at least be described as in remission. In other words the diabetes symptoms are a by-product of stuffing on bread and pizza and it's reversible. I agree that compromised insulin production is irreversible but that's a different thing.

I'll post figures when I see them.

Today's consumption is on the graphic.


That is pretty much true.

I am fortunate now to be in the care of a doctor who came over from the Ukraine in the 80s and became certified in the US. Her belief is exactly as you said, Diet and exercise are the best preventatives for Type II. However, getting the condition under control may take some medication at first. I am now just on Metformin, and doing fairly well.

I had a couple of docs early on who were proponents of drug therapy and I experimented with a number of different drug combinations. I am now to the point where I am in better shape than I have been for decades. In 1996 I was 300 lb, with high glucose, high blood pressure, and high cholesterol.

Now, I am around 240, and my A1c is around 5.8, cholesterol is no longer a problem and BP is around 135/60

Even the damage of indulging in holiday munchies never took my BG over 180.

So the drugs helped to get me going in the right direction, but now I am getting along with diet and exercise and Metformin, and we may experiment with tossing the Metformin this spring.
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Post by Wandrin »

My doctor was a little concerned and had me do the prickie thingie for a day, every couple of hours, to look for patterns. What we found was that my glucose level was highest right after I wake up in the morning, then decreases and stabilizes for the rest of the day. She made one change to a prescription I was taking for something else, swapping the morning and night time pills, and that helped a bit. She emailed me links to several articles about diet and exercise. She has had me repeat the one day prickie thingie profile routine every six months or so, to look for changes. My A1c is still within limits, but it is something I have to watch.
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Post by spot »

Why the medical profession hasn't got a $10 one-gram subcutaneous bluetooth implant to monitor a hundred blood variables and download the history on command I've no idea. Maybe the Chinese will dedicate a fabrication plant to it. If they can do as much for smartphone processors they should do it for a diagnostic kit too. The market size is in billions. It would solve their mass surveillance problem at a stroke as well.
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Post by spot »

Right, I had a go with this stabby thing to check I'd set the meter up properly.

First I waited an hour after my first meal of the day (1pm pork-and-cucumber salad with added celery 160cal, 3g net carbs). Then I fitted a strip into the meter and the meter powered up.

I set the jabber to maximum jab, pressed against a finger I don't use much and fired. It was like an air rifle going off. I heard an echo from the far side of the room. My finger shrieked with pain.

I could see no blood despite expecting it to be dripping rapidly down my wrist. I squeezed and a drop appeared. I let the meter suck it up and it said 6.7 mmol/L.

I can't see me ever doing that again, I'd rather fight wolves. It's the worst shock I've had since my Geiger Counter radiation klaxon went off at four in the morning for no good reason.
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Post by Saint_ »

A good friend of mine had diabetes and didn't really do what he needed to to take care of it. (I understand that you are far to smart to neglect those things.) We found him in the backyard one day, dead. Apparently he had begun drinking again and had fallen into a diabetic coma and froze to death. Diabetes is a vicious disease so my best wishes and sympathies for you. This forum would be pale indeed without you intellect, no matter how ofter misguided I happen to think you are.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Set the pen to the lowest, or next to lowest, setting spot. What setting is it on now?
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

While 6.7 is good For a Diabetic a normal person would have had a 5. First meal at 1 pm for diabetic a mistake unless you woke up at 11 am. Diabetics should eat something 2 hours after wake up.
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Post by spot »

My eyes are not what they were but the spring-loaded bolt is definitely saying 5. I could kill rats at twenty paces with this.

I am, according to my notes, aiming for 4 to 5.5 fasting. I assumed 6.7 would pass for adequate given I'd eaten an hour before testing.

I was up at seven. Breakfast consists of a pint of black coffee and a radio news bulletin. Why should diabetics eat something 2 hours after wake up - how does it help?
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Post by Wandrin »

AnneBoleyn;1517476 wrote: Set the pen to the lowest, or next to lowest, setting spot. What setting is it on now?


I agree. I mainly feel the "thump" of the mechanism, rather than the prickie. When I look closely I see a small red dot. I squeeze my finger a bit and a drop big enough to test forms. It is almost painless.
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Post by spot »

I now have a second reading, this time of 6.5 mmol/L, taken two hours after waking, after a black coffee and a 20 minute brisk walk but no food.

What I now need, to get the level into a stable lower range, is time on this diet. The idea is that "[by] reducing the fat in your liver/pancreas you can increase insulin sensitivity again", so all I can hope for over the next couple of months is to see the fasting figure drift down toward 4 mmol/L. We'll just have to wait and see.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

spot;1517490 wrote: I now have a second reading, this time of 6.5 mmol/L, taken two hours after waking, after a black coffee and a 20 minute brisk walk but no food.




That's a good number, but you're cheating by waiting 2 hours and taking the walk. A true reading is taking it first thing upon waking.
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Post by spot »

If you ever saw James Whale's version of Frankenstein, with Boris Karloff rising from the slab, you'll have an idea of me first thing upon waking.







After the coffee and the walk it's a different matter, it's like Nijinsky on stage or Valentino on a horse.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Nope. That doesn't matter. If you want a true reading of your glucose in the am you'll do as I say. You can have the coffee first since you take it black, no sugar. Otherwise, you're merely assuaging your anxieties.
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Post by spot »

I don't do anxious. I do curious and I do annoyed. This diabetes thing has triggered both of those.

I'm grateful for your tutoring, I'll have a shot at a first-thing test tomorrow. Part of the problem is getting the boy to school at the same time.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Assuaging your annoyance then. Yes, that is diabetes. After trying to manage it for many years a good amount of patients describe themselves as being depressed over the condition. It's really tough, or can be.

Now, please, assuage my curious(ity). What boy do you send off to school?
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Post by spot »

http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/membe ... 3345a.html

The only one of my children still at home, the others have careers and stuff. Jowan is a work in progress.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

I remember you speaking of your grandchildren, especially the little girl who paints but I had no idea you also had a young child of your own. Spot, you are a lucky man. He is adorable.
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Post by spot »

I went and asked him whether he's adorable, the answer apparently is "Never!".
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

spot;1517503 wrote: I went and asked him whether he's adorable, the answer apparently is "Never!".


It's not up to him!
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Post by spot »

AnneBoleyn;1517491 wrote: That's a good number, but you're cheating by waiting 2 hours and taking the walk. A true reading is taking it first thing upon waking.


Here we are - within ten minutes of the wake-up alarm going off. 5.9 mmol/L, or 106 mg/dL in American.

I observe in passing that, at least in the UK, all three of my readings "conform with normal blood sugar levels for the majority of healthy individuals" as opposed to the pre-diabetic or diabetic ranges. That doesn't indicate complacency on my part but it's not as bad as it might have been. Admittedly I'd prefer to see the fasting say 4.x rather than 5.x.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Proud of you. If you allowed for emoji I'd send you the kissy one. Good for you!
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Post by minks »

Spot

Amp up your exercise and reduce your sugar/carbs intake.

You can certainly "manage" Diabetes.

A couple years ago my husband was diagnosed with type 2, and they put him on to Metformin (spelling may be wrong). He started to exercise more, and he cut out a whole lot of sugars and carbs and was taken off the Metformin after about 9 months of good sugar readings. Never had to prick his fingers.

Good luck with how you choose to control it.
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Post by spot »

Just at the moment I'd rate carbohydrates on the same scale as cigarettes. Thank you for your concern minksy, I'll keep the thread up to date.
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Post by LarsMac »

spot;1517574 wrote: Just at the moment I'd rate carbohydrates on the same scale as cigarettes. Thank you for your concern minksy, I'll keep the thread up to date.


That is not entirely valid.

You will need carbs. You just need to consume them wisely, and forgo all the "cheap Carbs" that have little or no real nutrition.
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Post by Ahso! »

There are two kinds of carbohydrates; simple and complex. Every fruit and vegetable is a carbohydrate, it's just a matter of which kind. The rule of thumb is that if it tastes good, it's simple.

Simple carbohydrates like sweet fruits or tasty veggies or processed foods like bread, rice or what have you digest and metabolize quickly and provide spurts of energy through the quick release of insulin into the blood. Caffeine also qualifies as a simple carbohydrate because it stresses the system which also results in an insulin release. These carbohydrates create appetite cravings for us and drive us to eat more in order to fatten up and store energy in case of famine. As we age we metabolize slower and expend the energy more slowly which results in weight gain and hypoglycemia.

Complex carbohydrates metabolize more slowly and provide that full-feeling and slow the insulin release to allow us to burn fat and reduce the stress on our bodies resulting in weight loss with less effort.

The key is protein intake, but not just any protein. Though people say soy can do the trick, unfortunately, animal protein appears to work best. This is a result of our evolutionary history of eating meats.

If memory serves me the Hellers are vegetarians.

Protein puts the insulin in check and allows the body to regulate its release more suitable to our environment today. Our bodies are not aware of how plentiful food sources are today.

This website and the books these two people have written have been the best sources that I've found that provide a practical and workable solution to controlling the onset of type 2 diabetes.

The long-term key to success is the training of the mind to overcome the evolutionary processes of the body. That's difficult and why so many fall off the wagon so often.
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Post by LarsMac »

another item you might find useful

Glycemic index and glycemic load for 100 foods

The gycemic index gives an idea of how quickly your system will metabolize specific carbohydrate food items and produce Glucose.
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Post by spot »

minks;1517571 wrote: Spot

Amp up your exercise and reduce your sugar/carbs intake.


I knew that word would crop up eventually. The only exercise I'm getting at the moment is walking. I'll consider going to a gym next month though.





Ahso!;1517576 wrote: Complex carbohydrates metabolize more slowly and provide that full-feeling and slow the insulin release to allow us to burn fat and reduce the stress on our bodies resulting in weight loss with less effort.It took a week of juggling to find what was adding sugar carbohydrate, as opposed to fiber carbohydrate, in what I was eating. Getting rid of obvious candidates was easy enough. Then I dropped milk, which was adding half of what was left. Then tomatoes which was adding half of what was left. Now I'm keeping sugars between 20g and 30g a day which seems stable enough. Including the experimental start, my average is 35g a day which has kept me expressing ketones continuously.





LarsMac;1517577 wrote: another item you might find useful

Glycemic index and glycemic load for 100 foods
That's exactly what I've been missing, well done. I knew the words but I hadn't found a list, and I needed it.



This morning's blood glucose reading within ten minutes of the wake-up alarm going off is a new low (5.8 mmol/L) and my weekly weight says I'm down 8lb since starting two weeks back. The weighing bit is to make sure my food record is complete.
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Post by LarsMac »

I was having trouble finding this again, but, here is a fairly comprehensive list of foods with their GI

GI Database
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Post by spot »

Thank you, I've downloaded it. I'll report back on what I find interesting in there.
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Post by spot »

Italian Salame, I've always enjoyed that and it's no carbohydrates at all. I'll order one today. Napoli or Genoese. And there's the Spanish chorizo too.

And I appear to have invented green bean soup just now. Chilli sauce, Worcester sauce, salt, 50g Cheddar and 275g frozen green beans. Boil the beans for ten minutes, liquidize all ingredients in enough of the water, consume. 280 calories, 11g net carbohydrates.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

You are reacting to having diabetes so well. I'm sure you will be successful in managing this condition.
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Post by Ahso! »

Beware of the chemicals in lunchmeats.
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Post by LarsMac »

I don't think that I've ever heard of Genoa Salami referred to as "Lunchmeat" before.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

LarsMac;1517610 wrote: I don't think that I've ever heard of Genoa Salami referred to as "Lunchmeat" before.


Maybe not, but it is. I prefer kosher salami, esp. Hebrew National.
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Post by LarsMac »

AnneBoleyn;1517615 wrote: Maybe not, but it is. I prefer kosher salami, esp. Hebrew National.


My concept of lunchmeat is probably limited.

Bologna, Spam, olive loaf, That cheap pastrami you can buy at the 7-11,... That sort of stuff.

"Kosher" and "lunchmeat" have seldom, if ever occurred in the same sentence in my universe.
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spot
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Diabetes

Post by spot »

The salami I'm talking about are artisan farm produce imported from Italy, made from locally farmed pork, salt, pepper, herbs, spices and wine. I'm unacquainted with the term "lunchmeat" but I doubt it bears much resemblance.
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Diabetes

Post by Ahso! »

A Lamborgini is a car.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

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